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7:01 AM
I'm not asking why it exists, I'm just trying to get my head around what makes Rebol unique.
I'm looking at the dictionary, trying to find a word that would let me combine two lists into into a list of pairs. Is that a primitive?
 
@tangentstorm The focus has not been on matrix libraries or things of that sort in core. It's more about making such things trivial to write. What are your semantics? Are you sure the lists are equal size? If they're not then what happens? I make the comparison often to LEGO alligators. This is what I call a "bad" LEGO alligator:
A good LEGO alligator isn't so concerned about taking you straight to a single alligator instance, with an upper jaw that only hinges on that one spot...and a swishing tale with poles that doesn't fit into the broader paradigm.
 
@tangentstorm, here are some example higher order functions. These would maybe need some slight adjustment for Rebol 3. See the zip, in particular.
http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?color=yes&script=hof.r
 
That's a good LEGO alligator. So in that sense, I would say, that characteristics of the design of Rebol has focused less on large standard libraries out of the box but making sure that the parts compose nicely so that people with new applications can tear them up and compose them into what they need. It's an ergonomics thing.
 
Thanks, Adrian
 
But also please bear in mind Rebol was only open sourced in 12-Dec-2012, and Red began as a project in 2011. There's a lot of history, but the history of truly bringing in new ideas and experiments on the source is relatively recent. We are recruiting for help, not so much selling a finished product. We just think there's some new and compelling ideas here. Those who try it tend to get addicted and then, go off and take it to apply to whatever their problem space is.
@tangentstorm As an example, I'm actually having to argue about adding 18K to the executable by bringing Zlib up to date from 15 years ago. And I wrote a script that pares down the official repository into one header and one C file, which ships in the build so there's no dependency. Most projects wouldn't question those 18K, but I have to fight for it... and may have to #ifdef out unused code to get it in.
Is it annoying to have an uphill battle on that? Well, sort of. But then, look at the by-products of unquestioned dependencies. And yeah, maybe I can look over it and #ifdef out some stuff. But the fact is that, 1/2 meg executable can still churn out PNG files with the image native type. You just don't see this other places.
You can make image! 100x100, poke pixels into it, and save it as a PNG... the list is pretty deep of stuff this can do. I really do feel like we're building LEGO in a world of throwaway action figures. And are our alligators kind of weird looking? Maybe. I guess it takes a certain kind of point of view to think the first alligator I showed is "ugly" and the second is "beautiful".
It's all a spectrum, really...
 
7:15 AM
That's fair. It's perfectly fine with me to not have primitives that do crazy things like that. Some languages (haskell, python, J) have 'zip' or something like it as a primitive out of the box. Forth has a completely different set of primitives because it's a different kind of language, and that's okay too. I was just trying to get a feel for what rebol's about. :)
 
@tangentstorm Lisp meets literate programming meets byte-optimized Finnish demoscene hackers from the 90s. :-)
The "anti-XML"
@RebolBot Crockford
 
@RebolBot
parse "aaabbdddd" [
    3 "a"
    some "b"
    any "c"
    1 4 "d"
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aaabbdddd" [3 "a" some "b" any "c" 1 4 "d"]
== true
 
7:19 AM
@HostileFork where's the source for the redbot ?
 
@tangentstorm The interpretation of that is three "a", followed by some number (non-zero) of "b", followed by any number (zero okay) of "c", and then between 1 and 4 "d"). So you get true on that string. Get it?
 
sure.
 
@GrahamChiu @johnk customized RedBot to be a slight variant of RebolBot, it evaluates Red but is still running as a Rebol program.
 
like /aaab+c*d{1,4}/
 
@HostileFork awww .. cheating!
 
7:21 AM
@RebolBot
parse "aaaabbbabbab" [
    some [
         "a" (print "Found an A!")
    |
         "b" (print "Found a B!")
    ]
]
 
0
A: How to associate file extensions with MIME type with Cheyenne?

Graham ChiuCould you change extension to .rsp instead and then generate the appropriate headers that way with the feed data as a data block inside the rsp script?

 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aaaabbbabbab" [some ["a" (print "Found an A!") | "b" (print "Found a B!")]]
Found an A!
Found an A!
Found an A!
Found an A!
Found a B!
Found a B!
Found a B!
Found an A!
Found a B!
Found a B!
Found an A!
Found a B!
== true
 
@tangentstorm Like it, except not completely incoherent. Now do you see the second example? If a PAREN! block follows a match rule, it is executed as code if the rule matches. Got it?
 
yep.
 
