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1:21 AM
@NewPosts ugh, I really hate this situation. I feel the need to close vote the question because it's not a question yet, but then the OP has to jump through some hoops to finally be able to self-answer.
 
 
6 hours later…
7:48 AM
The evidence was here all along. That ship has passed anyway.
 
 
3 hours later…
10:44 AM
-3
Q: How to check model.crt and model.key.bin file matching or not

peter royHow to check model.crt and model.key.bin pair matching or not in bash or python. Thanks.

 
I wonder how long that's going to stick around
 
Until somebody solves the problem and the author validates the answer
 
11:00 AM
@ZoestandswithUkraine What is this I don't even
 
@CodyGray-onstrike C++ clearly being an A in disguise
 
Hmm.
That's more of a reach than staff's claim that we've been relying on AI detectors.
@E_net4isonstrike Are you saving a list of these, perhaps? In case we can all get back to normal?
@Mithical I find it helpful.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Do you want me to? :)
 
I want the same thing you want. :-)
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Duh :p
 
11:13 AM
Well, maybe, perhaps for the worst onees. This is also an opportunity to take a break and focus on more important matters.
 
Are there more important matters than people whining about downvotes?
 
Surprising, I know!
 
I don't even believe it.
 
11:25 AM
Out of interest, if Mods are checking the queues (even if not actioning them) have you noted a fall in volume? Know it's only 48-24~ (depending on timezone) hours into the strike.
 
believe it or not we actually do not have a flags-raised stat
 
You do!?
 
oh is it in the analytics thing I never look at?
 
11:31 AM
Yar. Go to "history", pick a time period, and then look at the very top-left.
flags, average handling time, active moderators, ....
432 flags today. Where "today" is the last 24 hours.
 
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse You sound like our staff at the office... 😫
 
@CodyGray-onstrike hmm, I thought that was flags handled
 
Maybe what you meant is that we don't have a way to tell how many flags have been historically raised per-day? No, not really. Although we can look at the "week" and/or "month" views and extrapolate, especially if we wrote those down before starting the strike, or at least start now.
 
although uh, that would not really add up, would it
 
Yeah, can't be.
60+7+4+2 < 432.
 
11:34 AM
Even accounting for the fact that the table counts posts with handled flags
that would still be ...an unlikely ratio
I mean, plausible for NAAs...or it would be, if SOBotics weren't on strike.
 
I suppose with the bots alone, the number of flags will be down. Though I assume (many of?) those would be repeat flags, such as flags on spam posts which would all be marked "helpful" when enough are raised against the post.
 
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse Oh, BTW, Natty is still active. As in, doesn't post in the channel but would post comments and autoflag still.
This shouldn't be a huge amount, granted, but just wanted to mention it. Somebody raised it yesterday in Discord.
 
ha. Right, because it was "shut down" via revoking its room access...
 
Basically same reaction as me. Somebody asked why was Natty still posting comments and then it hit me.
Some other bots might be "active" in a similar way. IIRC, DharmanBot also collects reports in some place Dharman controls and only mentions them in chat.
 
@ThomA Yeah, that's correct. I think the flags are down significantly, but I haven't really looked into how much, quantitatively.
Amusingly and ironically, we are still getting a ton of flags on AI-generated content.
@VLAZ-onstrike- Oh. Uh... Yeah, that shouldn't be the case. It shouldn't be raising flags for sure.
Who runs Natty? Bhargav still?
 
11:42 AM
I think it's Bhargav.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- Dharman's not on strike, so I guess that's why DharmanBot is still active.
Anyone else with dev access, other than Bhargav?
 
in WhySOBoticsInGalleryMode, 32 secs ago, by Zoe stands with Ukraine
@BhargavRao Natty is apparently still running on main. Can you shut it down?
 
@CodyGray-onstrike I mean that SOBotics was "shut down" but that was just done via revoking write access to all bots. So, the bots themselves are running, just not posting in the room. Some of them only post in the room, so they are effectively "off". Others might do other activities. Queen also reports to Higgs but that's down, so she's "off" as well, I think.
 
