« first day (1764 days earlier)      last day (194 days later) » 

05:32
0
Q: Why is the GenAI ban no longer pinned in the right-hand sidebar?

tripleeeWhy was the link to the policy banning AI-generated content removed from the right-hand sidebar? It's not like the problem has abated. I know I saw the link there as late as last week, but now it's gone.

05:56
@Zoe Also works in blocking undesirable people IRL. Put a cardboard box in front of them.
 
2 hours later…
07:32
0
Q: Notification clearing

PhixSometimes I follow a question as it's interesting but not something I can contribute to as I don't know the language itself, not as much experience, whatever the reason. I then get X amount of notifications, which is great, but I think if I click on one notification, they should be marked as read...

 
1 hour later…
08:58
venting on stackoverflow.com/a/78569250/11107541. man. I know CMake's reference docs are not noob friendly (they are reference docs), but... if you're already going to take a dip into the reference docs... maybe read more thoroughly before posting a question with a bunch of misconceptions and points of confusion? I like my Q&A smaller scoped and more organized / focused than this... or was I supposed to close vote this for some reason instead of answering?
honestly cannot understand why it has three upvotes. title seems to promise a nice question that many beginners may have in the future, and it ends up being a mish-mash of miscellaneous things I don't find particularly satisfying to correct.
and because it's a bit all over the place, I don't know how to give it a better title.
and this is not the first time I've run into a CMake question like this. stackoverflow.com/a/74409439/11107541 is a star example, and maybe stackoverflow.com/a/75093720/11107541 counts as well. and in the past, when I was a newer user and decided to mope about it on meta (before I wrote those answer posts), it didn't go particularly well for me. after which point I loosened up and just answered those questions.
People are just bad at reading (me included) or maybe we can say good at selective reading. A few days ago I saw an answer that quoted some points from documentation to say something, while doing this they forgot to read the sentence just before the part they quoted which would have proved their answer wrong.
09:17
I've lost count of the questions that were asked that also include the answer in them. Because they ask something like "Why does <feature> do <x>" and even show the relevant documentation...that explicitly mentions <x>.
Or questions that are somewhat the opposite: "Why does <feature> not behave as described in <circumstances>". Nowadays these are more frequent and usually the asker also includes something like "ChatGPT claimed <feature> behaved <in some fashion> but I wrote code that shows that is not the case." to which the only answer is already in the question - the way it behaves is the way you've demonstrated it behaves. That's the behaviour. ChatGPT is just lying.
Hardly a question for the ages, though. Can you imagine going in a library to find an ancient tome on, dunno, spoons or something. And in it you find "My buddy Tom said spoons hover. I tried it many times and turns out they don't. So, do remember this ancient wisdom from me: spoons do not hover in mid-air which is literally just one random person claiming it and nobody else really thought that."
Would be quite a useless tome to learn from.
I don't know why people even try to quote an LLM as some sort of authoritative source, maybe if they were quoting the documentation it would make some sense.
Well, they probably do because there is a massive campaign trying to paint LLMs as authoritative. Initiated from LLM developing companies but also those that want to get on the hype train who also praise LLMs' capabilities. Then there are also the regular users who are misled by the hype and sort of fail the Turing test with chatbots (or the Chinese room test, I suppose. Though I don't know if you even "fail" that).
Thanks to Brandolini's law that campaign is largely successful. Because refuting it faces an uphill battle.
-1
Q: Suggest me any ETL tools?

Kh MunkhbatWhich ETL tool should i use MSSql data tables export to excel sheets. Size of database is 20.000 MB. I think i'm using Microsoft SSIS ETL tool. How fit is SSIS ETL tool. Suggest me any other ETL tools. Thank you

09:56
-1
Q: Continued harassment as my question closed for being "off-topic"

Jesse NicklesFor 11+ years I've had no issues on StackOverflow until a few weeks ago when a high reputation user and one of the mods decided to stalk and harass me here... I know this, because that user contacted me to tell me so. How to prevent WordPress.org from overriding Git Updater for new versions? Plea...

