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00:46
I have a notification that apparently I cannot see. The notification count is at 1 but there is nothing unread in my inbox. I even went to the global one. Nothing unread there, either. Went through a couple of pages, just in case. I waited for a bit just in case of caching. Well, it's been about 5-10 minutes. Nothing has changed. I even got another notification I could see. That didn't "unclog" it. Finally had to mark all as read.
 
2 hours later…
02:28
If someone preemptively asks "please upvote/accept the answer if you find it useful" in an answer, I should edit that out, right? Do I also need to flag or something?
0
Q: Should correct answers be downvoted if a well answered duplicate question exists?

tgdaviesI sometimes see good answers to duplicate questions. I vote to close the question as a duplicate. If the older question has as good an answer as the new duplicate, should I downvote the new answer? On the one hand, the answerer should have looked for a duplicate question, but on the other hand it...

 
2 hours later…
04:00
0
Q: Why should I fail an audit in the First Questions queue for downvoting a question? If not serial or fraudulent voting, isn't the way I vote my choice?

userI just failed this first questions audit task: https://stackoverflow.com/review/first-questions/33958097 for this question: How to implement a power function using variable templates. I was aware that it was an audit because I saw the high view count and opened the question in a new page and saw ...

04:25
@NewPosts "I wanted to downvote a question due to a problem with the answer. Why did I fail an audit for doing that?"
because audits are dumb
I mean this one seems fine
they are often dumb but there's nothing wrong with this one
Well, the purpose of audits is to make sure that reviewers are aware. I don't see any benefit in reviewing audits (not even a badge) and I guess always skipping them is another solution.
I'm being a little snarky here but also the many forces that result in questions being answered like this are annoying.
Including (especially) the insistence on attempts.
but also c'mon, as an answerer, read the title and include either 1) a fixed version, or 2) a statement that you can't do that.
04:42
0
Q: Downvoting is Going to Eventually Destroy Stackoverflow

IKEThe Issue I am probably very sensitive to this, and have been through four user-self reincarnations as a result of cancelling my membership and through rejoining. But the vexing problem to me is the un-systematic use of downvotes and indeed celebratory nature of the deed. I'm sure all of us ha...

04:52
how does something have 30k views and so few votes
05:05
because it's only being viewed by signed-out users?
(anyway, the existence of that question makes me feel more justified about creating a particular canonical I had in mind, rather than continuing to try to close certain things as typos)
05:54
0
Q: No Reply from mod on closed question which should not be closed

Leo the lionThere is question which was closed from few people as they were not able to understand the issue while it was clearly written in easy way. Yes there is some gap and instead of filling this gap, users closed that question while i was able to understand and was working. They did not even bother to ...

