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12:46 AM
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Q: Start a new profile when getting bullied?

bobble bubbleI ever liked puzzling with the questions on Stackoverflow. The regex tag where I'm most active has become more and more an annoying place over the years. Only few from the friendly and supporting community that it once was are still here. Myself I get bullied since quite some time, not understand...

 
12:57 AM
@NewPosts regret to inform you that starting a new profile will not stop your regex answers getting downvoted without any obvious explanation
the curation in that tag is a bit aggressive for my taste...I get it, there's a lot of junk, but also it goes too far in including a lot of stuff that isn't junk.
 
@RyanM That's unfortunate. The OP is active though (they haven't posted in a while, but "last seen this week", at least), so maybe it makes sense to edit in an explanation of why parts of the answer are an issue? It feels like it wouldn't change the intent of the answer, and they can roll back if they dislike the edit.
sigh I just looked at the related meta post, and it's unfortunate that the OP hasn't downvoted any of the posts they claim are wrong. They actually have a reasonable argument in so far as downvoting isn't going to do much, but not having downvoted themselves undermines that argument considerably.
 
@RyanM Personally, my primary issues are two-fold: the amount of explanations (like substantive explanations about regex and how they operate) are few and far between. Sure there's a lot of automated bullets from regex101 or w/e but like that's not as helpful as why that pattern works better than some other options...
Then the second is the amount of deletions there. Maybe it's just random chance I'm running across them, but I see so many posts deleted after a very short time visible on the site.
Personally, that's a point I disagree with more than a few people on in that second one though. I don't buy into the idea that anyone can know if something is going to be a good signpost or not after being live for 2 days and closed for 2 days.
 
The abuse of duplicate voting is also ...not good.
 
@HenryEcker Not random. It's a known issue. The linked post is about a specific user, but the issue is endemic to the tag.
 
@RyanM I agree, but I tend to find that to be an issue with a set of individual users and not necessarily the tag as a whole (without access to more information of course). e.g. the extensive downvotes and the collaborative delete votes which I was considering a community/mentality issue in wider context.
 
1:11 AM
oh, is all that stuff not being done by that same set of users?
I mean obviously one comes to mind as the most prominent
but there are certainly some recurring names among the close/delete voters. I assumed that they were also responsible for the downvotes on answers to questions they consider low-quality.
 
Again I don't have enough context to possibly be able to answer that question. In my limited experience I've seen a fair amount of variation (at least as much as possible given the subset of users with the requisite privileges) in the users who are commenting, attempting to answer and downvoting (and commenting that they had), and voting to delete.
 
Fair. I've mostly stayed away from the tag myself.
I usually notice when there are complaints on meta, or from my previous attempts at answering there, since I'm decent at regex, at least.
 
But despite the size of Stack Overflow each tag's community is relatively small at least when looking at just the most active users.
The problem is the huge number of smaller communities making it so a site moderator can totally never interact with a sub-community and still have more than enough to handle.
@cigien Yeah, that seems to track with what I have noticed as well.
Has no one ever proposed a Regex.SE site where the rules can be something different than Stack Overflow? That would probably be closed on A51 for not "arbitrarily splitting off sub-communities into dedicated sites" or whatever that close reason is.
@HenryEcker This one - "This subject is already well-covered by a live Stack Exchange site. We generally do not split off subjects simply to give them their own space."
 
1:29 AM
Does this count? meta.stackoverflow.com/a/405723 ;) but it's not a real proposal (I don't think there's ever been one). I quite like the idea personally, mostly due to the fact that curation/policy in the regex tag is quite different than the rest of SO. e.g. The [regex] tag is the only one I'm aware of that officially sanctions RTFM targets (which is not allowed in general). And as you've noticed, the aggressive deletion is not really in line with the site norms either.
But yeah, an official area51 proposal isn't going to get anywhere. Partly for the reason you mentioned, but more importantly, the community that would be required to spearhead such a proposal seem quite happy with being on SO. Without their support, a proposal is meaningless even if SE would allow it.
 
@cigien "officially" needs giant air quotes here, I think
 
Hmm. It wasn't arbitrary (or done by a single user) though. The tag wiki was updated following a meta discussion about whether such a target was acceptable, and whether it should be used this way. The community consensus was, yes, they want it. That's about as official as it gets I think.
 
