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[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tom
"Am I right in thinking rep loss doesn't show up in the top right corner? " Yes, it doesn't. Only positive values are shown there. — Tom 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by adeneo
... also, if there was *"Drank the kool aid" badge, you'd get that as well :-) — adeneo 6 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ivar
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Matthew
Have a look at the other questions posted today, question points changed from +5 to +10. — Matthew 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Michael Berry
@CrisLuengo My bad, it's just a screenshot from stackoverflow.com/site-analytics (I believe any user over 20k can see it.) I'll add the years in the labels later if I get a moment. — Michael Berry 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Denys Séguret
@LightnessRaceswithMonica I also went from 299k to 300k without crossing the line, due to the recomputation. — Denys Séguret 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by alamoot
You're right Peter, it was a typo. fixed — alamoot 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ḿűỻịgǻṇạcểơửṩ ᛗ
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lightness Races with Monica
@DenysSéguret My condolences :( — Lightness Races with Monica 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ḿűỻịgǻṇạcểơửṩ ᛗ
I don't think so. If you are a high-reputation user, your rate of reputation increase increases; but please note that the intervals where new privileges are handed out increases as well. The other "score" is the tag scores and the badges. — Ḿűỻịgǻṇạcểơửṩ ᛗ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by LittleBobbyTables
If we're going to put more weight on questions, can we also remove the 1-reputation floor then? If you ask a good question - congratulations, you now get 10 points per upvote. You ask an awful "Do my homework for me" question? Each downvote counts for the full -2 points, and if you go negative in reputation... well, that's your fault. — LittleBobbyTables 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ḿűỻịgǻṇạcểơửṩ ᛗ
Many duplicates are still good contributions. — Ḿűỻịgǻṇạcểơửṩ ᛗ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by IMSoP
@DenysSéguret Your answer seems to be saying that changing the reputation in this way is the end of Stack Overflow as we know it, because previously reputation was meaningful, and now it won't be. I don't see how that is the case. Questions always formed part of reputation, and reputation always represented "how much the community trusted you". It has never been a score of "problem-solving ability", but a good problem-solving ability is one of the ways to gain it, both before and after this change. — IMSoP 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tom
You have explained the situation, but not why you think this needs to be changed. Why do you think receiving upvotes over time is an issue? And what is the issue anyway? Is the issue that someone new may receive fewer votes one the same amount of question? Is it then also unfair then someone mainly works on Javascript/Java/C# (i.e. high-frequence tags) vs. someone working on Cobol? — Tom 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
The pure amount of confusion and banner blindness is causing a lot of work. I still haven't gotten my email on the change - I imagine I'm not alone. For a feature change that has the implications of "magically" changing rep without a "visible" (+x rep event, reasoning "vote value correction" with a link to the blog post or something), they handled it horribly in terms of properly notifying users. — Zoe 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by meJustAndrew
@CodyGray I want to thank you for all the effort you are putting into communicating to everyone this change and for providing a bridge between the community and the SE team. You deserve being a moderator, and you are doing an amazing job here! — meJustAndrew 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Yes, indeed. Who would complain about more reputation points? But then there is rep envy. — Peter Mortensen 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
the query doesn't filter out questions with negative votes or questions that are deleted. Also answers that are downvoted are not filtered out either. I adjusted for that data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1148533/… as you can see there is a slightly wider gap now. — Steffen Winkler 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Matthew
@Zoe I would have to agree, I also came here to ask before firstly reading a few of the other posts which explained the situation. — Matthew 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
Hmm, I also have 100 from bonuses on /reputation — rene 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Isn't this covered in other meta questions (not a rhetorical question)? — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Curtis
i mean... it is odd he went up 66. The calculation change would mean the difference should be a multiple of 5. Either way... how did he only go up by so few points? I gained like 400 points after the change. — Curtis 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@CodyGray it does change a lot for the answerers vs the askers. It changes their ranking. This retroactive goalpost shifting has cost me 255 places in my ranking. The rep number in points is meaningless in itself, it's the ranking that counts. Just like with money, there's inflation with time, so points have no meaning except through the derived ranking. And you have just changed that meaning. RETROACTIVELY.Will Ness 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sнаđошƒаӽ
I got some 600 rep over night. — Sнаđошƒаӽ 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
What is the dips? Christmas? — Peter Mortensen 40 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scott Hannen
