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05:56
How do I vote in the moderator election?
Mar 5 at 19:01, by Undo
You cannot vote yet. Voting will start on March 11 at 20:00 UTC
 
2 hours later…
user3956566
07:28
@HimanshuPoddar go here stackoverflow.com/election/11 when voting opens and keep an eye out, as it will go through two phases.
10:02
if any moderators are seeing this I would like to bring an important issue which I want you people to look after. Recently I was banned from SO, the reason stated by SO or the moderators were that I tried to artificially inflate my upvotes. Now let me tell you the story, actually I have a rival in my college he know this fact about how the SO algorithm identifies those people who artificially inflate the upvotes. So what he did was he began upvoting my answers from his account daily.
I was daily getting some reputation on SO. someday een 40-50. I did not know about this then. But SO bots thought that daily from the same account I am getting upvotes, so I must be artificially increasing my reputation and hence the moderators blocked me for one month. I even told the moderators about this story but no one believed me. I hope someone will look onto this issue and help us out with this.
Moderators usually delete accounts and contact you if and only if they are 100% sure that it is an alternate account. You can contact Stack Exchange directly, if you want to still pursue the issue.
@HimanshuPoddar This room is not an appropriate place to discuss that. If you have an issue with the way a moderator handled something, you can contact the company directly.
10:21
Regardless of the outcome, I am really grateful for the group we had nominate this election, and wish everyone the best. Whoever is elected will have big shoes to fill, and I am confident that whoever it is will rise to the challenge. Thanks to everyone who nominated, and good luck in the primaries and election to come!
11:03
I thought you are supposed to spread rumors and hearsay about the candidates....
Zoe
Zoe
11:14
@rene Only in America. :p
whispers
@Zoe Nah, that sheet's everywhere.
Zoe
Zoe
Yeah, I know. Just seems worse there (at least from various media coverage of stuff). But I haven't checked with every single country either, so /shrug
It's really just the media coverage that makes it seem that way.
12:16
@HimanshuPoddar Primary voting begins tomorrow
12:53
Guyz listen I don't know any of the people who has stood up for the moderator election. So how do I decide whom to vote. Where can I find the contribution of candidates to this websites so that I can decide whom to vote?
@HimanshuPoddar By clicking on the name below the nomination.
Zoe
Zoe
13:06
@HimanshuPoddar depends on what you're looking for.
You can see all the public stuff by clicking on their name (to see the profile, 1), including questions and answers. There's also a shortcut to the meta profile (3) and main-site reviews (2). Pic for reference
Aside the site contributions themselves, you might also be interested in the various answers + other discussions
There's also comments with a bunch stuff that may or may not be relevant (some is, some is not.)
 
4 hours later…
17:04
The final phase of the election is single transferable vote, right? So, if my 1st choice were to be elected in the first round, for example, my ballot "paper" would then be out of play and my 2nd and 3rd choices become irrelevant as my vote is "spent"?
whereas if my 1st choice were eliminated in the first round, my vote would transfer to choice #2
if someone understands something about those voting rules, well, good for them 😀 but yes, you have 1 vote, with 3 choices.
17:32
Yep, I get the impression this is not widely understood :)
Simple rule: if you want someone to be elected, vote for them. Negation of this rule also applies.
@StephenKennedy Your vote will be transferred of a fraction of its value when the candidate is eliminated or elected.
according to this simple formula: v = sin(a) + 0.45*cos(b) + sqrt(c) - 0.72*pi
eek. It's even more complicated than standard STV!
@StephenKennedy You can find an explanation of Meek STV here.
17:39
@Stephen what do you expect for a 70-million worth development website?
@Jean-FrançoisFabre idk but if they'd come to me for a quote I'd have done it for 20 million :)
lol
I would have taken the cash and run :)
17:53
^ "standard STV" apparently doesn't exist btw. My memory from student politics quite a few years ago is evidently hazy :/
That was too easy, so it had to go.
what I remember of the student union election system was that one could if so desired state a preference for each and every candidate. In addition there was a procedural 'candidate' called RON - "Reopen Nominations". So, if for example, there were 7 candidates and I liked 5, I would order those 5 in preference and put RON at number 6. If RON were to be "elected" that position would remain unfilled and another election would be called.
