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12:03 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by rand'Chris
I searched before asking my question. There are dozens of discussions about "review audits" like the one you linked to, and I have no idea why that is the case. My questions is absolutely and unequivocally not talking about anything like that. Thanks. — rand'Chris 22 secs ago
 
12:57 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by M--
You basically formalized what I had in mind, but more eloquently. Thank you. — M-- 38 secs ago
 
1:33 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Spectric
@Cerbrus he's already served his punishment; no one is making him post this apology, so I see this as a complete win. — Spectric 7 secs ago
 
 
2 hours later…
3:19 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by chivracq
You wouldn't (have) qualify/ied btw @OP, nor in Novb 2022 nor May 2024 (when I post this Comment), 47/61 < 90%. I like your Prop Ryan_Mod, maybe a bit tuned: Absolute Rep >1000. + 50 Edits in the last 2y with 90% 'Approved'. => Can do Edits directly without going through the 'Sugg-Edits' Queue. But keep 2000 for having access to the Queue. // I know for myself I can do "correct Edits" (40 Edits in 9y, all 'Approved', except 1 on a 'Tag-Wiki'), and I only do Edits for Threads "I care for" (Quality-sake or "my Tag"), but I'm not sure I would be able to "judge" in the 'Sugg-Edits' Queue. — chivracq just now
 
3:37 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by kesarling He-Him
PS: The question still hasn't been taken down. — kesarling He-Him 8 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by chivracq
Paradoxally, I think somebody who made 100 or 200 Edits and "regularly" got some 'Rejected' ones in the beginning and then improve(d) their "Quality" might be better at judging what are the Criteria for "good Edits" because they self got those 'Rejected' (and understood why their Edits were 'Rejected' then...). — chivracq 9 secs ago
 
3:52 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by cocomac
The linked question has now been deleted. — cocomac 30 secs ago
 
4:29 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Dan Schwartz
You claimed I was rude, but your link was to someone else's post, not mine. — Dan Schwartz 37 secs ago
 
 
1 hour later…
5:30 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by chivracq
Qt Dv'ed for "elliptic"/vague Title, a bit "click-bait", I didn't really understand what it was about, SO-Question Link to follow => Page not found, not much advanced... // I only understood "the whole picture" from @cocomac's Answer... => care to give a bit more descriptive/explicit Title...? => Stg like "Why didn't the SmokeDetector Anti-Spam Bot spot this obvious Spam-Question?", or stg similar... — chivracq 22 secs ago
 
5:53 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
I don't believe the 100 reputation loss is related to posting AI generated content, your post probably got marked as spam or rude / abusive which involves a 100 rep penalty to the author. — Abdul Aziz Barkat 59 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Ryan M
The issue with that answer was not that it was AI-generated; the issue was that it was a non-answer scolding the user for lack of problem-solving effort. This was considered an abusive answer, and was deleted as such. This was explained to you in the mod message you received (link will only work for you), which mentions ChatGPT in passing (two sentences out of a four-paragraph message). — Ryan M ♦ 7 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Fe2O3
@AbdulAzizBarkat Au contraire My A expressed the site's "AI ban" policy couched in a very polite refusal to comment on the code. I accept that it was frivolous, but it was in no way "spam or rude." The email admonishing me for the action (not retained) was, likewise, polite in its explanation of why those 100 points were deducted. No rudeness on anyone's part. — Fe2O3 14 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
Looking at the deleted answer linked by Ryan M above it is very much marked as spam or rude or abusive which explains the reputation penalty. Whether you consider that answer rude or not is your opinion, enough users (I believe its 4) and / or a moderator thought your answer was rude and hence it was marked as such. — Abdul Aziz Barkat 32 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by chivracq
I don't understand what "I posted ~x posts [...], including ~1100 bounties." means, what does "Posting a Bounty" mean...? => Did you put a Bounty (on a Qt that wasn't yours), or did you you post an Answer on a Qt that had a Bounty...? — chivracq 40 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by pierpy
You're proving once again that you're a great person. Thank you for this, thank you for all your pre-AI contributions (from which I have learned so much!) — pierpy 14 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
@user4581301 What's surprising is that many embedded systems programmers did very likely give up on the survey and yet they were made up a significant part of the survey participants last time. — Lundin 11 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
@Fe2O3 Point is, it was a non-answer. What you said is something that seems to be only suited for comments. As an answer, there is no doubt that it would be considered spam, which, as Abdul Aziz explained, caused the penalty. — Syed M. Sannan 51 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
@chivracq they mean "post an answer on a question that had a bounty". — Abdul Aziz Barkat 24 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by chivracq
OK, thanks @AbdulAzizBarkat, then "they" (=OP) should update the Qt (or sbd who can edit), because "Posting a Bounty" doesn't mean anything... (And I refused to read any further...) — chivracq 32 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@Spectric I've seen users get suspended for posting AI-generated content... Having his answers deleted isn't "punishment". That's just standard cleanup. I mean, I really don't get comments like "You're proving once again that you're a great person." How does this make him a great person? He abused the site on a significant scale, got caught, and is now posting an apology after the fact... That's damage control. A "great person" wouldn't have flaunted the rules. — Cerbrus 8 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Your answer there wasn't an answer. It was a thinly veiled excuse to lecture OP. While I agree with the gist of this answer, regarding this case, using an R/A-deleted answer to prove your point isn't doing you any favors. — Cerbrus 35 secs ago
 
6:46 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by chivracq
1/2 @Cerbrus, VonC is a "super-SME" in their Area of Expertise, with >1M-Rep... I could do it mine, takes me usually 3h-5h to write an Answer (on 'SO' or the Company Tech Forum for the small Tag I answer), I usually WRITE a complete Script from the top of my head, normally test it, but not always (when I'm pretty sure, ah-ah..!), can't use Templates, it's always super-custom, I'm pretty sure some 'Copilot' or any AI-kabouter could do 80% of the job, I would just need to look/verify that it works... (I compile all Code in my head for that Prog-Lang, reason I'm "so Advanced"...)... [cont] — chivracq 45 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Fe2O3
@Cerbrus If you steal $100, you go to prison. If you steal $100 million, you're offered a seat on the Board of Directors. Reality... — Fe2O3 14 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Awalias
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by chivracq
2/2 ... so for VonC, I guess it's the same, and that they were able to validate self all the Answers they posted with help of AI or not... In "my" Prog-Lang, I need less than 10 sec to scan a 100 Line Script to decide for sure if it's been AI-generated, (I concede I got quite surprised the few-few first times), or some part(s) copied "from somewhere" (but have nothing to do with the Func mentioned in the Title)... And thus using some AI-Prog-Stg would probably often save me a 1h writing a complete Script from scratch by myself... (Still to test of course, if I have any doubt...) — chivracq 36 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Karl Knechtel
It's good that you're thinking about this, but I doubt you'll get a definitive answer. — Karl Knechtel 51 secs ago
 
