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1:05 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by General Grievance
@JirayuKaewprateep You're only now trying to explain what it does? And they still doesn't look relevant to the questions asked. On this one especially, you give an explanation then immediately contradict yourself with that code sample. — General Grievance 43 secs ago
 
1:40 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
You should edit that question and address the reasons it was closed. Closed question’s cannot be answered. — Security Hound 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
@AlexeiLevenkov - How exactly do you know a user with hundreds of questions cannot be question banned? I certainly have seen users with a good amount of questions end up near the threshold. — Security Hound 12 secs ago
 
2:46 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by starball
@DotNetRussell so... did you personally verify the correctness of the ~31 answers you posted recently with an average time spacing of 147 seconds in between them? If not, when you talk about the community weeding out the problematic posts, does that mean you don't count yourself as part of the community with respect to that cleanup work? It wouldn't really look good on your argument if it turned out you had a conflict of interest motivating behaviour of your own which put strain (and possible harm) on the community. — starball 11 secs ago
 
 
3 hours later…
5:51 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jonathan Leffler
Thanks, @o11c. That's in pretty good agreement with my round-figures estimate. — Jonathan Leffler 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by starball
[ Boson ] New comment posted by starball
 
6:25 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Shadow The Kid Wizard
Well done! Glad you made the right decision and really hope it will become permanent and be extended to ban any AI generated answers. AI will never be able to post good programming answers, not even in 100 years. — Shadow The Kid Wizard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Shadow The Kid Wizard
No no it's perfect and proves how stupid this thing really is. — Shadow The Kid Wizard 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
well, @ShadowTheKidWizard, it does have the correct answer in this case... — Samathingamajig 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
For now, should it also be banned on Meta Stack Overflow? The only mention of meta is where the rules will be discussed — Samathingamajig 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dbc
What happens if you ask, why should stack overflow allow ai generated answers?dbc 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
@dbc added, great suggestion — Samathingamajig 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cigien
@Samathingamajig There's no need to ban it on Meta. The problems outlined in this question don't really apply to Meta, e.g. programming answers are not on-topic here, so SMEs aren't required to evaluate the answers. More importantly, the scale is completely different. Meta can't possibly get thousands of AI generated answers a day; it'll get noticed immediately if even 5-6 such answers get posted, and the community/moderators can deal with that quantity quite easily. — cigien 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bombcar
Interesting that both answers bring up the inaccuracy. — bombcar 35 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jimmy
But how can you tell!? — Jimmy 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew T.
@Samathingamajig well, unless the answerer is targeting some required badges for moderator nomination, posting on meta doesn't really give any reward to the answerer, especially reputation. — Andrew T. 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lemon Drop
@Samathingamajig Sure but it illustrates why it's not very useful. It is very sensitive to presumptions in the query itself (like if using it in SO answers is a good thing or not). It's not doing any actual thinking nor does it have consistent reasoning so it easily will fall into telling you what you want to hear when giving loaded questions like this. To me that just makes it about as useful as a Google search just with a much more well-spoken presentation given its understanding of English at least. — Lemon Drop 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
@LemonDrop I was making a joke in my response comment — Samathingamajig 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lemon Drop
@Samathingamajig Fair enough, still think it's good to point out though, and I mean I think your post in general illustrates that which is useful. — Lemon Drop 53 secs ago
 
7:08 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
I think this should be its own question, and link back to this question — Samathingamajig 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
The two major problems with this is that the solution could be wrong/misinforming but work temporarily, and eventually, this service could cost money (it's currently in the "Free Research Preview"; though there are bound to be free clones of this caliber eventually) — Samathingamajig 33 secs ago
 
7:31 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dan1st
Aside from that, it doesn't make the thing with wrong/incomplete/potentially dangerous (?) answers better. — dan1st 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dan1st
What about asking ChatGPT whether or not the answers are from ChatGPT? (I'm just joking) — dan1st 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by AKX
There are some "tells": It looks like the issue/There are a few problems ... To fix this,/Here is an example of, and the answer nearly always ends with I hope this helps! unless it's been cropped out. — AKX 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by forest
The problem with this is that it provides answers which look correct but aren't necessarily actually correct. — forest 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
Answers generated by AI language models like ChatGPT can sometimes be detected by their content, style, and other characteristics. For example, answers generated by AI models may contain factual errors, lack coherence or cohesiveness, or use a distinctive language or style that is not typical of human-written text. (response written by ChatGPT lmao) — Samathingamajig 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Michael Anderson
My favourite thought question is "to what extent could these reasons apply to banning human answers. Humans are pretty guilty of "answers may not always be accurate or helpful, and there may be concerns about the potential for bias... " — Michael Anderson 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user10186832
