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9:00 AM
I think the entire post is fine as is. People are going to fall on one or the other side of thinking it was the right call, but I think everyone basically understands what happened, what was decided, and the mod team's reasons for doing so.
 
Zoe
@RyanM I've watched it four or five times now, and it's hilarious every single time ^^"
 
@magisch But! But! Those evil mods!
 
There appears to be some confusion amongst people who did not read the entirety of the paragraph starting with "We respect and..."
But all the information is certainly there for the reading, and clearly written.
 
@RyanM Probably that is my fault, I didn't make it bold.
 
Zoe
@CodyGray Yeah, especially that Cody Gary or whatever. I hear he's the worst
 
9:06 AM
Code Gary is usually how I see it rendered
 
@CodyGray You gotta try harder, your menacing evil cabal look is not working that well
 
Huh, that's weird. Multiple people have told me I look scary!
 
@Zoe Yes, and I sympathise with the guy. I also like collecting ducks
 
very scary
 
Zoe
:D
I actually don't have a single duck. I do have a penguin though
 
9:07 AM
shog was very scary
 
Fun fact, the ducks are perfectly normal on average. They have two eyes. On average.
 
angry shog put the fear of $unspecified_deity into you
 
I can't ever remember being scared of Shog...
 
He once banned me from chat for two weeks
 
Let me guess, the scary part is that you deserved it?
 
9:10 AM
in retrospect I did
 
@Zoe I'm pretty sure it's Code Gray that's the mean one.
 
Interrupting to bring you this important message: The election is in progress, and 23706 users have already voted! I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
 
 
4 hours later…
12:58 PM
Did Shree drop out?
 
Thanks! Missed that
 
And here we were concerned it might be too "in your face" to feature this on the sidebar :-)
 
Banner Blindness is a thing
 
Yeah, I must have it bad. That was a very clear write-up Cody. Thanks
 
1:08 PM
It was a team effort!
 
I remember the election you got elected in cody
 
I won't ask if you voted for me :-p
 
I totally did though
;)
I also voted for bhargav and makyen
 
All excellent choices.
 
I did know y'all from meta beforehand so that helped me decide
 
1:12 PM
@magisch I feel that's the best way to vote.
 
Definitely. Put in all of the Meta loudmouths as mods.
 
@VLAZ Sadly, not one likely to be used by anywhere near a majority of voters.
 
The questionnaire has been questioned itself. I think judging nominee by its actions is better. It's also harder but still.
 
@CodyGray I like to not think of myself as a loudmouth, personally.
 
@RyanM OK, quietmouths, too!
 
1:13 PM
So, just make the 0.015% mods?
 
@VLAZ I really like Catija's idea of more stats...I spent so much of my character limit on stats, entirely because I have a low candidate score due to my rep.
And I contribute in other ways, not just asking/answering
 
It's a crazy idea... Make the people who are doing the moderation work into mods.
 
@RyanM Your stats are really amazing
 
@RyanM And yet, no matter what stats we put, far too many people are just going to short-circuit on rep.
 
@Dharman Thank you, as are yours :-)
 
1:15 PM
I like how Dharman drew some comments that insinuated that downvotes and close votes are bad. I'm not sure what these users expect mods to do.
 
What is my candidate score?
 
@AnnZen Wow! You have a maximum candidate score of 40! Alas, the nomination period is over. Hope to see your candidacy next election!
 
Many current mods have much lowers stats that the current candidates
 
@ElectionBot Thank you ^^
 
@AnnZen My pleasure
 
1:16 PM
@AnnZen *claps*
 
error - AI not installed
 
I've joined the club :D chat.stackoverflow.com/…
 
@CodyGray The good flipside of that is then they cease being meta loudmouths because they're busy
 
@magisch Something seems to have gone wrong at least once!
 
hah
It's nice being here again for a little while and catching up
Like a time machine
 
1:19 PM
I very much like having you around
 
It was a pleasure to meet you, I don't think we've chatted before (before the other day, that is)
 
One of the good people from the old days
 
though I've seen your posts here and there
 
Welcome to the election chat room! The election is in progress, and 24,125 (2.89% of 835,162 eligible) users have already voted! I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
 
@VLAZ Thanks :)
 
1:35 PM
Do we have any of the old people from the good days?
 
who watzit now? shakes cane
@RyanM To be fair your rep isn't that low
you have comfortably over the minimum necessary IMO to run (10k, the real moderation tools)
 
Ah, but without being able to see site analytics, can you really be trusted to moderate anything?
 
we have had at least one moderator who was elected with less (not including the ones from the first year or two because probably very few users were over 10k at the time... and I wasn't around)
@CodyGray I might say no, if I didn't regularly hear people w/ access to it say how useless it is
 
(Spoiler Alert: Yesโ€”I've only ever looked at those maybe five times in the history of ever. Plus, mods get access to those after being elected anyway.)
 
and anyway, I'll be able to tell for myself by late november/early december or so when I eventually hit 20k
 
1:38 PM
You need 25k *slides goal post imperceptibly*
 
At this rate I'll actually hit 10k on MSE before 20k on SO
Oh, that's right
well, then I'll get back to you in 3 years
 
It's a fascinating privilege, the 25k thing, but really quite useless.
 
