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18:00
Hm, am I blind or is there absolutely no documentation on the current mozilla/webkit html5 notification implementation out there? Every single document I find is using the old webkitNotifications API
@ThiefMaster What's the new one?
AFAIK there's only w3.org/TR/notifications
yeah that actually looks good, ty
it's not what i'd call a proper documentation aimed to someone using it though
Yeah, it's the standard. You're right, it's weird though - I can't find it in FF
it's very new there (only available in 22+)
oh, right
18:07
@ everyone, now my autocomplete works, thanks :D
I'm wondering - if the bots grants the access before the user requests it, no notification should appear. Can this be done?
That is done
Otherwise you would've seen a lot of notifications. The slips of are when there's a few seconds delay between user entry and privilege refresh.
there's a permission cache in play here?
18:22
@JanDvorak Whadya mean?
or, you mean before the user's chat window refreshes?
In the gist I detailed the process involved
user1125394
hmm just make a QI test to enter this room, will be troll-safe
You failed it by spelling "IQ" wrong
user1125394
(not too hard for me)
18:28
user1125394
@Zirak in french it's like that sry
@FlorianMargaine Please confirm the above statement
user1125394
hehe
user1596138
So I have about 4 titles (headings.... whatever) that need to be mirrored at another place on the page for anchors that way the dumbasses in the office don't have to worry about forgetting the second place.
user1596138
I know how to do it in JS. But I'd rather try and do it with recursion instead of specific functions.
18:37
@Zirak you saw that right?
And he was given access
giving voice to 833670
Object { event_type=1, time_stamp=1369507033, content="@Zirak you saw that right?", more...} parseMessage invalid
@Jhawinsss y u change name?
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum I thought you asked me that yesterday?
18:38
Did i break something?
Maybe I did and I'm senile
@eazimmerman naa, it's all good
@Jhawinsss I don't see how that has anything to do with recursion
user1596138
I like this name better than my full one.... My full name is on my SO profile in the full name section still...
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum I want one function to go through all 4 headers and update them. Instead of writing a function for each one...
@Jhawinsss That's just having a method
Recursion is when you divide a problem into smaller problems, and then solve the smaller ones first in order to solve the bigger one
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Not if there could be an infinite amount of headers at any given point time...
18:40
Wow... This is a really interesting perspective on Javascript dogma speakerdeck.com/anguscroll/the-politics-of-javascript
@Jhawinsss You can keep arguing with me and show ignorance, or you can learn, it's your call, I don't care either way
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Damn.
So, for example, let's say I want to calculate factorial (!) , factorial means taking an integer , and multiplying it by all smaller positive integers
4! (reads Four Factorial) is 4*3*2*1 = 24, so far so good?
Ooh, Benjamin's teaching stuff
go on..
18:44
@Jhawinsss so far so good? I'm trying to teach you something very basic in computing
Factorial in golfscript: ,{*}*
WTF. looks like webkit "forgot" to implement Notification.permission
which means it's impossible to check if the user granted notification permissions without actually triggering the permission request prompt
@twiz Can I find the actual presentation or just the slides?
It doesn't actually prompt again, though
user1596138
18:47
@BenjaminGruenbaum You're not trying to teach me anything about computing.... It's fucking english. I misused a word.
@BenjaminGruenbaum not sure. The slides are pretty good though
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum You're also acting like a condescending POS.
!!/mute 1596138 "Want to try this new feature out"
@BenjaminGruenbaum Please give mute reason, see /help mute
@Jhawinsss maybe, but I'm pretty sure he has earned that right.
user1596138
18:48
I get muted from the room for that? Bull.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Could not process input. Error: Unexpected end of input: Expected " on line 1403 on column 43
@BenjaminGruenbaum Muted user 1596138
Interesting
what is "muted user 1596138"
18:49
@Zirak muted users ask for access again, which is annoying but we can live with, also, works nicely
!!/unmute 1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Unmuted user 1596138
user1596138
That's just abusing power.
.......
