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12:01 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@mbrig: You'd know if you've taken a course or two online... The problem here is that the tool is a suggestion and it's not something you'd need, so your expectations are a lot lower. If you're looking at how to do something in Docker, then you have an explicit want for that course to be of-quality and your expectations are a lot higher. The most satisfaction you get from buying something is if you're pleasantly surprised, not if you're just OK with the results. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pranav Hosangadi
People already barely follow instructions like How to Ask and How to Answer. The problem we see with lots of AI-generated answers is that the people who post them do so blindly, without verifying that it answers the question or testing for bugs. I doubt asking these low-effort posters to put in more effort is going to have the effect you desire. — Pranav Hosangadi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DryLabRebel
This is the best answer by far. When I'm searching for a problem, even a seemingly elementary one, SO links are very often my first port of call. This is because questions are often very closely related to a problem I have, and if there's an accepted answer then it's almost certainly going to fix my problem too. Having a large repository of quick answers to simple problems saves everyone time, and is one of the best things about SO. — DryLabRebel 1 min ago
 
1:13 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
It's exactly these kinds of questions (like your "Getting started with R" example) that we want to dive into and explore with the people most active in the tags. For example, the R tag wiki is pretty great already -- maybe articles are a way to surface that content better (and maybe in more manageable pieces). Tag wikis are a long-form content type that already exists, though perhaps some of the people who would most benefit from that content don't ever find it. Think of articles as existing alongside Q&A, complementing it, rather than a method to improve it. — Berthold ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
@KevinB To be clear, we're choosing a group of users to do this initial collaboration and brainstorming. We have to find this group somehow, and so we looked at various factors that could surface some good candidates. Ultimately it will be that group that works out how to best choose RMs going forward. That may be different for each collective, based on whatever factors make the most sense. This isn't CMs beknighting people for all time. — Berthold ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
Trust (like HP!) is regained through actions and over time, not by words. This post offers candor and transparency and (even if perhaps too much for your taste) some optimism. I have no expectation that this was a magic wand to wave and then call it a day. We have lots of work ahead and the hope is that those who have been frustrated or disappointed can keep an open mind as we continue forward. — Berthold ♦ 27 secs ago
 
2:01 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Berthold: How long are you planning on making us wait, for real though? We tried to open the communication about this a long time ago and this just kept snowballing until Teresa said "this is the way, we're not questioning it anymore" and we just got to live with this. I get that you're just the messenger and you're not really the person who this message is meant for, but "we have lots of work ahead" is like...the most tone-deaf thing you could've said here. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
As in, yes, you do need optimism and yes there's a long road to get back trust. But you haven't even started this. You've just pretended for a year and change that while this has rolled out that things were alright or within parameter. Seriously?! — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
I guess what I want to hear is what you're committing to do to rebuild that trust. I don't need magic wands or any of that, I'm a practicalist. How are y'all going to start fixing this relationship based on those three points you highlight? That is what I want to hear about. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Michael Petch
I'd be curious to know why Intel decided to dump their collective? — Michael Petch 1 min ago
 
2:31 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samuel Liew
Perhaps "already" could be changed to "also"? — Samuel Liew ♦ 19 secs ago
 
3:06 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Blue Robin
@Makoto The bug still isn't fixed? — Blue Robin 19 secs ago
 
3:18 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Longson
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JK.
"Post a new question" does not mean "Post the same question" even if you have made some changes to the the original question. — JK. 1 min ago
 
3:31 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JK.
It must be possible that someone asks multiple questions, no one votes on them so no warning is given when asking any of those questions. Then later the downvotes start to come in and goes over the ban threshold. All the downvotes that lead to a ban came after their last question was asked. This seems like a reasonable way that someone can get banned with no warning, and where the ban is still deserved. — JK. 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Joe Coder
UNBAN IT. UNBAN IT NOW. — Joe Coder 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
It is not only deleting questions to repost (the automated algorithm can probably not even figure this out) them that causes a question ban. All of your deleted questions as well 0 scored or less questions also count. Out of your 5 undeleted questions I see 4 of them are 0 scored. — Abdul Aziz Barkat 45 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
 
4:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Millerchip
This is not a duplicate. This is about the incorrect and misleading message shown to users with the close privilege. — Adam Millerchip 50 secs ago
 
