last day (170 days later) » 
20:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

10:00 PM
In the rare event that we did need some LISP, Haskell, or whatever expertise, we could just find a user who had that expertise and consult with them.
 
> browser framework: jQuery
 
It would not be necessary that they be a moderator or have any special privileges, since whatever we'd be doing with that domain expertise would be to improve content already visible on the site.
 
To be clear I am just talking about what would seem nice to me in terms of tech coverage, not in terms of the mod team needing somebody in order to perform some moderator duty
 
@Scratte haven't looked into LISP, but apparently Haskell is especially suited to model set theory so it's heavily mathematical.
@CodyGray still, either I'm wrong or mods frequently make technical calls when they can. Broadening the collective skill set has to be a plus.
 
I don't think I would say that mods "frequently" make technical calls.
If anything, I'd say we try to avoid it.
 
10:04 PM
Aren't all functional programming languages mathematical?
 
Aren't all programming languages mathematical?
 
if you peel back enough layers
 
I suppose they can all add and multiply ;)
 
Would that also make onions mathematical?
 
Aren't all onions programming languages?
 
10:06 PM
@CodyGray well, onions certainly work well in terms of set theory
 
@Slate could be
 
@OlegValter Yes, I remember PowerPoint's SmartArt.
What could be a better educational tool?!
 
@bad_coder well, mods don't stop knowing what they know about a language when they become a mod
 
@TylerH citation needed
 
OK, except for Cody*
 
10:07 PM
The brain wipe we undergo is pretty brutal.
 
:-)
 
@Dharman Nice to see you here :) Are you going to "delete everything" this year too? :)
 
I can't remember all the things I've forgotten.
9
 
@Slate aren't all programming languages onions?
 
I thought onions were ogres... if programming languages are onions and onions are ogres... does that make programming languages ogres?
 
10:08 PM
Oh no.
 
Hi, I would like to delete moderator elections.
 
I think someone already deleted all the nominees... :-(
4
 
Sorry
 
@Dharman do it now! :D
 
10:11 PM
I don't have enough candidate score
 
What is Dharman's candidate score?
 
The 40-point candidate score is calculated this way: 1 point for each 1,000 reputation up to 20,000 reputation (20 points); and 1 point for each of the 8 moderation, 6 editing, and 6 participation badges (20 points)
 
@Catija that would mean ogres are mathematical - seems to check out
 
Bot is not Turing-complete.
 
@Dharman I wanted to ask Cody's question. Please indulge us.
 
10:12 PM
What is my candidate score?
 
@Dharman Your candidate score is 39 (out of 40). You are missing this badge: Sportsmanship. Perhaps consider nominating in the election?
 
@Spevacus not yet :) give it 6 to 8
 
;D
 
I thought about omitting the possessive, but I wasn't sure that would help.
 
i don't like the sportsmanship badge
 
10:12 PM
I don't like badges
 
@KevinB you like the laxative emoticon.
 
But do you like diamonds?
 
Who doesn't like diamonds?
 
not really
 
@CodyGray not me. I have enough problems...
 
10:13 PM
@CodyGray I think the spell is to ask with a user id :)
 
Worthless hunks of dense carbon
 
@KevinB 🧻
 
@Dharman HAHAHAHA perfect response !! :D
 
@bad_coder Here I thought diamonds resolved problems, rather than created them.
@Catija It is the nicest element!
 
@CodyGray Have you seen meta?
 
10:14 PM
The blood diamonds of Stack Overflow
 
@CodyGray runs away to be alone.
 
@Spevacus Once or twice.
 
@Slate OMG! That is awesome :)
 
@CodyGray I'm sorry for your loss.
 
Pretty nifty, right?
 
10:15 PM
We have a new nomination! Please welcome our latest candidate Zoe!
8
 
Ayyyy
 
finally!
 
Zoe
the hidden character limit on the questionnaire was annoying :')
 
Shiny!
What?! I thought they got rid of the character limit!
For shame.
 
Zoe
And I just saw I missed a question :p
nope, formatting problems.
 
10:16 PM
@Zoe Best of luck!
 
@Zoe it's still hidden? Hmmmmm. I thought we added a count when you approached the limit.
 