@RebolBot
rule: ["a" | "b"]
parse "abbabaqcccab" [
    some [
        rule
    |
        "q" (append rule [| "c"])
    ]
]
 
7:24 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> rule: ["a" | "b"] parse "abbabaqcccab" [some [rule | "q" (append rule [| "c"])]]
== true
 
@tangentstorm Okay, get that one?
 
not yet
 
@GrahamChiu so it is only a very minor change to do-rebol-and-rebol-like-expression-command.r3 to change the evaluation order. Not really worth publishing.
 
SOME number of instances of either RULE or if "q" change rule to add two elements, the option of allowing "c". Hence q modifies the rule and it passes.
 
is "q" (append rule [| "c"]) just a long way of saying [ "q" | "c" ] ?
 
7:25 AM
it is in /home/ec2-user/redbot/commands on the ec2 box if you want to review
 
@tangentstorm Nope, it modifies rule from ["a" | "b"] to become ["a" | "b" | "c"]
 
@johnk and I was thinking red had raced ahead to rebol equivalence!
 
ah colo
er cool even.
 
Now check this out.
 
@GrahamChiu I was hoping to get it running in red, but reimplementing rgchris's altjson in red was a bit too much for me
 
7:26 AM
@RebolBot
parse #{FFFFFFFFFFDECAFBAD000000} [
    some #{FF}
    copy data to #{00}
    (print reverse data)
    to end
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse #{FFFFFFFFFFDECAFBAD000000} [some #{FF} copy data to #{00} (print reverse data) to end]
#{ADFBCADE}
== true
 
@tangentstorm Rebol's STRING is a series of unicode codepoints. Abstract integers, basically. But it also has a series of bytes, known as a BINARY. Parse works on that too. Here you see it parsing binary data (input in this case is a binary literal), it reverses that literal which reverses the bytes, and prints it. Cool, yes?
Note that PARSE is what we call a dialect. An application of Rebol's "anti-XML" data syntax, which happens to be used by the default evaluator, except with a whole new evaluator.
 
so #{FF} is a binary literal for the byte representing 255?
 
@RebolBot
print first #{FF00FF00}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print first #{FF00FF00}
255
 
7:29 AM
@tangentstorm You have more than that... er, what are those other syntaxes?
@RebolBot
print 2#{00001111}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print #{0F}
#{0F}
 
@johnk @GrahamChiu Are you able to restart the Cheyenne server? Think I found what I was looking for...
 
So there's your base-2 literal. There's also base 64, I don't have a base 64 constant handy
 
@rebolbot do parse [ test@email.com google.com $500.00 ][ email! url! money! ]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse [test@email.com google.com $500.00] [email! url! money!]
== true
 
7:30 AM
@RebolBot
print 2#{0011} and 2#{0101}
 
@rgchris not right now! Try sudo /etc/init.d/cheyenne restart
 
@tangentstorm What are you trying to say?
 
@tangentstorm The binary type is not capable of holding sub-byte sized content.
 
@tangentstorm parse is very interesting when using native rebol datatypes!
 
@RebolBot
2#{00000011} and 2#{00000010}
 
7:32 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> #{03} and #{02}
== #{02}
 
@RebolBot
#{0011} and #{0101}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> #{0011} and #{0101}
== #{0001}
 
there we go :)
@RebolBot
#{0011} xor #{0101}
 
@tangentstorm Well, that's not base 2, that's hexadecimal. :-)
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> #{0011} xor #{0101}
== #{0110}
 
7:34 AM
yeah, but it works either way :)
 
@tangentstorm So @johnk is jumped the gun and interrupted my flow (for which I should be thankful, because I can't be the only automated tutorial bot in the room forever. We should spread the duties around. Even robots get bored :-P) But anyway, he took it to the next point which is that PARSE is a super nice general purpose tool, and it works even on symbolic data.
 
@johnk Thanks, think that worked...
 
@RebolBot
parse [apple apple banana banana apple apple] [
    some [
        'apple (print "found an apple!")
    |
        'banana (print "found a banana!")
    ]
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse [apple apple banana banana apple apple] [some ['apple (print "found an apple!") | 'banana (print "found a banana!")]]
found an apple!
found an apple!
found a banana!
found a banana!
found an apple!
found an apple!
== true
 
how would you capture the thing matched?
 
7:36 AM
@tangentstorm Phrase that as a problem. The what matched? What are you looking for?
 
parse [ a a b b c c ] [ some [ 'a | 'b | 'c ] (print "matched this: ") ]
so that it would print "matched a" then "matched b" etc.
 
@HostileFork sorry :-) Not quite thinking straight - after work drinks
 
what would i replace the word this: with i guess
 
@johnk I was joking, like I say, I like to come back when I'm not here and people have been talking. Back 6 months ago if I left for a couple days people went all quiet.
Now they keep talking even when I'm not here, and that's good.
@tangentstorm Okay so you mean to say you want it to only print out matching after a group is hit, not for each instance in a group?
 