Fascinating in the sense of, why does it exist?
 
Back to rep and other stats being of interest for mods, I'm super stoked about Catija's interest in re-designing the mod score to take actual mod activities into account, as well as the broader interest in gating more powers behind your actions rather than your rep
 
Among other things. Now, where's that Meta post asking about 30k privileges...
@TylerH Yeah - you only get to be able to review close votes when you've reviewed 100 close votes. Or did I get something confused?
 
1:41 PM
I think you have to have 100 of your questions closed in order to unlock the privilege to review close votes
 
Can someone tell me more about the moderator election/
Please :D
 
What is the election?
 
An election is where users nominate themselves as candidates for the role of diamond โ™ฆ moderator, and users with at least 150 reputation can vote for them.
 
What do moderators do?
 
Elected โ™ฆ moderators are essential to keeping the site clean, fair, and friendly by enforcing the Code of Conduct. They are volunteers who are granted additional privileges to handle situations regular users can't, like investigating sockpuppet accounts, suspending users, migrating questions to any network site, and performing post redactions.
 
1:42 PM
How do I vote?
 
If you have at least 150 reputation, you can rank the candidates in your preferred order in the election. If you want to make an informed decision on who to vote for, you should read the candidates' answers to the questionnaire, and also look at examples of their participation on Meta and how they conduct themselves.
 
Who is the best mod?
 
@CodyGray
 
You can't vote for me; I'm already a mod!
 
I understand, I read all of these. I want to know more
 
1:43 PM
What else do you want to know? Feel free to ask.
 
Should I be very active as a Moderator, will I be ever benchmarked etc...
Also, regarding the election, how do we gain popularity, I mean stack is huge!!!
 
SO is a very busy site, so we generally expect that moderators will be pretty active. But we also understand that "Real Life" interferes sometimes, especially since it's a volunteer position.
It's been kinda established that you should spend at least 30 minutes a day (or however that averages out for you per-week) handling flags as a moderator.
But some have questioned whether that's enough, given the volume of flags that SO gets.
 
@CodyGray lol.. was that intended? medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326291#code-gray
 
There are no "benchmarks" for mods. I'm not even sure what that means. There is a "dashboard" showing stats for all of the elected mods (e.g., comments deleted, posts deleted, flags handled, etc.), but that's only visible to other mods and mostly just for our own information. We don't "grade" or "rank" each other. It's not a competition.
 
@CodyGray Does it count pre-election activities too?
 
1:47 PM
Theoretically, it would on the "all-time" tab, but... that hasn't worked in a long time. Crashes when you try to load the page. Some of the DB queries time out.
The working tabs are basically "day", "week", "month", and "quarter".
Also, some activities can only be done by mods. We don't have any non-mods messaging users, for example :-)
 
Do you think that being a mod, teaches proactivity?
 
@thechaoticpanda Yeah, you aren't going to win because you know everyone! That's why we were just talking about ways to improve the statistics and "candidate score" to make it more obvious who are the qualified candidates.
 
@thechaoticpanda It certainly exposes you to stuff
but learning from it is on the individual mod
 
But you can increase your visibility by participating in user-level moderation tasks (like reviewing) and also in discussions on the Meta Stack Overflow site.
Proactivity? Nah. SO mods are mostly reactive.
We don't get involved except where bad things have already happened. Otherwise, we try to trust the community to manage itself.
 
exception handlers
 
1:50 PM
Yup. I don't usually want my exception handlers being proactive :-)
 
Causing exceptions just to handle them
how else do you think Bhargav handles so many flags?!
 
Hmmmm....
 
It looks like this user is going to cause problems, Imma just suspend them now
 
Well, that's not exactly what I mean, the exposure on behavior would help, in that sense.
 
You learn plenty about interpersonal conflicts
 
1:52 PM
Yes!
 
