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6:00 PM
@SPArchaeologist This? Why in the world do you have a problem with this? The actions you described created problems and data inconsistencies. Warning people about that is the best thing you can do, and it even suggests an alternative. (Maybe a bit of a messy one, but probably a safer one.) You should stay away from interfaces that have a high risk of corrupting your data. And they were 100% polite about it. I don't know what the problem is.
@SPArchaeologist He didn't just not pick a great example. He decided that objectively useful content worded in a neutral manner is a bad thing because it didn't give him positive feelings. He openly stated all of that. That approach to evaluating the appropriateness of a user's words is just flat out wrong.
It's not that I don't understand the point he's making. I do understand it. The problem is that the reader's feelings should not be the end-all be-all of deciding whether content is appropriate. And indeed it's impractical to even try because readers' responses to any single message will be so widely varied as to be essentially unpredictable.
That doesn't mean we ignore all considerations about people's feelings, but that's why a standard along the lines of professional, factual, and reasonably polite (which is what we had well before the welcoming push) is a good standard. It puts limits on being a total jerk without hindering our ability to give people the best solution.
Maybe we could try to tweak the old standards to do a little bit better, but we can't just throw out challenging the question's premise like Ericson's blog does. (Which is exactly what it does. It's saying that telling someone that what they're doing is a bad idea is "condescending." Any frame challenge is going to contain a strong element of that.) That's totally against the goal of having quality content.
 
6:17 PM
i mean... it's not complicated
if you think it's unkind, abusive, whatever, cast a flag. mods will deal with it.
a "standard" doesn't need to be made, you don't need to change the way you leave comments, all that has happened is the flagging action has been made more available.
 
@KevinB The issue at hand is by what philosophy mods will make those decisions.
 
i don't see how that is an issue, at least on main.
on meta, there's an added friction due to moderators being for or against the post they're moderating comments on. Certainly more care should be taken in that scenario
but that's hardly about "unkind" or "abusive" comments
 
That's the problem here. Getting rid of Hot Meta Posts might be fine if it's done for good reasons. But it's done based on a set of reasons that come from a philosophy that discounts all other concerns for a few people's personal feelings and problems, without consideration about the wider impact on our ability to continue to succeed at the mission of providing quality content.
 
... that has nothing to do with comments?
or moderation?
 
The basis by which we decide whether something is considered rude, abusive, or otherwise inappropriate impacts every word you utter, no matter which field you type it into.
 
6:22 PM
Because a topic is "hot" or about an employee doesn't (shouldn't) change how unkind/abusive comments are dealt with.
 
I addressed that above.
 
the same philosophy they use everywhere else. Their own subjective opinion on the matter.
It doesn't matter than you or i disagree or agree with the decision
They're elected to make those decisions.
 
I'm talking about how rules are formulated, which governs moderator behavior.
 
There are no rules to formulate
if it's unkind or abusive, delete it
done
You can't rule lawyer people's feelings
 
@KevinB Defining the terms "unkind" and "abusive" are the exact matter of contention.
 
6:25 PM
That's literally impossible
 
Creating a mathematically formula or deterministic computer algorithm to classify them is, yes. Providing a useful definition that reduces the unclear cases to a very small number is not.
 
There are uncountable scenarios that may or may not be unkind, depending on what culture you are from, how you've lived, what situation you're in, how you were raised, what your political leanings are, and who knows how many other factors
What you're asking for is a rulebook on what is and isn't unkind/abusive.
 
You seem to be advocating for moderation based on whatever the moderator wants, with absolutely no standard or consistency that should guide their actions.
 
Yes
We elected them for that purpose.
 
Well, we didn't elect them for that exact purpose
 
6:30 PM
First off, not all moderators are elected. Some are appointed.
 
We elected them to be exception handlers.
 
As far as I understand it moderators are required to abide by the moderator agreement and we tend to expect/vote for mods that also grok the Theory of Moderation
 
which by definition means dealing with the things that don't neatly fit into a rulebook.
 