@HostileFork Please continue.
 
7:40 AM
@RebolBot
parse [ a a b b b b c c c c ] [
    some 'a (print "matched some As")
    some 'b (print "matched some Bs")
    some 'c (print "matched some Cs")
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse [a a b b b b c c c c] [some 'a (print "matched some As") some 'b (print "matched some Bs") some 'c (print "matched some Cs")]
matched some As
matched some Bs
matched some Cs
== true
 
@tangentstorm In this case, the paren code is after the rule. Note the difference with...
 
no i mean i want to match any of those things and fire the same rule.
without having to type it 3 times
 
@RebolBot
parse [ a a b b b b c c c c ] [
    some ['a (print "matched an A")]
    some ['b (print "matched a B")]
    some ['c (print "matched a C")]
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse [a a b b b b c c c c] [some ['a (print "matched an A")] some ['b (print "matched a B")] some ['c (print "matched a C")]]
matched an A
matched an A
matched a B
matched a B
matched a B
matched a B
matched a C
matched a C
matched a C
matched a C
== true
 
7:41 AM
like can it pass whatever it matched to the action somehow?
like say i have 100 different words i want to match. if it matches any of those words, print it, otherwise do nothing. do i need 100 print statements?
 
@RebolBot
parse [a a b b c c] [
    some [
        set matched-word ['a | 'b | 'c] (
            print ["matched" to string! matched-word]
        )
    ]
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse [a a b b c c] [some [set matched-word ['a | 'b | 'c] (print ["matched" to string! matched-word])]]
matched a
matched a
matched b
matched b
matched c
matched c
== true
 
Ta da.
 
awesome :)
 
@tangentstorm You were asking what makes Rebol unique, and I said I could sort of start talking about it one way or another, but... remember that we've also got...
 
7:45 AM
@rgchris so you got application/.. working?
 
@RebolBot
parse (to string! read tangentstorm.com) [
    thru <h1>
    copy header-text to </h1>
]
print header-text
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse (to string! read tangentstorm.com) [thru <h1> copy header-text to </h1>] print header-text
tangentstorm's awesome placeholder homepage
 
@GrahamChiu Yep. And I have a feed for you...
 
@tangentstorm And I will remind you, our download has zero dependencies, single executable, half megabyte: http://rebolsource.net
 
7:46 AM
it's a few years since I've actually mucked around with having to configure cheyenne
 
And that's just Rebol. Red is going to beg, borrow, and steal from it and then change the game.
And I designed the iconography, so I will be all kinds of Paul Rand famous after I'm dead. :-)
 
0
A: How to associate file extensions with MIME type with Cheyenne?

rgchrisGot it! In httpd.cfg in either the globals, default or host section (see docs), add this directive: set-mime application/atom+xml .feed or set-mime application/atom+xml [.feed .atom]

 
@tangentstorm Anyway, yeah, we're definitely looking for motivated contributors... as a user, if you want a C-like language Red/System is usable and being applied in at least one commercial project. Red is built on Red/System the way Rebol is built on C, but because Red/System has the same syntax it's embeddable more naturally.
(Red/System cannot do metaprogramming or reflection, it doesn't have "code blocks" as a native type, it's not homoiconic even though its structure is processable by Red/Rebol homoiconicity)
But for the moment, Rebol is plenty of fun and mature and teaches the groundwork of what Red will be like in a year plus some unknown delta :-)
@rgchris Trying to port a site from Apache to Cheyenne? Which one?
 
Well, thanks for the tour. I'll play around with it. :)
 
7:53 AM
@tangentstorm The documentation of the state of Rebol3 is lacking so we, um... are kind of like Kramer on that Seinfeld episode where he gets mixed up with Moviefone's number, but starts answering it.
 
@HostileFork I'm not—@johnk set up a site on Cheyenne, I'm just making a couple of adjustments.
 
it's the rebol.info site
 
@tangentstorm Basically, we're doing the missing documentation's job, but we're pretty fast about it. :-) So if you don't understand something, it's usually faster to ask here first. We're attempting to seize community control of rebol.org and rebol.net, at which point we hope to fix up the documentation but... holding one's breath is not suggested. :-)
 
:P
 
@HostileFork we already control rebol.org ...
 
7:56 AM
And are migrating existing content off of it. Preserving links as we go...
 
Well, Sunanda, Gregg etc do
 
@GrahamChiu As the joke goes, "What do you mean 'we', Sunanda and Gregg?"
 
Actually, I believe it's Carl that holds the domain.
 
Well the key is redirecting the help pages so if you say browse print and want to see a help page, that it goes to a page that we can update in a reasonable amount of time. We've seen that single-point-of-failure administration does not work, period.
 