Zoe
Zoe
18:44
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Weeell.... That used to be the case up until '15, then they changed the formula, but they changed it again for this years election, and it's now v = sqrt(sin(a))/(sqrt(42)) + (441, 911)*pi^2 + cos(b) * mc^2 - 1/(cos(c) + c^2) :p
@Zoe that makes more sense like that.
Zoe
Zoe
Ikr! It's a lot better and more accurate too.
@Zoe No, that's the Pokemon capture rate formula.
Zoe
Zoe
@MadaraUchiha I think you're confusing it with the very similar pcr = sqrt(sin(a))/(sqrt(42)) + (441, 911)*pi^2 + cos(b) * micAirflow^2 - 1/(cos(c) + c^2)
18:52
But where's the mash A and B for more chance in there
Zoe
Zoe
I just remember blowing at the mic like that would make a difference ^^" (Nintendo DS though, it was around '08-'09 or something)
@MadaraUchiha Damn O_o
I actually wonder if you can affect the PRNG by mashing the buttons at just the right times, or blowing into the mic
Where do random numbers come from on GBC hardware?
I was hoping someone would post that
Zoe
Zoe
:D
19:00
I reckon using sine & cosine in probablity formulas seems wrong.
Zoe
Zoe
@Jean-FrançoisFabre It's not wrong! We clearly need the angle between the voters and the server when processing the importance of votes!!
okay then :)
Zoe
Zoe
;)
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Eh, depends
You can get from f(x) = sin(x) to a function that outputs stuff in [0, 1]
Zoe
Zoe
I'm surprised vectors haven't been further implemented yet though... :p
19:04
@MadaraUchiha by rounding to nearest integer... but that's expensive.
Zoe
Zoe
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Math.roof(sin(x)); // Guaranteed to be fair
I like f(x) = 1/1 + (e**-x) though
math freaks! at least.
You called? :)
Now we're complete.
Nonsensical math formulas are better than "Where can I vote ?"
Zoe
Zoe
19:08
@MadaraUchiha What about f(t)=((1/2)*t^2, e**(-t))
Unrelated, does anyone know where I can vote?
you asked for that one ;)
@Zoe What does the comma operator mean there?
Zoe
Zoe
A vector-valued function, also referred to as a vector function, is a mathematical function of one or more variables whose range is a set of multidimensional vectors or infinite-dimensional vectors. The input of a vector-valued function could be a scalar or a vector (that is, the dimension of the domain could be 1 or greater than 1); the dimension of the domain is not defined by the dimension of the range. == Example: helix == A common example of a vector-valued function is one that depends on a single real number parameter t, often representing time, producing a vector v(t) as the result. In...
It's a curve in R^2.
I'm just now taking a ML course on coursera together with my team lead
19:10
Machine Learning
Implemented a neural network from scratch yesterday 😃
Zoe
Zoe
ML is really interesting ^^
Due this year for me.
I'm sure the python part won't be too much of an issue :)
Zoe
Zoe
@MadaraUchiha From scratch as in without frameworks? O_o
In octave
I'm impressed as I don't even know what a neural network is.
19:11
So got a pretty strong math stdlib (including matrix multiplication operators)
But no tensorflow or something like that, no.
Zoe
Zoe
That's pretty cool :D
I saw this one implementation from scratch in C++, but it seems a lot harder than with the frameworks
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Machine Learning is basically code that learn to perform a task without hueristics (as in, in trying to figure out spam, I don't code things like if (body.contains('viagra')) { setSpam(true); }
with C++ it's already a challenge to create a dictionary and use it...
I can't wait for my training. I cannot self-train, as I would lack time & motivation, I need a kick.
Zoe
Zoe
I currently prefer C++ over Java, at least on the meta level
I love C++, but my coworkers have a hard time understanding my code sometimes :)
19:14
C++ has its pros and cons. :)
So instead, what I will do is pick a few features (for example, not so great features would be the length of the body and length of the subject), and examine a sample of a few thousands of emails, and try to see how much weight those features of an email have in determining whether an email is spam or not
Zoe
Zoe
At least licensing hell isn't an item on the cons :]
I'm out for a little while. Later o/
The code you'd write will try to find some multipliers of the length of the body and the length of the subject, where if I give it any new email, it will predict relatively accurately whether or not it's spam.