Secondly, "Do whatever you want," is not a workable system for moderation because then users have no idea how they are expected to behave in to order to prevent their content from being deleted or getting banned.
 
i mean, how many years has it worked?
 
6:32 PM
That being said I don't think arguing from the extremes is productive at all, and arguably not in good faith, either (e.g. "absolutely no standard or consistency"). I don't think a reasonable person would buy that interpretation at all
 
@KevinB None because we've always had some kind of standard of behavior they based their activities on.
 
no, we've had a standard of behavior that everyone has to base activities on
moderators deal with what lies outside of that
 
@KevinB No, moderators deal with applying that standard. Just like the police deal with enforcing the law.
@TylerH That's why I said, "seem." I'm honestly not sure I'm understanding Kevin's point. Because it doesn't make any sense to me at the moment.
 
i'm good at moving the topic to something completely unrelated
:D
 
@KevinB They are called upon to make decisions in difficult cases, but their decisions are still ultimately supposed to be based on applying that standard as best as they are able. It's not as simple as, "Oh, I feel like cussing people out is bad today. But maybe it will be fine tomorrow."
 
6:36 PM
The fact remains, they handle the things we can't. Deciding what is and isn't unkind/abusive is something that the people witnessing it, the ones who are the target/culprit, can't handle
there is no way to determine what someone else will find unkind/unfriendly in any way accurate enough to build a rulebook for
it's literally subjective
 
@KevinB Moderators are also only witnesses to the situation you describe. If a witness cannot make a determination, then neither can a mod.
 
you can't define it
No, the mod comes in after the fact. they weren't there when it happened.
 
@KevinB I can't define it deterministically. That doesn't mean we can't put some kind of definition that is clear in many cases and that at least sets the tone in the difficult ones.
 
Got an example definition?
 
Our old "Be Nice" policy was a useful definition.
 
6:39 PM
So is the new one
but both apparently don't have enough of a definition to satisfy you?
 
No. The values underpinning the new CoC and welcoming push are detrimental to SO's main goal.
 
the new one is more defined than the old one. More specific. and yet it still doesn't cover everything that could ever be considered unkind
No, they aren't. The new CoC and welcoming push didn't change any rules, it didn't change what is and isn't unkind, it didn't enforce a policy stating we must include a bunch of fluff garbage in our comments.
That's simply someone else's interpretation of it
 
@KevinB I don't know what your point is. My point has nothing to do with a lack of clarity, only an acknowledgement that no definition is going to be fully perfect and that there might have been room for improvement in the old one. My point was that the foundational values SO is basing policy on now are harmful to SO's primary purpose.
 
How is it harmful?
and how is it different from 6 years ago?
 
By prioritizing people's feelings over providing the best information.
 
6:43 PM
Today, if you flag a comment that is unkind, it will likely be deleted.
6 years ago, if you flagged a comment that was unkind, it would have likely been deleted.
All that changed is the flagging feature was reinforced visually.
 
You're using a rhetorical trick because my entire argument rests on the fact that SO the company is trying to use a different definition of unkind now.
 
but they aren't!
 
@KevinB yeah, the new "thanks for being offended" banner
 
hateful, condescending, non-constructive comments have always been a problem that was resolved with flagging
 
@KevinB They deleted a comment for providing a frame challenge and an alternative solution. Maybe it should have been an answer, but it certainly wouldn't have been considered unkind until the past year or so.
 
6:45 PM
perhaps it was considered "no longer needed"
the comment flags themselves were different a while back
 
@AndrasDeak Except the person who deleted it acknowledged the value of the content it provided and only deleted it because they deemed it unkind.
 
I see
 
If you want to discuss an individual case, lets do that, because trying to act like an individual case ruins an entire philosophy on the be nice policy isn't all that useful.
 
yeah, we have George Stocker doing things one way and I'm still not convinced there's any kind of new consensus among mods, so I'm a bit suspicious of anecdotal evidence these days
 
I disagree with deletion of discussion oriented comments that aren't an insult.
 