@rgchris We, being those of us who are not Carl, control the content on rebol.org :)
 
8:03 AM
Speaking for myself, I do not define myself as "anyone who isn't Carl". YMMV. :-)
Or maybe I should change that around. Ship me my fishtanks and dog, Graham-me!
@IliaIliev Apologies on the sub-20 point situation, it can be rectified easily with another question or answer. Welcome to StackOverflow! (I upvoted your question about email although I did have a bit of confusion with it, as it seemed your log was working correctly and didn't present a problem.)
 
And I'm sure I heard Carl say we can do what we want along the lines of what was discussed with rebol.net
But who has the time??
 
@GrahamChiu Working on it...
 
@IliaIliev In the meantime, you can go set your avatar here. Also, even if you see another question that has been answered, but if you think you have a "new angle", you can answer it in . There is plenty of non-Rebol Q&A too, just to throw in your questions or answers and get some points...
 
Must get around to publishing the pop3 scheme for R3. Can't remember, did we solve the issue of timeouts yet?
 
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 154 so chat away!
 
8:09 AM
@Tarmo "I have allways deeply enjoyed learning different programming languages and understanding how to make the most from each of them." => Well, you've just run into a couple of weird ones. Welcome! Happy to explain if you're not familiar...
 
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 2387 so chat away!
 
This is going to be interesting
 
@PatsyIssa We welcome questions and curious people. :-) Ask away. We tend to ask about where people are starting from if they are new, and "know any Lisp?" is a good start...
 
@rebolek a number of the schemes do multiple reads to fetch all the data. Eg. the pop, and the ftp protocols.
 
Starting from a web background nothing all too impressive :)
 
8:20 AM
@PatsyIssa Well, we all must start somewhere. Do you know any Regular Expressions?
 
@HostileFork Some basics, most use i v had for them so far was validating user input and such.
On a side note you should change your name to NotSoHostileFork :D
 
@GrahamChiu I've managed to do multiple reads (with read from read), unfortunately I've no time to continue with it right now as I must finish some web pages...tedious job...before I can continue playing with schemes and protocols.
 
@PatsyIssa Not actually hostile, just a bit irate is my slogan. :-) If you catch me in a bad mood, I'll give quite a long angry rant.
I'm a bit like Poke the Penguin. As one person put it: "A very, very long fuse tied to an atomic bomb."
@PatsyIssa An example I've gotten interested in, as a question to pose to a programmer... is let us say you were given a string and were told it had some text in brackets. You are supposed to get the text out. "Hello [World]" would print "World" for instance. How would you write it?
 
To be honest i would google it and land here
 
@rebolek You need to know somehow when to stop doing the reads. Otherwise you'll hang if doing a read when no more data is coming. So, ftp does this as it knows beforehand how much data is coming, and pop knows by looking for the termination octets
And same for http.
 
8:28 AM
@PatsyIssa Good honest answer, but okay, that's just the expression. I wanted to print it.
 
Oh my bad, one sec ^^
 
I'll accept an ALERT in JavaScript, or whatever, I'm just pointing out that the expression alone doesn't tell the whole story.
You have to get the result of the expression into some variable that can be printed somehow, etc. etc.
There's an addressing system for saying that the variable comes from capture group 1, or capture group 2, blah blah
 
was looking for an online sort of phpfiddle
And apparently regex breaks the online codepad so here it goes
<?php
$str = "Hello [World]";
preg_match_all("^\[(.*?)\]^",$str ,$res , PREG_PATTERN_ORDER);
echo $res[0];
?>
 
@PatsyIssa Cool. Okay, thanks for going through that.
 
How would you do it with red
 
8:36 AM
@RebolBot
parse "Hello [World]" [
   thru "["
   copy bracketed to "]"
]
print bracketed
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "Hello [World]" [thru "[" copy bracketed to "]"] print bracketed
World
 
Nice :D
brb meeting
 
@PatsyIssa So PARSE is an operation with two parameters, the first being the data you wish to parse (not just strings, we'll get to that later) and then the second is a block of "parse rules" in the "parse dialect". These rules are like the same language structure of Rebol/Red overall, but not evaluated... rather interpreted as a new language.
@PattyIssa Will ping later, because the next steps will impress...
 
8:47 AM
@GrahamChiu I think that you can't know when to stop reading from IRC. I though that can be handled but some small value of timeout, but that doesn't seem to work.
 
@ShixinZeng Reading the AltME web publishing... I'm sort of in the "don't use AltME, it's time to move on from that" camp... and noting some of Kaj's comments. Don't take them too hard, he is not really one to focus on the positive of things. When I made an interactive Rebol tutorial and wanted him to use it as a better TryRebol, he insisted on launching independently because he had problems running it in Konqueror on whatever Linux he was running.
 