Does this answer your question? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludditeuser10186832 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
It's all fun and games until system("sudo rm -rf /") appears and the user blindly runs it — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
@SecurityHound there is a feature request for that: Force members to leave comments when they upvotegnat 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Polydynamical
guys chill with the downvotes — Polydynamical 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Longson
Best if you delete it. — Robert Longson 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dan Mašek
If someone wants this, they should probably set up their own clone of SO and run it there. It's not like we don't have enough human generated crap to drown in already. — Dan Mašek 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dan1st
Is it allowed to base an answer on ChatGPT when still checking and testing it? — dan1st 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nordine Lotfi
I don't know why no one is mentioning or taking into account this, but AI is just a name made for marketing...the closest thing would be Neural Network, but that's also not it either. I feel like Statistical Learning is a much better term for this. AI is in no way intelligent, even if you take into account the result (which is mostly random in most times instead of deterministic). — Nordine Lotfi just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yavar
But that is a perfectly valid answer. This is the use of a tech to answer a question and is just for illustrative purposes to show the strength of a large language model. Being honest and an avid SO user I have provided the right disclaimer. I mean, even if I delete this answer, will it help to stop the ChatGPT storm? — Yavar 20 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Longson
If you don't delete it people might use it to justify their chatGPT answers. Best not stick your head over the parapet in a war even if you don't intend to shoot anyone. — Robert Longson 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
@dan1st That will be decided in the future, as for now I personally believe that it should be allowed as long as you don't say what it says verbatim and you verify its accuracy — Samathingamajig 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yavar
Ok, I understand. I was trying to delete but I cannot as it is the accepted answer now. — Yavar 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@MichaelAnderson the difference is that poor human answers are also rather recognizable. They usually lack explanations or are poorly written. AI generated answers look like genuine good answers and only fall apart when you try to apply them as they are mostly incorrect. Also people alone cannot possibly generate such amount of incorrect answers like AI can. There are SO users active for years that previously produced only few answers now posting over 50 in less than a day. The amount of AI generated answers could suffocate SO if everyone starts doing it. — Dalija Prasnikar 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
I'm assuming that most people didn't click on your answer to see that all you used was code provided by GPTChat. You should edit your answer to include explanations. Since the author of the question verified that the solution worked, the answer should not be deleted. — Samathingamajig 14 secs ago
 
8:40 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yavar
Ok I deleted my post as well, the answer can be deleted by people who have the right permissions to do so. I will delete this answer as well from Meta. — Yavar 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bad_coder
This could be the perfect tool for the staging ground: "Does this answer your question?"bad_coder 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
@bad_coder that's what this post is saying, and it has been heavily downvoted and explained why that's a bad idea. were you going for a joke on your name "bad_coder"? — Samathingamajig 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by l4mpi
"AI-generated answers could potentially provide more accurate and detailed answers to users' questions. This could be especially useful for complex technical questions that may be difficult for human experts to answer" - That's a good one. It might not be great for generating answers based on facts instead of bullshit, but it seems pretty decent as a joke generator. — l4mpi 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
It's good that such content isn't allowed, however, what as we, as curators, do? The above post says that the answers can look like good answers, which means that to the trained eye they would likely warrant a downvote because they're wrong, but that doesn't warrant flagging. At "best" this means the user might get some downvotes while gaining some upvotes too, due to it looking like a good answer. I have no idea how I tell an answer is ChatGPT generated, and custom flags take months to be resolved right now meaning that a user could continue to harm the site till the flag is handled. — Larnu 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alex Poole
Whether the AI-generated answers are correct or not, "Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for professional and enthusiast programmers." That applies for both the Q and A part. Someone who just copies and pastes Q&A into/from an AI tool doesn't seem to count as either to me. Even if they check and test it; if they can really verify it's a good correct answer they should have been able to write it themselves. That doesn't necessarily mean there isn't (or won't be) a place for AI on the internet, but it doesn't seem to belong here. — Alex Poole 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andy
Fortunately some members are boasting about posting lots of answers using CGPT on Twitter making it very easy to identify them here and flag them. — Andy 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Boann
It should not be temporary. — Boann 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by snakecharmerb
The user's account has a suspension banner for rule violations, so perhaps there is a reason for deletion that we are not privy to. — snakecharmerb 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rob
That user spammed the site with around 60 AI generated answers over a period of 5 hours. See meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/421831/…Rob ♦ 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Cameron