@CindyMeister - Many of what we call "privileges" are just extra ways to donate time to the site. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's a weird sort of privilege. Getting to relax in airline lounge because you have lots of miles is a privilege. Getting to be the flight attendant and walk around telling people to put their seats in the upright position, not so much. (Getting to fly the plane would be cool.) — Scott Hannen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@TylerH this. I was 2080th, yesterday. — Will Ness 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@WillNess What are you referring to when you say ranking? — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@CodyGray Questions are how we organize content here; content doesn't show up on threads based on answer score; we have /questions; we don't have /answers. If you want to see answers, you have to filter by them explicitly in search, and even then you don't have any value or context from the answer until you read the question. — TylerH 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
Fully agree. moreover, I will now actively go through my old upvotes on questions an will unupvote any that I find I did as an encouragement, on the more poorly asked questions. Yes I did that a lot. Now I won't. An I will downvote without hesitation now, too. — Will Ness 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@hatchet-ReinstateMonica Fully agree. Even more, I will now actively go through my old upvotes on questions an will unupvote any that I find I did as an encouragement, on the more poorly asked questions. Yes I did that a lot. Now I won't. — Will Ness 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
Possible duplicate of Advantage to Old Usersgnat 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
not the retroactive aspect of it. that just can't be condoned in any way. — Will Ness 20 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Hans Passant
It only shows the association bonus. You don't normally lose rep on an answer that got deleted after being around a long time. You probably lost it yesterday. — Hans Passant 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Michael Berry
@SteffenWinkler Thanks for that query - that's very useful. — Michael Berry 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
@Curtis It might've been an answer downvote getting reversed. Can't say that for certain though, but with the event being hidden and "show deleted posts" presumably being unchecked, both vote reversal on deleted posts (cast and received) might come into play. — Zoe 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Michael Berry
@PeterMortensen Yup. — Michael Berry 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@wim Wow, an extra 11k rep just for his top 10 questions alone (out of 1500...) - must be nice :-) — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sayse
It appears users are already starting to abuse the rep change, asking terrible questions gaining 1 upvote and profiting. — Sayse 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by zero298
The fact that this incentivizes asking questions is what worries me. Yes, we want people to ask questions, but I'm still of the opinion that asking a question should be the last thing you do on your research road. I wonder if this was a reason that answer was deleted at one point. — zero298 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nina Scholz
@HansPassant, the questions are undeleted. — Nina Scholz 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by aw04
why the downvote? — aw04 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by silkfire
I think there should be a system in place where a newbie has to answer 5 questions and get at least one (1) upvote on them all before gaining the privilege to ask questions. This way there would be more incentive for newcomers to compose high quality questions already from the beginning, contributing to the community from day one. — silkfire 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@WillNess No one looks at that for any reason other than to look at it though. It has no bearing on anything other than itself. Aside from that, your ranking can change anyway by that many positions (or more) just from normal site activity. — TylerH 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dakkaron
@Tom I added why I think the current system causes harm — Dakkaron 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sayse
There hasn't been a decrease in moderator activity, I still regularly see mods doing their work. Theres a decrease in moderators and I find it unlikely that there will be many candidates at the next election — Sayse 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@wha That’s an estimation, but not precisely correct. It fails to take into account the daily reputation limit, for example. — Cody Gray ♦ 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@zero298 I'm sure it was part of it. The company (including the CMs) care about profit because it's what benefits them as a company and as individuals. The bottom line is quality harms profit, so they're doing what they can to eliminate it. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
You probably won't be able to unupvote, @WillNess ; not unsure the question has been edited. Unless they don't have the same rules as answer upvotes. — Larnu 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Moderators can see this information in a history log, but I don’t think there’s any way that a user can see this about themselves. You previously had 8485 reputation; your recalculated rep is 8895. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by wha7ever
oldReputation = newReputation - (numberOfQuestionUpvotes * 5). As Cody said, it's an estimate, yes. — wha7ever 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@Herohtar yes, and as one of those people who used to upvote somewhat poor but salvageable questions as an encouragement (esp. when they got a lot of downvotes as you say) I will now actively go through all my upvotes and undo those that I find I did like that. I've already started doing it. The change to the rep system causes me to re-evaluate my voting preferences. If they did it retroactively it is in my prerogative to redo my votes retroactively as well. — Will Ness 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
As an example, 70 rep were earned. + 20 from the answers give 90 (the rep difference). But there's also two edits, accounting for 94, but if OP had a +1 -3 (net +4: 10 - 6) answer that got deleted (from review, by 20k, or the entire question got nuked) some time between the 1st and now, that would account for the rep. There's lots of vote combinations to get the math to work out, but it's likely. Again, just speculation. I can't find OPs deleted posts and verify that anyway (I'm not a mod). — Zoe 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dakkaron
