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3:14 AM
I can at least assure y'all that the moderator team has provided substantial feedback.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:26 AM
2301
A: How to detect a mobile device using jQuery

sweets-BlingBlingEditor's note: user agent detection is not a recommended technique for modern web apps. See the comments below this answer for confirmation of this fact. It is suggested to use one of the other answers using feature detection and/or media queries. Instead of using jQuery you can use simple JavaS...

i mean
clearly it's recommended, look at the votes
if only we had exception handlers who could look to SME's for advice on how to curate specific higihly visible/popular damaging answers
(and if only they had the tools to do so)
 
4:47 AM
@KevinB So many answers that use the same technique on that question...
 
check out the related questions.
you could probably find some plagiarism if you really wanted to
 
@KevinB No point these days. Might as well await the next two announcements from SE, before such effort is given to the site.
 
5:04 AM
@Andreasdetestscensorship That was never the case, not sure where you got that from
@Andreasdetestscensorship any suggestions for improvement are appreciated
 
 
2 hours later…
6:50 AM
@Andreasdetestscensorship Actually, the user does engage in their share of curation work, so that cannot be the reason.
@RyanM Eeeek! Geez. Yeah, they don't know that. Probably wouldn't care, but... ugh, I do.
@RyanM Many such people that I know don't have a "phone carrier", per se. They often use prepaid SIM cards and stuff.
@RyanM You can just as easily future-proof by ensuring that your code can be compiled for multiple platforms. Then, when it's time to switch platforms, you just re-compile. I don't really understand the issue.
@RyanM Hmm, that seems like a huge regression. Microsoft figured this out decades ago...
@Enet4 Worse, it's both places combined into one.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Hmm. I read it as an answer to the question, "How quickly?" "More quickly."
Also, "quicker" is comparative, meaning it compares between two things. The graph has many more than two things, so "quicker" would not really be correct there.
@NordineLotfi An ester is actually a whole class of organic compounds, of which polyester is only one example (meaning "many esters").
@NordineLotfi No, it's not like that. "Faster" is the comparative form, like "quicker". "More faster" and "more quicker" are both wrong, because you don't use "more" with the comparative form. But "more quickly" is not wrong.
@NordineLotfi But, yes, sometimes native speakers like myself will intentionally use non-grammatical forms for emphasis or humorous effect.
@NordineLotfi So... what you're saying is, natural intelligence (NI) is a thing? Hmm, I think we knew that. :-)
@Andreasdetestscensorship There's no fun being had by moderators at all.
 
7:13 AM
@CodyGray Not even freely editing your own comments and chat messages without a time limit? :)
 
That's not really fun, no.
Especially considering we've been told in no uncertain terms by staff that doing so is a violation of our mod privileges....
 
 
2 hours later…
8:58 AM
@RyanM Would be assuring if SE, y'know, cared
 
I can at least assure y'all that they don't.
 
9:17 AM
> You seem to find this confusing, I do not. For example, in French 'une cigarette' is feminine, that does not make a cigarette into a woman.
"I know how gender works", they say, as they proceed to conflate gender identify with grammatical gender.
 
@Enet4 I'm sure many IRL are neuter /s
*facepalm* (incoming)
 
-2
Q: Does SO allow blocking users who troll?

MnkHow can I block users who negate my question and have it closed? Here's my only question I posted. Within minutes it's closed. Does stackoverflow allow blocking users who troll in the name of keeping things clean? https://stackoverflow.com/q/76345950?noredirect=1 Any answer?

 
^
 
9:34 AM
@VLAZ You have no idea.
But yeah, that question is a facepalm, too.
 
@NewPosts okay, I lied on the comment...
 
@CodyGray I have some idea. Might be a wrong idea but it's not "no".
 
The beans have kinda been spilled on at least one of the things.
 
Lol
There's a new post on teams asking the company to follow their own policy for introducing new policies
I had completely missed that policy
 
Apparently, you are not alone.
 
9:42 AM
It's easy to forget when they haven't followed it in ages
 
There was this time in 2019 when they didn't follow policies. That didn't turn out well.
 