Oh, I don't think I've seen that meta discussion
 
Well that's definitely a timeline
 
1:37 AM
I think also this one
 
The one Ryan linked. I don't recall the other one precisely, but there are several in that vein.
I'll have to check the timeline of the tag wiki to see when it was updated to allow the RTFM target. The meta post just before that is probably the relevant one.
 
I think there's a difference between using it as a canonical for "what does this regex mean?" and using it as an RTFM close reason.
I'm totally fine with the former, but not the latter.
Though I agree that every variation on "Check if a string contains at least 10 digits, 12 uppercase letter and 20 lowercase letter", to quote Henry's link, is a total waste of time.
Personally, I'd rather that be a "How do I enforce my particular password strength requirements in regex?" canonical
given that the answer is "mix a bunch of lookaheads and then follow them with the length requirement", it wouldn't be hard to answer generally
 
Yeah, but like I feel just calling something a "canonical" doesn't make it useful or a good fit for SO. Like Reference - What does this regex mean? is terribly overwhelming imo.
 
The idea of duping such a question to "Reference - What does this regex mean?" borders on the absurd.
 
I mean... "Requests to explain a regular expression pattern or construct will be closed as duplicates of the canonical post What does this regex mean which contains a lot of details on regular expression constructs." regex wiki
 
1:44 AM
Right, and that's very, very different than "give me a regex that does X"
even if X is the 237th permutation of weird password strength requirements.
 
Again, that's going back to what I said was my primary issue initially. Substantive useful explanations about how regexes work, and why, are few and far between.
 
The problem with that is that "explain this regex" cannot, IMHO, ever be a useful Stack Overflow question unless the regex is so well-known that it has a specific name.
because often regexes are one-offs, and in any case they aren't searchable by any search engine
These questions are almost always better answered by starting off by pasting the regex into one of the automated explainer tools
(Honestly, I'm pretty good at regex and I still do it with the more complex ones to see the hierarchy...it's useful)
I've heard whispers that even Makyen uses that when composing novel-length regexes.
 
The automated explainer tools consult Makyen to make sure they're right ;)
2
 
FWIW I think regex tools are great. I find the ones which generate FSMs to be super helpful especially. I think the conversation has gotten a bit mixed as we flowed between topics. My point was only that I don't come to Stack Overflow looking for something that an automated tool can tell me anyway.
I see a lot of regex answers which are you can use "pattern" copied list from regex101 explainer. I want to see more this is why I'm using this pattern instead of something else.
I don't think "how to do X with regex" should be closed as duplicates of the canonical reference.
 
+1 ^
 
1:59 AM
It has over 2K questions linked to it currently. I looked at one of the recent ones, stackoverflow.com/questions/73414601 and it looks like a "how-to" question to me. (The first one in that list looks like a "how-to" as well, but the OP gave a non-working regex attempt, so maybe that could be considered a dupe?) Anyway, it gets used for "how-to" questions all the time, and I'm pretty sure I've seen comments on Meta that that's its intended purpose.
Also, the 2k is definitely an underestimate given how many of those dupes get deleted.
 
The MSO thread I linked earlier called "how-to" questions "Give me a regex that does X" questions and the highest scoring answer says the canonical works as a closure "unless the OP can illustrate a very specific problem that they cannot solve -- then they deserve a specific answer."
Which is an extension of the long standing "we'd rather tell someone they missed a semicolon and close as typo or no repro" than make "a library of userful questions and answers"...
 
@cigien Well, that's obviously a bogus closure...reopened.
...although, then also reclosed as needs details or clarity, because it needs a language.
that's not a task that can be accomplished with just regex
(we probably need to send someone a mod message about these closures at some point, but...meta.stackexchange.com/q/380703/165261)
 
Or you could just go through the list of questions closed as duplicate of the reference :p
 
2:31 AM
True....
 
So uh... if there are 2k linked posts that are visible 1041 were closed by one user....
 
Why did I bother checking what user it was?
 
