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1:12 AM
1
Q: Wrong icons shown in reputation drop down

Steve BennettWhile on the academia SE, I clicked on the reputation button and saw this: I actually don't recognise the icon next to all those StackOverflow reputation changes, but it's obviously not correct. On SO it looks like this:

 
1:29 AM
@VLAZ Still up. You might roll your comment into an answer. We may have a "I made a typo in the tag I just created what should I do to fix it?" target available though I haven't looked.
 
2:06 AM
0
Q: Do users get reputation points for doing edits?

glauconDoes a user get reputation points for editing a question ? I ask because I have recently had a question edited in such an inconsequential manner I was left wondering why anyone would bother (fwiw the edit in question did not fit within the list of best practice edit motivations). My best guess wa...

 
 
6 hours later…
8:00 AM
0
Q: Burninate typo tag [golnag]

DominiqueWhile checking the existing tags, I stumbled upon following typo tag: [golnag], which is a typo of [golang] The mentioned typo tag doesn't have any associated questions, so there's no danger deleting it.

 
8:12 AM
0
Q: How to solve the problem of inaccessible local images in a code snippet?

ThomasProblem Every day on SO, I come across questions sharing a stack snippet that has local images in it, which makes the images inaccessible and the problem irreproducible. While this is not always a problem, it often is, especially when the question is about the images... If users would read the gu...

 
 
2 hours later…
9:54 AM
0
Q: Should one Delete a Question if it consider things that are proven wrong

Tomer WI recently posted this question on SO, and while at the time, I thought the mkdir command didn't work, later, I realized that it not the issue, and the problem was caused by something else in my script. My inquiry is: What should I do with the question that is asking of a problem which does not e...

 
 
2 hours later…
12:00 PM
@HenryEcker Posted an answer with references to how tags work.
 
12:57 PM
@NewPosts Shower thought: what if the reasons some tags refuse to die is that they're used on another site in the network?
I'm sure that's trivial to disprove, but what if one of those sites interfere?
It sounds insane and extremely implausible, but that's the exact cause for that translation bug
Another site interferes with a global cache -- so why not?
 
Yeah, who knows.
Could be. the [i] tag might be on Maths.SE maybe as a synonym
 
not math, no
and not english
That's why proving this theory is hard
There's over 170 sites
And worst-case, all of them have to be checked to find a matching tag
 
2 down
 
What was the most recent one?
 
Uh...can't remember.
 
1:05 PM
[how-to]
That has to be trivial
That's one confirmed
Solid confirmation bias here, but it's not like we can properly confirm anyway
And neither can SE, but that's not a technical confirmation problem if you catch my drift
 
Maybe we can try creating one zombie tag. Create a tag on SO which maches a tag on another stack. Then see if it will be removed later.
Trouble is that if it does get removed, it doesn't really confirm anything.
There could be a weird condition to zombify a tag - e.g., has to be used on SO, then somebody from MSE should go check their tag badge. Which would then inject the zombie virus in the tag. Or whatever shenanigans are needed to get it stuck in the cache.
 
1:28 PM
You can find all matching tags network-wide using Stack Exchange Filtered Questions:
or, just find SEDE experts...
But there's also the 6-month auto-removal when the tag is only used on 1 question and doesn't have tag wiki
 
@AndrewT. uhh, why is MSE not shown on there :/
 
hm
Neither i nor in has matches
 
not sure if it might be related to the hard-deleted questions, like "how to program on a boat"...
 
0
Q: Are Site Analytics Regarding Traffic Correct?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2I happened to take a look at Site Analytics for Mechanics.SE today. The traffic count seems funky. Has there been something done to change how site traffic is being counted or is this an issue?

 
2:17 PM
David Gibson on June 22, 2022
The state of software development is…
> The big draws with the Developer Survey have always been the technology rankings, where technologists profess their most used, loved, dreaded, and wanted languages, frameworks, and more.
> 62% of regular Stack Overflow users visit the same question multiple times in a three-month period.
This statistic seems...exceptionally not useful. If you've asked a question, you'd go back to see it. Is this counted? And if you're a regular that searches for dupes, then guess what - you'd be visiting the dupes a lot.
 