@Paulie_D I will add the screenshot to my post if it's allowed, it's a private DM from this guy on Discord and Skype. — Jesse Nickles 2 mins ago
Alright, fess up - who is using Skype.
> Please tell me how this question warranted being closed, without any discussion or voting, for being "not about programming" when it's literally about PHP programming language
Also, on that note: 1. There is zero code in the question. Nor even something that seems like it needs code. 2. The question didn't even have the tag for about 1.5 years. Until last week.
"literally about PHP programming language" might be a tad too strong. Also, as far as I can figure, the question is...not about PHP. But about some Wordpress plugin took/resolution or something. I doubt pure PHP knowledge would really solve it.
10:32
0
Q: What are these 1 day old accounts?

WoJFor some time already, I see on old questions of mine answers that make more or less sense, from 1/a few days old accounts with (obviously) a very low rep (example for a 7 years old question). Has this been analyzed (at the level of SO) and are there any conclusions? These may be bots (but then w...

10:48
@VLAZ The OP :P
11:02
0
Q: Should multiple self-promotion link-only answers be flagged as spam or with a custom flag? Can a spam penalty be reversed?

mozwayI came across this answer (10k+ only) when curating new answers to old questions. I initially flagged it as library-only (VLQ). Besides of the problem,i want to say I have found a plugin for cloud debugging. This plugin may be helpful for debugging on real devices: [link] Then I realized that t...

 
3 hours later…
14:20
14:46
Discussions - now also an email
The growth of the product is staggering!
And a site to hire hackers as well!
Lol, yes.
Zoe
Zoe
brb need to go hire a SEO hacker expert over email 2.0
SE have dropped the integration with Indeed. For why deal with inferior products, when we have Discussion Jobs!
Zoe
Zoe
Jobs still turned out to be more of a disappointment than I expected
I'm by no means in the target audience, but still. They announced it to mods internally a few weeks in advance, but with a lot less details, and the main focus was on the sustainability of the system (i.e. that the old system wasn't profitable; this is also mentioned in the public post with more details). I imagined they'd remake it mostly as it was, and just have a third party vendor supply and manage the listings. I didn't expect the entire thing to just be a giant ad
15:04
*adjusts cardboard box* I don't know what you're talking about.
Zoe
Zoe
adjusts cardboard box who said that?
:)
Or maybe 📦:)
¯\_(📦)_/¯
@Zoe Never :P
Zoe
Zoe
:p
15:32
0
Q: Why was my rate-limiting question closed for being opinion based?

Jesse NicklesWhat are some good Nginx rate limits for WordPress websites? Nginx rate-limiting is opinionated? Is it sorta like asking people what their favorite color is, or who has the best pizza in Chicago?

15:45
@NewPosts We have spammers, emails, and whatnot in discussions but people who actually want to discuss something still end up posting on Main. Lol
Zoe
Zoe
15:57
You were already informed by a moderator on your previous Meta question that some of the serial downvoting against you has been reverted, that the remainder is still being actively investigated, and that SE is understaffed and may take some time to resolve this. I understand that you're impatient for a resolution, but bombarding Meta with angry questions about it isn't going to make the investigation go any faster. — F1Krazy 10 mins ago
Now I remember why they felt so familiar
Zoe
Zoe
I'm aware of some of the context, but I slammed into the second reverse gear and backed the fuck out of there when I realised what an utter clusterfuck the entire situation was
You gave up? You ran around and deserted?
Zoe
Zoe
I didn't run around, I ran away. There's a difference :P
Look, "away" can be circular.
Zoe
Zoe
16:04
@VLAZ Not in my frame of reference
laughs in relativity
16:33
Wait, why are titles to questions truncated? I didn't know they would be. It seems...odd.
Especially since it's truncated so early. The top question's title is "How do I get the array to print user input, store the subtotal, multiply that times the tax, and total" truncated to remove the "and total".
Zoe
Zoe
probably cut off by the [closed]
or [duplicate] rather
Also, the usual UX affordance is to show the full text on hover when it's truncated. You don't have that in the question list.
@Zoe Even then, half the row is still blank.
16:49
did tables always have a darker background?
I can't seem to understand the truncation rules, at first glance it seems to be something like 90 or 95 characters but then I also see some titles with more than 101 characters, etc. that haven't been truncated.
Huh, they've answered 19 "difference" questions in the past three hours...
just ask them where they got their tables :)
Looks like plagiarism to me
They do link back for some, but no quote
16:58
Looks more like plagiarism from "the same site" ...
Welp, I bit
I'm trying to find the origin of the table and/or the source of the info you used but couldn't find it. Could you provide the reference for either one? — Andrew T. 20 secs ago
I am guessing Gen AI, but they picked a rather weird strategy to do that if they did so. All the questions they answered were related to AWS and were about differences between certain services, etc/
17:32
1
Q: Disturbing ad with black circles and crosses