Gotcha. The AI got the answer largely right in this case, so... [shrug], what's the harm? Or was it a blanket "delete all this user's answers whether or not they're actually good ones" thing? — Adam Cameron 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Looking at the user profile: "This account is temporarily suspended for rule violations. The suspension period ends in 7 days." That should give you an hint. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Just because it's "Largely right" doesn't make it a good answer. — Cerbrus 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user158037
It looks like it will need to implement in SO anyway, even if the result isn't show to end-user - just to detect answers that are generated by same tool. — user158037 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samathingamajig
We did it! We won! "Our services aren't available right now. We're working to restore all services as soon as possible. Please check back soon." — Samathingamajig 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
Saves reviewing all 60 of their answers, since ChatGPT seems to have a decent rate of outright wrong answers and even contradicting itself. The user hasn't done their due diligence checking them (as evidence by the high rate of answers), why should the burden be thrown on the community? — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rob
@AdamCameron Because there are plenty of answers which aren't even close to being largely right. Some aren't even in the correct programming language. But even if we were assume these are good answers, what's the point in having them on SO when users can generate the answers themselves on the fly? — Rob ♦ 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by β.εηοιτ.βε
[ Boson ] New comment posted by l4mpi
I've accepted this answer as no other actionable suggestions have surfaced. So to summarize, simply using socials of other people is not enough reason to bother a mod, only report it if there's evidence of bad behaviour along with it. — l4mpi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bad_coder
Even better, for the FGITW: "Is this your answer?"bad_coder 1 min ago
 
9:20 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by luk2302
If we see a user posting multiple answers that very well look like AI generated should we just downvote and flag normally or should we involved a moderator flag? — luk2302 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Longson
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrafiCode
@AKX could you post more examples? I ask this because I usually begin answers with "Looks like...", "Seems to be", "There are multiple issues" and similar, I swear I don't use CGPT — GrafiCode 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by AKX
@GrafiCode See this search for examples; with a quick eyeballing the 10 newest answers are likely all ChatGPT. — AKX 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by QBrute
Aha! I knew something was going on. I found a user who joined a few days ago, and posted a ton of answers in just a few hours on very different tags and topics. Most of them were text only and seemed kinda off and inaccurate. After downvoting, they quickly deleted their answers. Now, this user seems to be suspended for plagiarism if that is the same user I saw yesterday, or they've deleted their account. So I guess this is what happened here. — QBrute 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Cameron
Yeah, fair cop re not eyeballing all 60. "Largely right" would make the answer higher quality than a lot of the answers on here, yeah ;-). In this case I'm a subject material expert, and the answer is fine. lastly I'd say if an AI can answer a question well, then who cares if it's an AI doing it? The raison d'etre here is to get questions answered, right? Are we in the position for someone to actually add an answer to this, and... move on? Cheers for the feedback. — Adam Cameron 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Karl Knechtel
@PeterMortensen "Work orders" are not particularly likely to be duplicates (although some popular courses keep using the same questions), but they are likely to contain one or more duplicates (i.e. a duplicate is what remains after the asker has done enough work to create a question that is suitable at all). — Karl Knechtel 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew T.
Honestly, I'd guess the outcome wouldn't be like this (temporary) blanket ban if the users had been more responsible on using the AI and not claiming as their own writing or even their own idea... just because of quick rep. — Andrew T. 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
Problem with AI generated answers is that huge number of them will be incorrect while looking like a good answer (elaborately written). Common poor answer written by people usually lack explanation and so they are more easily detected. Also if we let AI generated answer then everyone will start writing them and the sheer number of such mostly incorrect answers will suffocate the site. For the sake of few answers that might be correct we cannot allow this. Incorrect answers waste everyone's time. — Dalija Prasnikar 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Guru Stron
Also we can post the question to the ChatGPT and check if answer is the same) — Guru Stron 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Karl Knechtel
This is, in terms of English technical proficiency, better than a lot of high-school and university-level writing I've seen; and contains about the same amount of thought (i.e., none). — Karl Knechtel 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Aside from this just not being a good solution, the API ain't free, and at the rate SO is getting questions and answers, this will get very pricy very fast. — Cerbrus 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GOTO 0
Have to agree with @KarlKnechtel. This is not worse in any way than most human-written answers I read on meta. — GOTO 0 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
OR. You are mistaken, because you can't see what a moderator like Martijn can see. Don't write meta posts toned as if there is no way you can be wrong. — Gimby 54 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mkrieger1
It seems to be fixed now. — mkrieger1 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Cameron
I don't think I did that, Gimby, and sorry if I did give you that impression. I was asking for clarity (and suggesting clarity in the first place might've negated the need to ask). I'd be interested in the downvotes here, btw. Given I got good engagement from the comments, and this is the mechanism Stack Overflow suggests for making this line of questioning, how could I have improved the question? — Adam Cameron 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