19:16
I already developped heuristics & tests like this, it's nice when it's properly tuned so it saves a lot of manual work. Spam detection is a science, maybe even an art.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre std::unordered_map is not that hard to use, is it?
@BaummitAugen nope, it's just that I didn't even know that it existed. Always used map, until I needed hashing for better speed.
(or ordering wasn't available)
function probabilityOfSpam(lengthOfBody, lengthOfSubject) {
  return lengthOfBody * someParameterFromTraining + lengthOfSubject * someOtherParameterFromTraining;
}

function isSpam(email) {
  return probabilityOfSpam(email.bodyLength, email.lengthOfSubject) > .5;
}
I have a lot of XP in C++, but mostly 2003 standard. I'm beginning to comprehend some nice C++11 features, but C++14 is beyond me ATM.
getting someParameterFromTraining and someOtherParameterFromTraining is the tricky part.
19:18
(almost have the C++ silver I don't know how)
Ah well.
C++ is not language that lends itself to being learned "on the fly" IMO.
@MadaraUchiha that looks interesting. And beat the spammers with a machine is fun.
@BaummitAugen specially when autocompletion doesn't work in editors :)
A neural network is even stronger in that you don't need to pick the features from the email, you can simply encode the entire email as a long vector (say, all of the ascii codes of all the characters in the subject + email), and write code to figure out on its own which of the features are the most significant.
Always ends with people using new[] and writing huge loops...
19:19
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Okay, that is not the language's fault.
I (almost) never use new.
The neural network we built in our homework assignment was used to identify handwritten digits from 20x20 images
'twas pretty neat :D
That's way beyond me, but looks good. ATM I don't have to do this at work, but this may change quickly.
(20x20 images = 400 pixels, so 400 of these pixel1 * someWeight + pixel2 * someOtherWeight....)
@Jean-FrançoisFabre I have 60% of bronze, only ever used it to build llvm/clang.
19:22
@BaummitAugen do you have a clang installation on windows that doesn't require Visual C++ or community?
@Jean-FrançoisFabre You can use new, just don't do new[] and avoid owning raw pointers, i.e. no naked new.
yes. new for factories only. For the rest std::vector does the job.
And 99% of C-like UB is gone.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Haven't used Windows in years, sorry.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Until someone come around and doesn't cast to unsigned char before calling toupper and friends.
Happens all the time in code I read.
19:27
I've wrote all the middleware/strings/file part for the current project. when my colleagues google on SO for C++ they don't understand anything and/or they do the wrong method. You cannot learn a language by asking questions :)
So they just have to use my custom framework and surprise: it works.
At some point one guy was disappointed because "everything was already done" (he didn't know C++ too much, I supposed he just wanted to "build" something new at the expense of the project)
Hell starts when you contract the middleware to bozos thinking that it's not functional code so not important.
Q: What's your take on utilizing the SE API to help aid moderation?
A: well I don't know the SE API at all if that's what you're asking. You mean SEDE?
well, I certainly don't have clue.
> Q: You mean SEDE?
A: No, the api.stackexchange.com
Hmm, SEDE's a nice question for some other day ...
@Jean, check it out api.stackexchange.com/docs
I am using the StackExchange websocket to create an active questions list. You can find the list here
19:35
@BhargavRao that looks neat.
json is my friend.
json is my city
json saved my life
If rm -rf /json/ or del C:\json` happens, the following will happen. throw "JSON is not defined"`
19:38
I don't care, I'm using windows, we don't have "rm" or even "/"
Zoe
Zoe
20:02
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Powershell.
Although /path/ points to the root of the active drive, so kinda
@Zoe Does powershell have rm?
Zoe
Zoe
I think so
either that or my MinGW/Cygwin/native Windows binary path mixing has gotten out of hand xD
Wandows :(
What wandows @MadaraUchiha?
What wandows?????
I tend to avoid any kind of shell on Windows. my .bat files just launch .py files. Period.
20:19
.bat? Are you still on MS DOS 1.0?
Zoe
Zoe
@rene batch files are still the standard :/
@smileycreations15 mocking version of Windows
Just rename to .cmd and leap into the future ...
Zoe
Zoe
What's the difference?
None
@rene Rename into .sh and jump into UNIX/Linux
Zoe
Zoe
20:20
@smileycreations15 rename into .sh and get horrible exceptions on Windows because that absolutely horrible OS doesn't do .sh by default.