06:47
@KarlKnechtel Edit it out.
@VLAZ The light mode scheme could be equally gorgeous if it also used purple.
@VLAZ What, no Hot Dog Stand?!
@CodyGray It exists. There are several options
@VLAZ That title is too iconic, too widely-linked... I don't think it should be changed from its original. If the concern is that it doesn't contain the keywords it should in order to allow people to find the question, then such clarification can and should be added to the body of the question.
@VLAZ Wow, that's a lot of options. I'd spend all day just playing with the color schemes and trying to pick one I liked.
@VLAZ I'll just edit in a comment to the post body, telling people not to change the title. How's that for consensus?
@CodyGray My main concern is that people would keep coming in and trying to change the title. I don't particularly care what the title is. I'm fine with the old one. I have the muscle memory to find it.
See my previous message, which replies in advance to your previous message.
07:00
Yes, I was in the process of writing and posting my message when your reply appeared just before I finished :)
Also, this is yet another case where more granular locks would be useful. For example, if I could lock a post only against edits (because, honestly, nobody needs to be editing that question anymore), but not prevent voting, commenting, etc.
@VLAZ That specific example/question should be closed as a duplicate of this: stackoverflow.com/questions/27830633/… and/or stackoverflow.com/q/24997751
I added both to the dupe list.
The one for your chat message?
@NewPosts Oh, it showed up on Meta. Why do I even bother with chat, then? I don't want to answer it in two places.
@KarlKnechtel Yes. No. (Yes, definitely/always edit this type of thing out of posts. For comments, just flag the comment(s) as no longer needed. You only need to raise a mod flag if it becomes a pattern; i.e., if someone is doing it over and over in all their posts, and keeps doing it even after you've edited it out once or twice.)
Bonus tip: it is generally not necessary to leave a comment under the post explaining the reason for your edit, as that just moves the meta-commentary into a place where it is only slightly more acceptable (from the post to the comments), but still just as noisy. A better place to put this admonition/explanation is in the revision comment when you submit the edit to the post.
@CodyGray Sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking. I added both the ones you showed to the question about (18392.19 * 10 * 10) === (18392.19 * 100). Is that a coherent answer?
@VLAZ Oh, I didn't realize there was an actual question... I thought the example was just one you contrived in chat.
07:11
🚽
@NewPosts Virtually everyone who complains about downvotes has the same misunderstanding in common: they want this to be a discussion site.
> ...the person downvoting remained anonymous and just added absolutely nothing to dialogue.
Yeah, I mean, that's literally the whole point of the vote system, is that you can vote quickly and expediently, without any noise.
@NewPosts Sigh. Raised 2 mod flags and were explicitly told in response to each one that this is not something that should be addressed via moderator flags. Yet still seems to have no idea.
@CodyGray Wild guess - they didn't read the response.
Nope. Just found out that's because they were looking in their inbox.
That's not completely unreasonable. Too bad they didn't ask that, instead of starting to hurl insults, accusations, and other nonsense.
07:27
I LIKE DOG GLASSES youre the worst
No, I can't fully replicate the style...
No, you're doing it wrong, @AndrewT. You have to insult people, calling them high or illiterate or something. You can't talk about what you like.
07:50
> Well it's Cody it is not.
What is this I don't even
> The natural balance would be equal number of upvotes for the question and answer each. Downvotes contribute nothing.
Unless downvotes are needed to achieve the natural balance?
Same amount of upvotes is easy - they can both be, say, 5. Then the downvotes do indeed contribute nothing when the balance is struck. Were you to downvote the question three times and the answer four times, the number of upvotes remains equal. Balance has been preserved!
See, downvotes are still contributing something valuable!
07:56
But yeah - I really don't see how that is ever achievable. I won't be doing a SEDE query to find questions with same upvotes / score as answer but I'd posit the number of matching ones is exceedingly small. We'd probably have to discard no or 1 voted posts.
And if that was indeed "the natural balance", then if there are more than one answers, then they'd all have the same votes. Which is trivially provable as false by taking basically any two question with more than one answer. I'm only saying "two questions" because by chance you might randomly get a question with two answers both at score 1 or both at score 2. That happens. The chance of getting two of those questions is very very small.
Doesn't the law of entropy say that the natural balance is a bunch of downvotes?
I've not read the law in a while. Maybe it is.
08:28
Just woke up, where's my bingo card
08:40
You seem underprepared. You should be sleeping with your bingo card under your pillow just in case you need to tick off items in a hurry.
I always wake up ticked off. It's a huge timesaver.
> Would you also consider a vote up for compensate DownedVoters ?
Some voters seem to be downed. Should somebody do something about it?
I found this guide, which might be helpful.
-3
Q: Verifying the links provided by ChatGPT

imxitizI asked ChatGPT for a few links about the use of shorthand in StackOverflow, and it provided three links: Certainly! Here are a few examples of discussions on the StackOverflow Meta site related to the use of shorthand and informal language: Why is using "plz" or "u" as an alternative to "please"...