7:22 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@chivracq What are you trying to say? That's a lot of text about you... Are you suggesting we should treat users differently depending on how much rep they have? On how productive they are, answering? I'm not questioning how helpful he's been in the past, but that in no way excuses any of this. If anything, with over 1m rep, he should be held to the highest standards, because of their high rep... — Cerbrus 20 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Camdan Mead
Honestly this is a very elegant answer, I appreciate it. I'm curious if anyone else will come along and share their two cents or particularly personal experience, but I have to agree here. — Camdan Mead 30 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by chivracq
@Cerbrus, I was trying to say that when you are a complete SME, some AI-Helping-writing-Code can do it quicker than you and you only need to read the Code/Script to validate it, usually need to edit 20%, but it might depend on the Prog-Lang... 'Chat-GPT' is just too funny in "my" Prog-Lang, but 80% is still correct... // And yep indeed, agreed with about 1M-Rep and "highest standards"... // [I still haven't read any further than the very first line of the Qt btw with "posting Bounties" which doesn't mean anything, waiting for an Edit to read further and the Answers...] — chivracq 7 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
That's 30 bounties, of 500 each. Question is, what questions would be best fit for those bounties. I'd suggest let VonC choose himself. — Shadow Wizard Love Zelda 22 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Are you suggesting he launders his ill-gotten rep, @ShadowWizardLoveZelda? xD — Cerbrus 26 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by lfurini
"between March 2023 and April 2024", so the time interval is more than a year, not a couple of months. — lfurini 20 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@chivracq please just read the rest of the question if you're intent on weighing in. It's very unproductive to ramble on about ChatGPT if you haven't even read this OP, not to mention the answers. — Cerbrus 14 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Oooh, I thought it was 2024-2024. I misread that. Will update my answer. — Cerbrus 12 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by blackgreen
The only apparent "punishment" has been the deletion of the answers. — You aptly use the word "apparent" here to make it look like you aren't making assumptions, but then you immediately go on making the assumption that the user's rep played a role somewhere. — blackgreen ♦ 27 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@blackgreen I'd hope that that's not the only only conclusion you're drawing from this answer. — Cerbrus 14 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by blackgreen
It's the only one worth commenting over — blackgreen ♦ 22 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
If someone committed a real crime and serviced their sentence, then I believe everyone deserves a second chance to get on with their lives. But this is can't be compared with an actual crime, it's just someone blatantly breaking an Internet site rules in order to gain imaginary internet points. And besides, they have permanently lost all domain expert credibility now, so it's not like they can continue using the site meaningfully, at least not under that account. A lot of people get banned for like 1 year for CoC violations (and perhaps rightly so), so it does smell like double standards. — Lundin 23 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by gparyani
The reputation can be deducted again by deleting the answers with the dedicated "plagiarism" flag or by dissociating the author from the posts. — gparyani 53 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@Lundin as if his rep doesn't overshadow his "domain credibility" when answering ;-) — Cerbrus 21 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@blackgreen Your own answer suggests that he did get special treatment, in the form of a lot of people weighing in on the situation, (maybe even CMs?). That's not the same treatment a newly registered user gets after submitting a couple of LLM answers. Again, I'm writing from what I can see here. And it doesn't look great. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by blackgreen
I said "multiple people", which really only means "more than one", and having more than one moderator looking into any issue which isn't absolutely clear-cut is nothing but standard procedure. It seems you are trying hard to imply that this user got special treatment because of his tenure on the site, when in my opinion, as a person informed of the facts, he most definitely didn't. — blackgreen ♦ 45 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by jps
@KevinB same here. In the beginning, I clicked on every discussion, sometimes gave responses with hints to the OP to better post a question, and flagged a lot. On some days 100% of the posts, (divided into spam, not a discussion, drawing attention to own questions, and troll posts). Signal-to-noise ratio1:20 at best, probably worse. But now I gave up, just occasionally flag spam when I see it. — jps 1 min ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
The main issue I have here is that disciplinary actions/punishments seem so arbitrary on this network. There doesn't seem to be any relation between the severity of the offense and the disciplinary actions, except for those who are repeatedly breaking rules. I often come across "1 rep" users and then you peek at their account and notice they've been suspended for 6 months to a year. I have of course no idea what offense that such users committed, but mass posting thousands of answers in blatant violation of the site rules seems pretty serious to me. — Lundin 7 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
What do you need to do to get 1 year suspension then, I wonder? Must be something incredibly serious. — Lundin 29 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Then why be vague about it? The way you've written that answer almost looks as if a task force was set up to handle that situation. I mean, read this: "multiple people spent a great deal of time <cut (char limit)> while being fair at the same time." That comes across as a lot of effort that went into this. Again, I'm going by what I can see here and what's communicated here. What "us ordinary users can see" is that he got his >1000 answers deleted and a slap on the wrist, whilst he's being praised for "apologizing". — Cerbrus 31 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
I believe the standard punishment for posting one answer with AI content is something like one week suspension, yeah? — Lundin just now
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
He even retained a bucketload of rep from those older deleted answers. So he got to keep much of his dirty money. — Cerbrus 23 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by blackgreen
@Cerbrus Why be vague about it? Because the details of what happened is none of your business. Moderators don't comment about if and what moderation actions are taken against any user, in order to preserve their privacy. Therefore any consideration you make solely based on information that is public is doomed to be deficient and uninformed. — blackgreen ♦ 24 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by blackgreen
@Lundin usually there is no reason to deviate from the standard suspension progression. suspensions are really just a means to keep disruptive users off the site when there is evidence that they aren't going to reform (a typical example are cases of reiterated misbehavior). Moderators may occasionally impose suspensions with the primary intent of delivering a stronger message, however that's rather rare. Some of you folks seem to think that suspensions are meant as a punishment. They are not. — blackgreen ♦ 9 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
And you can't blame me for trying to puzzle together the pieces @blackgreen. "Why be vague about it" was directed to OP as much as it was to you. If he was suspended, why not just state so in the OP? (I still don't know if he was or not). "Suspensions are not a punishment"... Wat. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
What's really bothering me, though, is that he's just being praised here. He abused the system on a massive scale. He got caught. His answers got deleted, but he retained a lot of rep. He wrote a political apology. There's nothing to praise here. His past activity and helpfulness are undisputable, but they're not relevant. — Cerbrus 47 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
From what I understand the suspensions follow an increasing period of time, 1 day, 7 day, month and then more. And generally the purpose of the suspensions are geared more towards rectifying user behaviour rather than actually punishing the user. So punishment for other users would probably also have been similar as long as they reflected on their rule breaking. — Abdul Aziz Barkat 15 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
@blackgreen So what you are saying is that it's ok to break the site rules for as long as you are getting away with it and as long as you eventually stop doing so. As in, if someone did break a lot of the rules in the past and nobody found out, and they aren't breaking rules any longer, then that's fine and acceptable behavior. — Lundin 23 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by blackgreen
@Cerbrus You aren't just piecing together the pieces of the puzzle — which, as I said, is simply wasted time because you can't, by design, obtain all the pieces unless someone breaks confidentiality. You are also making assumptions stemming from your incomplete puzzle. I'm cautioning you against making those assumptions. — blackgreen ♦ 39 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by blackgreen
@Lundin what I'm saying is exactly what I wrote, no more and no less. careful in putting words in my mouth. — blackgreen ♦ 25 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
So, us "normal users" might as well not contribute here, because we can't know all the pieces... Come on. Please don't be so negative, @blackgreen. Try to understand our perspective. — Cerbrus 39 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Gimby
