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6:45 AM
@MarkI //// //// //// // //// ////////, /// // // / /// //// //////// //// /////// // ///////// (Well then that is very limiting, got to be a bit more creative when naming my variables).
 
7:06 AM
sorry, but this is nonsense. I am also no HF hater. I like some of the changes he proposed/did. I don't like some others, what's wrong with that? It' s solely his problem that he labels anyone who disagrees with him as hater, who's part of some insane conspiracy of people that try to irritate him.
That's certainly not the case. He has his opinions about language design, I have mine. The only difference here is, that I don't call everyone who disagrees with me idiot and scammer. Also I don't think that I am the smartest person in the universe.
 
7:30 AM
I'm relatively certain that this is not how the smartest person in the universe would spend their time.
 
@HostileFork calling other idiots and scammers? Right, I agree.
 
@rebolek I don't imagine things. There's a perfectly fine thread going along in the forum and then you post. Look at everything above, then look at yours. Does anything seem out of place?
 
No, you imagine things. You wrote that me and Oldes posting was coordinated. It wasn't.
 
I clicked on the like thing to expand it out and verify it was Oldes who liked it, and it's tacked me on now as liking it, and won't let me undo. Great.
I don't know if a-priori coordination was ever a point. The point is interjecting into an otherwise decent conversation and going fairly straight to "It is not a fix, not an improvement, it’s just another example of @hostilefork’s hate for all things Rebol."
 
"But hopefully the Czech contingent of people-not-actually-interested-in-advancing-the-project have finished their regularly scheduled annoyance."

1) I am interested in advancing Rebol-like languages. I just don't like some of your decisions. I like others. What's wrong with that?
2) "regularly scheduled annoyance", it was not scheduled, we haven't spoke together for few weeks, maybe months. This is just stupid conspiracy theory.
" it’s just another example of @hostilefork’s hate for all things Rebol" - yes, I may have exaggerate it a bit, but you are well known for changing stuff that's perfectly fine, just because you think that you know better.
 
7:46 AM
That was intended as a kind of humor. I just mean that it's not like you show up with flowers and chocolate some percent of the time. When you show up, it's a pattern of saying and starring each others criticisms of me..
There is a saying in American TV when they interrupt, something like "now back to your regularly scheduled programming"
 
I occasionally also show up to appreciate something you did, when I think it makes sense.
 
Well, look, this stuff is Internet. And it involves things we work on a lot and it gets out of proportion with--say--actual world problems and things that people disagree and cut each other up with bonesaws over.
It's not really that big a deal.
 
Right, it's not big deal. There are people who may not like some of your decisions. That does not mean they're idiots and scammers.
 
Well some of that is a separate track of thought. I do have quite genuine feelings that pushing and promoting a language without giving people necessary caveats is disingenuous, and there's a kind of malice intrinsic to that. Though in a way, this is the nature of most business; businesses do not consider it their responsibility to educate the public about their product's known weaknesses. It's left to the review sites to aggregate and decide.
But I have agreed that there's little point in ranting or arguing about it. You make the things, you show the things, people compare the things. We can't really get much anywhere with talking--there's too much of a philosophy gap, or cultural gap, or something. I don't know what. It sucks that there's nowhere for it to go but it's the way of many problems people have when it's not a solvable thing.
Bands break up, marriages break up, companies break up, open source projects break up. Creative or irreconcilable differences and this happens all. the. time.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:10 AM
Trouble with last build on Linux x86_64: r3: error while loading shared libraries: libltdl.so.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory, but I have /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libltdl.so.7 Anyone experimenting same trouble?
 
11:10 AM
(Come direbbe il nostro ex presidente Napolitano: "Abbassiamo i toni.")
 
11:27 AM
$ ldd ./r3
        linux-vdso.so.1 =>  (0x00007ffd45dfe000)
        libasan.so.4 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libasan.so.4 (0x00007f488afce000)
        libdl.so.2 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2 (0x00007f488adca000)
        libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6 (0x00007f488aa44000)
        libm.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6 (0x00007f488a6ee000)
        libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007f488a4d7000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007f488a0f7000)
@giuliolunati No problems, and no libltdl.so linked into my x64 executable (though, building with generic-c++ config, there)
 
@HostileFork Problem for me arised with downloaded Travis build 0.4.4
 
@giuliolunati That is built with ODBC and that is labeled that odbc requires ltdl. So I guess perhaps you don't have a 32-bit version of it available? I don't know. Shixin set that up, and presumably he did it for a reason...that unixodbc would not link otherwise.
 
@HostileFork weird... always worked for me before...
 
11:42 AM
@giuliolunati My x64 linux does not seem to want to run the 0.4.4 download at all.
 
11:58 AM
posted on October 19, 2018 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: Rebol has two major areas of case-insensitivity by default. One is in binding, so variable naming and function names are handled case-insensitively. The other is in general treatment of data…so routines like FIND, etc. Historically data case-insensitivity has applied to = / equal? as well. Ren-C plans to undo that particular choic

 
^-- Forum post links to a related new blog.hostilefork.com entry: "Making the Case for Caselessness"
 
 
3 hours later…
2:39 PM
@HostileFork Fascinating ... but still, numbers (digits?), not symbols. Also IMO calling the difference a case difference is a tad misleading, it's more like "slang" and "proper" use. Anyway, Unicode is full of different sets of digits, but I believe it is intended that there be only one of any sign or symbol (homoglyphs notwithstanding).
 
3:36 PM
making-the-case-for-caselessness is an awesome blog post @HostileFork, kudos squared on that -- but if you will permit me to pick some nits (1) my browser shows 26^4 and 56^4 as 264 and 564 respectively, hopefully my fault somehow and (2) 26 doubled is 52, not 56, so sorry about that :)
 
 
3 hours later…
6:34 PM
@HostileFork Oh, you're right! Was 0.4.40... works fine after installing libzmq3, thanks.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:40 PM
@MarkI Thanks for the detail read, fixed. I think that the article provides a sort of missing link in terms of justification, and the angle of what it means to have "freedom from" case-sensitivity...which doesn't get emphasized whenever someone is confronting a specific inconvenience that not being case-sensitive gave them in any given moment.
@giuliolunati It's unfortunate to be getting dependencies in the travis builds; at the same time it's important that they test building extensions on any platforms they can. I'm not sure where the balance here is. Long ago earl and I had talked about a web page where you could tick off the platform and extensions you want, hand it a commit number, and a hosted service would build that executable for you on demand.
We can ask zeromq to be put statically into the Travis executables, also. I don't know on balance how big we want to make them.
In the tests, essentially every occurrence of = should have been ==.
Unless the test was specifically testing a facility of lax inequality, the test should not have been using lax inequality. This is kind of a microcosm of what bolsters the idea that = should be strict. My impression is that most people believe this was the better answer, even before IS was proposed as a friendly-looking lax equality.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:16 PM
posted on October 19, 2018 by hostilefork

It's an established fact that rounding floating point numbers is not something you can do in the general case: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/12/floating_point_approximation/ But it seems some things that appear to round evenly in Rebol2 and Red, e.g.: rebol2> round/even/to 1.555555 1E-5 == 1.55556 ...do not round evenly in R3-Alpha: r3-alpha> round/even/to 1.555555 1E-5 == 1.

 

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