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15:04
i do use tomcat
found an interesting question
8
Q: How to detect on which side of the browser is scrollbar - right or left (in case of RTL)?

Limon MonteFor <html dir="rtl"> some browsers (Safari, Edge, IE) will automatically move scrollbar to the left side which is the correct behavior: Unfortunately, major browsers (Chrome and Firefox) are behaving in a different way, scrollbar will be still on the right side of the browser. It is possible ...

TIL that vertical scroll bar position is based on RTL or LTR
15:30
guys someone use angular?
only when i have to
15:46
i thought circular dependencies in python were bad... but with ES modules they are goddamn cancer
@KarelG not since turobofan
@ThiefMaster why? They "just work" in esm
absolutely no information on where the circle is, just some random undefined that starts breaking things
@KarelG that's quite intentional
@BenjaminGruenbaum no they don't, when you access imported objects outside a function these objects may resolve to undefined
@ThiefMaster what? ESM has live bindings which means it "just works" - are you sure they're using ESM?
@ThiefMaster that's not ESM - are you saying circular dependencies in webpack suck? (If so - they absolutely do)
That's a "webpack doesn't implement them properly" thing though - not an ESM thing
15:47
ah yeah, i'm using webpack with es-module-style imports
Yeah - that's not how ESM is supposed to behave :D
Webpack just doesn't resolve the reference sometimes which is really bad - I think they said they'll fix it at some point but it always creates the weirdest bugs
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't know if you can provide any direction but I recently built node, but my myinspectorSocketServerText.ServerCannotStart test faild. All the others passed
When i ran test-only
Open an issue probably
I'm on holiday and Node is like a hundred people and I'm not on the inspector team - so the best thing would be to open an issue
worst case it's a dupe - in either case you'll get help
thanks man have a good vacation
16:22
Today is a good day
user1596138
nah
user1596138
It's just Thursday
user1596138
user1596138
Omfg using alert() for anti-adblock...
user1596138
Very good idea considering most things block those by CSS
16:27
dood, i hate ads that like pop up 3 mil at a time
@LuckyKleinschmidt var alert = function() {} userscript?
Still nice trick
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Why this isn't included in every AdBlock software eludes me
user1596138
Tbh... Why alert is still in browsers eludes me :)
Probably some internal sites use it extensively
Alert is great, but should be caught by browsers in the "this website wants to open a new dialog window" catch that's been around for years
user1596138
16:37
@BenjaminGruenbaum They also use IE7
at the very least they have ex post facto options (e.g. Firefox' "do you want to prevent this page from opening new dialog boxes" option after two have been opened)
@TylerH oh definitely
user1596138
@TylerH Pretty sure they all do that
user1596138
Even mobile chrome
yes
16:39
Yeah but they should block alerts by default probably
user1596138
I'd like to have any alert blocked like a popup tho and be given the option to allow all, view the specific one, or remain blocked
user1596138
Unless it;s triggered by user interaction.
Well, to be fair I'd like none blocked (and no popups either) - and people to just vote with their traffic - but I don't really see that happening so extensions are stepping in
user1596138
If you have a link for me to click and when I click it it opens an alert, fine, just like opening a new window. But if I didn't ask for it I don't want to see it
Like, I'd like websites not to use alerts because they realize good ux is good for the product and building a product people like matters
user1596138
16:40
@BenjaminGruenbaum It is my opinion that "vote with traffic" means nothing
I don't think it'll work - but we're talking about what I'd like.
user1596138
Most sites don't have an alternative. The one I just visited for example. Where else will I get the local news?
@LuckyKleinschmidt yeah, it's like communism - it's great in theory but mostly in theory
@BenjaminGruenbaum the issue there is just internal sites/orgs will just not update or use older browsers for a few more years
user1596138
Walmart is still training on IE8
16:41
so instead of pushing people to improve, they regress back to something worse because it's more comfortable/familiar
@TylerH I think josiah point is that that doesn't mean evergreen Chrome shouldn't block alerts
user1596138
I wish my name was Joshia that's a much cooler way to spell it
@TylerH I don't blame people for that though - tech is very scary for a lot of people
user1596138
/me hits the court house
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sure, I agree, at least for non-ssl sites
16:42
@LuckyKleinschmidt I forgot an H, shoot me :D
user1596138
You added an H :P
quite probably I also agree for ssl sites, too
Ah, shit lol
as long as users can turn them on or allow them on a case-by-case basis
user1596138
Haha fr tho I am naming my kid Joshia. Close enough.