@gnat While the question is similar, I don't think it is a straight duplicate. The other question focusses on how shiny a high reputation score looks on an older user, while my question focusses on the fact that this imbalance undermines what the reputation score is supposed to mean. That is, how much trust the community can place in you. — Dakkaron 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@TylerH nice, yes. I just undid one of my upvotes on one of his questions, which under the new rules I judge not deserving of my upvote anymore. — Will Ness 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
How is doing nothing by one group making it hard for another group? I don't get how those are related. — rene 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BobbyA
Sara mentioned here that "Tim wanted to shield me from ire". He's been pretty open about his struggles with anxiety, and how that's caused him to act in ways that were harmful to the community. Has being less than even-keeled contributed to the hostility he's complained about? Given Sara is relatively new to this company, I can't help but wonder how much of her view here has been distorted by Tim's perception of the community and its issues. Citation: meta.stackexchange.com/a/334385/364293BobbyA 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Hans Passant
There is no decent way to find out what answers were deleted. They don't show up in /reputation, there was no rep change at the time, you never got a notification for them. — Hans Passant 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@WillNess You weren't really using upvotes correctly if you were applying them based on "this user should earn 5 rep but not 10 rep for this". — TylerH 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@Sayse: To be fair, Team Podcast has always been detached from the actual content or events of the site(s). The first series had a little bit, but not very much - boat programming (hard deleted on Stack Overflow) and Spolsky's LOGO one comes to mind. — Peter Mortensen 45 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@Larnu oh I'm editing them, be sure of that. Any that I find lacking, and not deserving of my upvote under the new value system, I'm editing and un-upvoting. The good ones I don't touch of course. — Will Ness 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nina Scholz
the dupe does not answer my question ... — Nina Scholz 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
You won’t get any notification at all. The rep will just jump when the recalculation on the database is complete for your account. History will be completely rewritten (“we’ve always been at war with Eastasia”); you won’t even be able to see what your old rep level was. — Cody Gray ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@TylerH no, it was more like, "this isn't very well formatted but is good at its core and can be salvaged, so why should it get piled on and get -5 votes, so let's encourage that poor chap with an upvote, and get the Q into shape, and maybe answer it, too" kinda thing. — Will Ness 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sayse
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
Editting to unvote seems like an unexpected loophole. :/ — Larnu just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by matteo
@PieterNuyts I wouldn't give a -1 to the answer though (I'm not questioning that you did), because this is (I guess) the correct answer to the question, correctly explaining the (flawed) reasoning that was behind the (wrong) decision to put the (stupid) 6-char limit in place, so this would be a valid answer. Unless the author of the answer is the person responsible for implementing it — matteo 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@WillNess Yeah, pity is a well-known anti-pattern for up/down votes. — TylerH 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scott Hannen
Don't say "help vampire." The polite term is "help tapeworm." — Scott Hannen 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by matteo
- or unless on Meta a downvote to an answer is supposed to mean disagreement, just like when I posted a reasonable feature request (which is a positive contribution to the community even thought one is against it) and I got downvoted by those who were against the proposal even though they appreciated it, and they explained to me that on Meta, downvotes are used to "vote against" a feature request or proposal. So i wonder if that applies to answers as well. Not that I care much about up/down votes. — matteo 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@TylerH of course it can change, and does / did, according to the rules. And now they changed those rules, retroactively. that's the only thing I'm objecting to, really; otherwise I don't care what they do with their site. By they changed what I did here, in effect. — Will Ness 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@TylerH also it does have a bearing on one more thing: that "top 0.5% overall" next to a user's name. So yes, people do see that, a lot. — Will Ness 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@TylerH not just a blind pity, not if the Q was really bad. But often an OP posts an out-of-shape Q, gets piled on, edits it into shape, and people do not revisit their votes! which I consider an anti-pattern too. so if such a Q had, say, -1 on balance, I'd upvote. Now I'm forced to re-think those. — Will Ness 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@WillNess People may see it but no one cares. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@WillNess If you're voting based on the quality of the question, then your vote shouldn't change based on whether your vote gives 5 rep or 10 rep. If you're voting based on how much rep you want to give to someone, that's a misuse of votes. There's not really any wiggle room there. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TDG
So this site gives away VIRTUAL point, and now it wil give some more of them, right? — TDG 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Schneider
Since you're asking about the Apple App Store specifically, it might be on topic for Ask Different. Review their guidelines here: apple.stackexchange.com/help/on-topicJon Schneider 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@TDG: Only the association bonus is given by the system itself. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Josh Crozier
@TylerH - Not true. That is a disingenuous take there. — Josh Crozier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