@Jhawinsss you were muted for 10 seconds, for the purpose of checking out if the mute system even works, which my message said, chillax :)
howdy folks. Anybody feel like telling me where I goofed here? c9.io/jamesson/inventory/workspace/addvenue.htm
18:51
@Tiina How would you implement factorial in JavaScript?
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Chill yourself out and quit being an asshole (Not about the muting).
= =b
@jamesson What do you mean? It seems to work?
@jamesson do you mean about submit giving back "Forbidden" ?
I m an embedded c jerk
@BenjaminGruenbaum, check the consile after clicking more
18:52
I use phonegap is to build an mobile web app for our university where i ll soon graduate from
@jamesson I get 'undefined'
@Tiina JavaScript is a great language to learn :)
@Jhawinsss This is the reason you're a lousy programmer, you always have to be the smartest and you're never willing to admit you're wrong. You used a programming term long, and instead of taking up my offer to learn it properly which would benefit you, you got all protective
@BenjaminGruenbaum, exactly the problem :)
I think I'm going to live my life by this law... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre's_law
@jamesson What did you expect?
not so agree. I dont like the feeling that i have no idea what is behind
18:54
var factorial = function factorial(x){return x?x*factorial(x-1):1}; factorial = _.memoize(factorial)
o wait it don't have one duuuuh
sorry aorry aorry
@jamesson you confused me :)
sometimes something doesnt work, it might be my code, it might be the tool or platform.
@JanDvorak you have to refer to the outer factorial, no?
@JanDvorak That works, and the memoize is a nice touch, but I feel the need to argue.
18:55
@copy I do
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum I used a word wrong. It isn't strictly a programming "term." When your near first reply is about my ignorance instead of saying "Bro, that's the wrong word" of course I took offense.
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah, it could have been written in one statement
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Now I'm a lousy programmer.
Nice my first coffeescript file gist.github.com/Gacnt/6cd0d99c0efa3c093040 works great!
user1596138
All I am is limited by my lack of hours and permission to fix a website built by a script-kiddie.
user1596138
18:57
Every function I've written on that site works damn good. And most are damn well written functions.
@Jhawinsss which ones did you write?
@Jhawinsss why you said that about ysf
user1596138
@Tiina ?
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum All of the ones in the last six months they use...
have a weird mystery element(s) somewhere on my my site making an unwanted horizontal scroll on mobile layout and tablet layout and can't seem to find it at http://benlevywebdesign.com/
18:58
@Jhawinsss link to one?
@benlevywebdesign this is one of the times I'd boot up firefox and use the 3d feature
are room kids playing with mute/unmute yet? :D
@Jhawinsss "Now I'm a lousy programmer." If you are lousy, then what I am :D
user1596138
Go find it yourself. All you've been interested in is pointing out her flaws on the homepage (there are hundreds, I know).
@JanDvorak Did that and still nothing
19:00
@benlevywebdesign since which width does it happen?
user1596138
Most of my work for them is in the back-end. I've written an abundance of PHP scripts for them to handle the real work of the website. I've written our entire database system which stores all of our accounting, billing and collections. I've also written a system in PHP for our office intranet. All of our vaca times and scheduling is done online. All of our potential clients are tracked and discussed online amongst us in the office. It's a massive system.
@JanDvorak hmm
user1596138
I wrote a survey system to handle our 3,000+ responses in our yearly Whammy poll.
19:01
@Jhawinsss that's cool, link?
@Jhawinsss @BenjaminGruenbaum can you guys just bang and make up already?
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Link you to my intranet system? As if I'd just be cool with you manipulating our accounting database?
@Jhawinsss I was talking about the poll
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Wait till November 1st if you want to see the readers poll. It's been over for 5 months.
@benlevywebdesign I get a scrollbar since cca 368px
19:03
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone hmm, I read that before. but forgot in which occasion
@JanDvorak cca 368px?
:P just for info then use what you want :P
@Jhawinsss In case that wasn't clear, I don't have anything personal against you, I'm sorry if I've offended you. I guess I don't get you :P
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone thanks anyway :)
19:04
sometimes I really feel a programmer is like a chicken in the factory, from nothing but an egg to be edible, only 3 months .....