At least they aren't harassing an individual in public to the media this time
(yet)
 
How can I block users who complain about downvotes and close votes? Here's an example on Meta. Within minutes they complain and call us trolls. Does stackoverflow allow blocking users who call other users trolls in the name of wanting their questions answered? Any answer?
 
You can downvote their posts.
 
:>
 
9:56 AM
That's your downvote face?
 
It's my happy downvote face.
 
Here's my super-downvote face: :>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ugh, it's just Tuesday
This is gonna be a long week
 
Better grab some popcorn while it's hot.
 
We'll all be roasted soon enough.
 
10:23 AM
@CodyGray so did I, which is kind of fine, I suppose. Not particularly hung up on the xkcd's wording, actually - it's just that the disappearance of comparative forms has started to jump out at me lately.
@CodyGray I believe the comparison is implied here: "quicker than usual", but, again, not particularly against how it is used in the xkcd (with an adverb). What baffles me is the use of "more" and "most" as adverbs (am I interpreting the role correctly?) when forming comparatives of adjectives ("more fast", etc.). To me it all sounds as clunky as "more good".
@CodyGray really? unconditionally?
@Enet4 to be honest, in full context it does seem like they argue that grammatical gender doesn't mean the term itself is supposed to represent a gendered entity?
although they certainly conflate "sex" with "gender" by that statement.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine It's a distraction. A deliberate one at that. They took the opportunity of the new CoC announcement to counter it with a conservative agenda.
 
@Enet4 yeah, the whole thing definitely is
 
The fact that the answer wasn't moderated is already a sign that they're going to have a hard time enforcing the CoC on the subject of misinformation.
Which in turn leaves me convinced that things won't change that much.
At least for Stack Overflow.
wrt the new CoC that is.
 
10:43 AM
@Enet4 yes, it's continued existence is a good proof of concept :)
 
It's extra cringy when one of their compelling evidences against climate change is a one hour presentation from the Texas Alliance of Energy Producers.
I mean, make it less obvious, will ya
 
11:13 AM
@CodyGray Then that’s just weird.
@Mithical That was my impression from looking at the site, navigating it, and attempting to ask a simple C++ question a few months ago. Eventually, I asked in the chat, but then I noticed nobody had been there for 2 years. So when I hadn’t gotten an answer within 2 days, I figured I’d probably not get one, and never checked back.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Hm, interesting. I haven't noticed "the disappearance of comparative forms".
 
@CodyGray So American. I find it weird that your phones are linked to your service providers. Hopefully I’ve misunderstood how you do it. It’s much better to just buy the phone, and then pick whichever service provider you want, and get a new SIM card delivered in the mail, from them, or reuse an existing SIM card from them or somebody else.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine "quicker than usual" for the XKCD scale? No, that's definitely sorting all the items by the degree of quickness, so not a simple binary comparison, and thus the binary comparative doesn't work. But, yes, I agree, using "more" and "most" when there is already a comparative form of the adverb is incorrect and discouraged in most cases.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Yeah, pretty much. I forget the details, but I remember being quite upset about it. It was something like, using your mod privileges outside of moderation duties is forbidden. Which makes no sense, because there's no way for us not to use them. Also, the specific example was about mods redacting their own chat messages, and while we agreed there were possible abuse vectors there, the specific case was pointed out (multiple times, by multiple of us…) of a mod who accidentally pasted…
…PII into a public room, then immediately realized it and acted using their mod privileges to undo any potential damage. According to the strict statement of the rule that was given to us by a staff member off the cuff in TL (but portrayed as official policy), that was a violation.
As far as I know, that statement by staff was never walked back, although it was also never confirmed in light of the massive number of questions and protests.
@Enet4 The thing is, none of the "misinformation" that they're targeting was ever on-topic or otherwise suitable for SO in the first place. So that policy is almost completely irrelevant.
@Enet4 Gee, how did you know that the Texas Alliance of Energy Producers wasn't an alliance of companies who manufacture solar panels and wind turbines? :-)
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Codidact doesn't have a built-in chat. Are you thinking of TopAnswers?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship They're not, in general. They only are if you do some kind of cost-share with your service provider, where they pay part or all of the purchase price for the phone up front, and then you pay them gradually back over time by paying a monthly service fee.
You can totally do exactly what you're describing in the US, and it's quite common. Except that the phones most people want are really expensive, so they don't have the money to buy them outright up-front.
@Mithical Dang, no wonder I never got an answer! :-)
 
11:28 AM
@ZoestandswithUkraine Ehem; Klimarealistene.
@Mithical Maybe? The website, with its UI, its extent, and its coverage, was really confusing last time I checked.
@CodyGray Ah, phu. I’m not alone.
 