A pile of very handsome questions, but a lot of that has been covered ad nauseum. Add one more question to your pile: how much effort are you supposed to do to know all these things before committing your first questions? Answer: you have more reading to do I'm afraid. Existing meta posts are probably more informative than the help center, especially the faq. — Gimby 30 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
To add some context (or a "missing piece") they were suspended for a week, there were 3 MSO posts and 1 MSE post that skirted around this suspension (Discussing a specific deleted answer and one directly asking about the suspension reason). — Abdul Aziz Barkat 5 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by pierpy
@Cerbrus, initially I thought it was a voluntary admission. This is the reason for "You're proving once again that you're a great person." :-) — pierpy 38 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
@blackgreen I really don't see how to read it in any other way. If suspensions aren't punishment, then it means we get away with anything, as long as we stop doing it. What if a user is committing an actual crime by posting here then? Plagiarism, hate propaganda etc. And they get caught, they are punished by the legal system IRL, and they stop posting such content. But the only action SO should do then is to delete the offensive content, because suspensions aren't punishment? — Lundin 49 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
@AbdulAzizBarkat Yeah so clearly, posting any amount of AI content gives you one week of suspension are there is no severity grading here, the suspensions do not "stack". Either that or there are double standards. I'm certain that the moderator team can verify that no single user until now has ever been suspended for longer than 1 week for posting AI content. — Lundin 14 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@Lundin There are no double standards. You get longer suspension if you repeat the bad behavior. If someone has been suspended for more than a week for posting AI content, that means they ignored the message and suspension and continued with posting AI. — Dalija Prasnikar ♦ 17 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Gimby
Also true, but I wouldn't be surprised if the edit gets shot down in review anyway. Some people see the rules as guidelines which allow for exceptions, and others see only cookie cutter rules and will only see an edit which invalidates existing answers. — Gimby 51 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
@DalijaPrasnikar And so the only possible conclusion is: it's ok to break the site rules, just don't get caught. — Lundin 17 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by l4mpi
Please, please, effing please with a cherry on top, stop caring about highscores. Even if you apply a x2 multiplyer and subtract 30k rep immediately, it would probably still display as 1.3m rep due to rounding, and rep has no practical effects after 5 digits anyways. I can understand if you think there should be more repercussions/punishment, but a very minor rep adjustment that's literally a rounding error is neither of those. — l4mpi 45 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Gimby
Can I make a really bold guess here. You signed up pretty much since the beginning when the site was still very different and more lax than what it is today. Were you perhaps using the site in a personal bubble and paying as little attention to all the outside noise as possible - which would lead you to completely miss out on all the AI hubbub that has been really impossible to miss otherwise? If so - I get it. I still pretend that it's the 90's from time to time, really good times. But there are limits. — Gimby 24 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
The practical consequences of this is that this is a huge encouragement to all users who like to "gamify" the system, to mass spam plagiarism and AI generated content all over the site. Everyone is allowed to do that once, at any scale, until they get caught. If you are a new user with no rep, you have nothing to lose but everything to gain from that. And surely the new users won't get treated any harsher since there are no double standards. — Lundin 58 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by super-starball-ultra
@l4mpi I disagree. "I can keep the fruits of breaking the rules- fruit which I was intentionally seeking" is not a good moral to the story here. VonC shouldn't be given special treatment because they have a lot of rep. — super-starball-ultra 37 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by PhobosFerro
@l4mpi "Stop caring about highscores" Considering ~60% of those answers are on bountied questions, it does seem like rep was a major factor and should therefore be removed. — PhobosFerro 59 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
@l4mpi I mean if you think the rep adjustment is minor then it shouldn't really be a problem to forego it right? Reputation is probably one of the motivators behind this and removing that seems fair. In fact if they were to voluntarily do that or ask for it to be removed it would show more reflection than just an apology. — Abdul Aziz Barkat 48 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@super-starball-ultra as I said, I can understand if you say you want some sort of repercussion. But a rep adjustment of that scale is literally nothing. If you were proposing to reset his reputation back to 15k, I would like that proposal more than subtracting 15k. — l4mpi 8 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Gimby
"This is incredibly frustrating" - that's something you need to work on though. It should be a minor annoyance at best. Comments disappear all the time on this site, for any number of reasons. Including bugs. — Gimby 54 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@Lundin Where did I say that it is OK to break site rules? New users like old users have a lot to lose if they break them. New users can easily hit answer ban when their AI answers are deleted, and old users get a stain on their reputation (I don't mean virtual Internet points) they cannot easily remove. — Dalija Prasnikar ♦ 17 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Lundin
@DalijaPrasnikar That is the consequence, since the suspension for posting 1850 AI generated posts is the same as the suspension for posting 1 AI generated post. The only difference is that some user who posted 1 such post and then stop was caught early on. Whereas in the 1850 posts case, they kept breaking the rules over and over and over, despite the featured meta post which has been sitting on the main site for over a year. They were just not caught by a moderator. There are apparently no punishments handed out retroactively. — Lundin 18 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by NoDataDumpNoContribution
"Is this actually true?" Statistically speaking there might be large uncertainties with the given comparably low number of discussions created. However, I think it's true. High rep users also rarely ask questions. They already know all the answers. So why should they start discussions. — NoDataDumpNoContribution 47 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by PhobosFerro
@DalijaPrasnikar It also wouldn't take 13 months and 1850 posts before a new (or low rep) user got suspended, surely. Without knowing how the moderation team works, I assume it also wouldn't take "multiple people spending a great deal of time" before punishing said user. — PhobosFerro 13 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by super-starball-ultra
@l4mpi a reset like that would be totally unfair and unjustified. I'm not looking for punishment. I'm looking for a fair result. — super-starball-ultra 49 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@PhobosFerro there are still plenty of users who posted AI and some are still posting it that have been caught a long time ago, but still haven't been handled since the last year's moderators strike. But they will be handled eventually, and their AI posts will be removed. So they may think all is good because they are going on for months with nothing happening, when actually that is very far from the truth. — Dalija Prasnikar ♦ 57 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Mark Amery
@ErikA "I don't see anyone thinking "I want the exact list of loops supported in Python"" - on the contrary, is a very normal thing to think! If I start writing in a new language, one of the first things I want is an overview of its control flow constructs. It'd be a bad question to ask about Python, but only because a glance at the tutorial will answer it. But there might be languages - I'm thinking about the ugly field of borderline-undocumented scripting languages built into applications - for which just "how do I write a loop" would truly be a good question, of great value to others. — Mark Amery 17 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Gimby
Sounds more like the usual unwillingness to hit the skip button when in doubt to be honest. Regardless, it is counterproductive to try and reduce frustration. It shouldn't exist to begin with. Frustration is a very important signal - that you need to stop reviewing. Immediately. Hiding that signal away behind measures which seem very fragile to me is only temporarily delaying a symptom. — Gimby 37 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Mark Amery
It seems to me though that these sort of questions that would normally be answered in your first half hour of skimming a language's tutorial or other introductory docs are probably only something we should welcome for languages where docs don't exist. What's a little frustrating to me is that it's unclear to me from the original question here to what extent Magik is in that state. From googling, I think maybe the only documentation the language has online is on the Wiki for some GIS that happens to use Magik, and there's simply no official Magik documentation to speak of at all? Not sure! — Mark Amery 30 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Erik A
@Mark But "How do I write a for loop" is an entirely different question from "which loops are supported", and in fact one I use as an example. Similarly, questions about while loops and loops iterating over objects might be sensible. With 5 years of R experience, I can list at least 10 looping constructs, but I'm entirely sure I don't know all kinds of loops that are supported when including packages, so I would consider "which loops are supported" a strange question, and very different from "how do I loop X times/over X/recursively/parallelly/etc" — Erik A just now
 
