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12:24 AM
Good day! I'm searching on how to enable auto-completion for command in Rebol 3 with Windows 7. It works with Rebol 2.
I did tried to search it on the web, but couldn't find any. I search the chat room here neither did I.
 
@YuShen Heya! Welcome back. The console in Rebol 3 is notoriously unfinished. Obviously from a programming API level, standard I/O (stdin, stdout) is like a teletype and features like cursor positioning are not available unless you link to something more platform specific.
 
@YuShen I'm not sure what you mean by "auto-completion for command". Are you talking about in the console?
@HostileFork Carl is supposed to be releasing the Rebol 2 console code sometime soon.
 
@Respectech Yes, console.
 
@YuShen There exists the Curses library but Rebol is as lean and mean as it is because it has been very careful about picking up dependencies on libraries like that. So getting console functionality has to be done judiciously. If you make a bad library choice, Rebol's size could double... triple... fast!
We definitely do want to see this addressed, and soon.
 
Thanks for your help.
 
12:31 AM
@YuShen Because of Rebol's new "host kit" design, a different console which was tailored to Windows can be written for the windows build using the Windows Console API... and for any particular build the host could be very specific, so no binary is any bigger than it needs to be. It's a harder road than using an abstraction layer, but Rebol does not like to compromise on this.
 
@ZawLin Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 343 so chat away!
 
Hello @ZawLin ... Rebol user, or browsing visitor?
 
oh just browsing, first time being @chat so just getting used to interface
and also finding an easily embeddable script for c++
 
@ZawLin Ah, quick tips. You can edit your posts for two minutes, to edit the last push the up arrow key. To edit another, hover and you'll get a drop down menu on the left with a downward pointing triangle.
 
is rebol interpreter statically embeddedable?
 
12:35 AM
I have another problem that I wish Rebol could help to solve: Is it possible to hook up a Rebol script to process some emails. The environment is on Windows 7, my email is Outlook Exchange 2007.
My purpose is to automate some report generation through email interface.
 
@ZawLin Rebol and Red are great but I wouldn't call embedding them particularly easy just yet (it will be). From what I've seen QtScript is fairly serviceable for one's average needs, and fits into a framework I think is well designed overall.
@YuShen @GrahamChiu has done a bit with things like connecting to Gmail, I believe. I don't offhand know about an Exchange Server interface.
 
1:21 AM
htanata, San Francisco Bay Area
7.2k 2 22 36
@htanata Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 7194 so chat away!
 
@RebolBot
print [{Being a human isn't always such a {simple fact}, in my opinion,} reverse {atanath@}]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print [{Being a human isn't always such a {simple fact}, in my opinion,} reverse "atanath@"]
Being a human isn't always such a {simple fact}, in my opinion, @htanata
 
@htanata Welcome. I see you are StackOverflow-experienced. But as Jimi Hendrix would say: "Are you Rebol experienced?" (all right, I put the Rebol in there myself).
room topic changed to [Rebol and Red]: Jimi Hendrix would have used Rebol rebolsource.net/go/chat-faq [dialect] [interpreter] [json] [lisp] [rebol] [red]
@syntax Welcome to StackOverflow. Check the Markdown FAQ, multiline code formatting is done with spacing (four spaces) not backticks. I'm reading your questions, fixing them, and as you seem like not spam upvoting appropriately so you can chat... just making sure. :-)
@earl @DocKimbel Carl likes tabs and is swayed by supporting arguments, even @onetom's argument, which I don't really believe matters myself. I don't care. I just want a standard. Spaces seems better these days with the web, but I just want a pre-commit script enforcing a standard. Is there any chance we can agree on this between Rebol and Red?
 
1:51 AM
So the console thing keeps coming up. I don't do a whole lot of console programming, I'd rather write a file and use a decent editor, and most of the console stuff I do is with @RebolBot
But it is clearly a big issue. As is HTTPS. Encap not so much, and people haven't exactly been clamoring for full stack source to the Android build. I could put that together pretty quickly if I felt like it. Should I? Because I do C/C++ my only Android stuff so far have been built from the "Hello World" of NDK because I don't see the point of writing mobile apps without access to the hardware and doing something that any moron with an Eclipse and Java install can't do.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:54 AM
Meh, 'tis late, I suppose.
New noisy neighbours upstairs again :(
 
What time there?
 