Whether you want to or not
 
As a manager, I would love that since I work remotely
 
Difference is, we have better tools at our disposal than you do as a manager. You can't just suspend or delete problematic employees.
Smaller SE sites are a bit different... Because they're smaller, their mods can take more time actually addressing conflicts between users. SO mods don't really do that.
If you can't be trusted to participate here without causing trouble, we're mostly just going to show you the door.
 
Oh boy lol
 
On that note, this discussion prompted me to close a tab with a user's profile. I was suspecting they might be going to commit voting fraud, but I can't wait for them to do so. I will react once they actually commit it.
 
1:54 PM
(With a warning and some guidance first, of course!)
 
For how long have you been a mod Cody?
 
Since, uh... 2017, I think?
Before that, many years ago, I was a mod on another smaller SE site for a short time while it was in "beta".
 
Baking.SE
 
Anyhow, thanks guys for chit chatting, I'll read a bit more about and see if I volunteer. Thanks for your time.
 
@thechaoticpanda Nominations are already closed for this election (and I don't think you have enough reputation to be eligible to nominate yourself anyway), but you can plan for it in an upcoming election!
 
1:58 PM
Is there a site CookingBooks.SE? I feel that would get a lot of off-topic questions
 
We usually have elections roughly once a year.
@Dharman I cannot imagine a site that would get more off-topic questions than StackOverflow.com
 
I don't think you can beat MSE percentage-wise, though.
 
Not sure about that. You just see all of them on MSE because the mods there don't delete them.
MSO gets programming questions all the time, but they don't last more than 5 minutes.
My record is 3 seconds.
 
MSO mostly gets lost souls unable to post in SO...
 
I just looked, it's not even close. MSE gets way more.
 
2:03 PM
Except... they're not supposed to be able to post on MSO if they're blocked from posting on SO.
@RyanM Where are you looking?
 
10k tools, recently deleted
 
Yeah, MSE gets more
 
The majority of MSE posts are off-topic. It's quite bad.
 
HAPPY INTERNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY!
 
@RyanM The custom reasons are often fun to read, though.
 
2:09 PM
@CodyGray If by "fun" you mean "frustrating, because a bunch of them are totally invalid and there's no way to find the posts to flag them" yes :-p
 
Zoe
@DanielWiddis I DON'T LIKE THIS DAY, CAN WE PLEASE SHIFT OVER FROM IT?
 
but also they are amusing, too.
 
There's a very fine line between amusing and frustrating.
 
You've never agreed so much with a statement before in your life?
 
2:12 PM
nah, I was about to rant about shree vs stephen raunch situation.
 
"vs"?
 
though, I do agree that line is very thin
hm, versus is not the right word, more like "in consideration to"
 
OK... I'm not seeing the connection between the two.
Their names both start with "S"?
 
indeed, one has commited a codified offense while the other merely a "respect", honour" or "unwritten rules" one (trying to find the right way to say it).
 
I think Andras is all over that rant position.
 
2:15 PM
who is Andras?
 
a generally very poised person
 
The lime-green colored person who posted this answer and this question
 
@FรฉlixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier It's Rauch not raunch. Would you want us to call Smokey "Smonkey"?
 
Ugh, this Microsoft tech is pestering me for "interactive voice feedback" on a ticket that I already closed weeks ago
Just send me a survey, I'm not talking to you over the phone about how good or bad your service was
 
2:19 PM
@AdrianMole I'd have no problem with that? I'll try to correct it, the fact they never even joined this chat room makes it harder to see the correct spelling with @name
 
Yeah - that silence seems odd.
 
@AdrianMole Better than ranch?
 
That would make our beloved spam-hunting bot into "Smnkey".
 
@AdrianMole it's not really odd to me, it mostly fits the general "I don't really care" character they seem to vigorously incarnate.
 
They have posted one single piece of commentary:
@AndrasDeak, sorry I have caused so much consternation. Mondays are the busiest day of the week, and I am not a fast writer. Was there some philosophical point in this year's questionnaire that you did not find at least somewhat covered in my 2018 questionnaire? — Stephen Rauch Oct 19 at 4:19
 
Zoe
2:21 PM
@AdrianMole Stonkey?
 
which is also so, so condescending. like, seriously, that's your answer to seeing many dozens of folks being ranting?
 
@Zoe Spam flags go brrr
 
It almost seems like a joke
 
(they also did not respond to my follow-up question)
 
I don't put much trust into a candidate that seems lazy enough to not answer questionnaire and never even joined chat so that we can ask questions.
 
2:23 PM
Or anyone else's.
Have raised no flags since the election started. (Can I say that?)
 
I think they're taking the Jeff Atwood quote too literally: The ideal moderator does as little as possible.
 