I wouldn't say that's a bad thing though. *If* the removal of AI content becomes enforceable again then "we" (the community) will still want that content removed. Finding that content as it's posted is almost always the easier way, as you see if in the active/new posts. Otherwise you end up finding it when using the site in other ways, such as looking for an answer to a programming problem and getting ChatGPT vomit.

If only people understood that if someone wanted to consume ChatGPT Vomit they would ask ChatGPT for said vomit, rather than visiting a different site... /shrug (This is a gene
 
11:45 AM
Are you implying that generic rants are not a start for discussion? This is news to me!
But... having ChatGPT vomit on OpenAI's site doesn't boost traffic or engagement for SO.
And, your claim assumes that the flags won't be declined by the staff handling the SO mod queue while we're on strike.
I don't actually know if they've declined any flags on AI-generated content, but they may have, and they may well start doing so in the future.
 
WEll, my other rant is that someone just asked me to attend a meeting in 45 minutes... Which means I need to go for Lunch 15 minutes ago, and have my co-worker leave for lunch in 15 minutes time, even though they went 45 minutes ago...; So you can choose which one to discuss if you want, Cody. :)
 
I hate meetings.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike I hate that this is actually possible... ARGH
 
@ThomA I'm not trying to argue the case, nor be "devil's advocate". But I want to share what I read somewhere off-site in relation to that. Some user was asked basically the same - if you want a ChatGPT answer, why don't you just ask ChatGPT - why should it be on SO. They responded that the value of the SO answers is the context. The answers can be directly compared with one another and there is also discussion in comments about potential problems or merits.
I found this to be an interesting perspective. Not persuasive but interesting.
 
Oh yeah, that's undoubtedly true.
We have a number of people who want to combine the best of SO and LLMs, where SO's userbase audits, votes on, and even improves the garbage spewed forth by the LLM.
 
11:50 AM
@VLAZ-onstrike- On an actual forum, where discussion can take place, I can see that being a legitimate reason. Though if such a scenario were to be in place, then the OpenAI response should be provided by the site, not a user seeking internet points via a copy-pasta on unchecked work.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Yes, and that means that we have to do a lot more maintenance on content than we've done now. Considering we do a lot less maintenance than really needed, combined with the speed at which ChatGPT content can be churned, it means we'd have to switch tracks and be "ChatGPT output evaluation" site.
I'm not sure if we even keep afloat in terms of maintenance. Here I include all flagging, voting, delvoting, editing, etc. If all of this combined done everyday tends to keep the site at least neutral in terms of amount of "not good" content we have. So maybe we'll get some new one but Roomba will delete the old one and we're at net zero.
 
Maybe that's what the internet needs; a site to discuss ChatGPT content and evaluate its output. Though, I've no idea how much investment such a site would have by actual SMEs; I personally wouldn't want to spend a few minutes of my day reviewing the responses another user got on their ChatGPT prompt(s).
 
I feel we're not at net positive. Probably not even at net neutral. I feel we've been on net negative for some time now. Before even ChatGPT.
But that's just hunches and guesses.
 
@ThomA No, see, it's actually ideal here on SO, where this no room for discussion. Just upvotes, downvotes, edits, and maybe a few comments. The best answers float to the top; the worst, to the bottom.
This is such a great model that it actually is the best thing even to filter/rate AI-generated content.
(not sarcasm)
It's just that we can't do it at that scale.
 
I suppose; though I stand by that if AI-generated content was posted, it should not (read never) be provided by users.
 
11:56 AM
@ThomA Have you tried ai.stackexchange.com? (Mith is going to kill me ;-))
@ThomA That's fair, of course. Why bother having meatbags paste in queries and copy the output. Just skip the middleman and query the AI directly.
But muh repz!
 
Obviously, I can't prove it, but I have no doubt that the driver behind users posting AI Generated content is purely for internet points, and not for the real reason the site is here.
 
Machavity proved it once, when he found someone's Twitter feed where they publicly proclaimed as much. :-)
 
@CodyGray-onstrike I'm actually not very active on any of the other SE sites; I really should start to invest time on dba.se...
Yeah, i saw that Twitter feed; I think it's referenced in one of the recent Strike related posts.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Make sure to stop by crypto.stackexchange.com for all your cryptocurrency needs, too.
 
chatgpt.SE when? /s
 
12:01 PM
We're just going to call it "Stack Overflow"
 
- where we actually put the Overflow in Stack!
 