GSergThis ad has been showing a lot in the ads column to the right: It's massive, ugly and disturbing with its crosses in circles. I have tried using the "report this ad" link but nothing has come out of it. It may be that the crosses are meant to be small and in the corners and serve as a way to c...

@NewPosts 📦
Zoe
Zoe
17:46
@starball ChatGPT, I choose you!
 
1 hour later…
19:08
Maybe we should write an email as a Discussion about it.
Zoe
Zoe
@KevinB there are 6 flags on that post
Not a single one is a spam flag
Are spam flags not available in the non-mod flag UI or something?
> Are you starting with React JS or looking to improve your skills? Let's discuss the essential steps and resources to master React! Share your experiences, tips, and questions about learning React, building projects, and advancing your React knowledge.
nah spam flags defnitely exist
Zoe
Zoe
I can actually check, I have a sock with flagging privs
19:25
they also auto-delete
@Zoe I custom mod flagged it, since I didn't believe it was enough of spam
Zoe
Zoe
It is indeed there
jsut not everyone might be able to realize this kind of stuff is spam
Zoe
Zoe
I would delete it, but I don't care enough about discussions to do it
2
Also, might have been more spam. As in spam seed.
19:26
I flagged one a while ago about how to use a Walmart gift card. That was spam.
There is spam in Discussions every day. Usually multiple times a day.
Actually it was almost all of the flags you can do on discussions
> How would i create a tool with AI to generate fully functional/accessible/mobile and desktop beautiful web templates that can be used in any system
> Before the day when we can use a single programming language, I can assume that AI would do that for us.
I actually am not sure if stackoverflow.com/beta/discussions/78493849/… should be flagged. It has a ton of grammar errors, but that doesn't really matter, it shows no research or effort to find the answer (a simple search will show tons of results) and even asking AI will give a somewhat accurate answer.
meh
it's the perfect case for discussions. It's low quality, it's asking a stupid question, only has stupid answers
2
19:34
Good point
tbf
it's a method that has no (good) purpose today
that had a good purpose in the past
Zoe
Zoe
Dumping most of the moderation on CMs was also, arguably, a monumentally dumb move. Not sure how much of that has since been offloaded on discussions mods, but clearly not enough if spam has been around for 7 hours
@KevinB If SE wanted a higher quality Discussion content, they'd have done something about it. Therefore, through inaction they show this is the content they do want.
2
Zoe
Zoe
I don't think they really care. I think discussions is just another plot to bump engagement metrics, so they can make some fancy graphics to include at their next board meeting
> See, we're listening to the community, the community wanted a place for more opinionated questions and now they have it
19:37
@Zoe Look, I just find it amusing to make fun of. Don't bring reality into this!
i'm sure staging ground will be managed flawlessly and certainly not crash and burn like everything else has
Zoe
Zoe
@VLAZ 10 months or whatever of being on strike means I have zero filter when it comes to criticising the company's decisions. Let me have my fun :P
@KevinB I'm sure it won't lead to a lot of confused comments and users abandoning their question because they need help IMMEDIATELY
Btw, why is Cody Gray still on strike?
IMO staging ground shouldn't exist, but it's features should exist on live questions.
@Zoe Next up off-site complaints: "Evil SO mods didn't even publish my question!"
did cody ever return?
my understanding is he's been effectively awol since before the strike ended
@KevinB Apparently not. As in, not even back to doing stuff behind the scenes. I hope he's just very busy (as it happens with him). But apparently has been basically inactive since right before the strike end.
Zoe
Zoe
@KevinB Nope. Hasn't been around since December
...and I repeated what you said in the next comment...
Zoe
Zoe
19:41
@VLAZ Also that
I set up a script to keep an eye on his mod status
i wonder what the guidance is for users who have their question rejected in SG
