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21:00
@KendallFrey not nonsensical, just used incorrectly
Yes, nonsensical
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
if you're burning, to drown the fire is an intensive purpose
@KendallFrey it makes sense... but it's doesn't mean the same as the original expression.
@BenjaminGruenbaum but will you agree that you cannot in fact know the value of c because we cannot ever know the limits of the infinite value (as there are none)
if we put in a limit, it is not a real infinite.
we might call it that, but it's not
It seems you misunderstand limits.
21:01
!!s/intensive purposes/intents and purposes/
night night
I’d go to a hospital for all intensive purposes.
limits are all about infinities.
@rlemon please stop with the pseudoscientific babble
@rlemon right, we don't know the value of c, but we know that it's a number, do you agree since there is no 'biggest' natural number there is some natural number K such that 1/c<K ?
21:02
I don't agree you can ever have a natural number which repeats infinitely. not without stoping the repeat at some point. or representing the number as a part.
@rlemon You agreed with how I defined 0.9999.... that's the definition we're working with, I'm not claiming anything else
then 0.999 represents 1 as a part, and 0.9999 represents it even better
but I don't see that as a real number. I see it as a representation of a number we cannot fully define.
@rlemon Natural numbers are integers ≥ 1, no?
21:04
@rlemon So, we've got a well defined 0.9999... and 1, and a number C which is the non-zero difference between them, and a number K such that 1/c<K so 1/K<c , so we know 1/(10^k) is even _smaller, so we know that 1- 0.99999.... > 1/(10^k) . However 1/(10^k) is just a power of 10, it's just 0.00..0001 (with K zeros), which would imply that 0.9999... stops, which it doesn't. So in fact 0.999999... == 1, QED
If we can't define it, how is it a number?
it's a representation of a number
One reason I don't like catholics is that they cannot define their god
is 1e9 a number? or is it a representation of 1000000000
@rlemon it is a number because of how you define a number
21:05
@rlemon it's a representation of the number 1
Are any of you mathematicians? I doubt it. So if any of you disagree with mathematicians - you're wrong.
STAY OUT OF IT TOM
@TomW I am :P
I can disagree all fucking day long if I like. Doesn't make me right. makes for a damn good discussion however.
21:05
@TomW I am
I'm an engineer. I do fake math.
@rlemon troll alert
@JanDvorak where?!
@rlemon applied math :P
sometime it has to bend a bit
@rlemon you
21:06
@JanDvorak cool story bro.
Has @rlemon seen that Vi Hart video
I know enough about mathematics to know that I don't know enough to challenge accepted wisdom about it
I used to be an engineer and do applied maths.
@TomW always question the system
@rlemon I don't want to win an argument, this is stuff I teach at the university when tutoring first year's, what I'd really like is for you to understand the concept of infinity and arbitrarily small things, we assumed there was a difference, and have shown that in fact there isn't.
21:07
@rlemon did you read my simple algebra proof?
Seriously, this is literally the 0.999..=1 argument?
It's proven. Let it go
@TomW it's not an argument :P
@BenjaminGruenbaum but then concept contradict? This is why I just wanted a gist. the other room members cannot let us debate this without putting in their $0.02 of crap that I could care less about
Also, "It's proven. Let it go" is not constructive, I know the last theorem of Fermat is proven but I'd have no idea where to start
:This article has been reviewed on its talk page. Please use the comments to make improvements, if you can. Babbling (also called twaddling) is a stage in child development and a state in language acquisition, during which an infant appears to be experimenting with uttering sounds of language, but not yet producing any recognizable words. (Crucially, the larynx or voicebox, originally high in the throat to let the baby breathe while swallowing, descends during the first year of life, allowing a pharynx to develop and all the sounds of human speech to be formed.) Babbling begins at approxi...
21:08
@TomW It is the process of proving it again.
Understanding why something is true is much more valuable than simply accepting that fact.
I think I once used Fermat's Last Theorem in a proof of my own.
maybe we'll open a room later on @BenjaminGruenbaum I do like discussing this with you. Others are just being assholes.