Only 11pm, but have a game tomorrow morning.
 
Do you have noise laws?
 
Meh, I'll let them be for a while longer—just irrationally pissed off as they're right above my nice quiet room...
...otherwise quiet...
 
You're in Philadelphia aren't you?
 
3:08 AM
Yep.
 
My wife and I went there late 2011.
 
No way—I was here then!
 
November. Cooooold.
For us.
 
For me too—I'd moved up from Alabama that summer :)
 
@HostileFork I spend a lot of time playing with Rebol in console. I HATE rebol 3's console even more than rebol 2's
 
3:11 AM
We initially stayed at penn square, but it wasn't that nice, though the christmas fair thing was cool. Then moved down to the water side.
 
it has too many text bugs where random text starts appearing for no apparent reason...
which makes it harder to lock down to give a bug report about it
 
@Brett I'm over just beyond UPenn myself, center city's only a 10min bike ride away though...
 
@rgchris Only there for a short time, my wife had a meeting near the uni. Enjoyed Shanes Confectionary and Franklin Fountain - both owned by brothers I think.
@rgchris I had a stroll through the uni grounds.
Great history in that city.
 
Indeed.
 
Still got my little packet of shredded money from my visit to the Fed :-)
 
3:18 AM
That's across the street from where I went to get my license...
That whole area is fun to walk around as well...
Independence Hall, etc.
 
Yes, saw the bell and toured Independence hall. Was great.
The other thing I recalled though was a bit of tension from people on the street. Lot's of beggars in the city. Funny place. Couldn't quite understand the tension.
 
@rgchris How far is Philadelphia from Shiremanstown?
always wanted to go, looks like 2 hours...
 
Looks like it—closer to Harrisburg...
 
I don't remember when we lived in Allenstown, PA
too young
 
Founded by the Amish side of the family?
 
3:25 AM
haha, perhaps...
 
Probably going to hit Gettysburg within the month, will maybe take a detour...
 
@kealist Enjoyed the day when eFishAnt came out to Oz years ago. He's pretty good with his magic tricks.
 
@Brett yea, i got shorted that trip by being in the middle of a college semester...grrr Definitely, I have even seen them uncountable times and still enjoy them
@rgchris I'm still getting to your intern comments, thank you
 
@kealist It's exactly what you need!
 
@rgchris sadly this is just an intellectual exercise for the moment, don't have anything planned with it yet. Just thinking about the question someone asked
 
3:31 AM
Understood. Hopefully we'll have forced a name change by the time you eventually think to use it :)
 
@rgchris yes, it is exactly working nicely :)
 
So it means internalise to user context?
 
Right. I assume.
 
As in it adds it to system/contexts/user which may be ideal or not?
 
It's consistent. And somewhat safe.
 
3:39 AM
So for that variable variable question, using INTERN would be closer to how REBOL 2 works, but using extending and using object like I did is probably neater for the actual problem.
(should have put a question mark on that)
 
edited my answer
question about bound?, it returns the context/none rather than true/false. Don't all ? function words return true/false is is that a false impression
 
@Brett Good question—it might be worth looking again after examining the source for INTERN...
 
@Brett up arrow allows editing of last post
 
@kealist This came up earlier—I'd suggested BOUND-TO (also see LENGTH?)
Or possibly BINDING-OF.
Since we have the -OF precedent.
@RebolBot do help -of
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> help -of
Found these related words:
   body-of         function! Returns a copy of the body of a function, obj...
   lib             object!   [end! unset! none! logic! integer! decimal! p...
   map-gob-offset  native!   Translates a gob and offset to the deepest go...
   maximum-of      function! Finds the largest value in a series
   minimum-of      function! Finds the smallest value in a series
   spec-of         function! Returns a copy of the spec of a function or m...
 
3:49 AM
@rgchris i think the past participle ? work for true/false . nouns ? make sense with other results
binding? would return the binding, but bound? should return t/f
that way length? makes sense
 
Ah, right—indeed.
 
length? vs. longed?
haha
 
:)
 
"A bind by any other name would smell as sweet"
 
A bind full of women...
 
3:58 AM
@rgchris I'm not quite getting RESOLVE.
 
Me either.
 
Copy the values from a context to another context?
 
@kealist Trying to see how the /only works.
 