🚽
 
Zoe
@Catija It's hidden until you get within ~1300 characters
 
Why not just... get rid of the limit?
 
@Zoe Ah. Ok.
 
10:17 PM
Is it the same 30k character limit that all posts have? (except on sites where they've... gotten rid of the limit)
 
Zoe
Which was meant a few of the later questions had to be slightly sacrificed, and I tried being creative with newlines to get around it, but that just butchered the formatting
 
@CodyGray yes IIRC.
 
Zoe
@CodyGray Did not feel like 30k
 
@CodyGray because the point is to force people to be concise. It's an elevator pitch.
 
Zoe
> Characters 11888
 
10:18 PM
@Catija I see. One of us is enough. :-)
 
One elevator?
 
One moderator who cannot be forced to be concise.
One elevator is never enough.
 
Ah.
 
I see your Cody Gray and I raise you one Makyen
 
Zoe
Concise for me some times means a lot of text
 
10:20 PM
@Zoe oh, you're talking about the questionnaire? I thought you meant the nomination itself.
 
Yeah. I thought about Makyen, but I figured it was better to just insult myself.
@Catija Oh. Yeah. Zoe and I were both talking about the questionnaire. I totally get the nomination should be kept short!
 
hmm... Why is there a stray SO icon on the leave/all/room/info line to the right? i don't see that icon in other rooms
 
@KevinB To remind you of where you are and from whence you came, of course.
 
doesn't seem to do anything
 
Zoe
@Catija yeah, the nomination is fine. The questionnaire, not so much
30k would've been real nice :')
 
10:21 PM
I would read 30k characters of text from Zoe, but I feel like I already know what most of it would say.
 
I understand. Can always trim the questions themselves.
 
@Zoe Is there a reason why you're answering the Questions inside the quote? It's a little confusing.
 
But I'll think about it. I don't remember what the limit is.
 
Oh, actually... Yeah. Just came here to say what @Scratte just did.
 
Zoe
@Scratte Formatting problems. Fixed
 
10:22 PM
Not?
 
Zoe
CRLF is expensive af :')
 
af?
 
Not as expensive as <sub>+</sub>
 
@Scratte as fudge :)
 
Zoe
@CodyGray Each newline takes two characters instead of 1 though
 
10:23 PM
I'll take "expensive things that start with F" for $200, please.
 
Zoe
Used to be half the questions, I'll call it a win getting down to 1 :p
 
Just remove all the whitespace between words
It worked for the classical languages.
 
The "read more"/"read less" wasn't in the old election interface was it, feels like a substantial improvement over the older interface (at least it will when there're multiple nominees)
 
Zoe
Could probably have cut down somewhere between 40 and 50 characters by having LF instead of CRLF though, which might've saved a line or two
 
10:28 PM
No. Because the questionnaire was a meta post
 
The old election interface allowed only a very short candidate statement, so there was no need for read more/read less. You had to go to Meta to read the answers to the questionnaire. Now, the answers to the questionnaire are inline, and the read more/read less is supposed to toggle their visibility.
@Zoe You tried actually inserting a LF instead of CR+LF? Does the server automatically replace LF with CR+LF, thus truncating your text? Or does it just not recognize LF as a line break at all?
 
Zoe
@CodyGray for the pleb mods who probably can't see the interface (:p), there's a box for the nomination, and a box for the questionnaire, which has the questions pre-filled.
 
I've no idea if I could see the interface or not. I'm way too lazy to have checked.
 
@Catija Indeed, but I wasn't sure why (@CodyGray's comment of allowing only a short candidate statement covers that). This feels far better and a welcome change.
 
Zoe
@CodyGray I'm on a Linux machine; I'd be genuinely surprised if it generated CRLF by default
 
10:30 PM
I'm actually curious if a mod could even attempt to re-nominate.
 
Zoe
Doesn't in any other context, and I generally believe it's a Windows server-thing
 
I'd imagine not but... Well.
 
You never know what web browsers are going to do...
 
@Spevacus As in nominate themselves after stepping down in the past? Happened last year
 
Zoe
I've more than once burned myself on content sent from windows servers when trying to split by newlines :ablobsweats:
 
10:31 PM
@ElectionBot what is my candidate score
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Sorry, an error occurred when calculating your score.
 