@VLAZ also, A/B Trending test?
 
@VLAZ iunno, maybe i just find it super hard to understand returning from an async callback and therefore need to reference it 8 times a day
found the stats presented in the post itself rather boring
 
2:46 PM
same, expected, useless "loved/dreaded" data
 
0
Q: Anonymous moderators?

CerbrusI just came across a question that was closed by a moderator (♦) However, said moderator just has a default (user<number>) username. Seeing as the account has over 200k rep, and is over a decade old, it's obviously someone that has earned his stripes on SO. However, as moderators are elected by t...

 
3:00 PM
@NewPosts queue the pitchforks
 
the one that answers dupes every day
 
@NewPosts there are 2 currently mods with user###
 
also: developer survey results are out
 
> Rust is on its seventh year as the most loved language with 87% of developers saying they want to continue using it. Rust also ties with Python as the most wanted technology with TypeScript running a close second.
Carcinization continues.
 
3:10 PM
TIL: Carcinisation
still, the question remains: WTF is Professional Developer series
 
it was apparently a "series" of additoinal survey questions
that people who don't just willy nilly sign up to things skipped
 
oh, so that is what it meant?
 
-1
Q: Does the 2022 Developer Survey results header announcement lack accessibility?

isherwoodThe header banner text and link look like this (simplified): Results from the 2022 Developer Survey are <a target="_blank" href="https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022">[here]</a>. Any front-end dev should know to never link "here". Is accessibility a priority at SO these days? What's wit...

 
@NewPosts why are there Stack Snippets?
@NewPosts WCAG F84 of 2.4.9, I presume?
 
3:25 PM
@NewPosts it might look better on other sites than SO's dark mode...
 
Where does the survey results define what a "professional" developer is?
 
I suppose from the question about whether you code professionally
 
...
so a useless delineation
 
if you use GitHub Copilot, you code unprofessionally
 
@KevinB pretty much so
@E_net4-MrDownvoter do you even code if you do that?
 
3:30 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine You code to fix the obviously stupid mistakes it makes.
Like setting a NonZeroU32 to NonZeroU32::new(0).
 
@E_net4-MrDownvoter well, it's named copilot, what did you expect? :)
 
-1
Q: The table striping in the 'Developer Profiles\Key Territories' section of the 2022 Developer Survey results make it extremely difficult to read

Wai Ha LeeLink: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#developer-profile-key-territories This is the case regardless of the light mode/dark mode selection. Light mode: Dark mode: Can this be fixed so that, e.g. black (rather than white) text appears on the light grey background?

 
welp, today on Meta: pcking apart the developer survey results
 
funny how often styling fails given how much they hype up stacks
changing between dark mode and light mode on this pc for the survey results page takes ~ 15 seconds
 
@KevinB what did you expect from a library of glorified inline styles?
 
3:37 PM
i think i need a new PC
 
@KevinB the heck?
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I expect nothing and everything.
Including a comment which goes like // this leaks memory, but it's no big deal
 
fairly certain i have a hard drive going bad
plus my cpu is from 2012
 
And the immense favor for comments stating // Note: this is a hack
 
welp, that's what you get for marketing an AI model trained on code monkeys as the solution that will make programmers obsolete
Bonus bug: "Vietnam" is Vietnam, not Viet NamWai Ha Lee 6 mins ago
bwahaha
 
3:40 PM
Where and when did I do that.
 
microsoft store install service using up 60% of my CPU (but i'm not installing anything)
 
@E_net4-MrDownvoter abstract "you", sorry :)
 
0
Q: Extremely low contrast in 2022 Developer Survey results

TheFungusAmongUsThe "All countries" tab in the "Geography" section of the 2022 Developer Survey has extremely low contrast. This affects readability. On low brightness, it is hard to see that there is any text in the white/grey rows. On higher brightness, it is difficult to read. Example below: Link to section ...