@E_net4isonstrike The evidence of what?
 
@CodyGray-onstrike IIRC, there was also a tool made that automatically prepared a ChatGPT answer for any SO question you're currently on. Literal one-click posting. The RC part is that it was explicitly advertised as "make free repz easy!"
 
Yes, there was at least one of those tools built.
 
Ah, never mind that. It was still on yesterday's discussion about some users often accusing downvoters of trolling. It was weird.
 
12:17 PM
Oh, I see. Yeah, I read that.
First case of anyone ever moderating the room in years, and they weren't even an SO mod. :-p
 
Yeah, that part was surprising.
 
@ThomA as Cody mentioned, it definitely is for that sole reason. A lot of recruiter in some countries give a lot of importance to reps on SO/SE
 
0
Q: Should we [whisper] louder?

SUTerliakovCurrently, the following tags are confused by most users: openai-whisper whisper The first tag is for OpenAI voice recognition model, while the second wiki reads as Whisper is one of the components of Graphite, and is responsible for the back-end storage of incoming metrics from the network. ...

 
 
1 hour later…
1:43 PM
@NordineLotfi I wonder how much importance those recruiters put into the QUALITY of the content by those accounts. As many of us know, Reputation and Quality of content don't always go hand in hand.
 
@ThomA Recruiters - famously known for being well versed in technical matters...
 
Why I find it laughable that reputation is the metric they use.
Sure, I have plenty of reputation, but I'd rather point you to articles I've written (both on my own site and for others) than my reputation on SO, even if I haven't written any for a couple years now.
 
@ThomA Given some recruiter don't bother reading directly resumes of people (eg: use software that summarized or show top K keywords, etc) or only lightly read them, among other things, I think it wouldn't be too surprising that some of them wouldn't care about quality, and think of only of how large the number is
@ThomA yeah, I agree, but not everyone have that very logical commonsense :/
 
@NordineLotfi Knew a guy who complained he was getting .NET positions from various recruiters. He was puzzled why as he had zero .NET experience. Turns out, he had VB on his CV. From the 90s, before .NET and thus VB.NET were a thing.
Also who was the creator of a language who wasn't qualified to apply for a position? Was it Swift?
 
2:01 PM
Does anyone know why I get offers of Python positions from various recruiters? I don't have anything that looks like Python or snakes on my resume.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Are they using the same recommendations as SO?
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- probably didn't have enough years of experience programming in it.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Yeah, it was a somewhat famous Tweet. The creator of a language quited some position and said they couldn't apply because it said something like "requires 5 years experience in <language>" and the guy only made the language 3 years ago.
Can't find it right now. Probably not Swift.
 
Seems like it would be Swift.
A lot of other languages aren't that new.
 
2:06 PM
@VLAZ-onstrike- wow
@VLAZ-onstrike- yeah, saw that tweet last time it was posted
 
The magic query to find it was "language creator tweet cannot job"... I tried adding "swift" there in few ways but got a lot about Swift the language or Taylor Swift. Nothing about the creator of Swift.
 
this just goes to show they copy paste or reuse mindlessly the same template for stuff on their job posting
these days, some might even do worse with generative model
 
recently, I keep getting non-scam ticket and invitation for conference in other countries...but I never asked for any of them
think I received 3 times one for some conference in India
 
I must say, when we did interviews for open positions, I saw our job ad and felt I wasn't qualified for this job opening we had. It listed so many technologies that, we either barely used or didn't use. Like it listed stuff like Seq (just a log reader, server logs were thrown into it automatically), Razor (we don't use Razor...), Docker (docker deployment is mostly operated by DevOps, no Docker is required for day-to-day work), and others.
It was a collection of things related to what we did but not at all what any one of us really did. Like, bits and pieces here and there some people handle. Like, few people are into Docker but, again, you need exactly zero experience with docker.
 