4:53 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
And posting the text as images instead? — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
And posting the text as images instead? That could explain some of this very unfortunate trend. Doesn't the system offer any (context-aware) advice on how to format the question (not a rhetorical question)? Perhaps it is time to leave the input-as-raw-text-as-a-feature-like-on-Wikipedia-and-any-sof‌​tware-developer-wort‌​h-their-salt-should-‌​be-able-to-handle-it‌​-without-any-problem‌​s? Related: Why not upload images of code/errors when asking a question?Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
And posting the text as images instead? That could explain some of this very unfortunate trend. Doesn't the system offer any (context-aware) advice on how to format the question (not a rhetorical question)? Perhaps it is time to leave the input-as-raw-text-as-a-feature-like-on-Wikipedia-and-any-sof‌​tware-developer-wort‌​h-their-salt-should-‌​be-able-to-handle-it‌​-without-any-problem‌​s? And/or a real usability study?* — Peter Mortensen 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
[ Boson ] New comment posted by HolyBlackCat
I thought collectives were sponsored. Is there a specific CI/CI provider sponsoring the CI/CD collective? — HolyBlackCat 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
"Does deleting a question to post a new one confirm that I consistently post low-quality questions?" - Yes; Let me explain, you shouldn't be doing that, and it will result in reaching the threshold of being question banned. Why are you not editing the question until the problems with it are resolved? Question bans are a result of an automatic quality threshold being reached, it is not issue by a moderator, it's entirely based on the quality of your contributions. Sadly, since you are now question banned, you will have to deal with the 6 month rate limit. — Security Hound 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
Futhremore, question bans, are not the result of 1-2 bad questions, so you have had more questions than 2 questions downvoted. If you have more than 1 deleted question, as a new user, you are likely not asking high quality questions. — Security Hound 1 min ago
 
5:33 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
The list in the close notice the very one right next to the message is indeed only visible to users with close/reopen privilege. The claim isn't made in general. It applies to the element you currently see - one marked with a crossed out eye symbol. — VLAZ 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Millerchip
@VLAZ that's your interpretation, but the message not not say it's referring to only the list in this instance - it can easily be interpreted to mean everywhere, which is not the case. — Adam Millerchip 38 secs ago
 
5:56 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makyen
It's very much by design that the list of close voters in the close notice is not shown to all users, particularly the question author. Yes, it would be more accurate to say something there like "(The list of close voters is only displayed here to users with the cast close and reopen votes privilege who are not the question author.)" It's not clear to me that the additional accuracy there is worth making a change, given that it's relatively difficult to get SE to change things. — Makyen ♦ 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makyen
If it's really your intent that this question be specifically about the wording and/or accuracy of the notation regarding the visibility of the list of close voters that's shown in the closed post notification, then please edit your question to make it more clear and explicit that's the case. It is clear from other people's actions on this question that is not how everyone reading it has interpreted the question. — Makyen ♦ 1 min ago
 
6:13 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makyen
In other words, I'd be willing to reopen this, but it's been fairly clearly demonstrated that the intent of the question is unclear as it's currently written, given that about 40% of the people reading it understood it to be different than specifically calling out the accuracy of that statement in the closed question post notice. — Makyen ♦ 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Millerchip
@Makyen I've already edited to add a clarification earlier. The title has been "message" is incorrect from the start, with a screenshot of the message in the body. Anyway I give up now. — Adam Millerchip 1 min ago
 
 
1 hour later…
7:26 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei Levenkov
@AdamMillerchip, it looks like you want "feature-request" instead of "bug". I'd recommend reading corresponding tag guidance and edit the question to re-tag, include your proposal and good reasoning why it is important for the site. — Alexei Levenkov 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Riya
@skinnedKnuckles thank you for the tip. I ll make sure to avoid that mistake. — Riya 1 min ago
 
7:50 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Roland
All I want to know is: Can I safely ignore this or will I be bothered as a contributer in the r tag? I'm not interested in the product at all. — Roland 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
CD can already mean many things on a site for programming. Collision Detection. A famous command line command. Compact Disc. Whereas "continuous delivery/deployment" sounds like something for marketing.stackexchange.com. — Lundin 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
For long term users of the site, there was no trust to lose in the first place. It was in steady decline for a long time, then finally completely and seemingly permanently(?) erased 3 years ago. There hasn't been much in the way of actions to rebuild it even before this "Collectives" debacle. — Lundin 1 min ago
 