 
:[
Viet: Nam
 
i mean, that's how i pronounce it anyway
 
3:42 PM
if that's Vietnamese, the bug is that the letters are wrong, heh
 
> I can't install sanity through VS Code
 
who needs sanity? Just install insanity, that's only fitting
 
> 72% of all respondents were eligible to participate in our Professional Developer section. Of those eligible, 70% agreed to participate, resulting in over 36,000 responses.
so... 70% of eligible people just agree to anything
 
@KevinB Yeah. Reading the description of what "visiting the same question multiple times" means, sounds like you quality if you visit the same question two times. Which you can easily do by accident. Or just by clicking links of similar questions.
 
i go to nearly every question i take action on more than once in a given day
 
4:07 PM
What's a "knowledge silo"? Why do I not remember answering a question related to such a thing?
 
probably because it was hidden behind the "professional developer series"
 
Yeah, probably
 
TIL: "knowledge silo", which I thought is the same as "knowledge repo"
 
@VLAZ The stats are genuinely disappointing
 
can actual people that the survey is meant to target look at surveys before they go out?
 
4:11 PM
@AndrewT. I don't know what either of these is
 
oh, right, that's not how things are done here
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Like the numbers themselves or the type of stats?
 
And I don't mean the numbers themselves, I mean that awfully presented. Like, outright amateur hour
 
I'm just starting to look at the detailed breakdown. I finished reading the blog post now.
@ZoestandswithUkraine Yeah, wouldn't surprise me.
 
knowledge silo = where someone in your organization (or a team) has information or skills that aren't shared across the organization
knowledge repo = Stack Overflow?
 
4:12 PM
we already knew it was going to be a mess due to the questions that were asked
 
Examples include misleading headers, and missed stats
Including my main frustration; "or on your own words:" not only being included in that exact form, but absolutely no stats were run on those
Which is fine, at least if it's grouped in as "other", but what's the point of having an input field if it isn't used?
 
At least include a % for users who used "other"
 
IDEs also annoy me; Neovim isn't the most liked editor in pure quantity
 
tf even is neovim
 
@AndrewT. Thanks. OK, so the blog article used this in a confusing context: "how often do you encounter knowledge silos" - is it how many times you stumble upon stuff where you don't know about but only one person does, or how often you interact with that one person.
@KevinB some Vi/Vim variation?
 
4:15 PM
It's vim, but new, and with all sort of portability or cross-platform support basically yeeted out the window
"new", it has some fancy features
A few of which are pushed to prod without actual portability, which is ridiculous for an editor that claims to have cross-platform support
 
not unsurprising that editors people aren't forced to use are ones people more often use because they like it
 
> Respondents older than 45 years are most likely to have learned from books, while younger ones are learning online.
In other news, water still wet
 
0
Q: Immediately I don't like the synopsis of the results

franji1Can we see the original form of the survey questions. For example, the very first question in the Developer Profile, "Learning How to Code", it made it seem like you only learn from one source (when viewing the data by age). I could have sworn that the question stated "check all that apply". He...

0
Q: Order of answers is completely out of whack in this example

kurastIn this question, the answers are in very strange order. The best by votes and the selected by the OP is placed last: Monthly operations time series with apply.monthly in R If this was a just a bit more severe , I could miss seing the best answer entirely, and the only one that solves my issue. J...

 
@NewPosts lol
 
23% use Vim, and 6% use neovim
 
4:18 PM
> if you don't like the the analysis you can analyze it yourself later
 
but the loved/dreaded stuff is fundamentally flawed, because it's among its users
It doesn't make Neovim the most liked IDE, it just makes it an IDE that's popular with its users
 
it's also missing a data point
 
That's a massive difference
 
using X, and not caring whether or not i use X next year is treated as dreaded
there's no middle between want to use it next year and would hate to use it next year
 
IDE usage overall is also flawed; a lot of people pick everything they've vaguely used once. VS Code might not be used as a driver IDE for a lot of people
 
4:19 PM
this is at least the 3rd year they've collected the data in this way, and the 3rd year we've complained about it
 
that's because it was dumb then, and it's still dumb now
 
I only did the survey for the badge :D
 
BTW, JNat posted some feedback on the meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/417991/… responses. Basically "Thanks for the feedback, we'll try to be better next year" on a couple of answers that I saw (one mine one by Oleg). Maybe there is more feedback forthcoming.
 