"Try again"?
will SG have a "This is perfectly low quality for discussions" button to send stuff to discussions
Zoe
Zoe
output=$(curl -L --fail stackoverflow.com/users/366904 -H "User-Agent: User6296561 (+ModRemovalDetectorCronShim)") || exit 1
echo $output | grep s-badge__moderator > /dev/null || ntfy pub --tags skull -p 4 --title="Cody yeeted" alerts "Cody is no longer a moderator"
It's also funny, since I've already seen people complain (pre-SG anything) that they've been shadow banned on SO. And a myriads of other complaints about the site which have no basis in reality, of course.
So, with SG, there would be probably newer non-existent things they'd complain about.
Zoe
Zoe
@KevinB It's almost like the onboarding side of question asking wasn't considered
How unlike SE /s
but you'll also be able to review things that have been approved, and close them, because many will be quite close worthy i'm expecting
19:43
@KevinB Will the icon be a hot potato?
Zoe
Zoe
@VLAZ Likely a cold potato, given the massive reviewer deficit
the launch will go with the first 2 questions asked by users who have less than 500 rep
@Zoe Look, I'm glad that SE would be monitoring the situation. Apparently, all that they'd do because their plan, as far as I can gather, when the bucket overflows to...just let it overflow.
how many is that per day
of the 6k we get a day
sede has that right?
what are we looking at
Zoe
Zoe
According to my math from two years ago, the staging ground will tank around 3300 questions per day, assuming 2022 volumes
19:47
honestly surprised the announcement didn't include this data, it should be research they've already done if they are taking this seriously
It's less than 6k per day nowadays. I think around 4-ish k. The site stats claims 2k but that's an average that includes the weekends.
OK, more likely 3 point something k
Zoe
Zoe
I think we could guesstimate 2-3k per day for the SG
they should be able to relatively easily determine just how many posts will come in, and given 99% of posts from new users will likely need some editing,
it's likely the majority won't be just instantly approved
especially since it isn't launching with a rep incentive
@KevinB I don't think the criteria is simply less than 500 rep. From what I remember during the beta the criteria was tied to how users are forced through the Ask Wizard. So it's something like 2-3 "successful" questions until you're not longer eligible.
Zoe
Zoe
My prediction is that the SG reviewers will be able to keep up with volume for at most 1-2 weeks
19:50
the meta post says the users first 2 questions
the beta additionally had a throttle that i assume we will also have live
How many people who post 1 question even come back for a third?
the throttle being, only allow x total actively being reviewed posts at a time, everything past that just skips the SG
Zoe
Zoe
as long as the SG is new, fancy, and [featured], it'll attract reviewers that normally wouldn't bother. As reality kicks in, those reviewers disappear, the number of reviewers settle back to normal, and the SG will quickly grow in size, or at least as much as the 2 day automatic cutoff allows, with the end result being a net negative for everyone involved
@VLAZ Probably more than the numbers indicate. Q-ban evasion socks are an uncontrolled and unmeasured problem
My biggest issue with SG since it was announced is how untenable it would be to review and constantly keep on top of the reviews. If we take the Close Questions queue as basis - it is constantly leaking reviews because it doesn't have enough people using it, and it's constantly at several thousand review items.
> The reviewers just weren't interested in reviewing posts, it's not our fault this failed. Since it seems there's little interest lets just get rid of downvotes and close votes, seems to be working fine for discussions
19:53
And that review queue has far less effort needed than SG, where you have to engage much more with a question and keep re-reviewing it.
Zoe
Zoe
@VLAZ That's what I've been saying since 2022 - until they deal with real onboarding, and not in the form of the SG, but also to get more reviewers, the SG will fail