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Labeling me a "lousy programmer" is something coming from someone like you to someone like me who's just starting to actually get into some real work. I'd hope you can at least see why.
I get the feeling that you're trying to prove something to us, we're just guys on a chat room on the internet, that confuses me.
@benlevywebdesign #container is 340px since #designsection is 320px + 2*10px #container padding
OH YAY, it's getting better and better. When using the proper Notification API Chrome ignores the icon options
19:06
@ThiefMaster you're talking to yourself, you know that right :)? We really have no idea how the new notification API works, are you at least using Canary?
@BenjaminGruenbaum do you have notices about Octavian and rlemon? :D where do they are ??
and yeah, but i need to vent my annoyance somewhere ;)
@rlemon is in Canada
19:06
@benlevywebdesign didnt we do this already?
sure, maybe it's just broken because it's beta. but i somehow doubt it....
Like yesterday in the HTML / CSS room?
@Jhawinsss I'm not going to stat walking on egg shells so people won't get offended on the internet. Good programmers are dumb and lazy:)
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't have anything to prove to you. If I did I wouldn't ask half the questions I do. I'm not ashamed to be ignorant, I would be ashamed to be lousy.
I don't know, I guess I just label lack of will to learn as lousy and it seemed to me that you were not interested in learning back there, maybe I misread the situation.
19:09
anyone really like the new G+ UI? :u
If you don't know how recursion works, you should really learn that, it's fundamental
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone I never knew people actually use G+ :)
if you want to understand recursion, you first need to understand recursion
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Honestly @BenjaminGruenbaum, I used the wrong word. I know what it is, although I was going to suggest someone do a mini-class thing here on it just yesterday because I'd like to learn more about it.
@BenjaminGruenbaum asd well for me it sucks, but i was trying figuring out how it could be liked :P
user1596138
@JanDvorak See..... I get it lol.
19:13
@JanDvorak still nothing
@benlevywebdesign check other elments' widths
what's the minimum width you want to support?
if it's 340px, you're done
@JanDvorak no its 320px which is standard for mobile devices
@Benjamin I think you should either start a blog or a YouTube channel and explain fundamental topics like these! It'd be pretty awesome
8
can someone explain me, why many (most of all) MULTIBILIONAIRE companies invests so much in bad UI ? :(
oh i forgot that maybe they do not invests in UI at all :P
@benlevywebdesign perhaps you want to kill the padding on #container if the width is below 340px
19:17
@phenomnomnominal I'm actually loving coffeescript, it's fun to write
@JanDvorak how would I do that and the scroll is only happening on my homepage not subpages
user1125394
@BenjaminGruenbaum just a replacement for mails sometimes
@benlevywebdesign then I recommend hunting down the few 320px elements and shrinking them 300px, if they are so few
you can focus on the elements that are not present on subpages
user1125394
hmm now on I'll be locked with windows, I've a usb-monitor with a vendor driver (win+mac)
19:23
@JanDvorak a = b = function a() { a() }; a = function() {}; b() - infinity loop or nop?
@copy Can I answer?
Yes
!!>a = b = function a() { a() }; a = function() {}; b()
@JanDvorak "InternalError: too much recursion"
19:24
@copy the named function expression is overriding the global
@copy there's a IE bug regarding that, IIRC
@BenjaminGruenbaum shadowing
... referring to what I said earlier
@JanDvorak Actually IIRC the term is "hiding", but sure :)
in IE, it additionally seeps to the defining scope, which it shouldn't.
What scope o_O?
19:25
!!>var x = function f(){}; f()
@JanDvorak "ReferenceError: f is not defined"
> Call the CreateImmutableBinding(N) concrete method of envRec passing the String value of Identifier as the argument.
In IE, this doesn't crash
This part (for easy control+f) FunctionExpression : function Identifier ( FormalParameterListopt ) { FunctionBody }
(Just returns undefined a = b = function() { a() }; a = function() {}; b() )
That was a brilliant example:
Bad sex is better than nothing;
Nothing is better than good sex;
=> Bad sex is better than good sex.