I don't understand why I keep complaining to be honest
SE doesn't give a shit in 99.99% of cases
 
Seems odd they deliberately held back generic platitude for after the survey results released. Instead of just addressing it immediately. It's insubstantial anyway.
 
4:23 PM
Because often, when you complain in other areas of life, things change
 
(actually, no, I did the survey this year just to confirm about the anonimity of the survey, which was a question asked on MSO)
 
@KevinB yeah, but you'd think I would've learned by now
 
I'm noticing that some responses have alternative breakdowns. And those are weird in some cases. Like some times, there is a breakdown by age for the answers. Other times not. For "Years coding" there is a breakdown by top 10 countries. But "Years coding professionally" doesn't.
 
Probably because it wasn't interesting
or different from the base
 
Well, we don't know, do we. It would have made sense for the two to be symmetrical.
 
4:29 PM
1
Q: How should I report a grammar mistake in the developer Survey results?

WyckThere's a grammar mistake in the Stack Overflow Developer Survey results overview. The offending sentence is: "Younger (under 18) respondents rely most on online resources and are most likely to of learned from online courses or certifications." The word of should be have. What's the right way...

 
@NewPosts SMH
Peter would not be mad, just disappointed
 
15
Q: Where are the breakdowns of the open-ended questions in the 2021 Survey?

Nick stands with UkraineCan we get some details of the breakdown of results of the open-ended questions in the 2021 Developer Survey? In particular, when asked if we visited another developer community, we were asked to name them, but then no breakdown of what those other communities were was provided. What's the point ...

 
> Node.js and React.js are the two most common web technologies used by Professional Developers and those learning to code.
 
> Node.js and React.js are the two most common web technologies used by people who responded to the survey.
fixed
 
Maybe because you can almost not escape Node.js whatever you do. A lot of the JS tooling is there, so if you need anything that's a common task like bundling, transpilation, minification, etc. you need Node. Even if you just want to lint your code you need that.
Saying it's a "web framework or technology" makes about as much sense as claiming that doors are very often used by Fortune 500 CEOs as well as ordinary people. Yes, but so what? You have to use a door to get places.
 
4:40 PM
Maybe next year i should choose "used" on every tool i want to mark as "i hate this tool"
It's just such a useless collection of data
x% of respondants "like" A, and y% hate A. (but we didn't let people specify they hate A unless they used it this year)
 
Asynchronous tools? That's a very odd way to collect these. I'd say these are more organisation tools.
...and I scrolled down to see "synchronous tools". Which is...isn't exactly correct. They are communication tools. But I can still write somebody in MS Teams and they can respond later.
 
they displayed SO for Teams above jira, even though jira has 12k more users indicating they like it.
if you look through the respondent counts in that chart, jira is the clear winner, followed by confluence (which is owned by the same company and is often integrated with jira)
 
It's the paradox of scores. The more users you have scoring something, the more of a chance some might say they don't completely like it. It's like when you go on amazon and sort by score - if an item has ten thousand 5-stars reviews but also some other reviews, it'd be ranked lower than an item with just three 5-start reviews. Because the average of the latter is higher. Yet, more people would have liked the former.
 
0
Q: "Years of professional coding experience by developer type" is clearly wrong

OrangeDoghttps://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-experience-years-of-professional-coding-experience-by-developer-type The average student apparently has nearly five years of professional coding experience. Presumably what you're actually showing is total coding experience, not professional.

 
4:55 PM
I don't understand this chart. For example, there are two lines between Java and Python. Does that mean that Java developers want to use Python and Python developers want to use Java? If so, what does the one line that is between Java and TypeScript mean - is it Java devs wanting to learn TS or the opposite?
 
it means nothing
because the data collection used to generate it is garbage
 
OK, granted. I'm trying to understand what was supposed to be shown. I'm not trying to draw any conclusions, just decipher the chart.
 