@Brett I'm afraid I can't make it that far!
@RebolBot
a: context [x: 5 y: 12]
b: context [x: 4 y: 11]
resolve a b
print a
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> a: context [x: 5 y: 12] b: context [x: 4 y: 11] resolve a b print a
x: 5
y: 12
 
4:03 AM
@RebolBot
obj1: object [a: 1 b: 2]
obj2: object [b: 11 c: 12]
resolve/all obj1 obj2
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> obj1: object [a: 1 b: 2] obj2: object [b: 11 c: 12] resolve/all obj1 obj2
== RESULT is an object of value:
   a               integer!  1
   b               integer!  11
 
@RebolBot
obj1: object [a: 1 b: 2]
obj2: object [b: 11 c: 12]
resolve/only obj1 obj2 [b]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> obj1: object [a: 1 b: 2] obj2: object [b: 11 c: 12] resolve/only obj1 obj2 [b]
== RESULT is an object of value:
   a               integer!  1
   b               integer!  2
 
@RebolBot
obj1: object [a: 1 b: 2]
obj2: object [b: 11 c: 12]
resolve/only obj1 obj2 1
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> obj1: object [a: 1 b: 2] obj2: object [b: 11 c: 12] resolve/only obj1 obj2 1
== RESULT is an object of value:
   a               integer!  1
   b               integer!  2
 
4:06 AM
@RebolBot
a: context [y: 12]
b: context [x: 4 y: 11]
resolve/extend a b
print a
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> a: context [y: 12] b: context [x: 4 y: 11] resolve/extend a b print a
y: 12
x: 4
 
all of the refinements make sense to me now, but not the non-refinement vanilla function
 
@RebolBot
obj1: object [a: 1 b: 2]
obj2: object [b: 11 c: 12]
append obj1 'c
resolve/only obj1 obj2 1
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> obj1: object [a: 1 b: 2] obj2: object [b: 11 c: 12] append obj1 'c resolve/only obj1 obj2 1
== RESULT is an object of value:
   a               integer!  1
   b               integer!  2
   c               integer!  12
 
:-)
 
4:08 AM
/EXTEND must be new, it's not in the resolve doc
 
So it only sets unsets unless you use /all.
@rgchris Hmm, should have looked at that first :-) "...avoids replacing existing values."
@rgchris Documentation bug.
 
Will not happen when the autodoc begins...
 
it's the weekend again, so maybe Carl will have some time to come on and work
 
It's also not in the previous version of Rebol 3: Resolve
Sigh, that uses Rebol 2 (at the moment)
Need brain break.
 
So reflecting on this I suspect that my original answer to the variable variable question stands, but if one truly wanted the new vars to be in the user context you'd use INTERN.
 
4:18 AM
@Brett especially as @DarrellBrogdon is using R2, not R3
 
@kealist Yes and it shows how R2 was easy to do something and R3 is more powerful with extending contexts. Useful way to learn by trying to answer a question :-)
@GrahamChiu I noticed, your networking scheme doc has gone from r3gui.com, is there a public link for it?
 
Gave myself a headache trying to do it with bind and whatnot!
I just thought I figured out a solution using bind/new
but nope!
 
Why not?
 
@RebolBot
m: to-lit-word "hello"
bind/new m system/contexts/user
set m 5
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-not-defined.html
>> m: to-lit-word "hello" bind/new m system/contexts/user set m 5
*** ERROR
** Script error: hello word is not bound to a context
** Where: set
** Near: set m 5
 
4:28 AM
@RebolBot
m: to-lit-word "hello"
m: bind/new m system/contexts/user
set m 5
 
That is my least favorite error now....
 
Bind will return you the new word in it's correct context, so capture and use that.
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> m: to-lit-word "hello" m: bind/new m system/contexts/user set m 5
== 5
 
ok
 
Back. So still on bind eh? Well... good. I hope someone figures this out.
 
4:30 AM
@RebolBot
word: bind/new to-word "test-word" system/contexts/user
set :word now
?? test-word
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> word: bind/new to-word "test-word" system/contexts/user set :word now ?? test-word
test-word: 24-Aug-2013/6:29:45+2:00
== 24-Aug-2013/6:29:45+2:00
 
I am distracted, and life is complex, and trying to be pound-wise and not penny-foolish I'm not sure if the best way to spend my time is going after this. We can't all be @Ladislav. Speaking of which, @Ladislav, we kind of need a guidance document covering things because we don't get it.
 