Gain of salt with the SEDE values there being out of date.
 
at least the rate is relatively low, although who knows if that holds true if you take deleted posts into account.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:11 AM
@HenryEcker Just a follow up curiosity here. Who is using a dupe target the most? (sort of a gray area because just because something was closed as a duplicate doesn't mean that all of the close voters voted with that reason)
I wish SEDE login was working. I'd definitely favourite that one. That seems like a relatively useful query to have in the list.
 
4:34 AM
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Q: Let's start [shipping] this tag away!

cocomacSo... I think we should burninate the shipping tag Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous? It is something that is in some-way related to shipping. Quite ambiguous IMO. From the tag wiki "Shipping is transportation of goods by sea or some ot...

 
 
2 hours later…
6:58 AM
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Q: How to merge rows of tables based on subject_code in laravel?

Reams Kamat[![I want to merge rows of table having same subject name. Schema::create('student_has_marks', function (Blueprint $table) { $table->id(); $table->unsignedBigInteger('student_id'); $table->foreign('student_id')->references('id')->on('students'); $table->unsignedBigInteger('user_id'); $table->fore...

 
 
4 hours later…
10:28 AM
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Q: Suspended from reviewing based on a question that has multiple questions

puncherI got suspended from reviewing because of this review: https://stackoverflow.com/review/triage/32483540 I marked it as "Needs author edit" because it has multiple problems/questions in it. Someone commented, that it "is still effectively asking a single question". Well but for me it's a bit vague...

 
 
4 hours later…
2:46 PM
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Q: What's wrong with my answer?

bobble bubbleI recently answered an interesting question and thought it's a good answer. Everybody was happy (the question was upovoted two times). Almost a day later I got three downvotes without any comments left. Even the question was downvoted and closed (besides I also can't see where the question would ...

 
3:46 PM
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Q: Do moderators have to tolerate islamophobic posts?

jabaaI saw this question with offensive content (see the edit history) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/73427037/how-to-match-with-regex-in-javascript Some comments criticized the offensive content. A moderator removed the comments, but didn't remove the content nor the question. A user removed the...

 
4:22 PM
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Q: Add tag for [query]

BarmarI've occasionally noticed tags about SQL queries with the jquery tag. Most recently this was i have probleam in compare count two tabel in mysql. I think this is because when you type "query" into the tag line, the first completion is "jquery". We should add an explicit tag for "query" to make th...

 
 
1 hour later…
5:40 PM
-1
Q: Downvoting should not be possible without any explanation

LonelyExample: I am an expert in several programming languages, and I always try to treat novices kindly. Because when you're new to something, you often don't know which other questions/answers your own question is similar to. Now, I'm new to a new programming language (golang), and I realize how begi...

 
here we go again...
 
just downvote and move on...
 
6:13 PM
Meta is so much fun today!
 
@NewPosts posts like these make me wish there wasn't a 5 post limit on dupes
Could've made a userscript that automatically added all of the posts as targets
nothing quite says "no" like several hundred dupe targets
 
can we just have a nice slow week on meta for once?
 
6:53 PM
you had a nice, slow week
you now get a 110%, speedy week_end_
 
 
2 hours later…
9:22 PM
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Q: Moderator closed a question as a dupe, community voted to reopen...mod closed again?

MGZeroYears ago, I asked a question that is now probably one of the top search engine results if you search for anything related to pointer size in C++. It's a 10 year old question which still gets discussion from time to time. Recently, someone asked a similar question. A moderator decided to close my...

 
9:48 PM
Alright, thanks for this detailed answer! I'll either skip it or look at the original question in future. — puncher 2 hours ago
wrong lesson learned there :-\
 
10:26 PM
Oh boy, things got heated up.
Have we found out what's wrong with [regex] yet?
 
11:13 PM
@RyanM I mean that is a pretty common thing that users take away from those discussions on meta. Though I do agree that's unfortunate
@E_net4thecommentflagger I think the problem is clear, but the solution is not.
Huh, a little like regex itself I guess
 
@E_net4thecommentflagger Yes
that we're asking what's wrong instead of what isn't wrong
 
11:43 PM
@HenryEcker It is, and I sigh every time. It's really not the point that you can pass audits by checking if they're audits.
It defeats the point of teaching people to review properly, and increases the burden on moderators if people can pass audits while reviewing horribly.
 

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