@HostileFork back
 
Overall I think just about everyone is impressed with the Atronix work on this, and with publishing the source a day after doing it. So the best way to interpret that input is to get a system configuration like his, see if you can reproduce it, and if so get to the bottom of the problem if there is one. But from my point of view, we should be focusing on unfragmenting stuff and getting this all into the core Rebol as a series of patches with more eyes on them.
@PattyIssa Short meeting! :-) Okay, so yours worked, but now what if I told you that there were some number of bracketed strings, not one. I want you to print each one. How would you change your program?
 
@rebolek CRLF is a message terminator?
 
Would add a foreach loop that loops $res and prints out the value
	foreach ($res as $key => $value) {
		echo $value;
	}
 
8:53 AM
@PatsyIssa Okay, well, I just want us to look at the code all as one piece for comparison, so let's see the whole thing...
 
<?php
$str = "Hello [World]";
preg_match_all("^\[(.*?)\]^",$str ,$res , PREG_PATTERN_ORDER);
foreach ($res as $key => $value) {
echo $value;
}
?>
The entire block
 
@RebolBot
parse "If you used [Rebol] or [Red] it could be [Pretty]" [
    any [
        thru "["
        copy bracketed to "]"
        (print bracketed)
     ]
     to end
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "If you used [Rebol] or [Red] it could be [Pretty]" [any [thru "[" copy bracketed to "]" (print bracketed)] to end]
Rebol
Red
Pretty
== true
 
Hahaha it is pretty ^^
 
@PattyIssa In the parse "dialect", ANY means "ANY number of matches of the rule". It's like * in RegEx. SOME means "SOME number of non-zero matches of the rule"
And if there is code in parentheses, that is run when the rule preceding it matches.
@RebolBot
parse "abbabacccccbaaab" [
    some [
        ["a" | "b"] (print "As and Bs found as a group")
    |
        "c" (print "a C was found")
    ]
]
 
8:57 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "abbabacccccbaaab" [some [["a" | "b"] (print "As and Bs found as a group") | "c" (print "a C was found")]]
As and Bs found as a group
As and Bs found as a group
As and Bs found as a group
As and Bs found as a group
As and Bs found as a group
As and Bs found as a group
a C was found
a C was found
a C was found
a C was found
a C was found
As and Bs found as a group
As and Bs found as a group
As and Bs found as a group
As and Bs found as a group
 
Oops. I meant...
@RebolBot
parse "abbabacccccbaaab" [
    some [
        some ["a" | "b"] (print "As and Bs found as a group")
    |
        "c" (print "a C was found")
    ]
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "abbabacccccbaaab" [some [some ["a" | "b"] (print "As and Bs found as a group") | "c" (print "a C was found")]]
As and Bs found as a group
a C was found
a C was found
a C was found
a C was found
a C was found
As and Bs found as a group
== true
 
@PatsyIssa Do you understand my bug in the first one? :-)
 
Was missing a some
:P
 
Right, so I got a match that ran the paren on each A and each B it found, instead of matching after the whole group
 
8:59 AM
but the As and Bs will only print once until the C print was found prints correct ?
 
@GrahamChiu I'm not sure about CRLF. When connecting to server, I get five messages (on different networks this may vary), some of them ending with CRLF, some don't. I hope to work on it more during weekend.
 
@PatsyIssa Some doesn't print anything, the trick here is that the parenthesized code just runs IF the match gets to that point. It's not a feature of SOME, it's a feature of the whole dialect. Parenthesized code runs if you get to that point... that's all.
 
IRC messages are always lines of characters terminated with a CR-LF
(Carriage Return - Line Feed) pair, and these messages SHALL NOT
exceed 512 characters in length, counting all characters including
the trailing CR-LF. Thus, there are 510 characters maximum allowed
for the command and its parameters. There is no provision for
continuation of message lines. See section 6 for more details about
current implementations.
 
@RebolBot
parse "aaaabccc" [
    some "a"
    opt ["b" (print "found the optional B!")]
    some "c"
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aaaabccc" [some "a" opt ["b" (print "found the optional B!")] some "c"]
found the optional B!
== true
 
9:01 AM
@RebolBot
parse "aaaaccc" [
    some "a"
    opt ["b" (print "found the optional B!")]
    some "c"
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aaaaccc" [some "a" opt ["b" (print "found the optional B!")] some "c"]
== true
 
so this matches the b in between a's and c's right ?
 
@rgchris is that the announce room from altme as a feed? Very nice!
 
@PatsyIssa So you see, it's not that SOME or OPT have anything to do with the parenthesized code. The code just runs if the matcher as it runs along happens to match the rule. What would happen if instead of opt ["b" (print "found the optional B!")] it said opt ["b"] (print "found the optional B!")
 