And, I'm not even active in the Close questions queue. Because I find spending time in there to be miserable.
Zoe
Zoe
We don't have any queues under control - aside LQA and maybe triage, all of them are out of control. Even the mod flag queue (i.e. all flags handled by mods, not just the type of flag called "mod flag" -- that too tbf, but that's an aside) hasn't been under 1000 flags in at least a year
@Zoe Yes, like, the project as-is seems doomed to failure. Or "not success" let's call it. Because if you get to, say, review only 10% of the questions coming in, you're not really doing much for the platform.
I keep thinking along the lines of "they need to get the most engaged answerers involved in the reviewing process", but then remember that the most engaged answerers are low rep users who don't often care about the goals of the site, not the handful of high rep users that post a lot of answers and won't be able to make much of a dent in this (and have no incentive to without the rep incentive)
Zoe
Zoe
19:55
@VLAZ If it's just 10%, the SG is worse than not doing much - it's a negative contribution
If 90% of askers are stuck in limbo for 2 days before their question is posted, that's how you kill engagement in the long run
You could get whatever fancy stats you want. Maybe 100% of the questions going into SG then hit their targets. But there is another 90% that don't.
but that 90% that don't aren't hitting any less than they were before SG
Zoe
Zoe
but I also don't care at this point. The data dump exists, so if the company wants to run the site into the ground, I'll gladly watch them
@Zoe That's also true. Let's assume 10% of the questions get reviewed and they manage to count as "success" for whatever metrics. Maybe they all get published and get a bajillion upvotes. Which...is unlikely. The more likely scenario is that multiple reviewers sunk a lot of time for something barely passable.
Zoe
Zoe
I've been saying what I've said here since 2022. They didn't care, and they blatantly ignored my answers and comments back then. They've been warned more than enough at this point - reality setting in is the only next step that they might listen to
19:58
it's hard to view the site from the perspective of users that aren't like me or past me the answerer. Back then i would have loved to work with the SG to find questions to answer, but... that's not the normal
most users aren't doing that
my concerns with rep incentives is how can a rep incentive in the SG not just be another quantity over quality scenario while still being rewarding enough to matter
Zoe
Zoe
I still don't understand why they neither looked at statistics, nor cared when I provided them with said statistics. There's simply no way we'll have enough reviewers to keep up with the SG long-term. If the company cared, the next logical step would've been "we really want this to happen, but we don't have enough reviewers to support it. How can we get more reviewers"
Then poof, they'd have an onboarding initiative
@KevinB Review queues already demonstrate you don't even need rep incentive for people to robo-review. With rep incentive it'd be so much worse.
Zoe
Zoe
and the SG would've had a fighting chance, rather than being set up for failure
i think it'll active, in one form or another, for years
Zoe
Zoe
@VLAZ Here's a fun one; give reviewers 10% of upvotes, and 100% of downvotes on questions they approve
20:01
@KevinB Well, review queues are around. Being active isn't the same as being useful.
even if they just limit it to, say, 50 pending reviews a day they'll see it as a success, if posts that leave it are better off than posts that never enter it
it'd have to fail pretty spectacularly for it to not have a positive net outcome for the posts that make it out
Zoe
Zoe
And an extra -50 penalty and removal of rep gained from upvotes if the post is closed
If an SG item you pass onto the main site and it gets closed ("soon" - the time to be determined), then one Cthulhu is released onto the world and instructed to eat your brain. So, one or two mishaps you can probably survive. But if you keep reviewing wrong, then eventually your luck would run out. As would your brain. Into a Cthulhu's maw.
Zoe
Zoe