6:47 PM
@AndrasDeak It isn't mods that concern me. It's employees, who are in a position to do far more damage.
 
that doesn't have anything to do with the be nice policy
 
@jpmc26 even more true then. Mods communicate and try to be consistent. Employees don't seem to do either.
 
instead, it's a policy that has always existed for comments, it's just a policy that has been rarely ever enforced on meta
 
from some of the responses around this whole hot meta saga it seems to me that often "the company", especially its meta-facing side, is akin to a headless chicken running around
 
comments aren't for discussion, they're for requesting clarification. Meta is the exception to that rule because meta is for discussion
that however doesn't give you free rein to insult people or be condescending toward people.
 
6:50 PM
@KevinB I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here (my fault, I haven't read the whole transcript) but trying to hone in on the X in an XY problem (which is what jpmc26's anecdote sounded like) is definitely fair game for comments
and yes, I agree, you can tell OP they're wrong or misguided without being hurtful
but the distinction (technical correctness vs civility) was mushed from day 1 the way Jay Hanlon kicked off the "welcome wagon"
 
@AndrasDeak Y'all are kinda turning us into a boogeyman without asking for info. What are you concerned about? Comments disappearing?
 
@Catija nah, I'm just responding to the discussion of the others, ask them. My only point there was that anecdotal evidence of technical comments being deleted for being unfriendly does not prove policy change.
 
I don't think we were discussing employee actions
well, aside from the creation of blog posts/be nice policies i guess
 
@AndrasDeak Then look at actions. What philosophy has been used to justify actual changes to the site, then? What is the direction of those changes?
 
@SaraChipps Okay...that was a lot longer than I had hoped it'd be since one errand turned into two, two errands turned into foot surgery...but anyway, I think I've had enough time to at least come to terms with the rationale for the removal and what has ensued. I think there's been plenty of other comments on this matter by now but since chat is a beckoning TL;DR list for me at this point (and I truly don't have a lot of time), I'll just keep this focused to the thing I promised to deliver.
 
6:57 PM
@jpmc26 Why do you need philosophy? Plus see my earlier remarks about headless chickens.
 
In short: I'm paralyzed. You don't like the feedback we're giving you and staff are impacted in some way by the feedback we give them. This is a lose-lose for us all.
 
Is the paralysis related to the foot surgery?
 
@AndrasDeak Nah, the foot's actually moving just fine :D
 
if it's a literal surgery: get well soon :)
 
@KevinB I'll add that it's for discussion about the content of the post specifically. I see a lot of discussion, particularly on questions that really should be in an answer ... and I'm guilty of it, too... we've forgotten that answers are king and leave comments everywhere instead. Comment threads are messy. At least help divide up the discussion by putting big thoughts in an answer.
 
6:58 PM
It was a literal surgery; thanks :)
 
ouch!
 
@AndrasDeak Since everything everyone ever does is based on a philosophy, on a set of values, I would pose the reverse question: why do you think we don't? Certainly any kind of policy must be based on something. As for "headless chickens," my comment literally replied to that: look at actions and direction.
 
@jpmc26 well, my go-to philosophy guess with corporations is "maximize profit". Do you see a price tag on community involvement? Neither do I.
 
Anywho, not sure where to go from here. Being told you don't want to interact with us because we scare you guys is almost a conversation killer. Nothing hurts more than being told you sound or act mean when there's still this air of teamwork about.
5
Maybe the message was wrong. Maybe I received it wrong. But I've lived a life of being somewhat excluded for the manner in which I speak, act or think. It wasn't your intention to reinvoke those images, but that's what happened.
Anyway...come up with some rules on how we need to engage you. We'll talk if you'll listen. I lack the patience to walk on eggshells these days.
5
 
@AndrasDeak I don't see a price tag on being perceived as nice, either.
 