@johnk Indeed it is.
 
9:03 AM
@rgchris great work :) Add it to the room and we have one-way comms from altme finally!
 
I'll perhaps wait until Fork is asleep (perhaps never) and give it a wee try in here :)
 
@HostileFork would it be valid syntax? and if it is i m guessing if it does find b it will print the message.
 
Anyway, here's shadwolf/oldes' irc client trac.assembla.com/shadwolforge/browser/rkini-light.r?rev=81
for rebol2
 
@PatsyIssa Well, it's outside the optional rule at that point. You reach it whether the rule matches or not. Since it's optional... this will print whether you see a B or not... the matcher says "okay, B was optional, there wasn't one. What's next?" The next thing it sees is the parenthesized code, it does it no matter what.
@RebolBot
parse "aaaaccc" [
    some "a"
    opt ["b"]
    (print "found the optional B!")
    some "c"
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aaaaccc" [some "a" opt ["b"] (print "found the optional B!") some "c"]
found the optional B!
== true
 
9:05 AM
@GrahamChiu there is also this which means we could use file ops to read from irc
 
@rgchris How about posting into the Altme announce group now ?
 
@GrahamChiu You mean going in the other direction?
 
@rgchris No .. I mean opening an altme client, and posting this news there in their announce channel
 
@GrahamChiu Thanks, I have sources for my own R2 IRC bot, but ports in R3 work bit different.
 
@PatsyIssa So it makes a pretty big difference because the OPT is saying "what follows is an optional rule that may apply". If the rule says "you must match B" and then has parenthesized code, then the code only runs if B matches. But if you put the code outside the rule, it just runs after the optional match is done. Make sense?
 
9:07 AM
@GrahamChiu I don't have a functioning AltME client—feel free to do so on my behalf :)
 
@HostileFork yup logical ^^
 
@rebolbot delete
 
@rgchris Done. So, let's see how long it takes
 
@RebolBot
rule: ["a" | "b"]
parse "abbbaqabcccab" [
    some [
        rule
    |
        "q" (append rule [| "c"])
    ]
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> rule: ["a" | "b"] parse "abbbaqabcccab" [some [rule | "q" (append rule [| "c"])]]
== true
 
9:09 AM
@PatsyIssa Okay, there's one to ponder. :-) What's that one doing?
 
@GrahamChiu The feed is updated every hour (cron)—but it's already showing up here!
 
Ok. 1 hour or less it is then
 
@HostileFork first it tries to match a's and b's if it runs across a q it adds c's to the matching
 
@RebolBot
rule: ["a" | "b"]
parse "abbbaabcccab" [
    some [
        rule
    |
        "q" (append rule [| "c"])
    ]
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> rule: ["a" | "b"] parse "abbbaabcccab" [some [rule | "q" (append rule [| "c"])]]
== false
JJPA, Bangalore, India
3.9k 3 8 31
 
9:11 AM
But presumably we can add a new command that will post into one of the altme groups with the rebol.info client acting as our proxy - or not. Never used the linux client
 
@PatsyIssa Right. So no Q, then if you see a C, no match. :-) But let's say you were working with binary data, some set of bytes...
 
@GrahamChiu No idea on that one—can you do that with the rebol.info binary? Also, was holding off adding the feed—didn't want interrupt (moreso) the introduction...
 
@RebolBot
parse #{FFFFFFDECAFBAD00000000} [
    3 #{FF}
    copy data to #{00}
    (print reverse data)
    to end
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse #{FFFFFFDECAFBAD00000000} [3 #{FF} copy data to #{00} (print reverse data) to end]
#{ADFBCADE}
== true
 
@rgchris oh ... well, I posted it as being done. Can't undo my post now!
 
9:13 AM
@PatsyIssa What did that do? :-) (@JJPA welcome, feel free to follow along...)
 
@GrahamChiu Fine, sorry @HostileFork @PatsyIssa — incoming new feed messages. Will be brief but noisy...
 