Or! If an SG item you pass onto the main site gets closed, you're forced into a decade of researching how to make catgirls real
Pfhahaha. I'm literally watching a video on the other monitor of somebody playing Rimworld with mods for 1. catgirls 2. worshipping Cthulhu 3. making the catgirls worship Cthulhu in a dark cave.
20:08
👀
Zoe
Zoe
lmao
20:20
In case anyone forgot why they got rid of downvotes on discussions, "The reasoning behind this change [eliminating downvotes] is that there is not (yet) a clear shared definition of what a downvote means in Discussions." (meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/429377/…) How about downvoting discussions that are actually emails, downvoting discussions that are not even remotely about programming, or downvoting discussions that show no prior research?
@Lamper46 Staff also floated the idea that what replies and/or flags should be used instead of downvotes. I'd agree with this but overall voting just makes no sense. Like, at all. How do you compare some garbage that was dumped onto a Discussion and has one upvote to "what music do you listen to", to an actual Discussion that follows the actual guidelines and fulfils the actual intent of Discussions?
@Lamper46 I mean...it is. Soliciting people to take their survey. Of which they are a product manager of.
@VLAZ But they say their affiliation
Right but the entire point of their post (actually TWO OF THEM) is to promote the survey. "Hi, I am the author of spamsite.com. Go visit spamsite.com" is still completely and overly promotional.
The same user posted the same thing as a Q&A as well. It's now nuked.
not = now. I don't know how I make this typo so often...
Zoe
Zoe
But the company says spam is okay if you do it on discussions /s
Sheesh, stars are just raining today
3
20:37
⭐_⭐
Zoe
Zoe
Stack Overflow? More like Star Overflow
20:52
> I did a thing, discuss
<script>
jQuery(function($){
   function numberWithApostrophes(number) {
    var parts = number.toString().split(".");
    parts[0] = parts[0].replace(/\B(?=(\d{3})+(?!\d))/g, "'");
    return parts.join(".");
}
  $(document).ready(function() {
  $("#wicky h2,#wickydesign h2").each(function() {
    var num = $(this).text();
    var apostropheNum = numberWithApostrophes(num);
    $(this).text(apostropheNum);
  });
});
});
</script>
Zoe
Zoe
It's kinda a shame there's no rep in discussions. it would've been fun to grind rep with some low-hanging fruit
Just write the low-hanging fruit of discussions, like editor flamewars
> What lead you to programming?
who cares
Zoe
Zoe
> What's your favourite programming joke?
marketers
that's who cares
Zoe
Zoe
yeah, but if discussions was a rep printing press... why not?
20:57
How can we get our tools in front of people as early as possible
like, holy hell
> Long ago when I started teaching PHP, I remember this question: Why can't I run PHP on the client side?

I know the answer, but the question is still on my mind: Why can't its developers work on this idea? I know there are things that help but in the end it's just an external tool I think if it succeeds, it will be a great leap forward for PHP
You're teaching people php, and are wondering why php hasn't been made to work client-side
how can an account just exist for 8 years, with no activity, then suddenly one day decide "huh, i'll log in and ask people to fill out my survey"
 
1 hour later…
22:20
-2
Q: I love it when people who can't answer your question police it

BVernonI just wanted to say that. I really love when people who have no clue how to answer a question waste both their and your time policing it and telling you all the things they need to know in order to still not answer it. Especially when they ask things that were already clearly covered, but they n...

23:08
0
Q: What is the correct way to post a portable solution to a platform-specific question?

idbriiIn short: I posted solutions as a new Q&A question and as an answer and they were all deleted. I wanted to know how to print my compiler version in a way that works for multiple compilers. This question was specific to GCC (question text and tag were about gcc): Output Compiler Version in a C++ P...


« first day (1764 days earlier)      last day (194 days later) »