It isn't the OS that's responsible... It's the JavaScript that's running the text editor on the website.
 
That bad, eh?
2
 
@Spevacus yes. Because it's necessary at times.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels wow, you broke the score :)
 
10:31 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels Divide by zero error
 
@Nick Nah, as in a current-moderator being able to fill out another nomination. Or submitting one.
 
LOLOL
Does it return values if it is negative?
 
@Spevacus Ahhh I see, what would be the benefit?
 
@Nick Wait, that was last year? Seems like 2 or 3 years ago.
 
Zoe
@CodyGray That just means it converts the CR or LF or whatever (I forget which is which) to CRLF - in which case, an explicit LF insert wouldn't really do much. But I have no idea how it's calculated and I don't really care enough to try to get around it :p
 
10:32 PM
@CodyGray I know!
 
@Nick Simply to see the interface that Zoe's seeing and fighting with at the moment. No benefit beyond that.
 
@ElectionBot help
 
Examples of election FAQs I can help with:
- what is an election
- how to nominate myself
- how to vote
- who should I vote for
- how is candidate score calculated
- what is my candidate score
- what are the moderation/participation/editing badges
- what is the election status
- when is the election starting/ending
- when is the next phase
- how many positions are elected
- who are the candidates
- who are the current mods
 
@Zoe You could always try sending raw HTML to the server.
 
to try again....
 
Zoe
10:32 PM
I could also, you know...
Not :p
 
@ElectionBot what is my candidate score
 
@Spevacus So, the plan is to get Cody to see if he can help trim down the text? Nah, this is not a good plan.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Sorry, an error occurred when calculating your score.
 
F
Anything useful in logs @OlegValter?
 
10:33 PM
@CodyGray A kid can dream.
 
Zoe
@CodyGray Sure it is! The more characters the merrier ;p
·what is my candidate score
 
@Zoe Please read my previous message...
 
Yeah, I could help you flesh it out a bit. :-)
 
@Nick yup, something useful but ... odd
 
Lol
 
10:33 PM
Secrets about Hovercraft!
 
His name is Tim
 
@Nick: what is your quest?
 
To seek the holy grail!
 
Has that ever bothered anyone else?
 
10:35 PM
I mean, one's quest cannot be to seek.
The seeking is the questing. The quest would be to find.
 
Ah, to find
yes
 
It's a relatively easy quest
 
what is the candidate score for 522444
 
@OlegValter Sorry, an error occurred when calculating the user's score.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels wow, you really break the score
 
10:36 PM
@OlegValter: I'm totally flumoxed
I know!
 
Are you maintaining the bot this year, Oleg?
 
@CodyGray helping out, yes
 
Ah, so you haven't totally replaced Sam, just supplementing him.
I could use a supplementer!
 
Sam's irreplaceable :)
 
It's clearly between 20 and 40.
 
10:38 PM
@CodyGray maybe you just need to be complemented?
 
We were just about to crowd fund an every day of the year chatty Cody Gray..
 
The SEDE linked here suggests 40: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/289501/…
 
I think that my score is 42
 
@Scratte What's SmarterChild doing these days?
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels the API ... just gives up on ya for some reason, jeez
 
Zoe
10:39 PM
@CodyGray I'm sure you can find plenty of supplements on the internet :p
 
Too many repz.
 
@OlegValter: not the first nor the last time. @Nick: thanks
 
what is the candidate score for 522444
 
@SamuelLiew Please read my previous message...
 
This information is top secret
 
10:40 PM
T_T
 
LOL!.. ElectionBot is a cat! :) It just refuses :)
 
Zoe
No, because electionbot doesn't suck :p
 
I for one approve of the new snarkiness built into ElectionBot.
 
Going to my profile to make an addition: "broke the ElectionBot"
 
Ah, so rene took over ElectionBot
 
10:41 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels Shouldn't that just be your nomination?
 
YES
Actually, is Rene running? Has he nominated himself?
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels I think rene isn't going to :(
 
@Scratte: a shame
 
Yes.. you can me and 10000+ others are crying.. :)
 
He's happy enough with his StackApps diamond.
 