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
posted on February 11, 2014 by Bo

The February 2014 issue of ODROID Magazine has an article on Rebol 3 running on Android, starting on Page 28, plus an edited version of the beginning of NickA's excellent LearnRebol tutorial.  Check it out here:  http://magazine.odroid.com

posted on February 14, 2014 by Bo

My cameras (Smoothcam) now serve H264 (via SMB) and MJPEG (via HTTP port 8080) simultaneously, and can also simultaneously serve individual JPEG stills through HTTP port 80. It can serve the H264 at one resolution and frame rate and the MJPEG stream and JPEGs at a different resolution and framerate. And I still have up to 35% of the CPU idle.

posted on February 14, 2014 by Bo

I just got word from HardKernel that the ODROID Magazine PDF for January 2014 has been downloaded ~8000 times. That's pretty good readership for a new magazine, I'd say. We're expecting a larger number than that for the February issue.  The March issue is due out in three weeks. :-)

posted on February 16, 2014 by ddharing

We have published our REBOL 3 View builds for Linux and Windows at http://atronixengineering.com/downloads.html. There is full Linux support for graphics and the clipboard as well as a number of bug fixes in the core interpreter. This is the result of our collaboration with Saphirion since last summer. Our source code has also been pushed to the Saphirion repository to be tested and included i

posted on February 18, 2014 by SWhite

I am becoming confused, perhaps because I am not following developments closely enough.  How is this:  http://atronixengineering.com/downloads.html  different from this:  http://development.saphirion.com/rebol/r3gui/  and is there documentation available?  Thank you.

 
@HostileFork sorry for the wait @ work x.x
 
@PatsyIssa Don't get fired on our account! But you might find, once you learn a bit of Rebol/Red, it's a secret weapon. You might be more productive and say you worked on something all month when it took you a day and people would believe you. :-)
(Disclaimer: Rebol and Red in no way encourage lying to your employers.)
 
hahahahahah
Working with google analytics api so meh they can wait :P
 
9:20 AM
@HostileFork sure thanks
 
@JJPA Looks like you've been on StackOverflow a while... what leads you to the curious explorations into chat?
 
@HostileFork b/w still looking at the last example
 
posted on February 19, 2014 by GrahamC

Announces here are now automatically cross-posted to the SO chat group via a RSS feed.  And all web-public groups are now being mirrored on http://www.rebol.info/altme ...

 
@rgchris Cool but how do we stop the... non-announcements from being posted? Can that be moderated somehow? I think a good test of "not an announcement" is if it starts with "I am becoming confused" :-)
 
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 614 so chat away!
 
9:25 AM
@rgchris For starters one might whitelist the people who know how to use Announcements (?)
 
@HostileFork By convention you're only supposed to post to that group with an announcement—there's a separate channel for replies.
 
announcing to the world you're confused is not ideal
 
@HostileFork Could do, doesn't look like it'll be a constant problem. Will see. Could also try and add a source of non-AltME announcements too :)
 
So Kaj is now back on SO chat by virtue of the announce group!
 
@GrahamChiu Perhaps an announcement (or reminder) concerning the conventions of announcements so that they are presented more formally? URLs (as you can see) are linkified, so will be visible in the announcement if displayed prominently.
 
9:30 AM
@rgchris anyway, good work
@HostileFork I suspect a blacklist would be easier
 
Just wondering, if the title should not mention something like AltMe Announce ... as some ppl might want to announce something too, wondering how do they get to the Announce channel, later on being disappointed, that they need to use AltMe :-)
 
@pekr Nup, not promoting the chat-tool-that-shall-not-be-named!
It's enough that it links to the reflector.
 
@pekr It says it's a feed
 
I think @earl raised the point which is, let people use what they want; mediums are not exclusive. Forcing everyone to use the same tools isn't the answer, it's just to make sure anything important gets to a place where you can find it.
 
I wonder if any other SO chat room has as much cool stuff going on as we do ? :)
 
9:36 AM
It is quite reverse - not promoting AltMe, just to be clear where does the info come from, the same as tickets from CureCode and GitHub - both clearly state the source ...
 
black-lists on announces: This doesn't happen that often (come visit the Rebol4 world, it's good, you'll see). Sometimes, someone makes a booboo.
 
@GrahamChiu I think we are the only group where the chatters are central to the language development. Even on IRC I think that's rare, I don't know how often Guido Van Rossum hangs around #python or Matz on #ruby or Linus on #linux.
 
stop being hostile to AltMe!
 
I agree with Pekr. The hostility towards AltME is strange. The tool is designed to be a darknet and is very good at it.
 
@pekr AltME would be more of an asset if it were open source and a research lab for Rebol; I think at the minimum it should be opened so that some kind of learning is going on by use of it. And now, it is conceivable to see an R3-GUI port. If that were the direction, it would be generating education and feeding back into the dev loop... it's just not the case right now.
 
9:38 AM
@Henrik I think it's an odd way of being hostile when we are actively bringing content across
 
I can't take that nonsense, sorry
If you want to be consistent, it should state AltME:, period
 
@GrahamChiu I assume he's referring to @rgchris "chat that shall not be named" remark
 
just the same as it states CureCode: GitHub:
 
@HostileFork oh .. that's just JK Rowling humor
 
no need to even name it Announce .... just some stuff happening on regular darknet channel
 
9:39 AM
I tend to use my phone mostly these days .. no way to use altme except ancient laptop now
 
@pekr They live in the same application on my desktop, my tablet, my phone, etc. Can't link to AltME.
 
it was great in its day ... but a bit retro now
 
@GrahamChiu "The chat-tool-that-shall-not-be-named"... I understand the frustration is that AltME is apparently hard to access, so efforts to make an open source solution should be done.
 