7:01 PM
@jpmc26 I do. Need to placate twitter, because twitter is PR and PR is investment.
 
@AndrasDeak Do you think the conflict with their own user base is good PR?
 
@jpmc26 we're not "the userbase" to them. We are "a vocal and toxic minority". The happiness of the "0.015%" (or so) is irrelevant in PR.
 
you mean the 0.0155% of the userbase?
 
What are you going to do, rally your 20k twitter followers to publicly rebel against SO? Me neither.
 
@Makoto, I just want to say, regardless of where I've interacted with you on the network, you're always thoughtful and respectful, even when we fail. I appreciate that and I hope that we can find the right way to move through this. I'm literally on record - it's in the right sidebar - saying how much I love meta. I believe in it and the people who participate there.
2
 
7:04 PM
@AndrasDeak Do you really think 20k users on Twitter are the people who need to be placated? Or are they a tiny, tiny minority of people who are more interested in denigrating SO anyway?
 
@jpmc26 we're not talking about me. We're talking about what the company thinks.
in particular, the board of directors or shareholders or whatever
Imagine you're a dude (or dudette) in a suit, try to decide whether to make "a few angry nerds" or "the cutting-edge of social rights movements" happy
(doing both is somehow off the table)
 
@AndrasDeak Right, so why would the company think a tiny minority of people on Twitter who don't want anything to do with SO regardless of how nice we are are more important than a minority of users already on their platform who provide a significant chunk of the content that makes them valuable to anyone?
 
@jpmc26 I already told you: PR
 
@Catija Yeah, I love it too. This is why it hurts so bad.
 
Because someone else will step up to the plate to provide that chunk of content.
 
7:07 PM
The people who complain about site quality (i.e. us) don't have leverage in the modern political sense.
 
@AndrasDeak How much exposure did this influential Twitter minority even have before SO staff pointed them out?
 
There's no shortage of people out there who want to help other people
a lot
 
@jpmc26 I have no idea about how these things work, to be honest. I only see the aftermath.
 
but lets not get into that
 
And of course I have no access to the minds of any people making big decisions at SO, so I'm merely guessing.
 
7:09 PM
@KevinB Sure. Quora and Yahoo Answers are the old go to examples of that. But SO differentiated itself and dominated the market by having quality control in place.
 
yes, which has resulted in stagnant growth as the needs of new developers changed.
 
@jpmc26 but that was a site for professional and enthusiast programmers :P
Now "[w]e <3 people who code. We build products that empower developers and connect them to solutions that enable productivity, growth, and discovery."
 
the two sides can co-exist
many of the upcoming changes are supposed to be moving in that direction
Aimed at reducing the friction between curators and people asking/answering questions.
I'm willing to wait and see, but i'm not all that optimistic
 
@AndrasDeak Ostensibly, it still is.
 
@KevinB I love "friction" in this context, because it's a mutual force
trying to reduce friction for so-called "new users" alone will not be sustainable
 
7:12 PM
yes. it's a conflict between groups of people. You've got people who want to only leave the best of the best content on the site, and then the people who just want to learn/share knowledge.
 
@KevinB How have the "needs of new developers changed"?
 
I don't know
 
@jpmc26 from what I can tell, these days people forget to learn a language before trying to use it :P
 
@KevinB Then how can you make that assertion?
 
What i do know is they seem to differ from the way I learned to code quite drastically
 
7:13 PM
> You guys are much more intelligent than google
hence asking you
actual quote from chat earlier today ^
 
Why would they not take advantage of this huge resource of knowledge?
 
@AndrasDeak See, I don't call that a "need." The reality of learning to write code has not changed.
 