10:43 PM
what is the candidate score for 522444
 
@SamuelLiew Sorry, an error occurred when calculating the user's score.
 
Error: Eels too slippery.
2
 
Can you give nominees some backstage information? What is the current flag situation? How many mods are currently active?
 
Currently 773 active flags. Average handling time for the past week was 4 hours, 33 minutes. Average handling time for the past month was 5 hours, 35 minutes.
 
I would be hesitant about nominees having that info, it suggests nominees only nominating to resolve current issues and being less active once the current flag situation calms down or mods return
 
10:45 PM
I nominate Scratte to be the ElectionBot until it's fixed. I forked Sam's query to make it easy.
 
There are 3 mods who have marked themselves as "inactive", but... not everyone is diligent about using that feature. For example, I haven't used it.
 
@Nick That's because you look at it from your perspective.
 
I mean... duh?
 
But yeah, what Nick said. Don't nominate just based on this information.
 
I do everything from my perspective :p
 
10:47 PM
Some might look at it this way: "how many less flags would moderators have to handle if I can handle my own flags"
 
There are plenty of ways to help moderate the site without being a diamond moderator. So, if you just want to help out, thanks; please do! Nominate yourself because you actually think you can contribute in a meaningful way as a diamond mod, and you want to take on that responsibility.
 
Then a new question: What kind of help do the current moderators expect the most from the new electees?
 
I don't think there's anything specific, but I'm probably not the best person to ask.
We want new blood, people who are excited about moderating and have enough time available in their lives for whatever reason to devote to the site.
 
If you want to make an informed decision on who to vote for, you should read the candidates' answers to the questionnaire, and also look at examples of their participation on Meta and how they conduct themselves.
 
Bad bot
 
10:50 PM
Why so serious?
 
We want more people to join our team who see things as we do, share our vision of the site, and who can just help to support us in any and every way.
 
@IanCampbell LOL!.. :D
 
@ElectionBot Ha!
 
so... come to the dark side, we have cookies?
 
A very apt response...
 
10:51 PM
I mean... I wouldn't say we're the dark side. And we definitely have no cookies.
 
Who called for election?
 
But yeah, when I vote, I'm definitely looking for someone who shares my vision of the site and who I believe will generally handle things in a way that I think is correct.
 
If you want to make an informed decision on who to vote for, you should read the candidates' answers to the questionnaire, and also look at examples of their participation on Meta and how they conduct themselves.
 
That I don't know, because I haven't been involved in any of the internal discussions over the past few months that presumably took place. However, I would say that this is probably just our annual election, nothing special.
We generally have an election about once every year, give or take.
 
Does it make sense to unfeature meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/411988/… now? - The questions I'd hope wouldn't change now the nominations have started
 
10:57 PM
@Nick Yes.
 
It was rhetorical :p An invitation for someone to do it
 
and maybe lock it too
 
@Nick Imagine if there was a way built into the site to make these suggestions!
 
Ehhh, flags have an average handling time of approximately 4.5hrs right now
this is faster
 
I dislike locking, but I do tend to close these. (Not everyone handles it the same way.)
@Nick That's main site. I didn't give numbers for Meta.
 
10:58 PM
True!, and meta flags are generally substantially faster
 
Except for the ones that stay pending forever. :-)
But yeah. On Meta, average handling time for the past month is 16 hours, 9 minutes.
And that's without me doing much of anything. :-)
 
😁
 
Welcome to the election chat room! The election is in the nomination phase, and currently there is 1 candidate. I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
 
You're going to spam like that periodically?
 
They're doing some rapid fire debugging in another chatroom to try and correct the problem that Hovercraft's causing (unintentionally). Might explain restarts and such.
 
11:04 PM
I have a button that can fix the problem much faster.
 
But.. you're not going to use it! :)
 
I think it's also configured to say that if nothing's been said for a couple of minutes so it's always there for newcomers to the room
 
@Scratte Yeah, true, I don't really do anything anymore.
@Nick Imagine if there was a built-in place to put general information about a chat room!
Further, imagine that people actually would read it!
 
I'm imagining, I'm not seeing
 
Good, keep exercising that muscle.
 