I agree with you that Codidact has a very confusing interface to someone who is quite used to SO/SE's.
But I've never tried to use its chat feature, and I was mostly making fun of you on that basis, plus the whole judging a site by whether or not you got an answer within 2 days.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship touche
 
@CodyGray I’m not judging the site by that, at all.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship This is CD: software.codidact.com This is TA: topanswers.xyz
 
I’m just saying it’s confusing. And there was little activity, that I could see. 2 years since the last chat message, and months since the last post, seems like a dead site to me. But I won’t mind visiting it again later this week. Perhaps I’ll even have to stay around for it this time!
 
11:42 AM
> Room<C++>
Wow, nice copying there, TopAnswers.
TopAnswers definitely has an active C++ chat now.
 
@Mithical I’ll have a look later. But it seemed to me that CD and TA are the same thing.
 
They are not, although they support each other's projects. They are distinct.
 
Then why did you use completely different names and acronyms for... oh wait, I see.
 
:)
 
Speaking of, have y'all polished up your policy on AI-generated content?
 
11:50 AM
Concensus on Software was not to allow it. I'm going to poke the team to see if we want to bake in a network-wide policy.
 
Good. It's essential to have one in place so that you can later renege on it.
It just won't feel like home otherwise.
 
In the meantime, I advised making it clear that it's for high-quality, peer-reviewed Q&A, which led to some curiosity that I'm as yet unable to answer.
 
Well... "peer-reviewed" isn't in conflict with pending events...
And I'm not exactly tickled by "we're here to help you share knowledge and get curated answers in a friendly environment"
Oh, you have "articles" now? Groan.
 
@CodyGray That's how Electrical Engineering shares original papers, for instance. Not every community needs or has them.
Software doesn't, as far as I remember.
 
Hmm. Yeah. I don't know. The idea has been ruined for me, I guess, is all I can say.
Why not just post them as Q&A?
Ask a question about what the research attempts to answer/investigate. Have the research group answer it. Require that the answer be sufficiently self-contained, but also have it refer to the paper. Boom, problem solved.
 
11:58 AM
Because not every community needs to publish things as Q&A. Papers aren't questions and don't need answers. It's designed to be very much "tell us what you need for this to work for you, instead of shoehorning everything to fit a strict, everything-is-the-same platform".
That can range from a built-in sources helper on Judaism, to a table of contents on Code Golf, to articles for papers on Electrical Engineering.
@CodyGray Eh, Cat's announcement throws a certain wrench in that.
 
12:30 PM
@CodyGray With sarcasm detection off, my answer would be that I gave the benefit of the doubt until I did my due research: "It advocates for members of the petroleum industry in the United States."
 
@CodyGray I see :o didn't know (only said the first thing that came to mind)
@CodyGray hmm, didn't know that either, but you know, "more quickly" still make me cringe for some reasons
@CodyGray ah yeah, I agree with that too (especially since I do it too but I usually try to make it obvious in-context)
@CodyGray I mean, I know people here already could do the same, or maybe even do it already. I just got surprised at how obvious it is but those companies somehow did not seem to care much and did not edit those details out (maybe too much work?)
maybe the flickering/clipping part would be extremely time consuming to edit, but that can't be true for the forehead shadow that GAN gives as a side effect when cloning faces (eg: deepfake, etc)
then again, I never did lengthy editing on images/videos, so this is just my uneducated guess
I feel like a good ol' naive "content aware" filter in PhotoShop would do the trick, and even if done manually, you could probably do it in less than a week...it's not that much work for a large company
@Enet4 what's your upvote face then?
 