> Some hunters use a stick or bow tip to prod the rear of the animal to see if there is a response.
OK, need to find a stick to poke the voters with.
09:23
@NewPosts I get to really, really dislike ChatGPT.
@NewPosts I would totally have believed those were all real threads and it just got the links wrong
And, I mean, not in total. But as any sort of information source. I'm completely fine with it as a source of entertainment.
but no, they're invented from whole cloth
@RyanM Yeah, searched the titles just to be sure, as well.
except for How to deal with user using txt spk, which is mostly real.
09:27
@RyanM First three comments :chefskiss:
Pekka is definitely missed.
@VLAZ itym 1st 3 cmts
thx d00d
np lol
ya lol w/e ev1
09:33
Migration, I know feed doesn't pick those up:
-3
Q: Why stackoverflow closes book suggestion questions?

The ParhamDevI don't understand why a site this big, whose job is to help programmers who are in trouble, doesn't allow anyone to ask questions about a recommended book. I asked about three times about a recommended book about several different APIs, and all my questions were closed in less than a day, and e...

I thought it did, usually, eventually, sometimes
...guess we'll see!
-6
Q: Why stackoverflow closes book suggestion questions?

The ParhamDevI don't understand why a site this big, whose job is to help programmers who are in trouble, doesn't allow anyone to ask questions about a recommended book. I asked about three times about a recommended book about several different APIs, and all my questions were closed in less than a day, and e...

ban feed plox
lets you see the score progression though
meanwhile I'm curious what Yennefer has to do with this
Lol, I was trying to work it into a joke as well :D
09:40
You see why that failed, then. The question is already a joke.
ha, I'm not the only one who went there:
@CodyGray from The Witcher perhaps. — Robert Longson 17 secs ago
let the record reflect that I was slightly faster with that joke.
I don't even know what that is.
Video game, made into a surprisingly good Netflix series
Polish fantasy book series turned into game series. Most recently there were also TV (Netflix?) series.
oh right I forgot about the books
09:45
I only watched the first season and I found it to be too confusing. They are jumping back and forth in time. In, like, the span of a decade? More? But the scenes are back to back and it took me maybe half the season to realise it's not linear. They'd set up some characters, then some battle elsewhere and I expected that maybe they'd meet. Not that the characters were frolicking in the meadows 20 years before the battle.
Don't get me wrong, the actual show is OK. I just wish there was a clearer cut what happened when. Or maybe it could have been more linear with not as many jumps.
Haven't watched the second season.
> yenfer is not a special person
0
Q: Can I close my account on just this SE?

Neil MeyerI would like to close my account but only on the StackOverflow SE. The others do at least allow me to contribute. Exactly how many millions of views you must bring to this website before you are allowed to ask a question on your python webscraper is unclear to me. If it possible to have all your ...

10:03
> Exactly how many millions of views you must bring to this website before you are allowed to ask a question on your python webscraper is unclear to me.
yeah those 1.8m views were all you I'm sure
But hey, the number of people reached!
(which is far larger than mine)
@RyanM It is sad that a user who attracted that many views to one question alone by themselves is now leaving the site. Should we do something? Or is there already an emergency SE meeting to handle the crisis?
@AndrewT. (and mine)
@RyanM What is the relevance? Did they answer that?
@VLAZ I think we should raise a "community emergency" escalation.
@CodyGray I confused you (VLAZ) with Andrew T, who, as a moderator, would actually know what that meant, because I was reading too quickly.
@CodyGray Yes
@CodyGray Don't worry, I live in a perpetual state of confusion anyway.
@CodyGray Yes. In 2020. Almost 12 years after it was posted. It's the vast majority of their people reached.
10:15
flagged for in need of moderator community intervention
@VLAZ Oh, great, with an off-site link.
To be fair they also put it in a Stack Snippet, that's fine. I think. I didn't actually check if they were the same.
Wow. Such reach. Very high.
 
4 hours later…
13:58
Not sure if this is the right place tho ask, please point me in the right direction if not.