11:11 PM
what is the candidate score for 522444
 
@OlegValter The candidate score for user Hovercraft Full Of Eels is 40 (out of 40).
 
not slippery enough, eh? :)
 
🎉
He ran out of mucus. They can only do that a few times in a row.
 
BTW, @CodyGray: I appreciate you nuking my post soliciting suggestions for moderators.
 
I'm glad you appreciate it, but I would have done it either way. :-)
 
11:14 PM
lol
 
Object lesson in moderation? ;-)
 
Nudging/Coercing/Recommending the self-nomination of specific users is not a good strategy. We want people who are INTRINSICALLY confident and motivated to be great moderators. I had to go around trying to wrangle enough candidates to have an actual election in my beta community this year, and this resulted in low-activity moderators joining the fold. Passion is crucial.
4
 
Mostly agreed. It can be reasonable to encourage someone you're well-acquainted with to run, in case they're on the fence. I've done this once or twice. But yeah, they definitely need to be intrinsically motivated and committed. You don't want to coerce or bribe anyone into it.
"I really think you'd be a good SO moderator because .... You should consider nominating yourself." <== OK
But that should pretty much be the end of it.
 
I think if someone has literally tens of thousands of helpful flags, you can be pretty sure they will be active as a moderator. In these cases, it seems reasonable to coerce encourage them
 
I'm not sure that assumption follows. Some folks run bots to raise flags, for example.
Not to mention that flagging is very different from moderating.
But it is reasonable to assume that they're engaged, and therefore worth a suggestion. Then again, it's likely they've already seen (or will soon see, if they sleep or something weird) the announcement about the election.
 
11:24 PM
Bot flagging is not being there yourself. I find the flag count to be undermined by those.
 
I agree that successful bot flagging does not, in itself, provide any indication that someone would be a good moderator.
But it can still be a useful contribution to the site.
 
@CodyGray: Hey now, I hadn't actually proposed bribing anyone to become a moderator—though now that you mention it, it does sound useful to have a moderator in my pocket.
 
The bot argument resonates with me, but your out of hand dismissal of correlation between user moderation activities and future participation does not.
 
I also have to mention that putting one's name out in the open on Meta kind of screws the person over in terms of agency if they considered keeping low profile the year of the election for one reason or the other. Informal endorsement (i.e. in chat) sounds fine when done reasonably, though (like what @CodyGray mentioned)
 
@JeremyCaney Been there, although not through bribery, exceedingly useful
 
11:26 PM
@IanCampbell flags don't mean that much. If you sit in the right chat rooms you can use up your flags every day. The overall number of flags can be misleading.
 
@JeremyCaney Right, no, didn't mean to imply that you had. In fact, my objection to your Meta question was altogether different, namely that it was encouraging calling others out in public without their agreement. Moderators are "special", in the sense that we've voluntarily nominated ourselves to be in a highly-visible position and thus subject to being called out in public (in a respectable way, of course) for actions we've taken.
Solicitations of people whom you think would be good moderators subverts this process, as those people haven't agreed to put themselves in that position yet.
If you do this at all, you need to do it privately, or at least semi-privately (e.g., in a chat room, which is technically public, not... not featured on Meta).
 
@bad_coder Who needs chat rooms? I get automatic helpful flags =P
Sure, it's about once a week, but still, free!
 
Comment flag on "thank you"'s shouldn't count :)
 
Well, agreed with that. Bot or not.
@IanCampbell It often can, but doesn't necessarily follow.
 
Hey, a guy's gotta get the Deputy badge somehow.
 
11:29 PM
@IanCampbell Anyway, number of flags says nothing about personal qualities <- That's what defines a good mod.
 
@Spevacus Does he, though?
 
@CodyGray: As someone who is fairly reserved and cautious about putting myself out there, I find that argument quite persuasive, and am embarrassed I didn't consider it first. Regardless, it was a relief to see that post vanish before my eyes.
 
@IanCampbell if a conflict prone person wins the mod election or someone given to practice injustice then you'll have a serious problem.
 
@bad_coder I totally disagree with... wait, you've baited me! :-p
 
@CodyGray conflict prone and argumentative are very different things, mind you.
 
11:31 PM
@CodyGray: Though, admittedly, I'm far more sensitive to that on e.g. Twitter. Compared to other community-driven sites, I find Stack Overflow shockingly civil.
 