9:52 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by PM 2Ring
Fair point. But a good edit summary comment may offset that. And the OP can also post a brief comment on the answer apologising for the misunderstanding (although reviewers probably won't see that). — PM 2Ring just now
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
3a: I'm not sure what he can do (himself). He can't strip his gained reputation from his account... All he can do is just not do it again, and I hope he holds to that promise. — Cerbrus 44 secs ago
 
10:14 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@super-starball-ultra "fair" is hard to even define in this context and impossible to execute. IMO a fair result would try to achieve an identical outcome to a parallel universe where the offending posts never happened. That would include removing the ill-gotten 15k, but it's the least important part - e.g. way less important than compensating users below 25k who were prevented from gaining rep and thus privileges (e.g. users who would have answered a question but didn't because VonC already answered), or than compensating people dealing with the fallout for their wasted time. — l4mpi 54 secs ago
 
10:26 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Talha Tayyab
@Cerbrus I 100% agree with you. OP was a role model and breaking rules for a period of more than a year is just not acceptable. Their apology is appreciated but, posting 1000+ banned posts I cannot comprehend. — Talha Tayyab 8 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
@Cerbrus "I still don't know if he was or not" he was, I saw the suspension banner of 1 week. I even asked a question here on Meta regarding it (now deleted), that you can view in my profile if you have 10K+ rep. — Syed M. Sannan 39 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by cigien
Given >1k AI generated posts over a 1 year period, I would think this is a slam-dunk decision for any handling mod. Especially since you've stressed in comments on Cerbrus' answer that the user's rep/tenure had nothing to do with the decision (which certainly would be a factor that would complicate matters), I'm quite curious what are the other factors that could have made this decision hard? — cigien 27 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by cigien
From what I gather, the user was a) given a 1 week suspension (as a comment on another answer claims), and b) had all their answers in the last year deleted. If that's the decision referred to in your answer, I'm quite confused as to why it as a "hard" decision to make (or why it required multiple people to be involved). — cigien 33 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Zoe
FWIW, the rep tab says -70878. You're around 9000 rep off, but I'm not sure why — Zoe ♦ 38 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
@Cerbrus Or just positively contribute to the site like he was doing before the AIGC posting. — Syed M. Sannan 17 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Tinkeringbell
I doubt it's cultural, seems like a perfectly normal interpretation to me (and there's some research to back that up as well: "An apology does not help at all after clearly intentionally committed offenses.". — Tinkeringbell 30 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@SyedM.Sannan other users can not see your deleted questions from your profile. — Cerbrus 18 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
@Cerbrus Does a link work? meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/430004/… I am fairly certain 10K+ rep users can view deleted posts, maybe not from the profile directly. — Syed M. Sannan 6 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Talha Tayyab
What if the OP was not caught? For how long would he keep posting AI content? — Talha Tayyab 24 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
@Cerbrus I think I got the count of MSO questions wrong in my previous comment, there were 2 MSO questions. You can find the link to all related MSO and MSE questions on this oneAbdul Aziz Barkat 44 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
@cigien not all of the answers in the last year were deleted, the multiple people being involved and the hard decision is probably about reviewing all of their answers in that particular time span to check what needs to be deleted. — Abdul Aziz Barkat 25 secs ago
 