2:14 PM
-4
Q: powerbi publish report error with sql server connection From Localhost

Mahmoud MahmadI have sql server based on local host connection , i have created a dashboard with a view connected to database in my server . the dash board working locally but when i publish it to my work space i have the problem say ( There is no gateway to access the data source new_sap . Verify the gatewa...

 
@VLAZ-onstrike- this, 100% this. When I go looking for new position, especially when job hunting, I only see this being the case. Some company even dared to post 99+ tech, as if they copy pasted it from Wikipedia or something
 
The common recruitment emails I get are for Insurance Companies to underwriting roles. Sure, I work for an insurance company, but that's about where my knowledge of underwriting stops; I've never underwritten a policy in my life and wouldn't even know where to start. It's like trying to hire someone as a Dentist because they used to be a cleaner at one...
 
I knew some Dentist's assistant who managed to become Dentist and have their own cabinet. They weren't even from a Science related background either (closer to literature I think). I guess in this case, Nepotism might be at play, but it's hard to really know
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- A similar thing happened with Carbon IIRC
except the creator bit
 
I doubt the creator has 10 years experience, though.
 
2:28 PM
I had to look up Carbon. First I thought it was the PHP library based on DateTime, then wondered if it was the Apple API
 
@aynber No, it's what you put in beverages to make bubbles.
 
Mmmmmm, bubble drinks
 
Like Bubble tea?
 
soda
 
@ThomA carbonated drinks.
 
2:36 PM
I was being silly on purpose, @VLAZ-onstrike-
 
seems to be carbonated tea as far as I know
 
Carbon literally does not exist, it's in the early draft stage, you can't even use it in production. Google doesn't even use it internally yet.
 
boba tea has these little balls of juice in them
kind of hard to see in that picture, but they're the white balls mixed in with the ice
 
yeah, I'm not entirely myself
 
@ThomA Yes, responding to my super serious assertion that a job listing for Carbon was for the fizziness in drinks :P
 
2:39 PM
The pictures further down show it a bit better. They aren't carbonated, though. Had one once, it was.. okay
 
@aynber Yes, I very recently had bubble tea for the first time. I did expect carbonated drink but it wasn't. I was...whelmed. Neither over- nor under-. Wasn't bad but didn't quite impress me. The only "problem" was the apple flavoured bubbles I had literally tasted like"what passes for apple juice but isn't at all like apples" which was jarring. But other bubbles probably don't have this problem. Still, not something I'd go out of my way to get.
 
@NordineLotfi sure*
 
They sold it in a ramen place, so if I ever go there for ramen, I might get bubble tea. But probably won't bother for just the tea.
 
I've had both good and bad bubble tea.
I, foolishly, didn't buy any in Japan the other week, where its very popular. I'm sure the quality of it would have been better than here.
 
0
Q: It would be really cool to have physical awards for reaching reputation levels. Or is there?

GassI apologies if there is a similar question. There is not much to look forwards to when you reach a certain reputation level other than keep helping and keep summing rep points. I see YouTube with their awards and I ask myself why isn't something like that in SO ? Wouldn't it be cool ? And why isn...

 
2:45 PM
so if they do it again, sure, but otherwise I'm not going to buy it
@VLAZ-onstrike- Yup, that's the way I felt about it. I really only got it because the business park sponsored a coffee truck and boba truck one day, so it was free for me
 
@ThomA Oh, didn't know it was popular in Japan. Explains why the ramen place sold it.
 
Oddly, I don't recall seeing it being sold in any of the Ramen places I went to.
 
It is sold in exactly one that I know of. And there are more ramen/Asian/Japanese places than that one.
I think I've seen some other place that offers bubble tea but never been there. I believe it's not a ramen or Japanese-related one, though.
 
3:02 PM
No boba at my regular ramen place. But they got my kids addicted to the ramune soda
 
I wasn't too bothered about Ramune. Melon Soda though.. That stuff was like a drug.
 
I think it's the novelty of the bottle
 
That's fair
 
@aynber The Apple API is what I thought, but that's very old. It was there in Mac OS 9.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Right, so 10 years would make sense there, except it was deprecated about 10 years ago
 
3:16 PM
So... what is it?
Other than the element.
I am only one upper-division course away from a minor in organic chemistry, so I'm qualified, right?
 