8:20 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
So, can someone confirm that that edit banner in the history is visible to users that can view the edit history, but can't close-vote? — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
"Instead of "post a new one" it should say "post a different question"" this has been pointed out to SE when they decided to change the close notifications few years ago. So, yes, you're right. However, as a community we've not had any power to change this. — VLAZ 49 secs ago
 
8:38 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Millerchip
@Cerbrus you can open the link while not logged in. — Adam Millerchip 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MisterMiyagi
For the record, "erroneously interpreting … a regular expression string "PE\x00\x00" … as code" seems to be not in error. Regular expressions are code. — MisterMiyagi 30 secs ago
 
9:06 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by PM 2Ring
Deleting a poorly-received question doesn't make the badness go away. In fact, it takes you closer to a question ban. The system does not encourage you to delete your posts, but I admit that it could do a better job of warning you of the possible negative consequences of deletions. — PM 2Ring 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
"In this case, the newer question has more views and upvotes, so it's arguably more effective," - not entirely irrelevant, but the main criteria is that t should have a better answer. All roads must lead to the most useful answer(s). But in this case it looks like a linkage to a canonical, the existing answer looks pretty on-par with what's in the dupe target. Unfortunately there is no criteria which can help to identify a canonical, so the dupe message can't be adjusted to it. — Gimby 1 min ago
 
9:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
Would there be a duplicate for this? I'm certainly not an expert but I'm suspicious this is the very first time such a question has been asked and answered. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
If it's not a duplicate, how about posting your own, non-AI generated, answer? — Larnu 1 min ago
 
9:58 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user10186832
@Gimby done ... — user10186832 44 secs ago
 
10:23 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
@Lundin I don't really see how that is problematic when the collective is about "CI/CD", not just "CD". The pairing is not ambiguous. I can hardly find a programming job today without that being at the top of the buzzword bingo bullet list. — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alvi15
In my very humble opinion, You already half answered your own question when you acknowledged this as something that doesn't matter. — Alvi15 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
@Gimby Inventing new abbreviations is rarely ever useful. As for buzzwords, I have yet to encounter one which is actually a technically accurate summary of an underlying technology. There is however a strong correlation between the use of buzzwords and not having a clue about what one is even talking about... — Lundin 9 secs ago
 
10:45 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew T.
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user10186832
@Larnu OP says If I were to add a new answer, it would be nearly identical to the deleted answer. Leading to the fact this could be seen as plagiarism, which is frowned upon as well.user10186832 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
I fail to see, in truth, how someone can't use their own words, @user10186832 . That the 2 answers recommend the same solution is irrelevant. — Larnu 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by S. Dre
I find highly ironic that ChatGPT has the right and most upvoted answer to this post about not allowing ChatGPT answers on SO partially because of it's low rate of correct answers. — S. Dre 40 secs ago
 
11:20 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@user10186832 assuming this would indeed be the first (non-deleted) answer, it could at the very least link to some documentation. — VLAZ 1 min ago
 
11:38 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Yes, they're pretty easy to recognize. — Cerbrus 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Paul Masri-Stone
I agree with this answer and the comment by @V2Blast. If someone has used ChatGPT to get an answer, taken the time to verify its correctness — the essential human curation step — and then posts it on SO, it could be useful to SO users. I would propose a citation along the lines of "Solution by ChatGPT, verified by me". Ultimately the important thing is answer quality, not where the answer came from. — Paul Masri-Stone 1 min ago
 
11:51 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
This is uninformed. OpenAI themselves have released tools to detect if something was generated from ChatGPT or not. They have no interested in disguising the output from the bot as something else, quite the contrary. So detecting it is rather a race between OpenAI and OpenAI... and in that race I'm fairly certain that OpenAI can hope to win. — Lundin 15 secs ago
 
12:36 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bad_coder
@Berthold why not create the collective at devops.se and add a custom migration close reason on SO (perhaps with a double collective)? That might overall add the most value in the long term although it's tempting to think of SO as the brand's flagship in the short term. — bad_coder 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DarkBee
Thanks for the follow-up. I've gone and requested more information from OP to be able to add a more extended answer than the current deleted one — DarkBee 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DarkBee
@Larnu - can't use their own words. I feel like the deleted answer already explains the possible solution accurate enough. Sure you could change some words here and there, but the gist would be roughly the same — DarkBee 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by David Arenburg
All the r related tags mentioned, are actually rstudio related tags- is this some commercial act for Rstudio/Posit? Are they paying you for that? Just wondering... — David Arenburg 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
The gist being the same is fine, @DarkBee , as blackgreen states in their answer. The important thing is that you, writing your own content, isn't ChatGPT content copy pasta'd into the answer box with (likely) no fact checking or validation being performed. That ChatGPT actually got something right for once has no impact on the content you write. — Larnu 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DarkBee
That's kinda why I've posted this question as I work daily with twig and can validate the answer. — DarkBee 1 min ago
 