@NordineLotfi :<
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine <:>
 
12:44 PM
@Enet4 your downvote face looks friendly for some reason, while the upvote one looks sad. It almost tempts me to take downvotes more happily?
maybe it's ":< it's actually a good question, too bad...guess it's worth an upvote though" could be what you're thinking when you upvote a post
 
@NordineLotfi Downvotes are not unfriendly.
 
It's been way too long since I used that easter egg
 
@VLAZ I know, I meant the face specifically
 
It accurately shows no unfriendliness.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine what do you mean, the regex above or the face?
 
12:46 PM
<[^>]>
 
Try pasting that
 
Only works in the desktop version of chat though
 
<[^>]>
wow, what's happening
this is so fancy I'm actually surprised to see it in chat
 
@NordineLotfi awesome is happening.
 
12:48 PM
yeah, you won't see that in anything new
 
are there other easter eggs aside from this one? (either in chat or outside of it?)
 
I don't get it
 
In chat, there's a few
 
12:49 PM
Mobile is boring.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Gaaah, the post that hurts my eyes...
 
<[^>]> is one of the smallest regexes that match the, ironically, regex for checking if a regex matches HTML
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine what? how come I never heard of those...do you know some guide or list so I could try them in another room (so I don't spam)
 
@NordineLotfi Looking for the list right now
 
12:50 PM
ah
 
94
Q: What Easter eggs do the chat sites have?

MosheAccording to balpha, the SE chat sites may have individual Easter eggs, depending on the site. If you find them, please post. Because it's so easy to make this stuff up, a screenshot as proof would be nice. (Although Photoshop isn't that hard either...)

 
Oh, this is fun.
 
:O Thank you, this is nice
 
Oh. :( It stopped when I posted a new message. D:>
 
One might even say
 
12:51 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship noticed that too :/ I guess we could always try it in another room and see how long it last (or if it repeat)
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Kidding, the smallest is <[^>]
 
Neh. I’m going back to the mobile view, which has been bothering me lately, with an increasing number of bugs fucking with me.
 
@VLAZ this really cool yeah
@CodyGray I actually got confused too when I noticed they looked similar but had different brand and url...not sure why but the reason isn't obvious to me
 
🍿🍿🍿
 
well, it's begun.
 
Shit has officially hit the fan
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I strongly believe it is just the beginning drop of shit hitting the accelerating fan.
 
I'd like to think of the shit as coming from a hose that's currently being turned on
 
1:44 PM
welp, there goes my popcorn
 
ew
2
 
Waiting for a more official post to get involved. Like an answer or an announcement from SE.
 
I'm still waiting on an answer to my comments
Gonna leave a third comment if I'm still ignored after dinner
 
on which post?
still trying to catch up after the holiday weekend
 
@aynber internally
 
1:54 PM
yeah, the internal GPT-related announcement
I asked for a timeline on when an official announcement was planned, which was ignored
 
ah, okay
 
I left another comment this morning emphasising the importance of either a meta post or being able to discuss it when it's a policy that took effect immediately
SO mods have discussed our options internally, with a strike being the #1, and blatantly ignoring the policy being #2, both of which are nuclear options
(for now anyway, it hasn't even been a day, so stuff is going to change)
 
usually does
 
I wonder: in what (non-stupid) ways can the company push back against moderators not wanting to enforce a new bad policy?
 
The easiest way for them would be to overturn our decisions
Which, at SO's scale, is a significant amount of work
 
2:06 PM
@Enet4 Fire everybody, and appoint obedient dolls.
 
In stupid ways, they can remove mods, but if the entire mod team collectively agrees not to enforce the policy, and everyone actively takes actions violating the policy, that would mean removing the entire mod team, and that's incomprehensibly stupid
 
Hence the "(non-stupid)" part.
 