@HostileFork I haven't got enough to know what I haven't gotten yet. :-)
 
@Brett "There are known knowns; there are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns; that is to say, there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know." -- Donald Rumsfeld
 
In fairness, we have these binding essays from @BrianH
4
A: REBOL 3 - Where can user defined namespace words be accessed?

BrianHWhen you use words in a script - every command line you enter interactively is a different script - those words are added to system/contexts/user, the user context. Simply having the words in the script at all gets them added to the user context, that is all the "use" that is needed. If any of th...

8
A: What is the summary of the differences in binding behaviour between Rebol 2 and 3?

BrianHThere isn't really a summary somewhere, so let's go over the basics, perhaps a little more informally than Bindology. Let Ladislav write a new version of his treatise for R3 and Red. We'll just go over the basic differences, in order of importance. Object and Function Contexts Here's the big di...

14
A: How are words bound within a Rebol module?

BrianHOK, this is going to be a little tricky. In Rebol 3 there are no such things as system words, there are just words. Some words have been added to the runtime library lib, and set is one of those words, which happens to have a function assigned to it. Modules import words from lib, though what "i...

 
4:35 AM
@HostileFork Yep.
 
In fairness, I may be stupid, but I have a hard time turning this into practical knowledge when I have some odd binding problem.
The code is there, we can read it, we can trace it
 
The truth is in there.
 
I'm starting to get it I think.
 
It would be nice to have a REBOL editor that highlighted the contexts of words. I imagine them something like colours.
Then bind and such is just a way of painting colours!
Well the water at Manly is blue, the sky is blue. Might grab my camera and go for walk, leaving you guys to your nocturnal activities :-)
 
4:42 AM
My nocturnal activities must include sleep...
 
 
10 hours later…
3:00 PM
I wrote up a QA which is from a different direction about the binding issue
@Brett that would be cool, something like the parse-aid, but bind-aid ;)
 
3:14 PM
0
A: REBOL 3 - What does the error "word is not bound to a context" mean?

kealistIn Rebol 3 there is certain behavior of the console and scripts that is important to understand: Anything you type is loaded by REBOL. When it is loaded, it is put in a context. If I type: b: 4 set 'b 5 There is an existing word b or 'b without any of the code/data being evaluated, which is...

0
Q: REBOL 3 - What does the error "word is not bound to a context" mean?

kealistIn experimenting with words in Rebol 3, I ran into the following error. >> set to-lit-word "g" 4 ** Script error: 'g word is not bound to a context ** Where: set ** Near: set to-lit-word "g" 4 This seems pretty tricky because of the following results: >> to-lit-word "g" == 'g >> set 'g 4 == 4...

 
4:11 PM
@kealist Nice one. I think this is good to do, not only as institutional knowledge, but also because of the wiki-like nature where details can be corrected, and we can stop usages of things like REBOL in all caps in question titles and bodies. :-)
Also, when self-answering questions on my own, I find that about half the time someone else actually has a better answer than I thought I had.
(In C++, usually. There are some people here who know C++ really... really... crazy well.)
As with us being here in part because many work on Rebol language design questions etc, there are C++ standards committee members here too around a lot
When the time is right we need to edit the wikipedia page to say, like the Lisp page does: Rebol (historically REBOL) - is a computer language...
 
4:47 PM
@earl I'm honestly confused on what your stance is on the question mark thing. Boolean results only? Not at all? Should length? be length-of or not? It is one of those things R3/Backward needs to be able to make a semi-irrelevant decision for legacy code, but we are getting to the point where these sorts of decisions need to be nailed down, and @DocKimbel's opinion matters here too.
@RebolBot
length-of: :length?

data: [a b c d]
print [{The series is} mold data {and its length is} length-of data]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length-of: :length? data: [a b c d] print ["The series is" mold data "and its length is" length-of data]
The series is [a b c d] and its length is 4
 