1:23 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
Nicely put. The last paragraph pretty much succinctly summarises what I tried to say. — Gimby 56 secs ago
 
1:35 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by l4mpi
That means that even areas without a sponsor are not safe from this useless feature? Hell no, I hope you don't have any plans to introduce collectives in the tags I frequent. — l4mpi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
I agree that it is a bug. Remove that "List of close voters etc. etc." line from the message box and nothing of relevance is lost, it is essentially fluff. Why it is even mentioned there to begin with, I do not know. — Gimby 7 secs ago
 
1:48 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
Why do you suspect it was generated by ChatGPT? It’s missing some key features of ChatGPT generated text. — Security Hound 1 min ago
 
2:00 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
I draw a parallel with a common thing I see IT people do. They tend to be preoccupied with what can and cannot be done. Even though as Ian Malcolm from Jurassic Park teaches us: you need to consider what you should and should not do. On most sites however, no problem. On Stack Overflow... problem. If you hit that ask question button without thinking if you should do it, and there are many documented reasons why you shouldn't, you end up in trouble. Stack Overflow comes with an unusual amount of personal responsibility for a website. I don't think it communicates that very well still. — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@Security Hound: It isn't that clear, but look at the previous posts. They are very terse (some are effectively only code dumps). It looks like someone who became question-banned, posted late answers (mostly code dump) to get out of the question ban, and finally resorted to ChatGPT when that didn't work. — Peter Mortensen just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
My guess would be, @SecurityHound , is that they (like many other users that contribute ChatGPT answers) posted many answers and that any recent answers from the user were deleted. Maybe that one wasn't, but I would not blame the mods for deleting all recent answer contributions if the first 5/6 they checked were ChatGPT, and 1 out of the recent 8 or 9 wasn't ChatGPT. If it truely isn't a ChatGPT answer then the user being discussed can always flag it for undeletion, and explain that they actually wrote the content. — Larnu 1 min ago
 
2:20 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by IMSoP
@Lundin "I haven't heard of that before" is not the same as "it is a newly invented term that people won't understand". As a quick example, here's an article about Github Actions launching in 2018, talking about how it goes beyond CI/CD, showing that the term was already well established. I'm sure there are plenty of terms that would crop on, say, a mechanical engineering site that would be baffling to me, but that doesn't mean they're a bad choice of term for their target audience. — IMSoP 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Esmaeil Ahmadipour
If the filter button is aimed at forcing the riverers to do forced work, surely fewer of them will be willing to do this. Was there a decline in the background of this statistic? And this solution was chosen for it? Did this solution work? — Esmaeil Ahmadipour 49 secs ago
 
2:50 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Karl Knechtel
@PeterMortensen I don't follow. How would someone who was Q-banned be able to "resort to" ChatGPT, while only being permitted to ask one new question per 6 months? — Karl Knechtel just now
 
3:15 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
@IMSoP Since I work with engineering, I'm usually the last person to learn the new buzzwords. And well, you can poke at any such term and ask if someone can explain what it means in a single sentence. If they can't, it's definitely a buzzword. Keep in mind that it's also in the best interest of any "DevOps" (or "IoT" or "Agile" etc etc) specialist to not have anyone else understand what they actually do. Or again, perhaps they don't even know what they are doing themselves. — Lundin 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leponzo
Also people who can't Tampermonkey due to browser extensions being blocked in the office :) — Leponzo 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Fenced code blocks are against the "down" in Markdown (minimal markup), but with the new weird syntax highlighter (and how the company implemented it), fenced code blocks are the cleanest way to deal with it (the HTML comment way is worse). Almost all 23,466,059 questions (and their answers) became broken wrt. syntax highlighting by the change. Missing syntax highlighting would not have been a problem at all, but it is weird syntax highlighting. — Peter Mortensen 19 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
cont' - Missing syntax highlighting would not have been a problem at all, but it is weird syntax highlighting. — Peter Mortensen 54 secs ago
 