11:16 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Mark
What's wrong in this question? — Mark 20 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Marijn
I'm not sure how it works in Windows but in Linux it's very easy to temporarily set the system language to English and get the correct phrasing of the error message. Otherwise searching for a couple of different translations in a search engine like Google (here maybe something related to end-of-file?) can give you some clues (and maybe even answer the question you were about to ask). — Marijn 30 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by BDL
The question asks why a language design team has made a decision. Unless a member of that team drops by and tells why, it is pretty unlikely to get anything else than speculations. See also Is asking "why" on language specifications still considered as "primarily opinion-based" if it can have official answers?BDL 36 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Islam Hassan
@BDL Thanks for the link. I benefited especially from Eric Lippert's answer there and have accepted to close this question as a duplicate of that one. — Islam Hassan 16 secs ago
 
11:59 AM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Dominique
What a lack of commitment here. A person admits doing something wrong and apologises, I give him the opportunity to do more than just that and immediately I get more than ten downvotes. Guys, I've just done a constructive proposal. Is this the way you handle this??? — Dominique 44 secs ago
 
12:10 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Gimby
Historically it HAS happened that an actual language designer answered such a question. If there is one place where it can happen, it's on Stack Overflow. It is still not a very useful question, it is merely a bit of trivia. — Gimby 7 secs ago
 
12:22 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Sinatr
@GertArnold, disscussions are plagiarised forums from e.g. GitHub or reddit. There they are mandatory instrument, here it's just another option to .. talk. If I have a question, I'd ask a question on StackOverflow. It's winning form of Q&A, why man need something else I yet to understand. — Sinatr 10 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Gimby
It is a sample set of one, by the way. It becomes valid to say things like "is there something off with the spam bot" if you have a dozen cases. We're not living in the 22nd century just yet where I assume technology will not be actually held together by complicated scripts that have to be monitored by human beings. — Gimby 52 secs ago
 
12:42 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
Your proposal is no different from what is expected of every individual that contributes to StackOverflow, positive contribution. However, this expectation is in no way binding and lack of meeting it has no consequences for anyone. The same applies here. We cannot set a list of things for VonC to do for the sake of amendment as it is not within our rights to do so. StackOverflow is an open community where everyone can contribute whenever they like to whatever extent they want in a non-binding manner. — Syed M. Sannan 20 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
So in short: Your answer adds nothing new as it is written currently. — Syed M. Sannan 45 secs ago
 
12:57 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Islam Hassan
@Gimby I find the rationale behind language design decisions to be very useful and interesting. I would agree though that it may be not a good fit for SO. — Islam Hassan 9 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Tensibai
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Makyen
In other words, prior to you posting here, we were already aware of the situation that not all the reputation from the posts had been removed. We already had both a proposal/request to the company and a known-working backup plan. The company has been supportive, but, at this point, it's likely we'll go with the backup plan. If we go with the backup plan, then I expect a moderator will write some code to make the process easier, which is also already planned. So, basically, you seem to be upset about something that's already planed to happen, but just hasn't been accomplished yet. — Makyen ♦ 46 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Makyen
We are already aware of the fact that reputation was retained on approximately 200 posts. We became aware of it about a day after the deletions were made. The time from then was spent waiting to see if the company had a way to easily remove the reputation, but, so far, that hasn't panned out. Moderators do have a way to remove the reputation, which is, as described above, to delete the posts as plagiarism (a multi-step process). We were, not surprisingly, already aware of that method. It is, and has been, our fallback solution, should the company not have/provide something more appropriate. — Makyen ♦ 55 secs ago
 
1:20 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
@Makyen any plans to refund bounties at least ones which were awarded early? Looking at their earned bounties there seem to be 600+ answers that had bounties which are now deleted. There are probably some of these bounties which were awarded early on in the bounty period. — Abdul Aziz Barkat 9 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by pigrammer
I feel that in particular the exclusionof MyPy is a big mistake, seeing how it's so popular; also Black and Flake8. — pigrammer 39 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by pigrammer
This is really not at all related to software development, which is what the survey is about. — pigrammer 40 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Makyen
@AbdulAzizBarkat As far as I'm aware, that issue has not been looked at, nor has it been looked at in at least the vast majority of other cases where a bountied answer by other users has been removed (e.g., for plagiarism, AI-generated content, etc.). — Makyen ♦ 5 secs ago
 
1:37 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Mark Amery
Huh. This post is a bit odd. The tone feels rather like the compelled apology of a scandal-wracked celebrity, but that's a minor point; the bigger one is that you don't address why you did this in the first place. As @TylerH asks, what was the motive? Was it for rep, to play with a new toy, or to help people at larger scale? Do you actually think you were helping people (and that, regardless of the rules, it's a loss to the site that you got busted and the answers nuked)? What can the rest of us learn from this odd saga? You don't say, which leaves me unsure what purpose this post serves. — Mark Amery 35 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by TylerH
"Do more experienced users prefer to not use discussions?" Yes. — TylerH just now
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by TylerH
@l4mpi "Please, please, effing please with a cherry on top, stop caring about highscores." Given the behavior being discussed in this thread, your request should probably be levied at VonC, not starball. — TylerH 19 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Dominique
@SyedM.Sannan: who says I'm only allowing him to perform actions on the public part of the website? Let's face it: the longer people contribute to this website, the more they get access. This person has a reputation of +1 million (!!!), so why not giving him access to the non-public part of the website and have him do some actions over there? Seen his remorse he might be very eager to do so and as a plus, he gets access to the hidden "secret chambers" of the StackOverflow community. — Dominique 8 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by TylerH
@CamdanMead And, to be clear, in this case, the original version was not sensible--you were asking how to do something your own code showed you knew how to do. That should not have been answered in the first place, so it was not necessarily you who did something wrong, but the answerer not carefully reading your question. — TylerH 18 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by ChrisB
Less incentive (rep) to provide high quality content -> less high quality content. If I have a choice, why would I go there? — ChrisB 54 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Mark Amery
Hmm - your query that purportedly calculates "rep retained from accept,up,down votes" includes the clause AND Q.AcceptedAnswerId = P.Id when selecting posts; isn't that excluding posts like stackoverflow.com/a/76266042/1709587 that are not accepted? Also, why do you have clauses excluding stuff tagged as Git-related? — Mark Amery 5 secs ago
 