@JanDvorak fuck off
@rlemon so, flag instead?
21:09
Of course, it was a completely petty proof of one of my own thought experiments.
go ahead. might I flag you insulting me earlier?
@KendallFrey Doing this just out of interest or due to school?
Jan Dvorak has removed rlemon from the list of room owners
polite insults are still insults.
lol :P
I'm with rlemon though, no need to move messages, just curse back
21:10
@BenjaminGruenbaum no I haven't
@BenjaminGruenbaum is Fermat's Last really complicated enough that someone with letters saying they're a mathematician can't necessarily understand it? Or have you just never put that much effort into it?
@OctavianDamiean It was just something I thought of while daydreaming.
@BenjaminGruenbaum it's 5:10 and I need to get home . but i'll be on later if you are still up
@TomW It's an entire course in the university
@KendallFrey cool.
21:11
@rlemon Cool, catch up later, we'll get there don't worry :)
@rlemon I would rather not continue this discussion
Imagine a NxN square. Count the number of tiles touching the edge of the square. Then count the rest. What value must N have so that both counts are equal?
IIRC, there is no solution for whole numbers in any number of dimensions.
:9678429 4 != 0
sorry, misread
I can do some algebra in R3 and R4; as much as is required for undergrad physics. Wish I'd had the chance to study more
21:13
@minitech this room is usually a lot less dramatic :)
@BenjaminGruenbaum You keep trying to convince me of that.
I recently took seriously the opinion of someone who thought "you really need to know category theory to really grok Haskell"
I took calculus in Highschool, but I can no longer remember the concepts of integration or derivation
@minitech I think you might be the cause.
posted on May 28, 2013 by Victor Rodriguez

Google Unable To Keep Paying App Developers In Argentina Unknown Mathematician Proves Elusive Property of Prime Numbers

21:15
One lecturer declared to a first-year class in the first or second week "All physics is differential equations"
Whole class made this face:
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'll be bugging you with theoretical mathematics stuff in the near future if you don't mind, just discovered how much more interesting that kind of maths is compared to applied mathematics.
The one rule in applied physics: everything is a line for all intents and purposes
@OctavianDamiean You're welcome to do so, I hope I can help
@OctavianDamiean Blasphemy!
Hi guys ! please whats wrong here preview.innerHTML = '<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/' + video_id + ' " frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>' ;
i got this error Error: Permission denied to access property 'toString'
21:18
@echo_Samir Google that error
but it work and the error comes i dont know why
@echo_Samir Where did video_id come from?
@echo_Samir, iframe is actually a limit
it works it shows the video but in the same time im getting this error
@echo_Samir GOOGLE THAT ERROR
21:19
@phenomnomnominal you mean i change iframe ?
I would not have suggested it, if I wasn't sure you'd get your answer
im thinking its something about quotes
GOOGLE THAT ERROR
^
@minitech moar puzzles
i found this
The error can either be fixed by Adobe's Flash Player team, or by the Google engineers - you should just ignore it for now. It's connected to Flash Player security settings and the SWF file embedded into the Youtube page. The problem has been reported in the past by IBM, and there is a Mozilla Bugzilla entry as well.
21:22
Great!
Sounds like another problem solved by using Google
ok thanks , its not my fault its mozilla :)
@BenjaminGruenbaum, yes, 'solved'...
@TomW It's solved, it's an issue with the plugin that has no impact on his code, it is well known and there is a bug report on it.
@phenomnomnominal Of course from my own point of view.
I'd prefer for all bugs to be my fault, because that means I can fix them. Putting up with the fact that something doesn't work isn't a solution
21:25
@BenjaminGruenbaum Haven’t remade 4 yet, but if you’re that anxious, here’s one. Figure out what this does without running it.
@TomW Vimeo's API has a ton of undocumented side effects. I know that feeling
@KendallFrey It'd be a lot cooler if the troll wasn't a comment
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm surprised noone clicked the link
@minitech clever! you're reading the function's own source code
21:30
@minitech - Is that really your age?