"How long will it take for my account to be restored after editing my questions?" - Editing your questions does not in any way guarantee that anything will happen at all. It is not the editing that does it, the questions would have to receive upvotes to counter the downvotes. It is the score going into the positive that makes all the difference. The chance of that happening are not great, your questions are competing for attention with thousands of other questions daily. New questions look more interesting than downvoted questions. — Gimby 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
I personally side with eventually allowing AI, but the current large influx of answers, incomplete rules, and users completely disregarding factual accuracy and preferring quantity over quality is very concerning, and definitely worth temporarily banning it over. Even prior to the blanket ban, the policy was that they're okay, but are treated as answers copied from any source on the internet (which is what Martijn used to deal with the answer; AI-generated + no source = deletion). — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
But yeah, you're right. It's effectively an answer ban while we're sorting stuff out. There's probably going to be more discussions in the upcoming days and weeks to sort everything out, while we mods (and possibly the community at large) figure out how we deal with the bad answers, at least if the consensus is to allow it in the long run — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Cameron
Cheers @Cerberus: makes sense. I guess the missing bit was perhaps the automated closing of the answer (legit, as it turns out) could also automatically add an explanatory comment, then the situation would not have been so opaque? Anyhow, not a big deal. Appreciate the clear answer (from you and a lot of of the commenters). — Adam Cameron 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by philipxy
"the civil and professional thing to do" is to presume that people have acted in a civil and professional way & not jump to unjustified conclusions in ignorance of the particular situation & the site rules. — philipxy just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by NineBerry
@GuruStron That's not possible because ChatGPT seems to never generate the same answer twice. There is some randomness included in the process that generates the answer. — NineBerry 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Current AI can't write good code answers. I don't see that happening in the coming few years. GitHub Copilot, for example, more often than not misses the mark, and that's an AI specialized in code. In regards to the opacity, @Adam, There is no way to add a note like that to a answer deletion. And as suspension reasons are private, adding a comment stating "This answer was deleted because OP broke rule X" breaks that privacy. — Cerbrus 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
Well ask yourself the question: can Python programmers answer that question? I don't think so, it would be the much smaller pool of people using Django and Vue AND vite together. Not that I really know what Vite has to do with this problem, to be honest. That needs to be explained better. Are you missing plugins, for example? — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
As an aside, adding that comment to every answer we delete at the moment is a massive addition to moderator workload. We're looking at upwards of thousands of deletions per day atm. Adding a comment to all of them just to appease 10k users who don't follow what's going on is an excessive amount of work for little benefit. OP is always informed when we delete answers over AI-related reasons, so it's just for 10k users at this point — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by philipxy
Meta up/down vote reasons include agreement/disagreement with a post proposal or premise. — philipxy 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
This question jumps to the conclusion that the mod is wrong, in the title: "Overrule, misguided". Then it asserts the mod failed to supply a reason they're not even allowed to supply, and indirectly calls the moderator (by name) uncivil and unprofessional. That's why you got my downvote. I assume other users may have similar reasoning. — Cerbrus 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
"and contains about the same amount of thought (i.e., none)." Well that made my day! xD — Cerbrus 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
I don't think those indicators are gonna disappear. People will still continue writing poor quality answers. A group of users might move to ChatGPT, and a group of users might start "contributing", but I doubt everyone will just abandon their "I wrote this" pride and just go for the bot altogether. — Cerbrus 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
I'd rather see that money go to plagiarism checking rather than creating a questionable answer that may or may not be correct (but often isn't) — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by l0b0
@Cerbrus Thanks, modified to clarify that the indicators are no longer usable only on generated content. — l0b0 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
"No, that is not even close to the only requirement, or to the standard expected." - agreed for 95% of the site. But for the SQL tag though... its a different subculture. The "not-exactly-programming" subculture. Questions in such topics tend to be personal support questions, it's just the way it is. I really hope someday these topics are moved out of Stack Overflow so we can stop being pedantic about it. — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
The sad truth is that moderation didn't keep up even before this. The mod flag queue has been swamped with plagiarism flags, for example. There have been other abuses of the system that are hard to root out like voting fraud. That's on top of just content moderation - there is plenty of terrible answers on the site. And a big influx of questions of which a large portion shouldn't have been asked. The close review queue has some 3k items in it. A lot of CVs simply get ejected from the queue and age out because we can't handle all of this. First questions is at 8k items right now. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Good edit +1. I'm not sure how we'd fix the problem but still. — Cerbrus 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