@bad_coder Fair point
@JeremyCaney Because we have moderators. :-)
There are some shockingly uncivil things that get posted here, both on the main site and on Meta, they just don't last very long.
 
Just browse some low scored questions, you'll find all sorts of uncivil comments under them.
 
Don't forget low scored answers, they're often worse
 
Hovercraft, the bot-breaker :) You got the score 40/40 :)
 
@CodyGray: I'm sure! Even so, of my 7,000+ flags, only 28 have been for rude/abusive posts/comments. If I were applying SO rules, I could flag that many comments within a few minutes of e.g. a single NYT Tweet.
 
11:35 PM
@OlegValter It finally worked. Thank you!
 
@JeremyCaney You might enjoy flagging on Politics.SE :-p
 
@JeremyCaney Technically, you only have so many flags per day, so it'd take more than a few minutes. ;P
 
200 flags a day, that's just 35 days :)
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels emergency bot mommy at your service :)
 
@Scratte 200 flags a day?
 
11:38 PM
You only get 100 comment flags though
 
And 100 post flags
at max
Imagine having to find 100 rude/thanks comments to flag, and another 100 posts to flag!
 
doesn't it make exactly 200 flags a day? :)
 
@Someone_who_likes_SE 100 + 100 is 200.. we might need those mathematical programming languages to verify :)
 
@JeremyCaney Bribing Mod Candidates is the new Buying Unicorn Points
 
"I could flag that many comments within a few minutes" I'm not sure how much more explicit the challenge could be. Can't use post flags on comments.
 
11:39 PM
@Someone_who_likes_SE It's easy to find comments. Just search for "From review" on posts that are a week old.
 
@Scratte nonsense, we just need onions! Or ogres.
 
@Scratte Or sit around in The Fire Department and watch for every spam post SmokeDetector reports
 
@OlegValter How many onions does it take to add 200 flags? :)
 
@Scratte: Oops! I meant to say that I could flag 28 rude/abusive posts within a few minutes on Twitter—not the full 7,000. Though, I do like the idea of a NAA flag on social media sites.
 
Note that he says "could flag". That's in the subjunctive mood, so practical concerns like the site imposing a flag limit do not disqualify or disprove the statement.
 
11:40 PM
@Scratte depends on how you chop them :)
 
I don't chop.. we have a bot for that ;)
 
Well, there's also a 5 second limit on flags, so it would take at least 2.3 minutes.
 
I've hit that limit a few times :)
 
@IanCampbell: Why'd you have to remind me? (That damned limit.)
 
@IanCampbell That's important to ensure that the flagger feels the same amount of frustration as the author of the comment they're flagging. :-)
 
11:41 PM
@JeremyCaney Do they even have flags on twitter?
 
@Scratte Me too: When a user responded with two f--- you comments at about the same time, I flagged those two within 5 seconds and had to wait.
 
@Scratte Of course, it even has a flag icon :p Although they call it reporting instead
 
Ahh.. I've only been to twitter to see the status of Stack. And I never felt the need to flag "We're working on it" :)
 
I have: "Work harder".
 
11:44 PM
I think we need a new flag emoji.. 🏴‍☠️
 
@CodyGray Why is the UK flag listed as "United Kingdom" and yet positioned as if it's meant to be "Great Britain"
 
@Scratte: They actually do, and they even have an abusive or harmful flag. I'm not sure how well-enforced it is, though. To @CodyGray's previous point, that would actually require having (enough, active, competent) moderators.
 
Cody must know this, because it's Cody that posted the link..
 
You didn't realize when you linked to some random emoji site that you were going to have to defend the content.
 
And why are the English/Scottish/Welsh flags all tag sequences?!
 
11:46 PM
@JeremyCaney I have a feeling that it's never a problem finding people that want the job. The problem is finding the right people to do it.
 
Welcome to the election chat room! The election is in the nomination phase, and currently there is 1 candidate. I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
 
Why does the election page not update when new comments come in? Like any normal post?
 
Because it's not a normal post ;)
 
The election page is how I imagine SO functioning 10 years ago.
 
:D.. Hehe.. I'm dying.. tears are rolling down my face :D :D
 
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