This resource didn't exist when i was learning
i was lucky to even find a forum
 
SO was here when I started learning. I didn't use them, and I'm probably a better programmer for it because I actually taught myself something.
thinks Well, I guess not when I started. But not long after.
The process of learning hasn't changed though. It still boils down to try stuff, see what happens, try to learn about terms and concepts you don't know, and slowly build up a mental model based on what you see.
@KevinB No, you have people who want to build a site with accessible info so people can find it easily. E.g., so Google will index it and present it when people look.
 
who?
i mean, that's obviously something that the company has to do to survive, i fail to see how that's relevant
 
7:19 PM
@KevinB It's relevant because I've noticed a significant drop in Google suggesting SO results.
And I'm quite certain that has nothing to do with how "mean" the site is.
 
there's no causation there
That very well could have simply been because people stopped clicking the links, but it's more likely something else, like oversatuation/duplication.
 
@KevinB You don't think the drop in SO's content quality is affecting its Google rankings?
 
All of which are problems that can be solved
 
@KevinB "oversatuation/duplication" is one of the issues curators try to handle.
 
Yes
but it's two pronged
If a user is too scared to even ask the future great questions that will drive traffic, what good is curation?
 
7:22 PM
@KevinB Many users don't need to ask a question because they can read what's already there. In fact, the bulk of SO's traffic comes from non-participants.
 
Yes
but that only functions, if said questions are asked
 
And said questions have been asked.
 
there are more unasked questions than there are asked ones
 
Otherwise they wouldn't be there for all those people to find and visit and read?
@KevinB That just sounds like sophistry. Surely you're not suggesting SO should try to host every question that could ever be asked.
 
So, here's the point i'm trying to make.
We can have a library of useful questions, that we let google index, and have it co-exist with questions that don't rise to that level. Currently everything is in the same pot... and curation is a constant battle against people just trying to help people.
 
7:25 PM
@Makoto We've failed in a few ways to help staff be successful... for example, making it possible to identify us without the staff page or diamonds. So, sometimes someone answers a support request or bug report and gets responses from people that doubts the correctness of the answer... but, by the same token, how many random, 1-rep people are just posting answers to bugs on meta?
I can only assume that it's become so rare, y'all can't possibly imagine that we're actually responding to questions. 😉
 
Why should we prevent people from sharing knowledge/helping people, if there's an audience that wants that? it doesn't have to be in direct conflict with the audience that wants a well defined library of useful posts.
 
@KevinB If SO were actually saying that, we'd have far less conflict. But that isn't what they've been saying. For example, what does racial diversity have to do with that? Because that's been a major theme of the welcoming push.
 
I don't see what the welcoming push has to do with this
 
The welcoming push represents the direction the company is pushing the site in. It's the primarily influence one everything they've done for a year.
 
No, the welcoming push represents an initiative to get people flagging comments that should have been being flagged all along
It was not a push to get people to stop curating
 
7:30 PM
@jpmc26 The welcoming push is good. SO could thrive welcomingly. It's the implementation that sucks.
 
it is unfortunate that people used it as a bat to clobber people who disagreed with them
 
low-key decreeing objective feedback the asker doesn't like unwelcoming is the issue
 
@KevinB It's difficult for the two to coexist, because people able to answer the tough questions get tired looking through a bunch of one-off write my code for me type questions.
 
eh, there will always be new people willing to answer the tough questions if we let them become such
 
@KevinB Go read Ericson's blog. It goes far, far beyond that. And meanwhile, we can't even get blatant violations of the CoC deleted because they target a particular political group.
 
7:31 PM
They'd have to educate the actual rude users how not to be rude while laying down very strict objective requirements for the "new" people (/help seekers/whatevers) for it to work right.
 
Not sure how being welcoming gets translated into "stop closing questions".
 
^
 
@Catija But it does
 
@Catija Because moderation is fundamentally unwelcoming. Even Sara's blog admits that.
 
by people with an agenda
 
7:32 PM
The responses on Sara's blog post are pretty clear that people don't like that
 
@Catija the community was screaming to get official clarification after The Welcoming Blog Post. I'm not sure we ever got one (I probably haven't seen one)
 
@Catija Moderation is literally equivalent to the statement, "Behave according to our standards or leave." It's even backed up by the ability to ban users if they don't. Making "welcoming" the highest priority necessarily means deprioritizing moderation.
 