"Do we need to consider, however remote, the possibility that the sites will be unfeasible to moderate in the near future" - IMO... the site already is and has been for years. Doesn't stop it from chugging along anyway even though the garbage pile is growing. We're just going to have to suffer through more "why was I banned" and "Stack Overflow is toxic!" meta posts as the pile grows and people keep being automatically banned for contributing to it blissfully ignorant of what they should post on Stack Overflow and what they should post literally anywhere else on the web. — Gimby 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
In that chain... we need what we've always needed; more people doing moderation, better tools to assist people doing moderation, and automation in whatever areas can be automated to reduce the amount of people required for doing moderation. Sadly, the company is allergic to both the latter options (though mainly the automation one, tooling is allegedly being worked on, just really slowly). The former is not really in their control, and it's really hard to produce that interest in the first place — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
I want to call this plagiarism to be honest. People are taking an "answer" from somewhere else and posting it as if it is their own work. Sigh. How low can you go. Digital de-evolution. I rank this the same as deep faking celebrities, a really deplorable use of really cool technology. — Gimby 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
@Gimby That's what we've been rolling with so far (prior to the blanket ban). Many users who use chatgpt blatantly disregard it anyway, so here we are — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
Hopefully some of stuff proposed here, if implemented, will help the moderators, as trusted™ community members will be more empowered to help them for some tasks. — Larnu 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
@Larnu I suspect they're going to implement something, but we'll have to wait and see if they actually implement roles of value to moderation. But again, "just really slowly" -- SE isn't known for their rapid response times to problems in need of a technical solution. We might be looking at anywhere from 3-4 months to a full year (and based on their history, probably siding on the longer side) before it's fully rolled out. More if you count the obligatory dev-on-prod phase — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Cameron
@Zoe cool yeah. I kind of imagined that if there was a "bulk change" option, then "provide a comment with the bulk change" might also be a thing. I do not have visibility of the tooling in question, so was simply speculating that it would be useful for the gen. pop. ppl like me who have only "it's been deleted" to go on (hence this question in the first place). Even the ChatGPT thing mentioned in the "closed /duplicate" note on this is not immediately apparent as being the reason from where I sit, out in the gen. pop. I do appreciate all the clarifications. — Adam Cameron 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
Considering how slow the staging ground roll out has been, @ZoestandswithUkraine , I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any fruit from that proposal before Q2 2024.... — Larnu 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
To clarify, the only bulk deletion tooling that exists is for comments. Sadly. Mass-deleting questions or answers is a chore of ctrl-click, md<cr><c-w> (in any grouping order). Any additional actions are done uniquely, though often with the help of tools created by ourselves because we have garbage tooling in the first place — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
@Larnu The main difference is that they have a team dedicated to mod tooling, whereas the staging ground lot (AFAIK) are just normal public platform devs. I have no idea what the size of the team is though, nor if they've hired dedicated developers for it. We'll see I suppose — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Al Mamun Khan
Martijn's answer is correct, but I think only images more easy way to find out quick solution. Nothing else.! — Al Mamun Khan 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Spidy
I don't know about you guys but this integration will be essential. Less unnecessary questions. — Spidy 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Killroy
The problem is, all you need to do is ask it to write a reply that does not look like something written by ChatGPT. It's a language model. It does language really well. — Killroy 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user10186832
It would be the perfect tool for "Homework" questions. AI should be part of the answer to the question "What have you tried?" — user10186832 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DeltaIV
@KenWhite I see the notorious attitude of some SO users is confirmed. — DeltaIV 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marcus M&#252;ller
@Killroy I don't know how ChatGPT was trained, but it might even have been trained in conjunction with a classifier for human/AI, which gets trained with the ChatGPT output, until it's very good at telling AI language from human language, which is then used to train the AI to become better at deceiving said classifier, until that can't tell AI from human anymore; swap who's getting trained, rinse, repeat… it might very well be computationally (read: financially) infeasible to ever find an automated way of telling ChatGPT from a human user with good English skills. — Marcus Müller 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by EugenSunic
Was it me that forced SO into creating that policy? — EugenSunic 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marcus M&#252;ller
@ShadowTheKidWizard where exactly do you "not even in 100 years, AI will be able to post good programming answers" from? I'd argue you're 100 years late for that claim. ChatGPT was trained as a universal language model. If the same effort was put into making it specifically adapted to posting good answers here and even a modicum of effort was put into telling it how to judge quality of an answer (we have exactly that: it's called upvotes, and you can maybe even weigh in answerer's reputation), then it would mostly be posting good answers, by our own standards. — Marcus Müller 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
@EugenSunic You alone? No. Not unless you've somehow created probably hundreds of accounts by now, spread across the globe, varied between brand new accounts spewing out answers until they're rate limited, and old accounts dumping answers, and done so in a way that lets you concurrently maintain several of them at once. Unless you are the matrix, I doubt you have. But you've contributed to the problem and consequently this policy. — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by luk2302