Programming language by Google that isn't even in production yet
 
Oh, great, that's exactly what we need, another programming language from Google.
It does not help the industry or ecosystem to fracture everything off into yet another programming language...
 
It's apparently supposed to be the successor to C++
a, not the
 
I'll stick to Crab Rust
 
Yeah. There are so many things that are hoping to be the successor of C++.
Some of them might even be good. *cough* Rust
But yet, C++ is still going strong.
And it's just not all that helpful to continually fracture the community and force all new tools to be built and everyone to start all over.
 
3:35 PM
Apparently it is supposed to have "Seamless, bidirectional interoperability with C++"
 
4:27 PM
I imagine that the programming knowledge between the two is not exactly seamless and bidirectional. :)
I did notice that there are some cool ideas there, which can surely reduce the number of footguns. Albeit not in a way which resolves all soundness issues.
 
-1
Q: Azure AD login is failing in sauce labs, same is working on physical device and simulator[EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV): EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)}

Sridhar T SaminathanAzure AD login in xamarin.iOS are failing in sauce labs, the same is working on physical device and simulator. Package Used : Microsoft.Identity.Client 4.54.1 Crash logs Signal: SIGSEGV EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV): EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) App.iOS Microsoft_Identity_Client_Platforms_iOS_SystemWebvie...

 
 
2 hours later…
6:14 PM
-1
Q: Feature Request: Headers render as headers when there is a space next to `#`

Samuel MuldoonI am aware that people write the symbol # in the middle of in-line text. When # is used in the middle of a line of text we should probably not make the in-line text to look like a header. this is not a header blah blah #1 this is still not a header #2 and even yet, not a header #3. However, when...

 
@NewPosts But...why?
Also, used to be the case that no space was valid. But with CommonMark it stopped being the case and a space was mandatory. But I think it was all sorted out at that point.
5
Q: Hot meta posts section is no more?

machine_1I was browsing Stack Overflow for tags of interest related questions and I noticed that there was no 'hot meta posts' section on the right side! I navigated to the corresponding meta and found the same. Even here on Meta Stack Exchange, it doesn't show up. Is this another move by SE management af...

Oh no
But...what if I want to see the blog?!
(That's also gone, right? I'm not just blocking it?)
Oh, I am blocking it. Joke ruined.
 
6:32 PM
> I was browsing Stack Overflow for tags of interest-related questions and I noticed that there was no 'hot meta posts' section on the right side! I navigated to the corresponding meta and found the same.
yea, sure, you were just passively browsing out of interest in related questions
 
Says "interest-related" I think it basically says "I was browsing SO"
 
3
Q: Seems the Sidebar Has Lost Some Sections

dbuggerWhat has happened to Featured On Meta Hot Meta Posts ?

 
Yes, however, it's clear this is just a made up story to bring it up, given they've previously expressed similar sentiments with useless comments being removed in the past 24 hours
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ don't even know why a story is needed.
"I was feeding my horse when I noticed in the reflection of his eyes my monitor. And lo and behold, the side bar was less than before!"
 
 
3 hours later…
9:28 PM
@VLAZ-onstrike- Still seems like quite a joke to me...
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Blog is serious business. Only the most serious of serious seriousness is allowed there.
 
10:29 PM
@VLAZ-onstrike- Markdown was always a mess. Commonmark feels like a waste of time when almost every markdown parser has it's own quirks and formats
 
10:57 PM
it's at least better and closer to a common Markdown standard
it would obviously be better if the world's Markdown parsers could agree on how Markdown should work
but CommonMark is a noble and pragmatic attempt to get there
also c'mon this doesn't need details or clarity it's just a bad idea
 
One day into the strike it doesn't seem to have much impact yet. The homepage of Stack Overflow looks fine, no spam, no off-topic questions, and no AI generated answers. Maybe slightly less downvoted and closed questions than normal. The number of people signing the open letter to join the strike is still growing, but I wonder how many are needed to make a difference in the question list. — Marijn 9 hours ago
 

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