3:40 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
"Python math is wrong". That'll generate some traffic for the company, there is no way you're not going to click on that. — Gimby 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Karl Knechtel
@Gimby I should adjust it to say floating-point, but otherwise people aren't going to find the question because of a different problem. I care about clickbait when it ends up sending people to an irrelevant Q&A. — Karl Knechtel 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
I agree. The clickbait is the signpost. — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@Lundin The CD abbreviation was probably invented 5 minutes after the first Hudson release (the predecessor of Jenkins), so roughly 2005. Wikipedia says the term became popular from a 2010 book. I'd also argue it's the most frequent use of the abbreviation by far in a sw context as collision detection is way more niche and CDs barely exist anymore outside of music releases. (And yes, many people and orgs are doing agile wrong, but that's not so much an issue with the specific methodology as most of them would probably screw up waterfall / other paradigms even harder...) — l4mpi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
"Escalations to the Community Manager team: 0" does this not include the Contact Us form? I would count those as users escalating to the CMs. — TylerH 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
Can edits be added to this table? That's a significant part of moderation — TylerH 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@Lundin re explaining CD, it's hard to create a definition everyone agrees with as it means differnt things to different people (the same way "testing" or "releasing" have a different meaning in different projects). But let's try: CD means you have an automated process (optionally with manual steps) that is started (auto or manually) after a new commit (or branch) is pushed to your repo, which performs tests / validation / other steps , builds a release, and (auto or manually) deploys it to a target system (can be production or test, personally I'd say it's only CD if you're talking prod). — l4mpi just now
 
4:15 PM
Error while calling API: Read timed out
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
One thing I really like about StackOverflow is that it's not biased towards a certain stack/framework/software provider. Many sites on the Internet are quite biased and recommend a certain framework for a certain task which might not necessarily be the best tool for the job. SO in comparison is relatively neutral. I hope it stays like that. I wouldn't like to see sponsors distorting this in any way (I know it's not meant to be like that but who can exactly predict how things turn out in practice...) — Trilarion just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@Gimby transparency. Also, users who single-handedly closed a post can be pinged. — VLAZ 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
@l4mpi Released after getting commit and auto tested sounds scary. But we had that way before 2005, it is widely known as "It compiles! Ship it!" Probably known as ICSI methods. If you need an ICSI methods consultant, please contact me off-site. — Lundin 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharmaraj
I remember a post that said it would introduce some 'automated processes' to identify recognized members but I doubt if they are introduced yet? I've usually been in top 3 in the GCP collective and related even before collectives were introduced, its sad to see people leaving a collective just because of this. This doesn't stop any of us from contributing but I've had cases where OP wants a recognized person to answer even though our answer is correct. — Dharmaraj 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@Lundin that's where the "optional manual steps" are for - these can range from a person simply pressing a button after automated tests are ran, to starting a weeklong validation procedure. Again, as with agile, how this is (mis)used in various projects and companies is not a failing of CD itself but of those teams. — l4mpi 14 secs ago
 
 
1 hour later…
5:35 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
the private team aspect of this really highlights the issue I have with it, that collectives gets billed as this thing that allows collaboration, and yet we need to resort to teams to allow collaboration to occur. — Kevin B 1 min ago
 
5:46 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sublow
The scary thing, or cool thing (depending on how you look at it) is that this is basically the exact premise of Blade Runner. How do you tell what is a machine and what is human when the machine is this humanlike? — Sublow 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
@HolyBlackCat These next collectives will not be sponsored initially and the sponsorship model is different from the collectives launched thus far. There is more detail in this post. It seems likely that a CI/CD provider would be one eventual sponsor, but they would not have a management role in the collective (nor would any other sponsor). We expect this arrangement to be the more common one for collectives in the long term. — Berthold ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
@Roland I'll make sure we don't reach out to you for doing pre-launch collaboration. I do hope that you'll join the R collective when it launches though, to at least check out the experience. — Berthold ♦ 8 secs ago
 
6:05 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
@Dharmaraj It's been interesting working with the different customers about how the RM role will work in practice, since each one has different ideas about how that ties into their larger developer relations strategy. (Ref my third bullet in the "learnings" section). That's part of why it's been slow-going to promote community members. The automated processes are in place and we (SO) are happily endorsing community members, but things are just moving slowly in some cases as the the respective plans are coming into place. — Berthold ♦ 34 secs ago
 