Re-electing enough people to replace the current mod team, and ensuring the new mod team wouldn't do the same thing is not happening
They'd have to replace the mod teams with CMs, and there aren't enough CMs to pull the load
 
1
Q: Should we merge tag [fbconnect] into [facebook]?

General GrievanceSince facebook-connect is a synonym for facebook, I think it makes sense that fbconnect should also be a synonym since they refer to the same thing. Guidance says: fbconnect is an abbreviation for the Facebook Connect sdk which serve as a means to connect to the facebook servers.

 
According to the meta post, there's 14 CMs. There's 26? SO mods alone
Replacing the mod team with CMs would require everyone to exclusively work on SO, so if we go with that option, there's realistically no consequences
 
2:51 PM
i mean, assuming we expect them to pick up the slack at all
 
Yeah, this assumes a scenario where the entire CM team is unconditionally and without protest reassigned
Which isn't going to happen, because several members of the CM team have management-type roles that can't just be reassigned
 
3:35 PM
SO just updated the voting buttons on my end. :[
 
... And now the new voting buttons were just pushed through. They like screwing us over. — Andreas detests censorship 34 mins ago
 
@Enet4 Elevators everywhere!
 
That would be an elevator with a very bad UX;
_Please insert a number, and then click a button for traversing this number of floors upwards or downwards_
 
am I the only one who doesn't hate the new voting buttons?
 
what the python the programming language is this new voting button??
 
3:41 PM
I think they look more like buttons now, which is good, we want people to press them to vote on posts.
 
@RyanM I don't hate them, either. I just find the new design funny. See: elevators. I also think the old one was much neater in how it was displayed. But honestly, I don't really have a huge issue withthe change.
 
to be honest, I do admit the design could work, but I don't know...this is gonna need some getting used to for me
 
My primary issue is the announcement made some rather important admissions at the bottom that are unrelated to this change
 
@RyanM @Zoe accepts them too, but she can't possibly have read all the critique over the statistics used to accept them.
 
If they’re gonna lower the barrier for voting, that’s an entirely different thing from changing the way the buttons look
 
3:44 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship I apparently haven't
 
Here's why I hate them. I try to read stuff, but no, SE isn't letting me read stuff in peace and tranquility!
in SO Close Vote Reviewers, 37 mins ago, by Andreas detests censorship
They're really ugly and noisy. They scream for attention. I try reading the posts, but my eyes are constantly drawn to the voting buttons.
 
maybe they should make the voting buttons part of the background of the page. That would significantly lower the barrier for voting for sure
 
The new design is distracting, by design. They’re not easier to see, I find it frustrating to see a border that I can barely see
 
[feature-request]: switch the position of the vote buttons and the content
 
"I'm trying to copy paste from SO, but now there this arrow pointing upward and further down, another weird arrow pointing downward? What is this, does anyone have any userscript to get rid of this?"
 
Stack Overflow, tinder edition
 
You know, if you look into vector theory, and think that everything could be related to vectors, and then stretch the concept of voting buttons towards that of vectors arrows, you could further think that, yes, you do not need the questions or the answers to help you. All you need is trust in the vectors and follow their direction. Therein lies the solution(s)
@Andreasdetestscensorship I immediately thought of Tiktok, but then I recalled it's not right/left but up/down hmm
 
I've never used TikTok.
 
I didn't either, but I mean, I did watch people use it on Youtube
there also youtube shorts which is basically the same thing
 
Yes, both hosted on surveillance horny servers.
 
3:58 PM
I glanced back at this screen and only saw the last two words of that message
 
Zoe... Watch over your eyes.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine huh, same, xD
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Sorry, I can only watch through my eyes
 
oh, the imagery
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine We all know you have a thing for hardware. ;)
 
4:04 PM
that reminds me, I used to be able to see very far in great detail (eg: over 3-4 meter when looking at small writings or small font size writing for example). Could also see in decent details when looking at things from 1milimeter from the eyes. Now I see blurred in both of those situations. :/
 
welcome to the blurry side
3
 
Intoxication can make the eye-sight blurry. SO is not a safe haven for those that wish to keep their sight. It's so toxic here
 
Went to the ophthalmologist a couple of days back, but their diagnosis is a bit weird: Got slight hypermetropia and astigmatism but there is no mention of the reverse of hypermetropia, which should be myopia...
I told them about my past vision but I don't think they believed me. Welp
 
@Mithical don't know if I should be sad or happy that I'm not the only one. I guess I'll go with the latter...at least I got some pair of glasses that might help with that
 
4:10 PM
I've been wearing glasses since I was 8 years old
 
hmm, never got any aside from the "anti glare" ones for screens
I guess 2023 is time of changes
 
@Mithical Roughly same. Switched to contacts a few years ago though
 
Help I went full Meta
 
did you ask on Meta about Meta?
 