I wanted to create a [burninate-request] for this tag:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/portfolio

However, 5 years ago, someone else alreade created a Meta post for this:
https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/346096/can-we-remove-this-tag-from-our-portfolio

Since that post hasn't been touched in 4 years, should I
- Create a new [burninate-request]
- Improve the existing post
@CodyGray I agree that comments are nearly as noisy as what is being removed. However, my goal is to communicate to the person who made the edit necessary. As best I understand, the author won't ordinarily see an edit summary... right?
@0stone0 second point. reiterating an existing burn request just gets your post closed as a dupe. The burn backlog is also massive, so repeating an existing burn request doesn't really help
Ah oke, thanks @ZoestandswithUkraine. Since the post is quite broad (see first comment about the missing points), I'd probably rewrite 90%, so if thats fine, I'll do that if I have the time ;)
14:17
@KarlKnechtel "significant" edits will send a notification to the author. I forget the exact criteria but it's a body edit to the post and up to so many characters. Others edits deem "insignificant" by the system will not send a notification.
The notification links to the diff of the revision.
14:30
 
1 hour later…
15:36
> Here's some code, can you tell me if it works?
imagine t hat
so, this staging ground bit. I can't help but think this is generally gonna make the site seem even more unfriendly, if it works correctly, to users who think it's a discussion forum. Which... is a good thing for "the goal" of the site, but is it what SO (the company) is going for?
Not sure if that matters?
I mean how often has the company done stuff the community clearly said was bad for the site?
If this one thing is good for the site but not what the company is going for, are you gonna tell them?
15:51
@TylerH I have seen people do this a lot on SE too. Usually they don't know or don't *try*/run the answer before accepting it, but, since they might also not know they can remove/choose another answer to accept than the wrong one (or to just think thoroughly before accepting), this kind of things happen
The thing that gets me is not removing the checkmark when they realize it, but making the effort to comment
yeah, that one is weird. Even if I didn't check the docs or meta, I would probably try to hover the mouse or click to remove it even if I didn't know
Meanwhile, the same kind of thing happen with upvote. But that one is harder to prove, unless people admit it: stackapps.com/questions/3105/…
@NordineLotfi Upvotes are a little different since they are locked in after 5 minutes
if the user doesn't have 2k rep, it's even harder to undo it
16:11
@CodyGray I personally have been meaning to take Yenfer down a notch or two for quite some time.
@VLAZ Good to know
@TylerH true. didn't know about the latter (needing 2k rep to undo it) though
well, 2k is just for being able to create an edit to force unlock the vote
it's a workaround that shouldn't be abused unless there's actually improvements that you can make on the post
16:39
^
if you have 2k you can, theoretically, make an edit and then roll it back immediately so that you can change your vote.
if you do that a lot, though, you'll probably get a talking-to from moderators
ideally you'd see an actual improvement to make and just leave an edit in place, though
IMO I think votes should not lock in until much later. At least an hour, but I'd go as high as 24 hours
And then I would unlock them again after a year
since the point of locking in a vote is to prevent abuse/tactical voting, there isn't really a reason to keep them locked beyond a certain point.
eh, well
there's this thing you can do, with the current system, that i think it was meant to prevent
you can, every few minutes, change your vote with the current system as long as you want, as long as you always revert it within the 5 minute window, creating a bunch of notifications for the poster
causing an annoyance, a form of trolling, limiting it to 5 minutes makes the window of doing so much shorter
i don't think 5 min is short enough to prevent that abuse, and as such i think it's unnecessary to lock it at 5min
@KevinB not as long as you want
you are blocked from changing it after changing it like 10 or 15 times
I was testing something a couple of months ago and ran into a system message telling me "you have voted too many times on this question"
I didn't keep track of how often I had changed my vote, but it was at least 10, probably closer to 15
Ah, so there's already a different system in place to put an end to it, within reason
17:12
1
Q: Is there a way to suppress the Collectives annotations?

user2554330SO has just created an R collective. This means that posts that used to be tagged with r are now tagged both with R and r, and users who have been "collectivized" have extra junk printed with their names. Is there a way to suppress this? I'm not interested in the fact that someone has just join...