@Zoe waffles
depends on which handler got attached to .sh
Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy Added by default.
@Zoe install linux and try again running the script with sh scriptname.sh on the terminal
Zoe
Zoe
I can run .sh with Cygwin, MinGW, or Git Bash, but meh
20:22
debian.exe not found
brb need 2 weeks to sort out display drivers and other problems
@rene I didn't know that .bat was outdated
Zoe
Zoe
@smileycreations15 Give me a distro that doesn't overwrite the other bootloaders, isn't a part of the Windows Linux Subsystem, and works with the graphics drivers
Knowing Windows ensures lot of rep forever on SO, between the \r the `\`, the drives, the UNC crap, the unhelpful messages...
@Zoe Use Ubuntu (you will be prompted to which os to boot. Then after you selected it will boot normally.)
Zoe
Zoe
20:24
@smileycreations15 that doesn't overwrite the other bootloaders
Yeah, Zoe use Ubuntu. Google it for more info (Google is a search engine).
Zoe
Zoe
I installed Ubuntu once. It overwrite the bootloaders and I couldn't use graphics drivers. I talked to someone else about it a while ago, and i t's not supposed to do that, so I'd rather not go through that again.
I was being facetious
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or maybe "too many messages completely unrelated to the election"
20:32
I demand to to converse with candidates, discuss moderator traits, etc.!
Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy 42.
@StephenKennedy Half of them are here, please, converse.
@Zoe That's the result of the voting formula you posted earlier. I wouldn't class it as "conversation".
@MadaraUchiha Got any topics?
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Here is the new one.
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Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy wait, that can't be!
I've proven 42 is the answer?! :p
20:35
What do you think of the direction Stack Overflow (the site and the company) has been taking ever since The Welcoming
@MadaraUchiha that's an awesome question.
At first, everyone feared the Welcoming Wagon. Some even thought that SOCVR was going to be closed (I wasn't so dramatic...). Everyone mocked the welcoming style, including me (using the waving hand as avatar for a while)
But I must admit that it forces everyone to be nice. Which doesn't mean we don't downvote & close, but it really cuts the snark to a minimum.
Zoe
Zoe
@MadaraUchiha Mainly towards a more welcoming site, by attempting to reduce the amount of unwelcoming and/or offensive comments (which I'm under the impression is the main area of concern). The update to comment flags and the CoC at least demonstrates that. Whether it has worked or not is a separate concern.
That doesn't mean that we don't get to laugh in comments sometimes, but not at the expense of unexperienced users. So it was positive, beyond my expectations.
Now the downside: some clowns accuse you of being unwelcoming when you don't do their homework.
A link to a funny conversation: click here to open
I'll admit that personally, I wasn't very happy with the direction and implications of the blog post.
Zoe
Zoe
20:40
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Speaking of users, after the welcoming it seems like a bunch of users take negative reception of a question or answer more personally (and/or as proof SE is toxic). It seems like downvotes trigger the "this site is so unwelcoming" comments more now
As though there haven't been years upon years of meta posts begging for better tools to help newbies make better questions
And now, 5 years later, the community is being told they aren't kind enough
The main issue IMHO was really snarky comments. I don't care about the rest. That alone was worth saying somethng. I'm ignoring other things that SO blog or whatever says.
I was never for snark or stinginess in comments, but I always thought that the solution wouldn't be through governing the outcome, but solving the underlying issue (hundreds upon hundreds of crap posts a day)
Granted: people flag a lot of okay comments as R/A / unfriendly.
Zoe
Zoe
Stuff in answers can be edited out and is considerably easier to notice, but comments can fly right past the radar of even invested moderators (diamond and otherwise)
20:43
@MadaraUchiha automatic detection / or preventing posting code as images would be a top priority, yes.
Also, I was really unhappy with the implication that Stack Overflow was particularly unwelcoming for minority groups
@MadaraUchiha What is a minority group?
that would avoid some (justified) snark sometimes. When OP takes a picture of their CRT screen with their phone, this is going too far.
Zoe
Zoe
@smileycreations15 A group of people there are few of within a larger group.
@MadaraUchiha that's a classic strategy. Accuse others of racism when the problem is just that the posts are bad.
"you're downvoting me because I'm black/white/red/whatever" ...