@Catija It's because most of the complaining about SO that is visible to us consists of people complaining about downvotes and questions closing, rather than people complaining about comments or some such. Thus, we tend to naturally assume that the company is aiming in that direction. Especially when plenty of new people use the welcoming initiative as a bludgeon to hit curators with whenever we moderate.
 
"giving a grilled poop sandwich" about what we accept as answers is moderation
 
Being welcoming means helping users whose questions get closed understand what that means and how to get past that. The current ux is pretty crummy at that.
 
7:35 PM
@jpmc26 setting the horrible term of "welcoming" aside, thinking along "be nice", I still claim it could be done in harmony with moderation. But we haven't been led down that path.
 
...then we have to grapple with the prospect of users wanting a comment for why their incomplete question was downvoted. We just don't have the stamina to do that for everyone.
 
@Makoto well often comments are unwelcoming, so...ignore and close the tab
 
that's easy tho... the new flag visiblity made it easier than ever to flag no longer needed comments.
 
I've definitely cut back on downvote-explanatory comments since the welcoming push
(and I am happier)
 
same
 
7:37 PM
Yeah, commentating on downvotes isn't a good use of time
 
which is hilariously the opposite of the intended effect
 
the reality is, that's better for everyone
 
Just paints a bigger target on you
 
@AndrasDeak I tend to agree. If the entire thing had, from the beginning, been more along the lines of, "Okay, we need to 1. Improve our PR about our site's model. 2. Try to make our Be Nice policy a little better. 3. Maybe implement something to stop this stuff from being posted in the first place because it still affects people," I probably wouldn't be upset at all.
 
@Makoto I usually only do that if they ask. Answers, anyway.
 
7:37 PM
Which is why we're working on improving question asking. If we can help people succeed before they post a bad question... or, heck, find the question that already exists... that's less work for curators.
 
I especially don't do it if they ask for it
 
@AndrasDeak No, not even then
 
heck no
that's the worst time to reply
 
But instead it was about something more how our system is systemically prejudiced and drives minorities away with meanness. Now it's about how moderating content makes people feel bad (and in some extreme cases that are well beyond our control, causes panic attacks or something). Neither of those value systems is compatible with what SO, the site and the community, was built to achieve.
 
@Catija Maybe that's the true angst. The attempted solutions are more towards helping users ask a good question, when the reality may be closer to all of the "good" questions have been asked, and there's no good way to expose the good answers.
 
7:40 PM
if they're asking "why the downvote" regardless of how written, they clearly see no wrong with their post and (generally) won't agree with your reasoning. there are exceptions, such as if there's something obviously incorrect, but that doesn't have to be tied to the downvote.
 
So what we get now is more questions with answers which make the value of the existing information a lot less, since it's now being buried underneath other questions and answers and dominated by SEO at this point.
 
I think simply raising the bar on what is and isn't indexed would be a good start
 
@Catija And I appreciate that. But it's couched in the entire history of the past year. It feels more like there's a small, not-very-influential faction of SO's staff that still believes in SO's original mission, and that the people actually in control have decided to try to throw us a bone when faced with this massive conflict. I don't see any sort of rescinding of the values espoused over that time, or any mention of miscommunicating. All I see coming from staff about those is doubling down.
 
