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1:31 AM
 
 
7 hours later…
8:26 AM
Hello JS people
 
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HI
Hello team, I just need someone's opinion on which Javascript framework (Flutter, VueJS, Jquery and React JS ) to use FOR building high scalable enterprise web and mobile app
 
 
7 hours later…
3:36 PM
I am one third of the way through watching a presentation by Chris Coyier called "The All Powerful Front End Developer"from two years ago. For at least the last year or so, I've repeatedly run into the term "Serverless" but it never made sense to me and I couldn't find a pithy explanation. Watching this presentation, I think I've finally grasped it.
Can anyone confirm please...
Does "Serverless" mean that the server sends flat files (HTML, CSS, JS) and doesn't process them in any way using PHP, Python, Ruby etc. ? Is that what "Serverless" means? (ie. "ServerScriptless")
(Also, by extension, no server configuration via .htaccess, httpd.conf etc.)
If I've finally understood it, that's a bother off my mind. Not quite as good as when I finally found out that GIT stood for "Global Information Tracker" but I'll take it.
 
4:02 PM
"serverless" is the term used to describe a hosting service where the control and management of the server itself is given to the provider
the user (we as developers or our companies) simply send the software or files to the provider, which makes sure they are hosted and executed or delivered when requested
for example, Google Drive can act as a serverless file server
you have no control over the management of the actual servers, which OS they are running, what architecture the machine is, where the files are located, how they are saved, etc
however, Google Drive has a few limitations
a different example, probably less known, is AWS S3 (which is an even better example of a file server)
in that case, you can also expose the content via http so you can access .css .html or .js files from it
giving you a static resource hosting
but serverless is not necesssarily static
I for example have a lot of applications hosted as serverless applications
I simply upload the binaries to AWS and they make sure that there will be a server running the applications whenever I want
Wietbot itself is almost entirely serverless
a more compact description:
> Serverless allows you to build and run applications and services without thinking about servers.
- https://aws.amazon.com/serverless/#:~:text=What%20is%20serverless%3F,services%20without%20thinking%20about%20servers.
(however, slightly AWSified)
 
Oh. Darn. Now I'm confused again. The bit that you wrote at the beginning: ""serverless" is the term used to describe a hosting service where the control and management of the server itself is given to the provider

the user (we as developers or our companies) simply send the software or files to the provider, which makes sure they are hosted and executed or delivered when requested"

Is that really so different from normal server-based architecture?
I've been using shared webhosting for 19 years and if I described it, my description would sound a lot like your description immediately above.
eg. I FTP my files to my hosting provider which makes sure they are hosted and executed or delivered when requested.
I'm guessing there's something I must have misunderstood. There's got to be more to "Serverless" than uploading to a third party hosting service which then hosts and serves your files. That's... what I've (and I'm sure millions of others) have been doing for two decades.
 
4:26 PM
it is different
There are many options for hosting. Once you choose to go cloud you have two main options:

1. VM
2. Serverless
 
VM is like Docker... is that right?
 
In the context of this, no.
VM is very simple. Basically multiple "virtual" computers running on a single physical computer. Each virtual instance is called a "VM" or virtual machine.
 
There's a lot to learn, isn't there?
I'll accept that Serverless is different from Shared Hosting.
 
Wait. We haven't discussed shared hosting.
Lets just get through 1 and 2
 
Sure, sorry - I didn't mean to interrupt.
 
4:32 PM
So with #1, a VM, you choose the specs you want (RAM, CPU power, storage, OS, etc.) and your cloud provider creates that machine for you. You get the benefit of not having to worry about physically maintaining and securing your server but virtually you do need to maintain and secure it. That means going on every so often and applying updates. Want FTP? SSH in and set that up yourself. Want PostgresSQL? SSH in set it up yourself.
You get tons of control. It's basically your own little server to do what you want, because that's exactly what it is.
But what happens when your website starts getting more users and your server can't handle it?
You decide to increase all the specs (vertically scaling). But this gets expensive, eventually you will need more servers. So you get 5 more servers. Now theres tons of overhead. Maintaining all of that is a pain.
 
I don't know. The chance would be a fine thing. The best I've ever managed was around 6000 unique visitors a day in 2007-08 and that certainly wasn't something my server couldn't handle.
 
Also, you are paying for many high spec servers even at 3AM when very few people are on your site.
The other option is #2. Serverless. Instead, you make your application. That's it. You don't worry at all about servers. Instead, you upload your files (we'll get into what this really means in a sec) and the cloud provider handles everything including the specs, scaling, adding more servers, keeping stuff up to date, etc. Maybe you get an ad on tv and all of a sudden within 5 min your traffic is up 1000%. No problem. Your cloud provider will handle that.
Then maybe at 3AM no one is using it, no problem your cloud provider shuts down your entire site and it costs your nothing. Than at 4AM a visitor comes, no problem, cloud provider boots up a server (almost instantly) and your visitor is handled.
"Ok, so why isn't everyone using serverless?"
 
"An ad on TV" (??) If I re-mortgaged my house, maybe.
 
Some apps can't be serverless. The way serverless works is things scale horizontally, meaning instead of increasing specs your cloud provider adds more virtual servers. However, this means that one request may go to server A and the next request from the same user may go to server B. If your app can't work that way than serverless wont' work for you. Also, some people need more flexability.
(For the record, a lot of this is simplified)
Those are your main two cloud hosting options.
Does that make sense so far?
 
It makes sense.
Thought your description of Serverless sounds to ma like Cloud Computing / Utility Computing.
[Though]
 
4:44 PM
the VM is still cloud computing
 
I understand the difference in price models between Cloud Hosting and Traditional Hosting.
Very little of Serverless sounds particularly new to me if my understanding of it, which I posted higher up is incorrect.
I'm sure most people who use shared hosting don't worry about their server.
So if the advantage of Serverless is not worrying about ones server... that doesn't seem like an innovation. Hence my conclusion that there must be more that I need to understand or that there is something I have definitely missed.
1) You don't worry about servers
2) You upload your files
3) The service provider handles everything
This is true of both Shared Hosting and Serverless.
 
Shared hosting is not* comparable to a VM or serverless.
If you come back on Monday @forresthopkinsa maybe able to articulate it better than me
 
Thank you - and thank you - I very much appreciate your giving your time.
I will have a look online for ELI5 Serverless. If it offers tremendous innovation over Shared Hosting I want in. But so far, it sounds (to me, at least) remarkably similar.
 
I'd be surprised if you could fine an explanation that will differentiate it from your idea of shared hosting because it's not really comparable.
I can't explain why its not comparable, but forrest probably could.
@Rounin if your app works on shared hosting, stick with it. There's no reason to switch. It'll be more overhead probably.
 
Thanks. And no worries. Understand that I'm not that technical. So if there is one architecture which involves me writing files and hosting them somewhere else and another architecture which involves me writing files and hosting them somewhere else, I'm not going to draw a broad distinction between the two.
 
 
3 hours later…
7:49 PM
xrooms['de']['room1'] = {
^
TypeError: Cannot set property 'room1' of undefined
 
sure
why not?
 
ups
 
well you would want an object
 
...will try something
 
xrooms.de = {
   room1: {}
};
 
7:53 PM
ok,s ec, i always thought dot ist for read only :/
yeah, looks good, big thx
 
np
 

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