@TylerH feeling a bit omniscient are we. — Will Ness 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
heh. they could've discussed it with. the. community. first, could they? :) — Will Ness 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@WillNess OK, let me rephrase: no one cares for any reason that matters. If someone is changing how they interact with you in real life (or even here on the site), either by offering you some respect, a job offer, a book deal, a conference gig, etc. vs not doing those things, based purely on whether you're top 0.22% vs top 0.20% on Stack Overflow, then you're better off not dealing with them at all in the first place. They're clearly placing way too much value in something that doesn't accurately represent said value and never claimed to in the first place. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@user1725145: You mean Codidact? — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
A rep recalc happened. Whatever caused the loss likely occurred some time in the past but just didn't apply properly until the recalc. — Kevin B just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tom
You could start this this: stackoverflow.com/reputationTom 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
[ Boson ] New comment posted by betontalpfa
@Curtis The difference is 70 because the -4 rep, which I had lost during this period. So math is correct — betontalpfa 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by am304
@Tom thanks, that's a great step forward. — am304 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
"but where are the rewards (or acknowledgement) for finding duplicates" I don't know if we should get rewards for these, however, I also think that people shouldn't get rewarded for answering questions that are duplicates. I constantly see a couple of users that consistently answer obvious duplicates when they should be closing them (as they're a "gold badger"). — Larnu 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
Yes, and the place where you download it from is in that question. it's the audit. — Kevin B 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Patel Romil
@PeterMortensen, yes for all questions we have to repeat it. — Patel Romil 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
That is only for a single question. Shouldn't it be repeated for all questions? — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
What is "atp"? — Peter Mortensen 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by AndrewC
So make an alternative answer that people can upvote to above this one in score. The comments are achieving nothing. They have very low visibility, and in the absence of an opposing answer, this looks like the best solution, which isn't what you want. — AndrewC 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
what's horrible is that it is applied retroactively. that is truly horrible. IMO. and they didn't just change the final value. they changed the whole history of your rep (at stackexchange.com/users/NNN/name?tab=reputation). truly Orwellian. — Will Ness 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Felipe Alameda A
83.1% of unanswered questions last week and still believing that such a tragedy for a Q&A site can be mitigated by increasing the number of questions rewarding those who ask with "reputation". Obviously, the strategy behind this decision is purely commercial and confirms that StackOverlow has long ceased to be THE site to seek technical answers. Many results on Google but very few really useful. I have never asked a question and I stopped answering them years ago. I still check the site for interesting answers, more scarce every day unfortunately. — Felipe Alameda A 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
This was a pretty obvious case. I think you knew it was targeting. A moderator flag makes the most sense in that case, since there's really nothing the community can or should do about it. @Thomas — Cody Gray ♦ 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Will Ness
yeah yeah yeah, but not ReTrOaCtiVeLy!!!!!! make a change however you like it, don't change the very history that already happened. There was even a book written about this subject, relatively unobscure one at that. By a relatively not that unknown an author. Don't you understand how bad it is, to change history??? Not? Why???????? — Will Ness 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@Ocaso I'm a community-elected moderator, not a staff member. They don't let me write blog posts on the official blog. I agree the rationale should have been in there, and the company should be doing a better job of explaining themselves to veteran users. I'm doing what I can to bridge that gap. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@Scott Umm, pretty sure the answer to that question is self-evident. The difference would look something like shutting down the Meta sites. Please don't take this as any sort of hint that is going to happen. I created this question with the express purpose of allowing community members to constructively make their points of view known, pretty much exactly as it has happened. I don't know that the feedback will have any effect, but I do know that staff members are reading it, and regardless, I think being able to make one's opposition view known has value. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@CodyGray Please don't take "feedback" comments personally (I hope you didn't) we all know or at least hope so that there are some staff members that do listen to the community. It is not easy to express disappointments when on the other side is someone that is not even closely responsible. I am sorry that we are shooting the messengers in this process. — Dalija Prasnikar 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dustin Davis
I wanted to suggest similar idea for scaling, maybe questions that get 5 votes (in proportion to down votes) get scaled up and are worth 10 instead of 5. I'm not really sure how a system like that would work, or if it's even a good idea but could alleviate the concerns while regarding good questions and not rewarding bad ones. But maybe the answer isn't a clear cut static value for a vote? — Dustin Davis 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by SecretAgentMan