Yeah, first time I had ever seen anything like that message; I was surprised since it was unexpected but it made sense; I'm glad it is in place
although a warning would be nice on the penultimate vote
0
Q: First Questions/First Answers/Late Answers reviewers should be partially or fully exempt from the suggested edit queue size

user16217248The suggested edit queue has a maximum size, which is supposed to make sure edits are getting reviewed at a rate which can be managed by the available reviewers. This queue size is the same for all users that are less than 2k reputation. However, since this queue is full more often than it is not...

 
1 hour later…
18:24
Anyone know offhand which XKCD is the one about programmers recoiling in horror at the idea that other people trust their work?
xkcd.com/2030 - this one?
yes, thank you
I really didn't know what to search for
@TylerH It honestly hadn't even occurred to me that an edit removed during the grace period would remove the lock
@KarlKnechtel Yeah, any edit changes the last modified date, which I think is all that the counter looks at
19:17
"xkcd programmer trust" seemed to work :-D
Is it just me, or does this look like... spam, or even phishing stackoverflow.com/a/75630954/400654
links to a direct download of a zip file on a... gaming website
eh, yea, absolutely spam, avatar matches logo, lol
19:51
is linked to a zip file
so would not trust it at all
20:48
1
Q: Edit grace period not applied

BergiI just posted an answer and right after submitting it found a typo that I corrected. Usually, this should not create a new revision, but for some reason it did - why? I found Was the 5 minute edit grace period removed? and 5 minute edit grace period not applied? but these don't seem to apply here.

21:36
0
Q: The "edit" magic link behaves strangely when applied to answers

Karl KnechtelA new user incorrectly used the answer section to attempt to respond to comment feedback on the question. I tried to comment on that answer using the [edit] link shorthand, to prompt OP to edit the question instead. However, I found that the resulting link did not work properly. It appeared to op...

21:51
Anybody have a link handy to the appropriate meta Q&A?
That is, to support this assertion:
> Different questions with the same answer are duplicates.
it's controversial
Ah ok, that's why I couldn't recall anything definitive
certain long-term users with diamonds and employees have that opinion, and then there's long-term meta users who disagree
one, of course, has more authority to make that decree, ;)
21:57
:)
i recall catija making that statement recently, with regard to updating the copy around the close dialog
might have been in socvr
Ok, thanks
/me looks
that's actually a bit old, but reflects what i recall seeing recently
:shrug:
22:08
Ah, so Catija is saying the opposite of "different questions with the same answer are duplicates".
Personally, it seems to me that in practice, they actually usually are duplicates
for me, both arguments are correct
there's a grey area inbetween, when it comes to programming, where the two are obviously duplicates, but the asker is unable to make the connection between their problem and the duplicate because they misunderstand the situation at a fundamental level that the duplicate can't hope to resolve
it's like trying to explain looping logic to someone who hasn't yet grasped what looping is
Yeah, it really depends on the specific case
to me, it's like trying to explain the difference between left and right,
but the user clearly is having trouble grasping it
it's fair to argue that the duplicate isn't solving their problem, in such cases, but what duplicate would?
22:14
@KevinB yeah, that's a common case
I guess the definitive answer is: the community decides, case by case. Community members can vote to dupe-close, and other community members can vote to reopen
23:05
that was wierd. i upvoted a comment, some weird popup came up and i reflexivly closed it, and the vote wasn't there. I clicked again, and it said i can't vote again because i've already voted and unvoted
no idea what the popup said
23:23
>When readers see your username, they'll make the judgement that the author of your questions will rely on pleading and sympathy rather than persistence and self-actualisation. I would recommend you change your name to something neutral.
beautiful

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