19:34
Context?
Octavian (or was it Amaan?) linked me to this: class.coursera.org/intrologic
It was one of the examples in grammatical ambiguity
All in all you're just a, nother brick in the waalllll BEE BOO BE DA DEE DA DEE DA DO
The Wall was the last straw
fortune -m "HOW TO PROVE"
19:39
@Zirak Both of us did
@Zirak have you ever considered getting a formal CS degree :) ? I think you'll really enjoy it
I have and I probably will (enjoy it). But of course, it's a little bit more complex than that
@BenjaminGruenbaum He is definitely a smart guy.
@Zirak You know, eventually you'll have to explain statements like that one, or you won't. We're really not judgmental people :)
You don't see how going to get a degree can be a complex task, for anyone?
19:45
It costs more than it is worth.
@Zirak That doesn't mean I don't have complete faith in you being able to do so, regardless of circumstance (which I don't, and don't pretend to know).
@twiz What it is worth is how it affects you.
@FizzyTea true. I was making a bit of a generalization.
I teach people with bad grades and bad lives in the Mechina, people from broken families, people with no money. I've seen people rise above and get a degree, work their asses off but end up being very successful. You seem smarter than most these people.
that was odd
wouldn't let me talk
i just spent hour on plink :P
19:48
It looks like a great website! Will most of these Javascript functionality work in Jquery too? — Mathias Boeckx 2 hours ago
/me bangs his head on the table
@twiz He writes well and is clever, I don't know if it means he's very smart. He seems clever though.
@ThiefMaster Haha, that's awesome
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm not saying he is 100% right in everything, but he makes some good points.
points I've never heard from anyone else
@twiz Completely agree, that Paris one is golden.
HOLY CRAP Firefox now ships with parallel array, ladies and gentleman, we've got PLINQ developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Reference/…
var p = new ParallelArray([0, 1, 2, 3, 4]);
var m = p.map(function (v) {
    return v + 1;
});
come make a track with me guys : labs.dinahmoe.com/plink :P
wait.... so m = [1,2,3,4,5]?
or what?
19:53
Yeah,
Imagine you have a computer intensive calculation, like really intensive
It takes 1 second per array element, and you have 100 elements
can I map using neighboring cells, such as for the purposes of CA?
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh yeah. Just tried it. They could have used fat arrow though!
If you want to parallelise it today, it's a pain, you have to create a pool of web workers, and deal with each one manually, create a producer queue, a consumer queue, handle that sort of stuff you do with threading and message passing
With ParallelArray it'd be
@twiz m.buffer = [1,2,3,4,5]
var p = new ParallelArray(Your100Elements);
var m = p.map(YourCpuintensiveFunction);
// m now contains all the elements mapped, it took care of threading itself
19:56
@BenjaminGruenbaum can it optimise cellular automation? (map using neigboring cells in a 2d grid)
Yeah, I don't see why not, the grid is immutable
@twiz m is a new type of object
ooohhhh
interesting
Hrm, wouldn't it make more sense to make those functions async (like with webworkers)?
If you need to parallelize stuff in JS it's surely slow enough to be unsuitable for the main DOM thread...
@ThiefMaster this is a very common use case
19:58
@Dave damn thats kind of amazing
Sometimes you just want stuff to be 'fast enough', PLINQ is awesome for that, I know that blocking is 'against' the language but you can always ParallelArray in a webworker
ah i see your in there :P im pascal @twiz
haha seriously I think I could spend hours on that
yeh ive been on it a bit already
some times it creates good music
can you make like your own "room"?
20:01
sadly not
i think its just a websocket demo
@Dave damn... they need to do that, let people record, and add their own sounds....
yup
that could seriously be like a legit site ha
Guys, please vote to undelete this question. The comments to that are sort of stupid: stackoverflow.com/questions/16753384/…
@VisioN What's "I tried the solutions here but didn't work"?