When I look at this old question (cartoons), the questions and answers appear to be community wikis. I'm not convinced they generate "passive rep" for anyone. — SecretAgentMan 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@Will The change was made retroactive in the interest of fairness. If we're going to reinvent the reputation system, it only makes sense to hold everyone to the same standard. Putting aside my feelings about the necessity of this change, I cannot for a moment imagine why it would ever make sense to do so only from a certain point forward. Across the entire history of this site, whenever the reputation system was tweaked, all of the changes were applied retroactively. Changing history is dangerous if you're denying what happened. No one's denying anything here. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
Sorry, sarcasm died here with the Welcoming wagon. — Dalija Prasnikar 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
There's also a very practical concern, @Will. Reputation recalculations are triggered dynamically all the time. This accounts for cases where you downvote an answer (thus reducing your rep by 1), then that answer is deleted (which refunds the -1 rep loss). If these changes to the scoring system weren't retroactive, you'd have all kinds of weird behavior. Users would start randomly gaining reputation whenever the system triggered a behind-the-scenes rep recalculation, and that would just be confusing. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Isac
I only wish i could upvote this twice. I think every single point you make here is the absolute truth, including the fact that they don't care at all about the community feedback on any change. I too think this may indeed by the final nail in the coffin. — Isac 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter - Reinstate Monica
It's part of being more inclusive. Actual knowledge is secondary. — Peter - Reinstate Monica 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
This isn't accurate for the reasons mentioned in this comment. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
They're not just community wikis, @Secret. The entire question is locked. No one can even vote. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by psubsee2003
Rep loses show up in the Achievements list, but you don't get a notification. — psubsee2003 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@ayorgo: It's not like the question askers are bringing money in, either. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by SecretAgentMan
^ Yes, that too. — SecretAgentMan 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
While I feel that I've left my sentiment on another response, I challenge you to quantify the definition of a "useful" question. If it's the actual question itself, then perhaps this is a positive change. If it's the answers from the useful question, then it's very much the case that the focus was on the wrong thing. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by haldo
I've just seen one (vampire) account go from ~2k a few days ago to >20k today (~1.2k questions). How is that possible? I would have expected it to double, not go 10 fold! At least we know that bumping rep does actually work! Doubling the answer rep score would create mod powers for those users that actually care about the site, rather than users that only want answers to their questions IMO. This is another disappointing announcement — haldo 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dan Neely
What OS/browser and can you repeat the problem? I was unable to reproduce in W10 with Chrome or Firefox. — Dan Neely 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ayorgo
@Makoto they increase chances of ads being clicked on I guess. And since the no-of-answerers to no-of-askers ratio is pretty small, someone high up the management ladder with a narrow understanding of how the site works may be pushing this to increase the total audience at the expense of quality to make the quarterly report look good or smth. — ayorgo 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
It seems obviously to be the question itself, @Makoto. Why should questions retroactively gain value because they have been answered? The question is the seed the enables the answer to grow. You're buying Jeff Atwood's reasoning lock, stock, and barrel. Which I'm not blaming you for, because I did, too. But there's just as much hand-waving in his blog post as there is in Sara's, if not more. Question-askers are put at a systematic disadvantage in terms of rep, and the data shows the purported justification (discourage low-quality questions) didn't pan out. So...why keep doing it? — Cody Gray ♦ 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I believe that this is answered in the text of the question. The reputation recalculation (which I believe should be complete now) will effectively add +5 reputation for each question upvote, but it will do so within the nuances of the full reputation system (e.g., it will take into account the daily rep cap). It's a full playback-style recalculation, taking all history and circumstances into effect, just with the new question score. Your rep will just change as a big bang; there'll be no notification or way to see your old rep. Badges will also be affected, and will be handed out separately. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by NotThatGuy
"lowering the reputation gained from question upvotes has not had the desired effect" - correlation is not causation. Do you have any evidence to suggest the volume of low-quality questions would not have been much higher without that change? — NotThatGuy 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MonkeyZeus
Not sure if you're aware but opening your post with "Those of you who suffer from banner blindness may not have noticed the announcement" does not harbor good will. Aside from the obvious trudge of Stack Overflow moving away from quality and pushing for quantity why don't you just remove all moderation tools. The influx of crap is already outpacing any crowdsource hours that anyone puts in but then again maybe this is a ploy to propel newbies into these once prestigious designations of moderation given that exoduses keep happening. — MonkeyZeus 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@CodyGray: This is an interesting perspective. My belief on the reasoning was that the answerer's time was considered to be more valuable and thus more respected, thus preventing the circumstance in which "OP" could gain tons of rep from only asking questions. In another light, think of a lecture hall full of students. The obvious value in the lecture hall is not the students, but the lecturer, otherwise there would be no point to having the lecturer. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@CodyGray: To then shift that relationship and suggest that there can be some kind of equivalence is fundamentally flawed. While this may be a silly discussion on some silly internet points, it definitely does impact how I view them from now on. — Makoto 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@CodyGray: To suggest that question-askers are at a "disadvantage" is mischaracterizing it. They are the disadvantaged. They're the ones asking the question, and the whole value that they get from doing so is an answer. The answerers are the ones who are far rarer and their time is far more valuable, since they're the ones who are sharing their expertise and their time with others. This relationship cannot be shifted because of its very nature. If you're asking a question, you're subconsciously asking for expertise, time and some level of investment. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I think it goes back to the fundamental question of how you view reputation, which has been discussed elsewhere. What reputation actually is is a measure of your engagement with and contributions to a Stack Exchange site. It therefore serves as a measure of your experience and familiarity with our rules/customs/norms. This is why it's used to grant privileges. As far as demonstrating one's technical prowess, although that is apparently a popular view, rep has never been more than a hint at that. I agree that askers do get a different sort of reward, though: the answer. Will consider. @mak — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jordan.J.D
@DanNeely, firefox W10. I have not reproduced it yet. — Jordan.J.D 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@MonkeyZeus I'm not sure how leading with a joke does anything to harm good will. The point is that the policy has already been announced, you've all surely seen it, so this isn't really an announcement. It's a forum for those affected to share their feedback, including criticism. I'm going to skip the giant strawman in your second sentence. There's no evidence SO is moving away from quality, and I certainly am not. Yes, the influx of crap is a huge problem. However, reducing rep gain from questions did nothing to address that problem. It is not the ploy you accuse it of being. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ocaso Protal
@CodyGray I know that and I know that you are doing great work. Thanks a lot for your work! — Ocaso Protal 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Furthermore, as I say in a comment to a similar answer, this just wouldn't work, even if it were the intention. Giving a bunch of folks more reputation isn't going to do bupkis for the moderation gap. The tools don't do any good if people aren't actually using them. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
No, this is not the real reason. I say that because that is my practical assessment of the most significant effect that the recalculation will have. But that was not the motivation behind the change. The motivation was to address the disproportionality between askers and answerers, recognizing that the original tactic of reducing question rep gain didn't solve the problem of low-quality questions. These changes have been in the works for a very long time and actually have nothing to do with recent events motivating an exodus of trusted users. — Cody Gray ♦ 2 mins ago
 
7:42 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei
Thanks for the clarifications. However, it sounds strange as I have expected that the private versions of Stack are somewhat isolated from these "experiments" (different branches, other instances of jobs recomputing stuff etc.). — Alexei just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by hek2mgl
Wow, great post! — hek2mgl 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Devil's Advocate
There are those of us out there who consider ourselves "askers" not "answerers". Sure, getting the answer itself is fantastic, and I don't really care about this change either way, but we do exist. :) — Devil's Advocate 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user369450
Is this why I have roughly 25% more reputation than I thought I had? — user369450 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dijkgraaf
@KarelG The recalculation is so that a vote on a answer or a question are both the same at +10. It was a change in 2011 that made them different. — Dijkgraaf 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@user369450 Yes, the reputation recalculation that was recently completed changed your reputation from 10124 to 13199. — Cody Gray ♦ 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by manveti
@haldo Exactly what I'd expect for a vampire account -- most crap questions will have several downvotes but a few pity/"me too" upvotes, staying around neutral rep before, but being major rep gains now. For example, a +2/-5 question used to be worth 0 rep, now it's worth +10. Or this question (currently +152/-359), were rep counted on meta, would change from +42 to +802, almost 20x as much. — manveti 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user369450
@CodyGray Thanks, that explains my confusion today from my reputation being unusually high because I could have sworn I only recently passed the 10k mark. — user369450 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scott Hannen
@CodyGray - one evident meaning of "having a voice" is that you can speak. Presumably you didn't mean that, because you wouldn't need to state that you 'fundamentally believe' something so obvious. Another meaning is that what we say counts for something. But I don't think you meant that. So what does 'having a voice' mean? It's okay to admit if no one cares what we think. That's generally considered not having a voice. — Scott Hannen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
It counts for something to me, @Scott, and I know it counts for something to at least some of the staff members. Does it count for something with the actual decision-makers? I don’t know. Maybe? But I get that it feels more like “maybe not”, and I get (oh, so I ever empathize!) that is very frustrating. But that’s no reason to stop speaking out, both when you’re happy and when you’re not. Importantly, it should count for something to you (where “you” is all community members). — Cody Gray ♦ 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by AkselA