@Henrik well, we started this several times .. but it's stalled
 
It is not about using AltMe or not, it is about this channel being an aggregate of multiple sources. And I would like those sources being clearly named and that is my point. While CureCode and Git are named, then we got strange Announce, which might be misleading for others, as some user might want to announce something too, wondering, where does the Announce feed come from?
 
9:41 AM
@rgchris Despite my "please let's stop sending new people to AltME, that's not the answer" perspective, I think it should be called AltMe: whatever. I think that's fine. We mirror one channel... the big announcements, and trust them to curate it like a conservative Twitter feed.
 
Or is that multiple source Announce aggregator? Or AltME only?
 
@GrahamChiu I think we're doing it wrong. It should be more or less 1-2 guys digging at it for a couple of months, possibly with donations. Design by commitee won't work.
 
Multiple source is something I am considering.
 
aha, good to know :-)
But there would have to be multiple rules for Announce stuff, like e.g. Google groups etc. Announce thread, etc.
 
@rgchris Wonder if we can get full names across instead of just nicks?
 
9:43 AM
Right now you AltME-ers have the floor.
@GrahamChiu Are full names stored on AltME?
 
@rgchris nope :)
They are stored in organic memory
 
@HostileFork got to grind a bit for work cheers on taking the time to help out, i ll be back after some research ^^
 
The Amish won't use motor vehicles, they drew a line somewhere. There are Rabbis who won't use electronics on Sundays so they have to take people with them to push elevator buttons for them. I think it's nuts but the question is are we better off saying go away you bearded hat-wearing looney-tunes or finding ways to bridge to the eccentricities, so you can trade that which has value despite the disagreements?
 
@GrahamChiu I'll have the bot send you an IM when a new announcement is made, you only need reply with the name :) The GrahamChiu API!
 
@rgchris I can write a CGI script to do the translation if you like
 
9:45 AM
@PatsyIssa Please do, I was just picking a random example of a cool thing that you might be able to appreciate due to previous things you've seen, but there's a bunch more interesting stuff... if you find the time to learn it...
 
@GrahamChiu Would rather mine the data from AltME—is there any way to make that happen? Even if informally?
That way it's opt-in.
 
@HostileFork And the Saudi university that refused to let the resus team in to treat the young woman with the heart attack because the other women were not in full Islamic dress
@rgchris NAFAIK
 
Checklist, whatever...
 
@rgchris Let's wait for the dust storm to settle
@rebolek I'm not familiar with IRC. Will you have to poll a port to read messages, and if there are none, just timeout and then close the port?
 
@GrahamChiu That's what I wanted to do, but even if I set very low timeout it seemed that the port was still waiting....and waiting...and waiting...
Actually, I tried it about half an hour ago and it's still waiting.
No error, just blinking cursor.
 
9:52 AM
@rebolek Very odd ..it should error and timeout
 
@GrahamChiu That's what I thought. I have to look into that more deeply.
 
good luck then
 
@Henrik It has some merit as a darknet, but as such there is much there that is locked away, hidden from view—some forever—that had it been open may well have been of more value then and now. The move to open tools has raised our profile somewhat, we shouldn't go back.
 
@GrahamChiu Thanks :) I hope there's a solution to this.
 
@GrahamChiu It's a spectrum, I don't think AltME is killing people. But I do think that unless it goes open source and starts contributing back to Rebol3, even its presumed value should be questioned. It's good for die-hards IF the die-hards are using a Rebol system feeding back into the Rebol ecology, real dogfooding (or "drinking one's own wine" as Carl prefers for the Rebol projects)
 
9:56 AM
Open-facing.
 
It's okay if it has private messaging, if that's how people want to do private messaging, if the content has a point of being private.
But how much of what we do here needs to be private? We have Skype if we want to, and then it's just between you and the person you're talking to (and the NSA, and Microsoft...)
 
@HostileFork And presumably, eventually, Wikileaks...
 
@rgchris Permalinking doesn't seem to quite work for me with the anchor tags on the AltME posts...
 
We need a tool that is highly dedicated to REBOL and is made in REBOL/Red and allows for such privacy if needed. An OpenME could be more open, but should allow for darknets that are as private as AltME. Open and private worlds come to mind. Even secret, unlisted worlds.

AltME simply has features that are completely unmatched by any other chat tool, I've ever used, and I'm still surprised by this.
 

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