0
Q: The tag [non-nullable] and [nullable] should be synonyms of [nullability]

user16217248I am reasking Make [non-nullable], [nullable] and [nullability] synonyms because the old question originally asked a different question (Make non-nullable synonym of nullable) so the voting on the old one is muddied. The tags are opposites but of the same idea. A pointer or reference can be nulla...

 
4:28 PM
also, I managed to find what their optical software used for making diagnostic: ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5206848
there a lot of eye related condition in that dataset. I don't recall the software they used though and it probably does not matter since there is no way it's open source...
I wish they knew the font they use on their "tell me what letter is on the screen" thingie. Wanted to reproduce it in pygame or tkinter
I guess I could always do it with a different font anyway
 
4:56 PM
I went full Meta SE rep farmer
 
@Enet4 Valuable cargo.
 
5:44 PM
0
Q: Selected voting buttons on this site could use more contrast

Quack E. DuckI noticed that as of today, the design change to the +/- buttons which I recall seeing discussed a while ago has been implemented. The circles around the up and down arrows does (in my opinion) make it more clear that they're clickable buttons, and that's great! BUT, once you actually press one ...

 
6:33 PM
David Gibson on May 29, 2023
Our senior data scientist goes deep in talking about how we built our course recommendation engine.
 
7:04 PM
@KevinB 'muricah, fuck yeah
Fire 10% of the workforce and brag about it
 
meanwhile it still overwhelmingly just presents python courses to everyone
regardless of context
their ad targeting also seems pretty poor. When i browse with my blocks off all i get are these 2 ai ads from the same company, over and over, on every page, regardless of tag
 
7:20 PM
-1
Q: Python kivy-ios Not found '_SHA256.so'

Billy 123I'm using pyrebase in my kivy code and when I compile it to xcode I get this error, incompatible platform (have 'macOS', need 'iOS-sim')), Not found '_SHA256.so'

 
7:50 PM
0
Q: If I can not ask more questions, what alternative do I have to get mre chances for future questions?

Hermann RaschI understand that traying to make a very good Question can be hard. But the issue I face now is how and until when I will be allowed to makemore questions at all. Since the questions used at least seem not to be either to relevant or not as important by the forums point of view.

 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine ^
 
Starring for attention, not because I like it.
 
Yeah, this is fishy. Moderators were hinting that they'd be granted more tools, not that they would no longer be able to use them
 
7:57 PM
more tools -> "you will have less tools! There your tools"?
 
Anyway, the implication of the announcement is that GPT is no longer banned
They want GPT to be banned, but they're also forbidding us from detecting GPT. The internal policy states that only people freely admitting they're using GPT can be considered evidence
There have been some exceptions added to this, but none large enough to allow us to actually enforce the GPT ban
 
welp, welcome to the minus infinite downvoted answers made from LLM and auto out of context generated comments
 
Basically, SE just said "fuck content quality, we need our stats to go up"
 
so it can only be used in cases where GPT decided to provide what we'd already consider a "low quality answer", which it by design never does
 
They've banned every single form of detection, by the way
 
8:02 PM
...
 