20:44
Especially when it's generally not easy to figure out a person's gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation/identity from one's display picture and name.
@MadaraUchiha Yes, I was unhappy with that implication (it seemed to me that if ppl here were rude they were rude to everyone and anyone). But of course, I don't get to see what you moderators do.
I would close the Dalaï Lama questions if they were bad.
Also, what I was missing from that post were the usual numeric evidence that usually comes with a well-thought out meta-post.
(having said that, I see a fair bit of flaggable material in SOBotics and racist/sexist/homophobic comments seem rare)
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Harsh, but fair :)
It's a bit of a fragile issue when we're talking about people's feelings
20:47
How can I tell others about a poll about the moderator election?
Zoe
Zoe
@Jean-FrançoisFabre That's something a lot of people don't seem to think we do. That's one of the backing reasons behind it I think. SO has always moderated content and not people (although revenge downvoting and voting circles show there are periodic exceptions)
If a minority group doesn't feel welcome because of the language used, even if that language can't be considered offensive by normal measurements, you can't really address the problem.
My personal strategy on bad questions (unless it's blatant homework dump with no research), is to close with duplicate/too broad/whatever, but also comment to help OP figuring out the particular case. I found out people react very positively with personalized comments. And the question is roombaed so it doesn't pollute the site for long.
It's not that that minority group is being targeted, mind you. It's that the general atmosphere and "vibes" of the group are off-putting for them.
How can I tell others about a poll about the moderator election? (waiting for an answer...)
20:50
Of course, downvoting+closing applies when OP is really exagerating. Ex: scanned homework assignment as image (I've seen it)
It's not an easy problem to solve, and it's a completely different problem from newbies posting bad questions.
We really need Shog's proposal implemented, to allow a tag badge holder to unilaterally close a question pending an edit from OP
Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy Unfortunately, the tools that would make moderation so much better will likely not be implemented any time soon
If at all
or more radically, that suggestion that every question starts off closed
Honestly, what I'd want is for the system to better communicate what's required from a potential question, before they ask it.
20:51
@MadaraUchiha if it's a minority group, well, let's ignore that until it becomes several minority groups. If we don't know that the problem is we cannot fix it.
@StephenKennedy recycling old ideas of Martin :)
@Jean-FrançoisFabre They did mention several minority groups in the post
> Too many people experience Stack Overflow¹ as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre I couldn't remember whose idea it was. Martin James?
@MadaraUchiha too vague anyway. If one group reacts badly to "MCVE" we're pretty stuck.
@StephenKennedy yes. Darn pretty good idea.
I'd want some sort of automated vetting system to be put in place before a question gets posted.
@MadaraUchiha people of color WTF? most people avatars are unicorns or cats.
20:53
I don't want the question to start closed, that would really make us seem elitists, and for good reasons.
How can I tell others about a poll about the moderator election? (can someone answer please?)
We want questions, and we want people to feel comfortable and safe posting their questions without getting snark or going through hell to get an answer
@MadaraUchiha I wanted to automatically downvote bad questions, that wasn't too popular (-20 score on meta question of mine).
@smileycreations15 others who?
@Jean-FrançoisFabre The users currently in this chatroom
Honestly, from people I speak with IRL I feel like the usual flow is "ask first question, get told your question is bad, and that your problem is stupid, and that you're stupid for asking (not in so many words), leave Stack Overflow, never look back"
20:55
@MadaraUchiha for instance there's some heuristics which predicts that you're going to get downvotes because of your title. Every time I ignored that warning, I got upvotes instead.
@smileycreations15 well, post a link, for starters.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre I smell a ML problem :D
I already answered your poll.
@MadaraUchiha What is ML?
@smileycreations15 machine learning
@smileycreations15 Is this a new poll or one of the 2 you already posted?
20:57
@MadaraUchiha that's for sure! For instance I wanted to add some rule to warn if the question starts by "write". Because a great deal of homework questions start by that.
@StephenKennedy One of the 2 polls that I already posted.
We could add rules to detect code dumps / prevent too long code dumps too. Well, some would object that people could choose to ignore those warnings and continue.
also ML could issue FPs.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre What is FP?
I was expecting that 😀 False Positive
@smileycreations15 I don't know, then. I'm OK with you posting it again but I have no position of authority here.
20:59
but you'll have to post a picture of a unicorn afterwards.
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