@EugenSunic most certainly not, more likely that the 1000s of BS answers that are currently being submitted were the reason. Already flagged like 10 users and ~50 answers. — luk2302 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
Meta would be the place to ask, lacking the possibility to ask in a chat room based on your reputation points. How are you searching? I google "html input setter" and I get this as the top result: stackoverflow.com/questions/40320686/…Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marcus M&#252;ller
@ShadowTheKidWizard Really, many of the new-user, low-effort answers are for all practical purposes effectively duplicates, because any "knowledgeable" user would know that "iterating over a list of integers" is the same as "going through list of floats one by one" in Python – and that's exactly what such a language model excels at. Beginners are just really bad at knowing what to search for. The AI is really good at that. It reproduces, in coherent English, adapted non-deleted answers. — Marcus Müller 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marcus M&#252;ller
@ShadowTheKidWizard I've just shown: if the median answer to a simple question from ChatGPT is bad, that's probably because the median human answer here is at the very best not much better (and I'd argue, especially for newbie questions, that's actually the case. A lot of the answerers are the one-eyed leading the blind). So, I'd be really careful about making these predictions. They reek a bit of self-idolization. Be proud for what you are: Someone with a judgement of their own, not some model optimized for sounding like someone like that. But: a good answer here needs no own judgement! — Marcus Müller 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marcus M&#252;ller
I'd like to point out that OpenAI probably pays big time right now for the server, GPU and memory and electricity it uses, not even considering the training costs (these typically range in the lower single-digit millions for complex language models). An OpenAI-paid-for ChatGPT answer is going to be really expensive if someone actually needs to pay for it. — Marcus Müller 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Shadow The Kid Wizard
@MarcusMüller so if I read correctly between the (many) lines, what you're saying is that the AI only copy and paste existing answers, and that's why it must be good? Sorry, but I find it sadly funny. — Shadow The Kid Wizard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
Yes, I addressed that point towards the end. It's possible that, even if successful, this trial can't work for financial reasons. The good news is that, if this does become too expensive for Stack Overflow, it's gonna also be too expensive for random Joe's trying to gain cheap reputation this way. My understanding is that the problem, for now, is the gold rush of random Joe's trying to get a number to go up. — badp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marcus M&#252;ller
@ShadowTheKidWizard you do not read correctly. The AI contextualizes, and synthesizes an answer that fits the prompt. Whether or not it is intelligent is irrelevant to the question of posting good answers. — Marcus Müller 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
I added that paragraph into the answer; it shouldn't have remained in my head — badp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marcus M&#252;ller
yepyep, agreeing with you! The good news is that OpenAI themselves say it's free for the duration of the public preview; in other word, this is a promo phase to get customers, but even more likely, big investors, hooked. Who cares if you break the internet and make 20 million in debt if you're getting bought for 200 million afterwards? — Marcus Müller 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@Spidy did you miss the part where AI writes crap answers? — Cerbrus 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
ChatGPT needs an API to determine if a text has been ChatGPT output in the past (X time)... — Cerbrus 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by NineBerry
ChatGPT does not give a canonical answer to a certain question. If you ask the same question multiple times, you will get multiple different answers that sometimes even make conflicting statements. There seems to be a random element used when the AI generates its answer. — NineBerry 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
So an automated bot dumps crap answers on questions... You're missing one glaring problem: ChatGPT doesn't return the same answer for the exact same question twice, so any user that probably also doesn't use the exact same input will absolutely get a different answer... This solution doesn't solve anything. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
"if this does become too expensive for Stack Overflow, it's gonna also be too expensive for random Joe's trying to gain cheap reputation this way" A thousand users with a thousand free / trial accounts can posts tens of thousands of generated answers... SE, a single entity, will have to fork over cash for every single answer they automatically generate. You can't compare corporate usage with individual usage. — Cerbrus 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
We've been over this twice already. — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
You clearly didn't read the other answers here: ChatGPT writes bad answers, contradicts itself in the answers, and is extremely costly to implement on a scale SE would require. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marcus M&#252;ller
@Cerbrus and how do you propose to make that invariant to minor modifications (the answer is: train a language model… see my comment directly above yours) — Marcus Müller 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@Marcus hey it's the best I got :D There's a lot of plagiarism detection software that can determine how likely it is to be the source. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adam Cameron
Gotcha. Thanks for the peek inside the sausage factory ;-) — Adam Cameron 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
“How about implementing the bot natively on the platform?” - No; These CGPT answers are absolutely horrible and useless. — Security Hound 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user16042504
Aggressive responses are one of the things that discourage people from posting here, another advantage of ChatGPT. By the way, have you tried to tell him that the answer is wrong or bad? He usually fixes it. I won't insist, it's just my opinion. :) — user16042504 7 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by iBug