Even comparing to actual output from CGPT isn't allowed anymore
 
by "it" i meant actions against these users
not a given tool
 
The only two exceptions are users admitting to using CGPT, and answers that have "obviously been copy-pasted from ChatGPT", with the "obvious" being more or less defined as anything containing AI-specific phrases (i.e. the knowledge cutoff and recommendations to ask on a forum/similar)
 
so you're telling me, even if I literally make a video showing, even 1 second after the answer is posted, to prevent editing suspicion, and auto generate the same 1:1 answer as the one on SO, using only the OP question/post, they just won't care? Great, context is out of the window
 
i mean, proof that an ai can be prompted to give an identical response isn't necessarily the most concrete
probably not a great example
 
8:05 PM
I'm not talking about targeted prompting, I'm talking about literally acting the same way some very intelligent people that post generated answer does, where they just take the OP post badly copy pasted with the upvote/downvote count, and literally copy paste ther output as answer
you can reproduce those easily, 1:1 as I did myself a month ago (some people can attest as I showed images proof and you could even sometimes get same result on your end)
 
what i'm gathering from the response is they found that the users most affected by these suspensions reside predominately in a specific country or set of countries
 
@KevinB that is correct
 
yep, and they did not do any research to check what caused that bias
 
that's definitely interesting, and certainly likely to confirm our suspicions
 
They blame it on false positives, several mods suspect it's a bias elsewhere (and based on TP stats from SO, realistically, that they're answering with more GPT answers for some reason we can only speculate to)
 
8:08 PM
That bias isn't real as much as those same countries using say, Khan academy...And there was admittedly a lot of high rep, US based user who also went out of their way to use generated answer even when they technically did not need to based on their current "skills" on the related tags (if their badges, answers record, and reps is to be valued as an indicator of course)
 
They're treating all these different cultures as one unified blob with all the same intentions; that because the US and a few other countries have a low rate, high rates elsewhere are false positives, and not caused by cultural and situational differences that, through some unknown process, prompts more GPT answers
 
they talk about inclusion, but they don't listen to feedback, they mentions bias and false positive in "heuristics", while they also do the same thing, but more
I don't even know anymore. Is this what you all went through in 2019?
 
2019, and several times prior
 
Not sure about from a mod perspective (I was elected in 2021), but a lot of the same signs were present then, yes
 
ah, it's really something else when you're close up rather than hearing about it from heavily edited post and news outlet
 
8:11 PM
Obviously garbage interpretations of data seem to run rampant for some reason
 
it's easy to just handwave away stuff like this as "the old guard" needing to just leave/be excluded, but it's a mischaracterization of what's happening.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine great
 
that's how we were treating in 2019, it still stands to be seen how this one will be treated
 
> biases for or against residents of specific countries as a potential result of the heuristics being applied to these posts
the actual f**k?
> internal evidence strongly suggests that the overapplication of suspensions for AI-generated content may be turning away a large number of legitimate contributors to the site
I sincerely hope their internal evidence suggests that doing things like this is going to be turning away an even larger number of legitimate contributors
 
it's going to temporarily make the answer number go up
 
8:16 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine it doesn't based on their wording, and even if it did, they probably won't care if they think it will make more money go their way or "we can use AI for that"
the self-contradiction is strong in this one
 
once word is out that users can just freely post ai genned answers with no repercussions, good luck
 
it's gonna be Quora 2.0
 
@NordineLotfi yes
from a mod perspective, very similar
 
I feel your pain then, even if it's just a speck of dust compared to what you all went through
 
@NordineLotfi It's not just Quora 2.0
SO is the next Yahoo Answers if they continue down this path
 
8:19 PM
if curators stop curating... there's nothing they can do to stop this from being yahoo answers
 
well, I certainly didn't expect the level of arguments from SE to be on the "my sources in Kremlin said" level. Sigh.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine You didn't?
That's their entire MO
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I... dunno, I guess I did. Just ranting a little.
The tone of the announcement is, frankly, insulting too.
 
oddly appropriate though
 
it's like a, I don't know, "holier than thou"?
 
8:21 PM
This is the comment I left to ask for a timeline on when the announcement would be posted:
> Is there a timeline for when this insult to all the effort we've made to keep our communities clean goes live on MSE?
I did not expect it to have a that insulting tone, but hey, it's fun when comments age well
Until you think about the reason. Then it's just sad
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine This is sad, but I felt laughing energy when you mentioned Yahoo answers...this is sad yeah
 
The part about country bias is especially insulting.
 
unironically though, this is how SO can actually end; burried in tons of AI garbage until it loses all credibility and silently dies
 
So... they took a look at the list of users, saw that there is a non-statistically irrelevant number of "offenders" from a list of countries and used it as justification. Am I interpreting this correctly?
 