;)
it's saying users who selected "i use python" also chose "i want to use nodejs"
 
It does actually say what it is but...it's white text on yellow background:
OK, so the line that maches the language is "people who used this, want to use this other thing". I had to zoom into my screenshot to be able to read it.
> More people learning to code have visited Collectives on Stack Overflow, suggesting it’s a good resource for people who are getting up to speed on a new-to-them technology.
Erm... or doesn't mean anything. Because I can hardly call it a "resource". With the slightly more than a dozen articles that were up when the survey was going. The rest of the collectives isn't a "resource" any more than what SO is. It's just tags with a picture to them
 
5:12 PM
eh, no, it's suggests your false advertising is working
people who actually know what it is don't use it
 
@KevinB I'd go one step further and just call that interpretation "false advertising"
Or "creative interpretation of the statistics".
If the results were flipped, then the interpretation would have been "Collectives is super awesome for professional developers who clearly find value in it"
 
i did indicate that i visited it in the survey
because, i do
it's a convenient location to find more low quality posts
particularly ones being answered by high rep users
 
5:41 PM
1
Q: A/B testing updated visuals on vote arrows

Cesar MThis week, we're rolling out a test to update the appearance of voting arrows for both questions and answers, which will bring some accessibility gains, namely affordance, feedback, and meeting WCAG compliance; it also maintains aesthetic cohesiveness between services, by bringing them in line wi...

 
meh
 
5:58 PM
I don't get A/B testing purely visual overhaul of the arrow buttons. The function is unchanged as is their position. I sincerely doubt anybody who didn't know where the buttons were or what they did would be affected by the change. Conversely, I don't believe anybody familiar with them would find any change with the interaction ("easier" or "harder"). Or how would you even compare usage statistics anyway?
 
6:14 PM
Just take chaos as evidence
EZ
 
@VLAZ "0.2%, which is statistically significant"
 
6:27 PM
@ZoestandswithUkraine 0.015% mister rice
 
The whole "I know statistics" flex annoyed me
 
i don't dispute that the people running this survey likely know more than me about statistics
that doesn't change that a large portion of what they're claiming is at best misleading
"Rust is on its seventh year as the most loved language with 87%" yet 13k more people indicated they love typescript
 
Yep
Same issue with IDE stats
 
6:43 PM
it is true, that out of 100k some odd users only 1000 love SO for Teams?
err, 70k
out of 70k users, only 7k have visited collectives?
angularjs the "most dreaded", and yet more people "dread" reactjs
(of course, still ignoring the fact the survey doesn't give us the ability to indicate dread)
is it true* ^^^^^
 
7:41 PM
0
Q: how can I report a grammatical error on developer survey results?

xdumaineThe developer survey results contain a grammatical error "...most likely to of learned ..." on two pages. How can I report that for correction?

 
7:59 PM
0
Q: How can I change my password?

Ravindra HVIt looks like I can only 'recover' my password on this site. What do I do if I need to reset my password? There is a similar question here involving use of 'forget-password' but no 'change-password' as such.

 
@NewPosts great, queued my userscript breaking soon
@NewPosts how about putting some actionable guidance for voting into the tour, btw? Or a rewamp of the reminder to not forget to vote on answers? Users don't click on those buttons because they (a) don't care; (b) don't know it is expected (queue self-serving comments to vote/accept); not because the buttons do not look "button" enough
 
8:24 PM
@KevinB Developer survey. Developer survey never changes
 
I just don't understand the need to constantly mistate things. If you already know you're going to want to get X Y and Z out of the data, make that the data you collect. I don't even think it's malicious. just... iunno. careless.
 
eh, isn't it what marketing is about? Intentionally misinterpeting data so as it fits your goals with a sprinkle of superficial references to Statistics™ to sell whatever crap you are making to the suits?
 
sure, however in this case it doesn't even benefit them
lol
I don't think they'd even get different results if they asked the question correctly
 
 
2 hours later…
10:37 PM
 
10:58 PM
We understand that this survey section was not clearly introduced. If we do another professional series we will ensure that the text is more clear. — David Gibson 11 mins ago
 

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