IMO anyone that have read sufficient material should be able to tell 'em apart. If someone posts a ChatGPT answer just once it'd probably be easy to handle, and if someone turns this into a habit we can also identify. — iBug 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BDL
The problem isn't ChatGPT itself. Feel absolutely free to use it to solve your own problems. You may even use it during your research for writing an answer here. The real problem are users who copy-paste ChatGPT answer to SO without even checking if they are correct at a high rate. We had a user yesterday who posted 20 answers in a little bit over an hour, were at least a third of the answers didn't even match the programming language of the question or were outright wrong. — BDL 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by iBug
I don't think this needs to be explicitly exempted. It usually takes more time and effort to verify a machine-generated answer than to write one yourself, with less garbage and verbosity included. — iBug 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
And who is going to tell the bot the answer is bad, if it's just automatically showing the author of the question (that doesn't know the answer) whatever it generated? Who's to stop the bot from giving a incorrect, or even dangerous answer? And who on earth is gonna pay for the bot? — Cerbrus 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user16042504
@BDL Your point is good and worth considering. I'll think about it. — user16042504 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by iBug
I must admit that there's no definitive way to determine if a specific answer is AI-generated, but if someone posts a stream of terrible answers, our existing policy (plus the auto ban system) handles that very well. — iBug 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
@NineBerry the idea of running the model a whole lot of times and picking the best answer is almost certainly already baked into ChatGPT, meaning that yes you can reroll by hand but it's not going to be super effective — badp 20 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BDL
[2/2] Unless you find a way that the person who copies the answer to SO makes sure that it's a good answer and tells the bot when he is wrong, this isn't going to scale. You can't rely on volunteers here to vote on these answers to get the signal. That's not going to scale on the size of SO. — BDL 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by alexia
yeah i guess you're right, it probably has more value for asking about specific details than answering the entire question. — alexia 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
@Cerbrus you are arguing that Stack Overflow has no choice but to implement my answer, then. After all, ChatGPT is only the first but not necessarily the last, best, or cheapest way to build a Q&A answering machine. We might see a stablediffusion-style version of this model that's open access and good eonugh for most uses. Own the abuse, or drown by it. — badp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
This would defeat the purpose of Stack Overflow. It actually sounds like a completely different service. GH Copilot is doing something like that already, doesn't it? — Dharman ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
@Dharman elaborate? I really don't see how having a robot handling what would only really be the x% easiest answers on the website automatically — a quality problem that has been a thorn in the nail of the website for decades, might I add — would somehow defeat the purpose of a human-run Q&A website. The human curation is still there; the human contribution is still there; the human validation is still there; the human moderation is still there. — badp 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@badp Because if getting an answer can be automated, what is the point in building a repository of answers like Stack Overflow? — Dharman ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
Ultimately the user is responsible for what CGPT generates, if that content for match our quality expectations, then it will be generated. If they submit dozens of low quality answers, then they should be treated as any user who submitted massive amounts of low quality content, regardless if some of that content was higher quality than the rest of their incorrect low quality contributions. BLUF: If you submit 60 answers, regardless of how it was generated, expect some eyebrows to be raised. — Security Hound 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
@Dharman Are you suggesting that your work is worthless? As a former Stack Exchange moderator myself, I would vehemently disagree — badp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@badp No, I am saying that the purpose of Stack Overflow is to provide quality answers to common problems. These answers can then be found by humans searching for the same issues. A bot answering every question on Stack Overflow would go against the purpose of the site. We already have this issue with some users who add a code-only answer or repeat the same solution on multiple questions. — Dharman ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
Additionally: ChatGPT is basically trained on the same dataset as Google: theinternet.zip; what's gonna be tough to Google is gonna be equally tough for ChatGPT to answer. Ultimately we don't know what its ability to answer questions is gonna be like until a trial like this is run. Stack Exchange can run it themselves, or any number of universities can run it on this website for academic research. The difference is that universities need not do their research ethically. — badp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
This ban does not apply to Meta, it applies to Stack Overflow. Also, we can't verify whether or not that answer is any good, as most of us probably aren't subject matter experts. However, I can tell you that question is absolutely not good enough for SO. There's no attempt, there's no context, just "Gimme a tutorial". — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ad&#225;m
@Cerbrus That's not what I meant. I'll clarify. — Adám 45 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ad&#225;m
@Cerbrus Updated post to clarify. — Adám 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by nmeln
@Dalija Prasnikar There is another solution, either ask users to mark if their answer is AI-generated (difficult because some users are in it for reputation points), or SO can integrate with chatGPT to provide "best effort" answers to unanswered questions. — nmeln 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Rate limits don't force people to verify their content, it just makes them wait. — Cerbrus 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