2:08 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Gimby
If there were engaging and useful discussions, sure. But as said - because they crammed it into Stack Overflow, it has become more of a dumping site for "not Q&A stuff". Looking at discussions is just as tiring as looking at a feed of new questions. — Gimby 7 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Erik A
There are some features that really depend on that specific language though. From an R perspective, there's the ggplotly function which I use often, and which recreates a plot created using the ggplot2 package using plotly. Other language bindings don't offer similar functionality (perhaps mainly because ggplot is specific to R, even though there is a python package which replicates most of its functionality). — Erik A 38 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
@Dominique There are no secret chambers... unless you are talking about becoming a diamond moderator. And for that, there are only two ways: They get hired by StackOverflow as staff and in turn also get the diamond, or by getting elected. No one can just "give" them access like that. Also, that sounds more like rewarding behavior for bad action, so not a good idea imho. — Syed M. Sannan 15 secs ago
 
2:33 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Kevin B
eh, i don't see a problem with the original bounty posters not receiving a refund, the bounty still would have attracted traffic that all bounties do. The answer isn't what the bounty is paying for. — Kevin B 57 secs ago
 
2:43 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by rand&#39;Chris
@Gimby ''This site doesn't care about your time, deal with it'' is an interesting response. It seems somewhat antithetical to the How to Ask a Good Question suggestion to "Pretend you're talking to a busy colleague and have to sum up your entire question in one sentence: ..." Rules for thee but not for me? — rand'Chris 46 secs ago
 
3:00 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
@KevinB me neither, but I was considering the bounties that were awarded early for example this one was only up for 2 days out of the possible 7 so they lost out on their bounty period which they otherwise wouldn't have if VonC hadn't posted that answer. — Abdul Aziz Barkat 9 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Islam Hassan
@MarkAmery For the Git exclusion, I think starball just assumed that VonC didn't use AI to generate answers to Git questions since he is one of the most significant experts on it on SO. Starball just assumed that the third that was deleted but wasn't AI generated is predominantly Git related answers. — Islam Hassan 50 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by TylerH
There are fewer than 50 questions in this tag, so it qualifies for the expedited burnination process. As a 20k user, I agree it should be burninated, as questions should be about the thing they're trying to do, not about "connect four". E.g. "how do I write a function that checks for certain win conditions" has nothing to do with Connect Four itself; the criteria just happen to match the win conditions for a game of connect four. Having a 'connect four' tag is of no value here, in my opinion. — TylerH 10 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@TylerH my request to VonC would not be that polite. But the request was directed towards anyone who cares about his rep number being different than it was before the fraud, even though it has literally no effect. IMO that's a waste of time and any energy directed towards that would be better spent on anything else, e.g. discussing if they should suffer any actual consequences besides the short suspension. But wasting more CM or Mod time on a BS number that does literally nothing seems worse than useless. — l4mpi 42 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by TylerH
@l4mpi It is not BS, it is applying the rules equally every time. If you don't apply them here, then you lose the argument about applying them when a 100 rep user illegally gains 15,000 reputation too, and all other cases. Just because this case is of someone where the rep doesn't make a difference in terms of what they can do doesn't make a difference in terms of whether the rep should be removed. Otherwise a short suspension and a small rep tax is just "the cost of doing business" for rep fraud. — TylerH 38 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by l4mpi
I'll add to that that cleanup of other related rep issues, e.g. refunding bounties for users whose rep does not have 7 digits and who may have lost privileges due to posting a bounty, seems vastly more important as well. And if that process also includes removing the rep from VonC, great, but if lots of time and/or effort would need to be invested just to lower his rep by 15k then I don't see the point. — l4mpi 44 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by zcoop98
I'm pretty confused at the apparent pushback you've received to this request; no, your comments shouldn't be disappearing, that's not supposed to happen. Comments are ephemeral, yes, but being frustrated to discover your attempts to help post authors have been thrown into the void seems completely justified (I'd be frustrated at that too!). This is clearly a bug, and as TylerH mentioned above, there are loads of other issues plaguing the queues right now (...more than usual), so this is probably related to that. — zcoop98 10 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@TylerH disagree entirely. A new user that gains that amount of rep also gains lots of privileges, which is the important part; and that should be resolved. The number itself does not matter in any other context, except for stroking one's ego. I'll add that a 100 repo user who gains 15k due to fraud should just be nuked IMO (and I wouldn't be too averse to applying the same rule here). — l4mpi 58 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by TylerH
@l4mpi You are missing the point, which is that the rules need to be equal for all users. This isn't animal farm where high-rep users are "more equal" than low-rep users. And the rules being equal mean you remove all the fraudulent reputation, even if it doesn't impact the privileges the user has access to. That's called integrity, consistency, justice. etc. — TylerH 20 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Joshua
On the contrary, an apology is rarely worse for explaining why; even if everybody knows the reason is no good. — Joshua 37 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by rand&#39;Chris
Thanks @zcoop98. I almost wish SO had a <3 flag. I've read the profiles of the people posting in this thread. The solar system appears to have orbited into a part of the galaxy dense with irony, projection, and sock puppets; an unfortunate reality these days. But after 30+ years on the internet I've had my inoculations. I just never expected it on meta.so. — rand'Chris 55 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@TylerH and you are completely missing my point, which is that removing this rep is nothing but window dressing in this case. The "more equal" stuff is IMO a fallacy; it's exactly because VonC is a high-rep user that a removal of 15k would do literally nothing but waste mod/CM time. Imagine if laws said there's a $1mil fine for assault but no jail time - that wouldn't have anything to do with "justice" even if you applied it to billionares and beggars equally. Want to talk about actual consequences for this behaviour? Fine, but removing a tiny fraction of rep is not it. — l4mpi 15 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by l4mpi
But anyways, I think I made my point clear, and as I said IMO it's a waste of time so that's it on this topic from me. — l4mpi 38 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Kevin B
@l4mpi Sounds to me like you're instead expecting a different punishment, such as a longer suspension, due to the user having more rep than the avg AI abuser. Removal of rep gained and a 1 week suspension is fairly standard, and is applied to all users who abuse AI in this way. Why should the punishment be different in this case? — Kevin B 48 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by MisterMiyagi
The formally correct way is probably to close the question, remove the answer, edit and then reopen. Now if anyone wants to goes those three extra miles... — MisterMiyagi 15 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Kevin B
It's not like we're letting high rep users spend a miniscule amount of rep to avoid suspensions, — Kevin B 54 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@KevinB you're also missing my point, which I'm not going to re-state, but personally I'm mostly concerned about the impacts on everything else (e.g. mod timewaste) and don't care much what happens to VonC. But to answer your concrete question, the magnitude of the offense (>1200 answers) and the fact that the offender knew this was against the rules should absolutely be a factor in the severity of the repercussions - just as someone who downloads two or three movies for personal use should not be treated the same way as someone who downloads the whole catalogue with commercial intent. — l4mpi 8 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by camden_kid
You haven't explained why you did it. — camden_kid 55 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Clive
How people are upvoting this is beyond me. Can so many people really be so easily fooled by this transparent “apology”? My hope for humanity just took yet another hit. — Clive 23 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Clive
Wow the mods are really doubling down on this one, dissenting comments removed within seconds. Wonder why… :D — Clive just now
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Clive
Wow the mods are really doubling down on this one, dissenting comments removed within seconds. Wonder why… :D — Clive 1 min ago
 