@CodyGray abuuuuse
 
@CodyGray I Hereby Authorize The Great You To Say Thatโ„ข
 
I mean, I think it's legit.
You put yourself up for scrutiny.
 
It's worth mentioning.
 
2:24 PM
And how freakin hard would it be to be active once or twice while you're running for election?
One flag would have been enough that I wouldn't have felt like I couldn't say it...
 
One could, in theory, determine how many useful flags a candidate has raised since their nomination (without mod privileges).
 
How so?
 
looking at the numbers evolve, I guess?
 
Candidacy is also time consuming, maybe they were so busy they didn't have time to cast flags?
 
Assuming that one wrote down the original number, I assume
 
2:25 PM
though, it'd be gard to differentiate between flags that were accepted vs raised & accepted since a particular moment in time
 
@Dharman Speaking to the people, you mean?
 
yes, answering comments
 
lol, this is a joke right?
they did not answer a single comment from anyone because they circumvented that altogether
 
@FรฉlixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier Well, technically one can simply ignore those comments just as well as one can ignore comments directed at them on meta.
 
@FรฉlixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier Yes. (cc @RyanM).
 
Zoe
2:28 PM
laughs in 70+ comments
 
@Zoe Some of those were yours. Do those still count? Seems like cheating!
 
@CodyGray I wonder how that would play out if someone is called out on meta for handling something wrongly. Hiding is not a good option.
 
*will play out when
 
Yeah
No mod has yet to not make a mistake and be called out on Meta shortly after the elections
In fact, it doesn't even have to be a mistake
It just has to be not what the flagger expected
 
2:31 PM
yeah :P
 
Zoe
@CodyGray There were a number of deleted comments too though. Not sure if 70+ is a conservative guess or right up under the count :')
 
@Zoe I have to say, though, reading that thread made me feel like I had a good handle on what I was getting in a candidate. I then ranked you above at least one other candidate.
 
Zoe
^^
 
ohnoes, I have to go do actual work o/
 
@Zoe Oof. Conservative. 95 comments total, including deleted ones.
 
2:34 PM
and I need to sleep. Fortunately I am not, in fact, doing actual work today.
 
Zoe
Yikes
Did not feel like that many comments got nuked
 
@Zoe I agree with Ryan. The fact that you responded and in the way you did, gave you a few +'s on my scale too.
 
I think we could have deleted all but the Shog9 comment without changing anything
 
I don't think so. Pretending a user is above anyone else is a slippery slope.
 
You also liked the "Chicago Street Gangsta Kiddos Language" one?
Aww, that was deleted by a CM...
 
2:37 PM
@CodyGray Liked? Yes, that was amazing. Thought was useful? Heck no.
 
hmm
 
Public service announcement: The election is happening at the moment, and 24,275 (2.91% of 835,180 eligible) users have already voted! I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
 
Zoe
now that is fancy
 
How many people have voted for Zoe?
 
Based on the number of Constituent badges awarded, 24,275 (2.91% of 835,180 eligible) users have voted so far.
 
Zoe
2:45 PM
yay, I won in a landslide :p
 
there are other valuable things do do during a landslide, but I guess you keeping focused on the election while all else falls from the sky is great on you :P
client postponed the meeting...
 
Makes sense; I heard there's a landslide
 
It's slightly annoying to me that the election page doesn't save my ordering preference for the people I haven't voted for
 
@TylerH Why does it matter whether I'm your first or last non-vote?
 
You're ranking the folks you aren't even voting for? Brutal!
2
 
2:49 PM
@DanielWiddis bold of you to assume I'm not voting for you :-P
@Spevacus I'm ruthless, what can I say?
 
@TylerH I think any sane person would not make me their first choice. I ranked myself second, even. :D
 
Daniel "Humble" Widdis
 
lol
 
@DanielWiddis You are my third choice
 
2:52 PM
Sorry for not making you my second, but I think you need to do more as a non-mod first.
 
All this talk of making people seconds... Are y'all planning a duel?
 
this is way up there, with never gonna give you up, in the meme worthy songs league
 
Zoe
One might even say we'll never give the meme up
 
2:56 PM
@Zoe I think it's time to let that down. Desert it.
 
Zoe
@DanielWiddis But now you're gonna say goodbye
 
The amazing thing I realized the other day is, people listen to that song in an entirely non-ironic way.
 
wait what? who?
 
Yeah, Rick is going out on tour or something.
 
Zoe
2:57 PM
Rick has more songs than just that one though :p
 
He's definitely performing that one, though
 
Speaking of tours, I'm seriously debating buying tickets to this
 
@DanielWiddis My goodness that URL is ugly
 
when is the next phase
 
The election is currently in the final voting phase, ending at 2021-10-26 20:00:00Z (in 4 days).
 