@Pureferret: *raises hand*. If I see a question at -1 that should in fairness be at 0, I tend to give it an up vote, which I wouldn't have done if it already was at 0. In these cases I don't as much want to award the question, as I want to encourage others to answer it. — AkselA 1 min ago
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8:32 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pureferret
@AkselA then that's not pity voting that's doing something for the community — Pureferret 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@Karel The blog post is unfortunately very light on meaningful details. To answer your question, please read this answer of mine, where I explain the historical background and the justification behind the change. — Cody Gray ♦ 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Nowhere? Is nowhere a place? This shouldn’t even be a thing… It certainly isn’t on-topic for the Stack Exchange network. — Cody Gray ♦ 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by am304
@KevinB I'm sorry but that's not answering my question. At best, it points to the page that Tom mentoned - which is a good start - but still does not allow a data download to say a *.csv file, with dates in one column and repuaton in another. You would need to copy and paste the information on the page and post-process it in some way to extract the data. — am304 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pierre-Luc Pineault
Feels to me like SO is saying "We don't really care about you helping people and sharing your knowledge - We value more people asking for help", which doesn't resonate well with me. — Pierre-Luc Pineault 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by am304
@KevinB Hence the feature-request tag — am304 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I don’t normally take time to say this, but this answer is stellar. Thank you so much for writing it. This has been a frequently-asked question regarding the question weight changes, and I appreciate having a thoughtful, well-written answer to which to refer. When I first opened the question, I had been hoping a staff member would have posted an authoritative answer. You’ve done better than I could have hoped of them. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
@am304 No such thing exists. The content we've linked you to is it. — Kevin B 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
@am304 Care to reform your question such that it actually looks like a feature request? — Kevin B 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by am304
@KevinB Will do. The reason it was phrased as a question is because I simply did not know whether it was possible and I just didn't know how, or whether it was simply not possible at present. — am304 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JL2210
OK, WTF is wrong with this anwser? — JL2210 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Xrylite
There are so many diamond posts lately that people downvote and disagree with. Doubling the downvote rep loss would make look worse than they already do. With that in mind, I agree that it should be doubled. — Xrylite 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tim
@CodyGray My account has been under attack since wim's comment. Do you want to do something about it? Thanks. — Tim 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dustin Davis
Would be nice if down voter commented as to why they disagreed with my post. Or did you just down vote because it's not a rage post again the new change? — Dustin Davis 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
If you want a moderator to investigate, raise a flag, @Tim. Note that we don’t generally consider downvotes to be an “attack”, unless they’re targeted, and targeted votes will be automatically reversed by a script (but it only runs once per day, so patience is required). — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tim
@CodyGray Do you endorse the behavior of announcing one's account publicly under one specific context that have attracted a large number of attacks in a short time? — Tim 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Antoine Pelletier
When I first came here, I felt like this was a PRO forum. So I had to be professional myself to get answers. When I was not good enough, people were reacting accordingly. Now, today, saw a sudden gain of about 400 rep points and I feel like I don't deserve them. I got answer to my question ! That is enough of a reward for asking correctly ! — Antoine Pelletier 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rob
Thank you for your answers. I think Apple Stack Echange fits better because even if ASO is a sort of SEO, the url contains “webmasters", which IMO ASO has nothing to do with. I’m afraid any ASO question would be rejected there because of this. — Rob 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tim
@CodyGray the consequences will be my posts deleted by the system due to the attacks — Tim 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@Tim Everyone is responsible for their own behavior. Folks who choose to follow a link and serially downvote another user are breaking the rules, and there very likely will be consequences. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jonas Wilms
@Ḿűỻịgǻṇạcểơửṩ ᛗ Please read the question first before commenting :) — Jonas Wilms 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by danpen
This is a bad idea. — danpen 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by joshmcode
Imagine if this same idea was put into a corporate environment. Senior people (who know a lot) are paid at some dollar amount because of their knowledge. People with less knowledge (less senior people) are paid less because they know less. As they learn more, they are paid more, in general. This would be like giving all less-senior persons the same pay as senior staff... which is like slapping the senior people in the face e.g. your knowledge is worthless. — joshmcode 6 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scopchanov
@adeneo, do you really call the ability to transform a problem emerging in the code of a real-world project into a minimal, complete and verifiable example "lack of knowledge"? Or there has never been a well educated, expirienced developer, who is suffering from poorly documented API and needs help figuring out the cause of a particular strange behaviour? Furthermore, in a numerous of occasions in the real life I was able to find a mistake made by people with a far more experience than me (call it luck), with them still being superior regarding their understanding of the matter. — scopchanov 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