6:20 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by nicael
@impro thankz for remindah! done — nicael 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Lundin: Trust isn't a natural number by any means. It can dip negative because, even if you absolutely distrust something, it could be ultimately more trustworthy than an even less savory option. People are always willing to put up with something long beyond the point that "trust" is gone, and only when something cataclysmic happens will they shift. (Shameless plug for "Trust Thermocline" goes here) — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
@Makoto this whole set of posts is laying out the vision for this next set of collectives that will be community-shaped and community-led. With a different sponsorship model that cleanly separates the commercial elements and community elements of collectives. That is the plan. It's all there. The community feedback, sentiment and input has been a huge factor in mapping out this vision. If you feel that something vital is missing, please be specific. We're working to be transparent and forthcoming, and it will take time, but please don't take the stance that we're doing and saying nothing. — Berthold ♦ 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Berthold: Where...in this answer...did you synthesize that I said you were doing nothing? I did state that I wished that this reflection included some perspective on how the team planned to rebuild trust, to which the response is that "it'll take time". I've been waiting for a very long time. I did highlight that you haven't started working on rebuilding trust - and if you interpreted that as me saying that you've done nothing, then I apologize - that's very much not what I said. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Berthold: I'm not naive when it comes to the work that needs to be done to rebuild trust. But I haven't seen anything that you've done to do that. I'm simply told that you're working on it. How much longer yet are we going to keep us waiting? Why wasn't this post seized as the opportunity to showcase - transparently and publicly - that you were serious about doing this? Why do I have to be placated with "we're working on it, please understand, thank you for your patience"? Y'know... again?? — Makoto 1 min ago
 
6:43 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
Recognized Members are not moderators, I want to be clear about that. They are "curators" if you want to pick a term, though that one is much less defined here. RMs have oversight on articles within the collective, but those articles are subject to the same moderation approach as Q&A and adhere to guidelines that were established by the community. Global rules may evolve out of this, but I suspect you'd also be unhappy if Stack Overflow was unilaterally dictating those global rules at this stage. We want to let these groups explore what works and share ideas with one another. — Berthold ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
We're looking to the community members within these collectives to help define the rules and evolve them over time. Yes, this initial collaboration is happening on a Team, but that is for reasons of focus, not secrecy. The output will be public. One of the first discussions with each group will be about where the planning and collaboration will happen in the long term. And FWIW there’s clear notices on the Team that all conversations should be conducted with the assumption that they may eventually be shared with the broader community. — Berthold ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
Relatedly, advertising programming courses (assuming, of course, that they're good) seems to be a good way to provide an off-ramp for users looking for more general learning guidance that is off-topic in Stack Overflow Q&A. Recommending a way for users coming here looking for this to get it without asking off-topic questions seems like a good idea, especially if that supports the site financially. — Ryan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
To rebuild trust we are creating the next set of collectives which will be community-shaped and community-led, with a different sponsorship model that cleanly separates the commercial elements and community elements of collectives, incorporating the feedback and input from the community provided since the initial launch of Collectives, and working to do this in a transparent and collaborative way. It's a lot to cover in one post, that's why there's five. — Berthold ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by chivracq
"preview window" <> "review window"... :idea: — chivracq 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@chivracq Maybe it would be better to call it the preview area. Done. — Andrew Morton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by chivracq
Oh...!?, pb was not "window", but "preview" != "review", the Typo is still there... — chivracq 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@chivracq The two are different things. If you forget to add a title to a question, you get a review page. — Andrew Morton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by chivracq
Oh...!?, so you really meant "review"...!?, OK, oops, I thought you had a Typo... (I've never asked a Qt, nor on SO nor Meta, so I didn't know you were getting a "review window" before the final 'Submit'... (I'll remove my Comments in 1 or 2 min...) — chivracq 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user
To see how the Stack Exchange community views this: What about the community is "toxic" to new users?user 20 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
If not allowing low quality posts to poison the network is toxic, then we are proudly toxic. That is literally the design goal. — Kevin B 1 min ago
 