I don't really like it as much, and I think it goes back to my feeling that "keywords" shouldn't have hyphens, because I use hyphens as a guide to call out variables and user functions... and while it might be argued that length-of is more literate, I don't like the hyphen.
So my drive that acted like it was dying and the OS refused to write to that had the Recode files on it at first (not memex, the other one) is acting like nothing is wrong now.
It never made any clicking noises, the OS just decided it didn't like it that second morning. Filesystem corruption? Was it just trying to threaten me? Now I have to decide whether to throw it away or not.
(Half terabyte USB external, not bus powerable, desktop drive inside... it's a bit of a dinosaur.)
I guess I can just use it as an Nth backup of something and put it in the tire compartment of my car. If everything else dies, and it doesn't somehow, or if thieves break in and steal all my other drives, I might be thankful it's there.
Hey @Ladislav. Wondering if we have come to an understanding or not. It is difficult as we seem to hit linguistic barriers to realize I'm not vilifying Saphirion, but if @pekr is defending me, you know that it has to be a communication problem. :-)
 
 
1 hour later…
6:39 PM
@DocKimbel so I didn't over hype it, but I spent about a week editing the "What is Red" video. It's not perfect, but I think I made it punchy. If you want to watch the original footage you can :-)
 
6:51 PM
People taking Saturday off, I see. What, do you have lives and not live in a corn field?! How dare you.
Come move here to the cornfield. We have 3 acres, fast Internet. Okra. Pimento cheese. (I forgot pimento cheese existed)
 
7:36 PM
@HostileFork They have the Busker Festival in the middle of this cornfield here, but not so impressive on our drive through today
Semester starts Monday, so new students in town and prepping for class
 
@kealist There is really, nothing here. Nothing at all. My host wanted to get away from LA, and I usually don't miss LA, but here... yeah, one does.
I can't go back, and I'm not going back to Austin, and I can't stay here too long. This is too isolating.
 
You are limited by where you have contacts? Job searching?
 
I don't really need money, it's more about where to be and what to do.
 
Marco wants testers with his conversion of VID for R3 rebol.org/view-script.r?script=vid1r3.r3
 
And I have to decide how serious I want to be about an international job search, and if I do I'd be hired for one thing: the deep C/C++/asm experience. And I do really enjoy C and C++ but I've gotten very used to using it on my own projects, to my own interests... re-adapting to the nose to the grindstone "what the customer wants" is going to take a conscious decision to decide I care about that again.
I know Europe isn't perfect, but I haven't lived there, and I liked Spain
And I speak Spanish
If I could find a job in Madrid, I might take it.
I'd kind of rather live in Germany, but the whole "not speaking German" issue is a problem.
 
7:44 PM
@DarrellBrogdon What you working on today?
@HostileFork Definite adjustment. Sounds like exciting an exciting opportunity
maybe one difficult to make a decision in though
 
@kealist Well as you might have noticed I haven't submitted much in the way of pull requests to Rebol source, despite probably being one of the people in the best positions to do so.
I sort of want to build the culture, and promote complexity elimination, and chasing down random bugs in that codebase vs. sorting out the bigger picture would invest too much in Rebol when Red may be the better plan.
It's 90% the same, but the remaining 10% is big. I don't know if I want to run to security of a job. @DocKimbel has put a lot on the line, and I try to respond in kind.
I think we should be taking Ren more seriously
 
Red?
 
No, Ren. We just have very limited resources. I look at the limited resource issue as being the problem, as opposed to the idea that the existing people aren't working hard enough.
 
When I see ren I automatically think 人, but didn't know it was something else
 
I grew up a dyed-in-the-wool programmer, and I branched out to graphic design... video editing... foaming milk for coffee... I got interested in being less specific. And what draws me to Rebol is mostly related to what I would have liked about it as a kid, or what Doc calls "the fun".. indeed I started with Basic.
 
7:57 PM
i reworked doc's cheyenne build scripts to work with his new git repo: github.com/onetom/cheyenne-build/blob/master/build.reb
 
Sadly despite being the son of a programmer, I really didn't much beside HTML until I was in college. I did spend my childhood at Amiga conferences and played with Rebol before it was released. Just always been focused on other things more.
 
i haven't shown much rebol code of mine publicly yet, so here is this one now, which i just wrote 2 days ago; please comment on it
 
In college, learned scheme, java, c but usually tried to do things in rebol whenever I could.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:11 PM
i made a "bookmark": try.rebol.info
 
@onetom If Kaj wants to host it and not make it a redirect, I'd be okay with that, but only as a sample case of the desire we have as a community to replace things when better options come up
We want try.rebol.net to be emscripten based
And tutorial based, so we can get some rest and have the browser talk to people
I never delivered on it because I didn't have a secure enough backend, and he didn't want to work with me where I did the interface and he handled the requests
But really, the game has changed with a Javascript build.
 