8:24 PM
so they literally did the same exact thing they accused the community of doing when cleaning generated answers
 
ironically, yes
It cannot be denied that there is a bias, and it cannot be denied that the detectors are unreliable, but at best, you ban AI detectors from being the only detection source
They just blanket banned every detection method instead, including the reliable ones
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine thanks for confirming. Another quick question - from what I understand, what is in the post ("apply a strict standard") and what was the actual guidance ("stop, period") are different, correct?
 
One sec, I seem to have lost the right window
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Sort of
the "very strict standard" means a near stop in moderating
 
neat, so now when a user asks how to earn rep, we can just suggest they use cgpt to spam answers and earn some rep
 
The official internal guidance is exactly what the comment said
 
8:28 PM
@ZoestandswithUkraine welp, suspected as much, thanks.
 
The bit in [...] is "using GPT detectors to substantiate claims of GPT usage and to stop", so the official guidance is indeed "stop suspending over CGPT content"
 
I am now wondering whether I am at an "anger" stage or just skipped it in favor of the "acceptance" one. With a severe case of disappointment.
 
There's several contradictions and shit, and a CM verified that part of t he reason for this is a significant drop in answers per answerer that happened to start when the suspensions did
They're essentially saying that they believe the GPT suspensions caused the drop in answerers
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine ugh.
 
If you then want to be conspiratorial, one could potentially suspect that the entire reason for blaming GPT detectors is so they get their answer stats back up
They're completely throwing quality out the window if they do, but they'd get their stats
 
8:31 PM
@ZoestandswithUkraine I wouldn't be surprized at this point.
 
One down though
One more to go
... this week. Fuck knows what we'll be told next week
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine i mean, whether you accept it or not it's happening, so it's probably best to skip the anger and move on to action, or lacktherof
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I'm solidly in the anger phase. There's very few things they can do that actively kills the site, but not allowing us to enforce an AI ban is solidly one of the most damaging things they could do right now
 
@KevinB yup, I will... once the second one hits
 
if the upcoming change is what i think it is, it's a change i've been asking for for years
but i suspect it'll be slanted in a way that defeats the reason i want it
i've wanted the voting reputation thresholds revisited, or even removed for years simply because the people in the best position to indicate whether or not a given post is useful, thus far, have been unable to do so other than through anonymous votes that do didly squat. what i expect them to do, given how manipulative their changes have been recently, is to remove that barrier only for upvotes.
 
8:44 PM
let's wait and see when it hits, I suppose. I wouldn't even be mad at the change in generated content policy if they'd: publicly and extensively discuss the changes with us; provided data-driven support for their claims; provided better tooling for us to deal with garbage content. But heck, let's, again, say that curators are the source of all evil and impose a decree.
The level of inaptitude on SE's part baffles me to no end.
 
Also worth noting that they didn't discuss it with mods either, in spite of there being a policy stating that a policy change like this is to be discussed with the mods prior to being published
They've gotten plenty of unsolicited feedback bashing their decision, but they don't give a fuck
 
yup, that too. And it shouldn't've been a mod-policy change in the first place.
What the actual ****, the way SE handled this looks exactly how my government handles things. Precisely like it.
 
Sigh, I need a break
This has been hogging my attention today
 
sigh, yeah, we all do
 
you know, I have a palpable suspicion that if they actually do do what KevinB mentioned above, with the "upvote barrier" removed, then they might use that as bias/excuse to say "look, even though we have removed the ban on generated answers, it actually contributed to the site's great answers! that means it was a good idea after all"
 
8:58 PM
I wouldn't be surprized at all if those actions are closely related.
 
I still believe that their long-term plan now has shifted to providing AI-generated answers in some capacity
No clue what capacity, but it doesn't really matter
 
and that voting barrier being removed might also make it harder to detect voting fraud...
at that point, depending on the voting as metric for good answers will be useless
 
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