20:14
@BenjaminGruenbaum because it is insane to parse html with regex
@VisioN k, linked question was stupid, I undeleted
@VisioN you might be interested in telling him how to select comment nodes
@VisioN wait, nvm, that's not the question, my bad
@BenjaminGruenbaum I just want to give a good advice =)
@VisioN why jQuery though?
@BenjaminGruenbaum The OP is using it, why not? But I could give an alternative solution. Thanks for vote BTW
sure
No need to include a 80KB library just for this sort of stuff
20:27
This is not well known enough: developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/…
I will bring that method up once in a while until it is
All that does is return a tree iterator?
Yes.
It's a simple tree walker
When would that make my life easier?
I see people complain about awkward selection mechanisms in the DOM.
It's just a tree
20:31
Say you have a parent element and you want to find child elements so that such-and-such conditions match. People turned to selectors or other weird constructs
Crockford's walkTheDom works :) Just a while loop on the children that calls itself recursively when finding elements
And walkTheDom is an implementation of createTreeWalker
Don't know, sounds like adding functionality that belongs in a function, or a library to the native API. It's simple enough to implement
(To make an annoying argument -> If enough people needed this, it would have been included in jQuery at some point)
jquery "solved" traversal by using selectors
Well, non-trivial traversal
I dunno, it doesn't feel very JavaScripty. Where's my callback?
20:36
Honestly I think they did a good job, selectors are a very nice solution when you need to traverse :P
It's shorter and easier to use selectors 90% of the time
I hate selectors. They make me want to punch a kitten.
If you need traversal and you're not hooking on something existing or scraping something, that indicates a deeper problem
What have they done to my precious tree...
I've written ~2000 lines of JS code this weekend (since Wednesday) for a work project, not a single selector
Not because I'm against them, just because I didn't have to, then again, I'm data-binding, and createElementing a lot
Wait, I have a is:hidden selector in a jQuery fallback for CSS transitions in versions of IE that don't support transitions
Yeah, selectors only seem useful for scraping to me. I've never needed them because I've always also been in control of the HTML.
20:40
Exactly, I only use them when I don't own the HTML
Then again, if I didn't have proper data-binding I would have had more selectors
I only have one 'selector' at all, a document.getElementById for setting the root element for Knockout, after that I let it take care of all the traversal logic.
user1596138
So @BenjaminGruenbaum, you're the one who likes to run little class type events here right?
That depends on who's asking :) Why?
I've never used a framework of any kind. I suppose I should really take a look. They certainly seem to get some good press in here.
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well I'm asking? Haha. Because, like I said I was going to suggest one on general recursion the other day...
@FizzyTea Well, otherwise I just end up implementing data binding myself.
@FizzyTea how do you handle taking care of that?
@Jhawinsss I might do one on recursion, I'm not sure how many people are interested though
user1125394
20:45
'dash' is a german word no?
Nein
user1596138
I've obviously not been doing this long. But besides recursion I've always been in the habit of creating specific functions for specific things. I guess you'd say it's more "dynamic" when a function can go through a page and do multiple things to multiple elements regardless of how many there are?
user1596138
What would we call that?
user1596138
I really am a lousy programmer right now haha. I'm working on it.
@Jhawinsss A loop?
user1125394
20:46
ok, just a name
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Basically.
@Benjamin I'd be interested
user1596138
I just always know exactly how many things I have to mess with.... Let me give an example hold on.
I mean, I have worked with recursion before (proof: I think recursion is awesome), but there's probably a lot more formal stuff to it that I've missed
user1125394
@BenjaminGruenbaum dp ypu actually have time coding, you always talk hehe
20:47
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, just do it myself, classical MVC style. I could probably save myself some trouble by using a framework. I have an aversion to frameworks however.
user1596138
I wrote the following the other day. And it works, but the buttons have to use onclick="story('1')" for example. When I know you all would have had a completely "dynamic" solution.