@HostileFork sure, no problem. i will change any time; just wanted to incept the idea of having such a subdomain (ideally under rebol.net or rebol.org of course)
 
@onetom It's a good move. I also like the idea that rebol.info as a short link could serve a purpose... a onesheet of "Why you should use Rebol"
So that's the eventual purpose I can see, but I don't see subdomains
Just maybe a better link for us to give out than the Rebol in ten steps. An advertisement at an easy to remember link
 
btw, anyone can get any subdomain under rebol.info because it's hosted on freedns.afraid.org
dont hold yourself back to experiment w subdomains
consider it as an experimentation ground for the upcoming rebol.net/org domains
 
@onetom Thanks!
Just got back from my meeting with the forester regarding the unmanned aerial drone project. Started at 7am this morning, traveled to some forest lands about an hour away, did some hiking and a lot of discussing, and wrote up a proposal.
Got back at 2pm.
 
10:25 PM
As the vision statement was laid out :-) the rebol.org domains would all have to be open source, community maintained from the get-go. No real rules on the rebol.net domains. U host it, u got it, if your project is reasonable-sounding. Sourcing it would be nice but not a requirement if it is inconvenient to document or replicate.
(The Fork Shaman went on a vision quest, and this is what the spirit guide said.)
(There was something also about my fifth grade teacher, and my teeth falling out, but let's disregard those bits.)
 
@HostileFork im with you on these, except i can edit rebol.info but i cant edit the other 2
@HostileFork :D
 
Whoa, @graph. Long time no see. You've missed... well, not too much really. Although, look how tight the Rebol GitHub looks now
 
hey @HostileFork you can get by in Germany without german quite ok, and if you come in my area I'll buy you a beer, that's for sure!
looks tight!
 
@graph I'm of the opinion that these little things make a difference. Although not necessarily an overnight difference.
 
which little things? A tight GitHub or the beer?
 
10:31 PM
I mean... it's not so much that doing it right guarantees success. Success is a difficult and multifaceted thing. I'm just saying that there's no point in doing basic things wrong. Because then you never get to the actual thing you're trying to talk about.
It's always about the beer/wine. And cigars, apparently.
@graph I'm just glad that now we're hitting github's rebol/rebol and red/red accounts. That was pretty sneaky of Doc, to email about a dead Red account, and the GitHub people (programmers) looked at his work and were like "yeah, we'll cancel this account and give it to you, you deserve it".
A light acknowledgement of effort.
And renaming rebol from "rebol/r3" to "rebol/rebol" was something I'd asked for.
@graph If you have a moment, well worth watching: What is Red
 
I think I've seen that live - do you have put work into it with regards the sound quality?
 
@graph I did a bit of work but mostly just trying to make the first hour get compressed into the first 20 minutes :-)
 
so what are you up to these days @HostileFork what are you working on?
 
@graph The occasional promotion of Rebmu, which I rewrote.
@graph Trying to take the hodgepodge of materials from the conference and turn them into videos someone might want to watch.
 
are you actually working on Rebol itself or a specific project?
 
10:46 PM
@graph Video editing is actually very involved. Editing that Red talk took a week of work. It's hard to explain to those who don't know what video editing involves... but you don't throw 2 hours of footage at an editor and "it just happens". Also, I've been relocated, and I sort of have to balance learning about the area with any plans for the future.
@graph I'd like to just see the basic foundations move forward here. We had a good weekend actually, if you didn't see the commits, but it felt like actual progress.
 
no doubt about the video thing. I edited some video myself recently, took very long for very little
 
I've been griping about how much I don't feel like I get to code, and I am thinking about how long I will be tolerant of that.
 
where do you live now? And why? And @mmeghan?
 
@graph She backed out of the move. So I am currently, post conference, staying with a friend in rural North Carolina. It's... rural. I describe the literal fact that I am surrounded by cornfields. But fast internet.
 
and why?
 
10:51 PM
@graph Because corn channels electromagnetic signals, increasing the speed of the cable Internet.
 
no, why did you move to that place?
 
Oh, my friend found a job at an aerospace company and got a house here, and when I mentioned I didn't know where I should go because I had no plan, he said "you should come here"
It's pretty laid back.
 