I have
though... i'm not going to digging for it
 
There was a great study put out a couple of months ago about how a site is structured can impact who chooses to use it. There's real differences in what people look for in a site, and the structure of SE tends to attract some and put others off. The thing I struggle with is that I don't really think the experience is great for... lots of people. Some groups may be disproportionately impacted but it's not like the mechanics are otherwise perfect.
My husband is a programmer. I've talked with his colleagues and everyone uses SO... but only one of them actually has an account with any rep. Most don't even have an account.
I don't think we're running out of questions. New technology, languages, tools, etc are coming out all the time and we have lots of interesting questions that don't have answers. But it's hard and kinda scary. My husband spent an hour writing an answer and never posted it because he was afraid of getting negative feedback.
2
It's possible that someone could spend that long on an answer and still do poorly... but it's unlikely. And, so, we're that much poorer.
To be fair, my husband is really conflict-averse... but he's an excellent developer. We focus so much on questions but we're potentially losing answers, too... possibly more.
 
8:04 PM
@Catija Not to hijack your message, but I don't suppose you know or can comment on whether "improved mod tools for comment migration" or something aimed at assuaging the current comment issue is anywhere on the docket for the Team Formerly Known as DAG? Just out of curiosity.
E.g. even something like meta.stackexchange.com/a/311795/253521
 
We're definitely discussing what we can do differently about comments, particularly on questions because they get precedence over answers. It's so common that a question is answered (sometimes directly but often indirectly for example "you're not quite understanding this, here's the actual info you need") in the comments but not in the answers.
 
I mean, i'm guilty of that, but it's for a reason
 
We have something like 900k unanswered, 0-score questions with >1 comments. How many of those do you think might need to have a comment fleshed out into an answer? Try looking through a few if you have some time. I'm curious to know.
That's 1/20th of all undeleted questions on the site.
@KevinB take me through it. I'm driving home, so take your time.
 
I'm just sick and tired of coming across people who won't try, who don't appear to be putting forth any effort, who upon receiving guidance will say "Just write it for me."
i refuse to provide answers to such cases, but i can't determine if it is such a case without first engaging with them
If they're willing to take an additional debugging step or two, are responsive, positive, i'll answer.
 
8:30 PM
@KevinB I can understand that. I appreciate that you're trying to help. So, the cases sound like times the asker is unwilling to help you help them. I'm glad that you don't expend more energy than you're willing to convince them to do better.
 
8:48 PM
I feel as though no matter how we change the UX or get veteran users to be nice, new users will always feel unwelcomed.
This is because we hold our questions to high standards
 
what if we didn't?
O.o
 
That's part of the argument
 
As it is, low quality posts get answered and stay around all the time.
It's certainly making searching harder
 
The veteran users (0.015%) want to keep the standards
 
but... we could just alter indexing/search such that it ignores anything with less than x score
 
8:49 PM
But the 99.975% and the company/network wants to lower the standards
Be right back
You could make that a feature request
 
basically, there's a lot of levers that can be pulled, we need to get through this first iteration of ui changes first.
or something like that
 
yeah
@KevinB people looking to answer questions would be harmed
not harmec
*harmed
 
@Catija and how many had an aged-away close vote...?
 
but it would be harder to find good questions
 
@AndrasDeak Apparently (according to the numbers we checked recently) only 10% of close votes age away?
 
8:54 PM
not any harder than it is now though, right?
 
I bet a lot of those must be typo-grade "oh, it's solved now" questions that don't need answers
 
@KevinB True
 
@Catija that's a pleasant surprise
 
good questions are very hard to identify
 
But... if the question's over a year old and has zero score and one or fewer comments... it'd be deleted anyway... so, in @KevinB's position, it might be worth deleting the first comment... then there'd (potentially) be fewer of them after a year.
 
8:55 PM
people are notoriously bad at writing titles and opening paragraphs
 
@MilkyWay90 you can edit/delete messages in chat for 2 minutes
 
@AndrasDeak I know, I was eating food at that time so I could only use a hand
It would be simpler to just post "*harmed"
 
I just feel like it would be better to answer questions where you provide information, give alternative solutions, etc, not just "you missed a semicolon"
 
@MilkyWay90 those need close votes as typo, not answers
 
8:57 PM
@AndrasDeak I'm talking about if we lower our standards
 

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