2:59 PM
Wow, they are actually not astronomically expensive!
I mean, they're still expensive... But somehow less than I expected.
 
Public service announcement: The election is happening at the moment, and 24,313 (2.91% of 835,179 eligible) users have already voted! I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
 
3:43 PM
@ElectionBot at the current voting rate, what is the forecast total number of votes?
watches ElectionBot do math
 
It's not my job to please you, no.
 
Zoe
We'll land at roughly 30-34k
 
3:55 PM
I have a bet against Dharman on that one.
 
Zoe
Looking at the numbers, I'm not really sure anymore. Gonna need to make some graphs :p
 
I like graphs
 
Zoe
 
@ElectionBot could we just insert a diamond into our username
 
No one is able to edit the diamond symbol (โ™ฆ) into their username.
 
:(
 
You could call yourself "Smitop - diamond", if you want..
 
it doesn't even let you use any unicode symbols, so Smitop โ– or Smitop โงฑ won't work either
 
4:31 PM
@Zoe that is er... trippy :)
 
 
2 hours later…
6:48 PM
๐Ÿšฝ
 
7:15 PM
๐Ÿงป
@KevinB Incidentally, I'm using your profile to test my user script :)
 
Does it automatically "empty the cache" of all toilets?
 
I call it flushStackDesign..
 
8:10 PM
wiping data
 
@Zoe I made a graph!
user image
2
 
@Nick Oooh, nice wave.
Eyeballing it, it looks like an exponential decay. ~80 peak day 1, ~40 peak day 2, ~20 peak day 3.
 
mhm, I didn't include any data from 18th, nor a chunk from the 19th, (because the very early voting isn't really representative) but enough to get an idea of the trend
 
8:25 PM
I wonder if there will be a weekend peak from the people who only SO on weekends.
would be interesting to include all the data but plot on a logarithmic Y axis
 
I counted the most recent 12k votes
which shows quite how many happen in the first day...
 
@DanielWiddis There will be peaks corresponding to typical time of day use over the weekend, but usage is generally substantially lower on the weekend. So far, it looks very close to what I'd expect. Higher peaks early on (which also corresponds to higher daily usage), and then a decay over time as people who have already voted don't return (as is to be expected).
 
@Makyen Right, but it's not the level of usage on the weekend so much as whether those people weren't on during the week. I recall an earlier blog entry about the tag usage on weekend vs. weekday and the clear indications many people only use SO at work, while others only use it for their weekend projects.
 
@DanielWiddis Yes, there are potentially interesting correlations.
 
Zoe
@Nick <3
 
8:41 PM
I'm sorry to interfere, but... The election is underway, and 24,677 (2.95% of 835,221 eligible) users have already voted! I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
 
shush, you
 
(โ‰–_โ‰– )
 
I just interacted with a date control where the format is unironically 10/22/2021
 
9:00 PM
you mean.... it was american
 
9:13 PM
The 22nd month of 2021 is the 10th month of 2022, no? So that normalized as 10/10/2022
 
9:54 PM
At work, I always push hard for everyone to always use ISO dates and call it my contribution to "inclusion".
 
10:24 PM
does it make a between voting for 4 candidates (and leaving out 1) and voting for 5 (and leaving out nobody?)
 
You do not need to rank all the candidates. You should only rank the ones that you wish to vote for for moderator.
"Unranked candidates will not receive your vote."
 
@CodyGray so does it make a difference if nobody receives my vote vs my last choice receiving my vote?
in terms of changing the election outcome
 
Yes, it could theoretically make a difference.
Hmm, actually... No?
I think the last vote probably would not matter.
The second-to-last could, though.
I don't know. I prefer not to try to outsmart or overthink the voting system.
 
@Smitop The fifth choice will not change the outcome of the election. You only need to rank 4 candidates
 
10:35 PM
Guys, new moderators will make a dinner party for their voters?)
 
yeah sure, party in this room
๐Ÿฐ
 
Let's stole and eat cody's pumpkin? xD
Pumpkin porridge is a very cool dish for the winter time
 
Usually, the new moderators are far too busy with flags to have a party
 
Dharman have already worked with flags with Khufu and Genghis-Khan)
 
@Smitop The last place candidate won't make a difference in the election outcome. However, since the vote totals are made public (in aggregate) you could in theory send a signal to any candidate you left off completely vs. ranked as the 5th acceptable choice.
@CodyGray Do they have a "capture the flag" party?
 
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