I think it's an american thing. Packing up and moving to a random place seems just a little more casual over there
 
He hasn't charged me any rent yet. I keep telling him to send me a PayPal invoice or something. I think he doesn't want me to leave and is trying to incentivize.
 
why does he want to you to stay around? What do you bring to the table?
(I mean not that there isn't anything, I mentioned free beer when you come to my place earlier, remember?)
 
10:57 PM
@graph As you know, I'm super fascinating. I also bring HD high res video equipment, DSLR cameras, studio monitor speakers, and even random women in the JavaScript room stalk me, apparently. I'm fun, ask anyone.
 
that link does aparently not link to the women
 
But really we're just watching TV backlogs a lot on my big screen and Netflix account. We just finished up Parks and Recreation, we're onto Breaking Bad. Which is pretty good.
 
unless something is going over my head
 
@graph Copy/paste bug. Fixed
Anyway, the thing is, I try to prioritize my time, as I have more free time than most. And yes, I could live indefinitely in this Internet-enabled cornfield until I have a physical ailment.
But the reason I work on community and videos and such and urging the websites to improve is because I feel that's the missing link. Rebol already trounces other languages technologically. Fixing random bugs is great, but anyone (well, not anyone, but many people) can do that.
And I also really support the direction of Red. So it's hard. I have to decide if I want to go get a job or not, and if I do, I can't work here. I'd have to move.
 
You could work remote. You're the kind of guy who could pull it off
 
11:03 PM
If I'm going to work, I'd like decent pay, and few people are paid decently remote.
 
you live for free in a cheap area, no?
 
Not because remote people can't do good work, but because there is a general culture or concept of "commitment", longer-term contracts, it's a promise and you live by your reputation on that. I don't make a lot of promises that last longer than a month, but if I ever do, I'll certainly keep it.
@graph Well I am asking to be billed it just hasn't happened yet. If I really wanted to live for free I could live with my parents. That's... not going to happen. :-)
Though I know a number of entrepreneurs actually, who have taken a year or so to develop a concept going back and living with their parents, and then have that taken off. It's apparently a more commonplace occurrence in the US than it was.
I'm all for practicality, but I think that's a line I don't really want to cross.
So I'm happy to pay to stay wherever I am. :-)
 
That's something I think you should do even more than working remote, developing your own concept
I guess you have many many ideas and you could do it too
 
@graph Well you are younger, and I do understand that the "zeitgeist" as they'd say about entrepreneurialism is a much stronger thing than when I was a kid. When I was younger it was all about "hey, work hard and maybe someday this company will decide you're worthy and hire you". The people who were sort of ahead of that curve founded the Googles and Yahoos of the world, just slightly younger than I. I missed that wave.
 
hm
 
11:11 PM
While I can see it now tactically, it's not in my heart. I'm a fairly conventional bureaucrat and organizer with a technical edge who is kind of funny. :-)
I don't care about money, and I don't like thinking about it.
Breaking Bad is interesting. If you don't know the premise, a chemistry teacher with lung cancer who wants to provide a financial legacy for his family decides to "go bad" and becomes a really, really good crystal meth maker.
 
I think I've watched a trailer on youtube, and I've seen many pop-culture references, reddit etc.
 
And young programmers growing up these days... it's like... a real lure to them, to be a hacker for the mob. They aspire to it.
 
uhm for the mob?
 
"What do you want to be when you grow up?" "I want to grow up and find the transaction vulnerability to steal from bank of america!"
 
startups, yea. but being a programmer who wants to provide a financial legacy and "going bad"? Not so much
 
11:15 PM
@graph Well there is no longer one "mafia". Just little subnets of criminals.
 
well there's surely more of a willingness to do crappy, abusive stuff. Things are more volatile, jobs and a middle class existence not guaranteed, there are no more "normal people" featured on TV.
Someone commented on the 80s series "Golden Girls", and how they kinda were the last normal people.
 
I've met somebody.
I'm feeling excited and now things are starting to happen that I've been waiting for a long time!
 
@graph Are those two unrelated statements?
 
Nah related. The idea was that it sounds like "ah a girl or something" while .. PLOT TWIST I think I might have found a programming buddy lol. A former colleague, and we've started a little project together
but you said you couln't fully relate to this kind of stuff (startups and projects while living with parents), hard to accept since...you know how many programmers out there are hacks and not really able to see someting through from start to finish, let alone think of doing that outside their work....
 