7:31 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
Why would I want to, though? The question has a ton of answers already and I don't really see what your attempted answer adds that hasn't already been covered here. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BSMP
This solution is already covered by this existing answer. — BSMP 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scotty Jamison
I'd rather that StackOverflow didn't try to go into docs. That seems like an entirely different product. Lets just have StackOverflow focus on doing what it does best, being a Q&A site. Nothing stopping some other company from coming up with a collaborative docs site. I mean, yes, the concept sounds really nice, I'd just be worried about having SO split their attention between two very different products. — Scotty Jamison 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
No; A more detailed higher quality variation of your answer already exists. Preventing multiple variations (of various degrees of quality) of the same answer, to highly active questions, is the reason protected questions exists. It also only takes a single upvote, to a single answer, to answer protected questions.Security Hound 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
My issue, as usual, is with trying to repeatedly, with almost everything they release, pretend it isn't what it is through marketspeak meant to skirt around the fact that it's just more advertising. — Kevin B 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Travis J
@ScottyJamison - I definitely agree, and I think that overall the community didn't necessarily blend well with the idea of providing "documentation" in place per se. That said, there is clearly a place and desire for something for free form. To some degree each of these newer features touch on that idea, but it is always a glancing blow. Specifically, we lack a place for users to create "code for general use cases". In some aspects that is done with dupe targets or canonicals, so to speak, but it does seem that there is a place for that somewhere here, if something were to be attempted.. imo — Travis J 18 secs ago
 
8:11 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Clive
Quick easy test that works for the majority of questions - what programming language is your question about? — Clive 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dave Newton
Because it’s not a programming question—it’s system administration. — Dave Newton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Berthold: Interesting. So from the perspective of the Collectives initiative, the loss of trust is not a factor of Collectives themselves, but a factor of how their features were rolled out? Am I interpreting that right or am I missing something? — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MisterMiyagi
In your own words, in how far is "nvidia driver dependency problems" actually "about programming"? — MisterMiyagi 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MisterMiyagi
Isn't that the exact same approach used by the very answer you link to? — MisterMiyagi 1 min ago
 
9:08 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
I wouldn't be surprised if when you post on a more appropriate community, the first thing you're to do is update the OS; 18.04 has very limited support and in about to entirely run out of support. — Larnu 34 secs ago
 
9:48 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
@Makoto I'd say that is accurate. There is a general confidence, grounded in extensive research, that the core idea of "a subcommunity on Stack Overflow around a set of tags and/or area of practice" is worth exploring and has lots of potential benefit. And similar confidence that a long-form content format could exist effectively and beneficially alongside Q&A. Due to the choice to first explore these ideas with a commercially-focused implementation, that is the only way that the community was able to experience them. — Berthold ♦ 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Berthold
Separate from the reception of the commercial aspects, the rollout could have been done better, and there have also been the expected ups and downs that are part of any beta product's launch. For some in the community, I think those core ideas may be irrevocably tainted by the first implementation, the difficult rollout, and the beta learning process. The core ideas are being brought forth again in another implementation. There will be learnings, as before. As I said, the hope is that those who have been frustrated or disappointed can keep an open mind as we continue forward. — Berthold ♦ 50 secs ago
 
10:00 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Berthold: Okay, got it. I vehemently and categorically disagree with the framing of this being the root cause of trust being damaged and I do not anticipate that this will rebuild trust with the community, but you've at least done the thing I asked - which was explain what you were doing to rebuild trust. — Makoto 39 secs ago
 
10:35 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by John Montgomery
This isn't the first inconsistency of that sort I've seen, for some reason the preview and actual output use different markdown renderers. I've never seen an explanation for why that is though. — John Montgomery 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by chivracq
Also visible from the 'Timeline' Button as "2023-02-02 02:54:18Z - history - closed - User1 / User2 / User3 - Not suitable for this site", (+ Links on the 3 Users), always has been... (Myself = 0.6k-Rep, logged in.) — chivracq 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user4581301
You took the tour and that's great, but you owe it to yourself to also take a stroll through the Help Center for more detailed site usage information. — user4581301 50 secs ago
 
11:01 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scotty Jamison
So, the issue is more with the presentation, not the idea itself? I dunno, I don't find anything misleading or "overly-marketing" about their presentation - in the first sentence, they state that this is advertisements. It's true that the title originally didn't state this, but the vast majority of the downvotes came after the title change, not before. Though, maybe you're finding something to be misleading or offputting that I'm not? Perhaps their general tone of voice? — Scotty Jamison 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
i mean, i can't really answer for why everyone else downvoted it, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Very well could be mostly people who'd never see these ads anyway. — Kevin B 29 secs ago
 

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