@minitech so code would contain the entire commented-out function's code after the while loop
@ShotgunNinja Yes. Moderators never lie.
eval(code) would throw an exception for sure, the var name seems harmless but with is a forbidden word iirc
@minitech How does it feel to be a mod?
@SomeKittens Awesome.
@BenjaminGruenbaum So what console output do you predict, say if you ran it with Node?
21:35
@minitech Still figuring it out, my guess would be the error about using "with", minus the string "SyntaxError", then the string in the finally block
@BenjaminGruenbaum Good guess. Almost :)
has anyone ever used the twitch.tv api?
In fact, the error happens before with; package is one of the reserved names in strict mode, so that’s the one that will appear.
@minitech Ah, nice :) Didn't know that
So something like "Unexpected use of reserved identifier" I guess
Yep.
21:39
any one know where i can find a good websocket guide for a websocket noob? I'm looking to incorporate it for my live chat page
@Dave Are you aware that websocket support is limited to a few browsers?
yeh but can't that be checked via js to have a fall back option ?
@minitech would this go into infinite recursion?
(function b(i){
   var a = b;
   c=b.toString();
   console.log(i++)
   eval(c)
})(0)
Socket.IO does a good job of fallback
@Dave There are some ways.
@SomeKittens Which implementation of WebSockets?
im sure browsers will push to support them in the next year though surely
@BenjaminGruenbaum I shall venture a guess… yes.
@minitech Are you sure?
@BenjaminGruenbaum No.
Whoa, wait
Guessing either the WebIDL implementation (becoming standard very shortly, apparently) or the Node.JS wrapper around it, since those seem to be the most popular browser-side implementations of WebSockets.
21:42
@minitech What are we eval'ing?
@Dave Yeah, but not everyone uses the most modern browser.
@BenjaminGruenbaum It won’t
@minitech right :) And why is that?
It doesn't actually execute b when you eval.
do they hold a performance advantage for things like live chat rooms?
21:43
Because it just makes a function declaration the next time, I think
And errors out with a SyntaxError, or just declares the function
I forget whether the name shows up.
Ah, it does.
@Dave They do, because they're an NRT communication protocol.
Good one :D
ok cool
21:44
Here is the evil version :)
(function b(i){
   var a = b;
   c=b.toString();
   console.log(i);
   eval(c+"b("+i+")")
})(0)
wonder if paul irish has done some posts on it
why this example not function??? jsfiddle.net/mrk1989/8ALvJ
hi people :P
why are thusly
@MirkoCianfarani ncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token +
I wanna learn RoR, does this make me a bad person
21:51
@XCritics Not at all
Goodie
Having @minitech here is good, he's just a year older than okok and BrandenGelfand, but he's fun to talk to, whenever I bring up age as an excuse for a troll's behavior here, remind me of this. @rlemon @phenomnomnominal @Loktar @JanDvorak @OctavianDamiean (wow, too many pings already)
@SomeKittens sweet!
@BenjaminGruenbaum So you're saying you like some young boys more than others?
I think he's really saying he wants to up the ratio of mature young boys in the room so he can show them his "math skills"
21:56
@Shmiddty Of course, did you not just read what I wrote? I also like some little girls more an others
@BenjaminGruenbaum ALL OF THE PINGS
@phenomnomnominal That sounds suspiciously like what the priest of my local church said in that public statement he made from his cell.
@phenomnomnominal At least he has standards, I guess.
buhhhh can't type
time to go home
21:58
Bah
Mar 13 at 1:40, by rlemon
(Random Fact, when rlemon was 13 he pooped on a slide. he isn't proud of it, but he felt it was time to confess. I'm sorry slide.)
!!are you awlive
thx for help but why I can't create button's dialog with variable
buttons: {
                    //Names need to go here as part of the buttons
        "Send " + $(this).data('name') + " a message": function() {
          $( this ).dialog( "close" );
        },
        "view " + $(this).data('name') + "profile ": function() {
          $( this ).dialog( "close" );
        }
Where's the bot been all day?
@XCritics Indeed
@XCritics fucking your dad.
21:58
Woah.
I'm in a dark place right now.
Love you too homie
!!/live

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