11:31 PM
@graph Well teach him/her Rebol and Red. It's useful, really. I still say not ready for prime time app delivery, but people use scripts in throwaway languages all the time and they're really... unpleasant. I gag when I see it.
PHP and Javascript and Perl inevitably is terrible. Python and Ruby is... eh... well, it can be done in a semi-literate way for solving problems... but... we're sort of on the leading edge of literacy in software here.
 
We're working based on some code I wrote 3 years ago in C#/ASP.NET which still works
 
@graph Well in the cultural narrative there are these ideas of Zen masters, people who draw intricate things with sticks in the sand to be wiped away by the tides... the point isn't about the work, it's about what your mind practices.
 
turns out all those little projects you start are useful for something, and 3x so if they end up as working, functional code. Plus the learning experience, never underestimate anything you gain after a few hours confusion
 
The practice of clarity.
 
in italics no less!
 
11:37 PM
@graph I've rewritten BlackHighlighter twice. I don't feel people "get it" yet, but look how long it took for "wiki" to catch on.
 
"The hope is to coax completely private conversations into the light so they are mostly public."
 
@graph Starring any quote of that. Because, I've done a lot of work on it, and even the head of Cloud Foundry at VMWare liked it and was willing to put it on their homepage... I could have pushed more. But I have a lot of projects, and node.js turned out to be kind of annoying.
 
well as we know there's no real privacy right now, regrettably.
so shoudln't we go the other way? Real, easy to use encryption
and of course political change away from paranoia to a sensible balance, no data hoarding
 
Well let us say you are trying to sell a niche product like Kombucha Tea in rural United States. You can have the best graphic design, the best cost propositions, but then there is "educating the market". They don't know why they would or not want your product.
People are not educated enough to demand digital rights, of any kind, in general.
 
oh but there are strong expectations in place, that not everything I ever say or do should be aggregated and taken out of context. That more informaion about me is used by people, than I know about myself. Such stuff is obvious, it's just that things are happening to fast and invisible so people don't know what to do
there is little social interaction. People are individualized, don't know the names of their neighbors, are consumerist and stand in line for vain products instead of ...discuss political topics. THings like facebook, google, reveal their true consequence after you've signed up, and you can't really opt out anyway out of many things. Sooooooooooooooooooooo
 
11:45 PM
Well remember the directive: "thou shalt not worship graven images". All pictures of glaring forks are not equal. And I don't have the time or interest to survey any theft of reputation. It's kind of a free for all in these parts.
"Judge an interaction by its qualities, not preconception."
 
easier said than done!
 
Well if more people knew cryptography we could make some headway, but XKCD is prescient as always.
 
no I don't mind to give my "secrets" for a search warrant
 
I don't really have any secrets that I can think of.
 
I don't like the systematic data collection by who knows whom, and usage in algorithms that are not yet exist (but will in a few years)
ah. Thing is, even "computer people" like us who've done a few SQL queries can not grasp the magnitude of that thing.
Like the scientists who saw the first nuclear explosion.
 
11:51 PM
Funny you'd bring it up. Most of my passwords can be reverse engineered, deliberately from the formulation of the security questions, and I monitor access attempts.... or not if I don't care. Even the scientist in Wargames made his password "Joshua" to try and stop people from launching nuclear weapons.
 
your passwords to web/cloud based services?
 
Some would say "what a dumb password" but I would say it's sort of a lock and key protocol.
It indicates that the person hacking or attempting access has more than a passing interest in the life and times of the account.
If I leave a security answer to recovery, it's always just random banging on the keyboard, because the recovery protocol should be more secure than the password... not less
Or if I think the site is a farce, it will be a puzzle, and I encourage people to find me.
 
so you're one of the people who..post quite a few links. That other people follow. You use words...that other people pick up after being in contact with you. Automatically, your influence in society can be measured. Right? The influence of everyone in society can be measured. Maybe it turns out it's just a few 1000 people who do stuff. Just a few websites/groups who don't knwo that they initiate many things. Good stuff to know, huh?
It's not about your password and your harddisk. It's about meta-data, traffic
 
@graph If you get heavily metaphiscal it becomes far from Rebol indeed.
How about a nice game of chess?
 
literally?
 

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