4:20 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Not to mention the bounties awarded to those answers that are now lost. Will the users stat started those bounties get refunded? — Cerbrus 49 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Zoe
@Cerbrus A lot of bounties have been lost on AI answers in general, though that's across many, many users. We don't refund those, and I doubt we're going to start now, just because it's difficult to do. Plus, bounties going to waste is an assumed risk, which is part of why bounties are non-refundable. — Zoe ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@Zoe I get what you're saying, but this is a case of a user deliberately hunting bounties with AI... Oh, wait. That's far from unique. Well RIP that bounty rep. — Cerbrus 46 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Fiddle Freak
@DanSchwartz I claimed you were rude? When? And what link? Did you post in the wrong comment section or something? I legitimately have no idea what you are talking about... — Fiddle Freak 31 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Drew Reese
I don't know what there is to discuss here really, but I totally agree with the sentiment. I don't know what users typically get for posting AI-generated content, but besides rep lost due to answers being deleted (not that it could make much of a dent to +1.3M rep, mere pocket change by comparison) aside, we've seen users get slapped with much longer bans for less. This is just like when celebrities get off with some light community service and a well-scripted public apology. The praise just seems... bizarre, I just don't get it. — Drew Reese 30 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Zoe
@Cerbrus Exactly. Not sure what the current situation is, but right after CGPT became big, nearly every single bounty attracted at least one AI-generated answer, and usually several. Bounties are known honeypots for AI content - and unfortunately, it means this isn't a unique case. It's a large-scale single case, but across all LLM-posting users, 1100 lost bounties is likely a fraction of the total number of bounties thrown at AI answers. I don't have exact numbers in general, nor can I get those numbers without going through at least weeks worth of manual labour — Zoe ♦ 19 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by super-starball-ultra
@MarkAmery I had a wrong SEDE query link to an older query rev, and also forgot to update some aggregation stuff. that's fixed now. I won't comment on my exclusion of git posts for now. — super-starball-ultra 1 min ago
 
5:31 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Andreas moved to Codidact
If I'm not mistaken, the tiered suspension ladder for AIGC starting so low traces back to the strike conclusions last year, as a compromise between SE and the community. That said, there's no point in suspending only for suspending. If one week is all it takes to turn a bad contributor into a good contributor, the goal has been reached. — Andreas moved to Codidact just now
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
"why the mods decided to delete all your posts from the time period" I don't understand this confusion, not all of the posts in that time period are deleted, this can be checked very easily by looking at their profile. — Abdul Aziz Barkat 20 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by mbrig
@Cerbrus "Suspensions are not a punishment.. Wat" - suspensions are (supposed to be) a protection/rehabilitation measure, not punitive. If the site doesn't need to be protected from disruptive behaviour, and the user knows the behaviour is wrong, there isn't shouldn't be a need for (longer) suspension. Exactly how the ideal translates into practice is maybe a little shaky... but that's the idea. — mbrig 27 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Then why even suspend for a week? Then why ramp up suspensions at all? Regardless of intent, to every single suspended user out there, suspensions are punishments. — Cerbrus just now
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Zoe
@AbdulAzizBarkat Some were undeleted after the fact, but they were, in fact, blanket deleted — Zoe ♦ 11 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
@Zoe I have a declined flag where I asked the moderators to review the answers deleted by the staff where it states "All answer deletions were confirmed with mods" so you're saying the moderators simply agreed to delete all the answers? No review involved? — Abdul Aziz Barkat 46 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Andreas moved to Codidact
I think there's a misunderstanding in this comment section. I think Cerbrus is speaking of "punishment" more as a preventative measure, while it's being interpreted as wanting revenge. — Andreas moved to Codidact 1 min ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Zoe
@AbdulAzizBarkat They were mostly reviewed after being deleted and on-demand, because going through 1850 answers to check each of them for AI-generated content is an enormous amount of work — Zoe ♦ 14 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
@Zoe so my flag decline message is false in the "all answer deletions" part? I'd have simply appreciated being left in the dark then rather than a lie like that (Not blaming you particularly) :( — Abdul Aziz Barkat 17 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Drew Reese
@mbrig Ok, suspensions are not punitive, so they are not "punishments", so let's call them "consequences"? 🤷🏻‍♂️ The net result as Cerbrus points out is that users will most certainly feel like they are being punished (consequenced ???) for something they did that is against the rules. — Drew Reese 40 secs ago
 