Even with the downvote penalty doubled, this change still benefits the asker. An upvote/downvote pair used to net the asker 3 reputation. Even with your change, it would net them 6. (That's better than netting them 8, of course, but still a change for the worse.) — jpmc26 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by wim
@jpmc26 Good point. Edited. — wim 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
"What does this accomplish beyond warm and fuzzies for the question askers who ask a reasonable question?" Warm and fuzzies for people who ask unreasonable questions. Also warm and fuzzies and a sense of self righteousness for the people demanding it. — jpmc26 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@Xrylite Reputation doesn't exist on Meta sites, which is where all the disagreement over site policies happens. Regarding doubling the reputation lost from downvotes, see this related discussion from several years ago. — Cody Gray ♦ 7 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
"As with far too many events of late, this change has been accompanied by a fair amount of drama." Mandatory XKCD Also relevant XKCD Also, that statement is pretty clearly unwelcoming. — jpmc26 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
The final quoted statement doesn't demonstrate anything of the sort you're trying to make it. We've always had a policy that feedback must be constructive and respectful. It used to be very clearly stated in the Code of Conduct as "be nice"; I still stand by that expectation, and interpret the Code of Conduct accordingly. Those who know me well know that I am a firm believer in light moderation on Meta. I do not believe in censoring people's opinion, and I will only remove answers on the basis of either complete irrelevance or irredeemable offensiveness. I just gave fair warning. — Cody Gray ♦ 26 secs ago
 
10:18 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by adeneo
@scopchanov - That's not at all what I wrote? The ability to transform a problem into a minimal, complete ...etc example goes for everyone, it's a requirement. My point was, when you ask a question you're lacking knowledge, hence why you ask for help, but when you answer a question, you actually have that knowledge that someone is seeking. Now which one do you think is harder to come by, the people lacking the knowledge, or the people having the knowledge? — adeneo 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
For extra geek cred, replace the "copy+paste" step with a call to wget. — Cody Gray ♦ 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scopchanov
@adeneo, I am not intending to delete my previous comment, so it will be there for you to read it as many times as you need to inderstand it. — scopchanov 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
I’d need to authenticate wget’s request first. Meh. I’m on a Mac where I can just do pbpaste. This was the typical “I should be doing something else” distraction. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by J...
It's like the SO administration have become convinced that the downvote button is broken and needs to be tested continually... what else could explain the abysmal stream of policy and innovation that seems to fill these pages of late? — J... 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
@scopchanov FYI, most questions receiving at least one upvote do not match your description. Most questions are (as nearly as I can deduce from reading them) the result of very little thought or effort. — jpmc26 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei Levenkov
It is interesting that question complains that this particular change is not aligning with some precedent in unrelated field while all current and previous reputation changes were and are handled exactly the same way - full recalc including all historical numbers… — Alexei Levenkov 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by hek2mgl
At the end the decision makers must understand, earlier or later, that an answer is more worth than a question. And they must realize that an expert who answers someone else's question has, up to some point, the natural right to put some requirements on the standards of the question and the way it is asked. That has been the case since the early days of mankind and actually most people who ask a question will understand that. Sometimes it's just that they don't know the standard, which SO has to better communicate (since the early days) — hek2mgl 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by hek2mgl
ps: I admit that SO has gone better at communicating the standards. But it needs more and more iterations, including technology etc, etc. If I had a team of developers, I could name a couple of points that could be done to improve the experience for people who asks questions, other than bumping the rep for their question. Most people who like to ask a question don't even care about rep actually, the care about the answer. I can say that from the people I've learned at work at least. — hek2mgl 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scopchanov
@jpmc26, I agree. I am only saying, that asking a question should not be always regarded as a lack of knowledge. — scopchanov 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by hek2mgl
... but at the same time make sure that people get what they are looking for. — hek2mgl 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@CodyGray "It's now the same as with answers." Just as a side comment on a more abstact level: There is no fundamental reason why questions and answers should be treated the same. Being different things, different rules may apply. — Trilarion 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
@scopchanov I would suggest to you that you are misreading adeneo's original comment as suggesting a general lack of knowledge when it instead refers to a lack of specific knowledge. If the asker had the knowledge, they would not need to ask. The second comment instead refers to trends; the bulk of questions appear to come from users with a rather large knowledge gap. This was my own experience, in fact: as I became more knowledgeable about the tools I work with, I have nearly ceased asking questions as I've gotten much better at identifying answers myself. — jpmc26 36 secs ago
 

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