@Zirak If only @Raynos was here to argue that stand :P
user1596138
function story(id) {

document.getElementById('story' + id).style.maxHeight = '2000px';
document.getElementById('button' + id).innerHTML = '<b>Read Less...</b>';
document.getElementById('button' + id).onclick = function() {
document.getElementById('story' + id).style.maxHeight = height1 + height12 + 20 + 'px';
document.getElementById('button' + id).innerHTML = '<b>Read More...</b>';
document.getElementById('button' + id).onclick = function(){ story(id); } ;
};
ew
user1125394
@Jhawinsss do you know .css?
20:48
Anyone who was in the data/presentation separation talk see anything odd with @Jhawinsss code?
user1596138
This was my solution for a read more button. Not a good one I know. I want to do things better.
user1596138
@xcx Yes?
user1596138
@xcx You mean I could've used .css instead of style right?
@FizzyTea keeping the model/view in sync, and where the controller logic goes seems like an issue, MVVM like Knockout works like a charm, I'm way more fond of frameworks after I've read the source code. I totally share that framework aversion though, it's one of the things I hate about ASP.NET
user1596138
@xcx I've not consolidated style into a stylesheet for this yet. It's inline right now.
20:50
@Jhawinsss When you do stuff "button"+id I die a little :'(
I might do an array talk some time :P
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum I know..... This is a big shortcoming and I'm not going to try and explain why other than by saying I know it's not right.
If you're serious about being a coder, I really think you should give "The art of computer programming" a read, it's a fantastic book
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum I would be in the room for that too.
@Jhawinsss Hey. You know that if you add an event, the event handler's this is the event, right? Use that
@Jhawinsss I can explain why that's a shotcoming it if you'd like
20:52
this is the element*
Sorry, on mobile
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'll check Knockout out. If it's small and flexible I could be tempted.
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum You said that the other day... I had it from the library awhile back but then I had my car accident... And a lot of other things going on. My life hasn't been back in order till this month.
Also, document.getElementById( is expensive, you can save the result of document.getElementById in a variable and use that
user1596138
@AmaanCheval I'm having trouble understanding that...
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum I did do that myself this morning actually. I just hadn't updated the doc on my desktop yet.
20:53
@Jhawinsss also consider source control
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well I know that it could be this instead couldn't it?
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum True dat.
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm not sure what you mean about keeping the model and the view in sync though.
@Jhawinsss The problem is that you're not separating what you're showing and the data you have.
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Wait, what?
20:54
@FizzyTea Let's say I have a list of users, I pull the new list of users from the server, I need to update what I'm showing too.
user1125394
@BenjaminGruenbaum give him the pointer to your talk
@FizzyTea Imagine you have a list of comments, a user can add a comment and the list would need to update and show the new comment
user1125394
willl save you 10 min
user1596138
@xcx I think I've got it. I was going to go back and read it later because I was working when it happened but it intrigued me.
May 21 at 18:46, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
Ok, I think we can start now :)
user1596138
20:56
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, I was here for that but couldn't actually participate. Which is how I learn best.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, I thought that was what MVC was for though.
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Mind pinging me next time something goes down?
@FizzyTea yeah, when your model updates you want your view to get notified and update itself, Knockout.JS only takes care of that part for you
@Jhawinsss sure, I'll try to remember
@BenjaminGruenbaum Are you aware of how to set the node.js to compile coffeescript client side?
All it does is data-binding, and it does it simply, and well, they call themselves a framework but it's really more of a library
user1596138
20:57
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sounds good. Like I said, I'm not here to cause problems, or to prove anything or make myself feel good. I'm honestly here for the conversation in general and to learn. I've just started...
(express)
@XCritics you don't need to compile it, you can run it directly as coffeescript. Type coffee yourserver where yourserver.coffee is your entry point
I'm talking about the static files for client side, unless you are too
Oh, no, I was talking about the server-side
Yeah I'm ok on the server-side, I'm just having difficulties on the client side
20:59
Honestly I use Visual Studio with ReSharper, when I save a coffeescript file, it automagically compiles it to a JS file
@phenomnomnominal uses some tool for that
ah poop
I think JetBrains editors do that too

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