@Dharman I still don't see the contradiction: if the answer to trivial questions is found within theinternet.zip, doesn't that free human beings to research the harder, more interesting questions that aren't so trivially solved? The human side of Stack Overflow — the peer validation — is still there and no robot can give you that. — badp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by NineBerry
@Cerbrus That's the current limit. I propose much stricter limits. — NineBerry 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
I am fully on board with this idea. If you really have two good answers to post then waiting an hour is not an issue. I think posting an answer quicker than 1 per hour (regardless of rep level) is not good for the site. It takes time to search for a duplicate, test the code, write proper explanation and so on. — Dharman ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@badp Precisely. So if a robot can give you an answer, why should it be posted on Stack Overflow? — Dharman ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@Dharman browse the JavaScript tag. There's plenty of decent questions there that you can answer. Why shouldn't someone new to SO be allowed to answer 5 questions in an hour, if the answers are correct, and reasonably explained? — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ad&#225;m
@Cerbrus Whether or not the question is good or not, and whether or on the answer is correct or not, is irrelevant. The answer looks impressive, and would probably fool some users. — Adám 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
@Dharman How does someone asking a question know ahead of time that their answer is contained within theinternet.zip? In terms of being humble, wouldn't that be your default assumption? — badp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@Cerbrus I am really doubtful that someone can find 5 good questions and write a good answer to each one in less than an hour.. — Dharman ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Where do you think I got my rep? Note that I didn't say "good", I said "decent". My point is that we shouldn't be punishing honest users for the abuse from a few. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@badp Because they looked for it already on Google. Asking a question on Stack Overflow is the last resort. It means that a question like that hasn't been asked by anyone else yet. — Dharman ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Bart
Feel free to ask a question on the network-wide meta, linking back to this post, if you feel that this should see a network-wide rollout because the issue is more widespread than just SO. — Bart 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@nmeln To what end? If the users need to mark the answer is AI generated, then it is very likely such answers will be instantly downvoted because most of those answers are wrong and users posting such answers only make moderating here harder. But let's say that user is posting such answer after verifying it is correct. If the user has knowledge to know answer is correct then they have knowledge to write it themselves. Even if the AI would be generating correct answers, then asking questions here that could be answered by AI would be also a waste of everyone's time. — Dalija Prasnikar 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by badp
@Dharman that's desired user behaviour, not actual user behaviour. If things were that easy, we'd never need to close questions as duplicate. — badp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jiř&#237; Baum
Even if an AI does get to the stage of generating good programming answers, they should still not be pasted into SO; the AI should either be a separate functionality, or it may be integrated into SO, but at no stage is it valid to paste an AI answer as though it were written by a user. — Jiří Baum 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
We should keep Stack Overflow clean for questions (problems) and answers that require people to answer correctly. — Dalija Prasnikar 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by UndoneStudios
I agree with this post. SO is not the only place where you answer with code; there is also Code Review and CGCC. It should be for all network-wide sites. — UndoneStudios 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jiř&#237; Baum
A per-day limit (or other time window) might be the better option; that would allow a user to post several answers in one session while still limiting the overall rate. — Jiří Baum 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MisterMiyagi
Can you please restore the actual answer as well as linking to SE meta? — MisterMiyagi 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
@UndoneStudios SO mods have no control of what the rest of the network does, for the record. Other network sites may adopt it, but they may also not — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@Dharman As an expert I can easily write several good and elaborate answers in an hour. If I have an hour now, that does not mean I will be free to write answers in a hour. Also if I save answer for later, question might already be answered by adequate answer and I don't like posting duplicate answers even if mine might be a better one, unless it is exceptionally better. — Dalija Prasnikar 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by UndoneStudios
Wait a minute... SO's mods are not the same as meta's? — UndoneStudios 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
Great answers. Can I copy them? What license are they under? — Trilarion 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@JiříBaum So a user just dumps, say, 10 low quality answers on SE every day... Rate limits don't solve this problem. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
Meta Stack Overflow is a child site of Stack Overflow, so MSO mods are mods on Stack Overflow main as well. However, that isn't what the network is. The network is all the other sites in the network (all 170-something), such as Code Review and code golf, which doesn't have the same moderators as Stack Overflow. — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
"unmodified answers from chatgpt should be banned" But how does one detect if the output from chatgpt was taken unmodified or not? — Trilarion 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
The problem is network wide, but even a SO solution already helps. It's a matter of speed. The SO mods are simply the fastest in acting here (probably because the problem first occurred here too). — Trilarion 1 min ago
 

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