 
1 hour later…
7:08 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@AbdulAzizBarkat Your flag decline message was not a lie. "All answers deletions were confirmed with mods" is true. We are not going to disclose full details of the operation. — Dalija Prasnikar ♦ 31 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
@DalijaPrasnikar Really? "all" answers' deletions were confirmed with the mods as the message says? Or is it like Zoe mentioned. Both are contradictory, for sure.. — Syed M. Sannan 7 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Abdul Aziz Barkat
@DalijaPrasnikar so are you saying all 1850 answers were reviewed? Zoe's comment that said "They were mostly reviewed after being deleted and on-demand" wasn't really clear on that, I guess I misunderstood then. I really appreciate the work the moderators have put into this, I understand 1850 posts is quite a lot to review. — Abdul Aziz Barkat just now
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Kevin B
It seems fairly clear to me... they blanket deleted them all then reviewed and and undeleted a number of them. There's no value in getting into specifics on how many were individually reviewed when it's fairly clear which groups of answers are more likely to have been not ai given the past activity of the user. — Kevin B 20 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
@KevinB Sure, but then the message "All answers' deletions were confirmed with the mods" is a bit misleading. It conveys that the mods individually reviewed every single one of the answers as Abdul Aziz perceived as well. — Syed M. Sannan 48 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Kevin B
So what? call it misleading. it doesn't matter. — Kevin B 11 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by tdy
@KevinB FYI even domain experts have been caught posting AIGC answers (confirmed and deleted) in their own domain.tdy 29 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Kevin B
@tdy Which is why it's worth reviewing those, and it's likely those have been given many have been undeleted. — Kevin B 35 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Ray
To clarify, did you decide to confess on your own, or after you were caught? — Ray 51 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by zcoop98
This is the part of this debacle that feels the ickiest to me; we've presumably lost valuable content that real curators deemed valuable in the meantime. I'm not sure I have anything of value to suggest as a solution, but that's the piece here that hits me the most... We've burned down a chunk of the library because it was tainted, and that's wildly unsatisfying, even though it was justified under the rules. — zcoop98 6 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@SyedM.Sannan There is nothing contradictory in those statements. It is just how you are interpreting them. Again I am not going into details. — Dalija Prasnikar ♦ 19 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
@KevinB No arguing that, lol. — Syed M. Sannan 24 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Syed M. Sannan
@zcoop98 Yeah, taking that into consideration, I really think there should be more consequences for VonC but then on the other side, I'd feel it'd be unfair to give him special treatment at the moment just due to the amount of content that is lost. I think there should be another SO post as a proposal to detail the extents of consequences for varying level of AIGC violations and see what the community says on that. — Syed M. Sannan just now
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by NoDataDumpNoContribution
Discussions also isn't well integrated into the rest of the site, hardly discoverable, and guidance or quality control is missing. Apart from that, even if high rep users don't create discussions there, it might be useful for some people. — NoDataDumpNoContribution just now
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by NoDataDumpNoContribution
@ChrisB "If I have a choice, why would I go there?" You might be bored, maybe? (Probably you aren't, just as a general comment.) — NoDataDumpNoContribution 48 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Karl Knechtel
@ErikA if those specific features are popular, they can have their own tags; and if it's somehow necessary to disambiguate those features by putting the language name in the tag, that can happen too. There's already a ggplotly tag, and tagging a question [r] [plotly] [ggplotly] is IMO perfectly reasonable. — Karl Knechtel 32 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by NoDataDumpNoContribution
Just out of curiosity: were the generated answers fact checked before posting them or just as is? If they were checked, for how long approximately? Also hard to believe that someone can post a thousand generated answers without anyone else noticing. — NoDataDumpNoContribution 47 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Security Hound
@NoDataDumpNoContribution - Suspect a case of “this user has more reputation than the top .1% of the user base” bias was in effect, and nobody thought someone with a history of submitting quality answers, would ever intentionally break the rules so flagrantly. Confused by the light punishment. A user who submitted a half dozen ChatGPT answers was suspended for a year. A user submitting hundreds or thousands of ChatGPT answers should not get the same punishment — Security Hound 12 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Karl Knechtel
@Lundin "The main issue I have here is that disciplinary actions/punishments seem so arbitrary on this network. There doesn't seem to be any relation between the severity of the offense and the disciplinary actions, except for those who are repeatedly breaking rules." cough, cough, the question-ban algorithm.... — Karl Knechtel 54 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Karl Knechtel
@Gimby I kinda like the idea of a separate SE site for that kind of history question. (I doubt retrocomputing.SE would consider it in scope, but....) — Karl Knechtel 12 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Sayse
Given the state of discussions and no signs of improvement or interest in improvement, it feels like eventually they'll just be removed and thus a waste of time to engage in — Sayse 26 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by zcoop98
@Gimby Reducing user frustration is a well-documented and accepted goal of UX design. It is wildly unreasonable to suggest that the solution to someone being frustrated on our platform is for them to just stop being frustrated. Frustration implies care; it implies the user had wants or expectations from the site that were not met. They could be unreasonable– to your point, which isn't something we can really solve (outside of helping convey reasonable expectations). But expecting reviewers not to become frustrated with crappy design, not to care when they review, is unhelpful, IMO. — zcoop98 33 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Kevin B
i mean, discussions exists, but good luck getting anyone with knowledge to share to notice it among the rest of the "discussions". — Kevin B 47 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Karl Knechtel
@Gimby "Regardless, it is counterproductive to try and reduce frustration. It shouldn't exist to begin with." At first I thought you meant that the queue shouldnt' exist to begin with. I'd actually support that. It's a terrible design that only makes sense given false premises about how the site works. Since review work is voluntary anyway, people who want to review should be given better tools to search and filter for the things they're best qualified to review. If the goal is to herd cats into 100% review coverage, that probably became impossible in 2009. — Karl Knechtel 1 min ago
 
8:35 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by PM 2Ring
VonC could rewrite those answers manually, as a form of community service. Assuming that we can trust him to do that without cheating again... — PM 2Ring 25 secs ago
 
8:47 PM
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by PM 2Ring
VonC could redistribute that ill-gotten rep as bounties. Just sayin'... — PM 2Ring 50 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by super-starball-ultra
@PM2Ring I was thinking of mentioning that too... but I couldn't find a strong enough logic/argument/plan for that route. Kevin already made the argument about bounties giving value of attention/views, and who would the bounty go to? to a random answer of the original bounty starter? (what if they have no answer posts?) to nobody, but started on the same question posts? do we think it's good for VonC to be rewarding bounties to answers on the original questions? — super-starball-ultra 18 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by President James K. Polk
It's like finding out that Secretariat cheated. — President James K. Polk 9 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by NotTheDr01ds
@SecurityHound My understanding is that suspensions are typically based on repeat offenses. After the strike, it was mentioned that a first offense would be a warning, followed by increasing times of suspension. There may be other factors that sometimes come into play, but, if my understanding is correct, a first offense for AI/plagiarism would never result in a year suspension. — NotTheDr01ds 42 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Kevin B
eh, i wouldn't want a form of punishment/repentance to be answering questions outside of one's conform zone such that they felt the need to use AI to answer them in the first place. — Kevin B 9 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Islam Hassan
@KevinB That discussions thing is awful. Even when they tried to pick some of them to publicize in a blog, the selected examples were terrible. I would rather not ask these questions at all than use that feature. (I know that is your sentiment as well) — Islam Hassan 36 secs ago
[ Boson light ] New comment posted by Islam Hassan
@KarlKnechtel Yeah, me too. I do think it's off topic for retrocomputing and that it's impossible for a proposal like to gain enough traction and participation to succeed as a separate site proposal though unfortunately. — Islam Hassan 44 secs ago
 
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