16:42
Now I forgot the 's and it's too old for an edit
I think that people don't have a fundamental right to use websites any way they'd like though. Like - I always use adblockers (being not as moral as rlemon here and quite the hypocrite) but I don't think I have a right to do so.
Like torrents - I gladly pay for content but when it's not available I still download it.
user1596138
I have the right to block. You have the right to block me for blocking
user1596138
I have the right to control any code executed on my machine tho. Indisputably
Do I have the right to deny you service if you refuse to run the code as I see fit?
user1596138
Yes.
Do you have the right to circumvent that?
user1596138
16:44
If possible.
@BenjaminGruenbaum s/moral/ethical/
I got to go, going to hear Scottish standup.
@TylerH that's debateable
Going to hear scottish standup and not understand a word, going to be fun :D
please tell me it's frankie boyle
user1596138
I could use an all text browser and I wouldn't see your ads
user1596138
16:45
Am I unethical?
user1596138
:D
No, you're masochistic
user1596138
What if I block 100% of images, which happens to block 99% of ads?
In general this is all very grey and I'm not sure who's right
@BenjaminGruenbaum of course, philosophy is probably the oldest subject of study :-P
16:46
I wonder if there's a philosophy course on this :D
user1596138
I don't think there is a right tbh. It just comes down to abilities.
Like, philosophy of piracy or terms misuse - sounds like something I'd love hearing/taking
@LuckyKleinschmidt you don't think there's a right as in "there is no right or wrong" or specifically in the context of adblockers?
user1596138
In the context of ad blockers
I think if a user does not run code that a company has on their site, the company is within their rights to refuse service to that user... you have to agree to their terms to use their service. In cases of governments or local/municipal utilities or things that are human rights... it's a different matter
user1596138
I think if you can find a way to block me for blockoing your ads you absolutely have the right to do so. And I think if I want to disable images I have the right to do so. Whether that's a specific image, all images that match an algo, etc
16:48
E.g. if a site detects you are using adblockers, it's fine if they don't show you content. Their business model is their choice. The market will either bear that decision or not bear it
user1596138
^ I like the wild west mentality towards ad blockers
user1596138
Anything goes. If you can make it actually work (both sides)
user1596138
I just use Stylebot and Domain Blocker to either hide anti-ad-block or domain block sites I want to remember not to revisit :P
user1596138
Like Forbes. God there needs to be an extension that makes sure you NEVER see anything to do with Forbes
The forbes print is pretty decent but I also really dislike their website
16:52
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh god, yeah
and the ones now where they superimpose the article you're reading over the main site, so if you click outside the margins of the article it just closes it and you're back on the main site
It's not even about content protection or money, that's just god awful UX/UI
Newspaper websites like WSJ or NYT are the few sites I actually support being ad-based or paywall-based, because they literally would not exist anymore without it
user1596138
Wikipedia has expenses a thousand times more than the web presence of WSJ or NYT. Guess what no ads
user1596138
All I'm saying is there are plenty of models to exist on. I worked for 3 years at a company that made 100% of profit from ads (print/web)
they have ads
they just only have their own ads
we all get blasted with them once or twice a year
user1596138
16:55
Then they do a good job not being in my face about it
> pls donate
user1596138
Oh that's different.
same end goal, and as intrusive
so I don't consider it much different
user1596138
Much less intrusive, much more effective
user1596138
It is a single banner.
16:56
a huge banner in the head is much less intrusive than a small ad on the sidebar?
yea, I disagree.
user1596138
There aren't 18 instances on the page haha
user1596138
Wikipedia does not run ads in the same sense as WSJ or NYT
user1596138
That's what I said and it's true. They ask for donations.
user1596138
They don't advertise anything but the fact they need your cash haha. It is not an advertisement.
user1596138
!!define ad
17:00
wikipedia donation banners are advertisements for continuing the service that wikipedia provides
it is advertising the fact that without your donations, the site won't exist or will have to charge/run classic ads
You just contradicted yourself. "They don't advertise anything but needing your cash. It's not an advertisement"
user1596138
I misused the term
But it is. It's a notice about needing your cash to continue their services
user1596138
Very deliberately.
user1596138
You know what an advertisement is right
user1596138
17:02
In the context of web, print, TV, radio, etc. It is not an announcement
an advertisement is a notice of a product, service, good, or other marketable/presentable noun
user1596138
Eh, it's just pedantism now. Anyone not doing their best to be a pedant can totally understand the above convo
user1596138
Enjoy!
that's like a mix between a tu quoque response and a no true scotsman response
Hi! :)
17:07
@Shad hey
@Shad Hey !
@TylerH perhaps even some ad hominem
no pun intended, lol
Omg, so many legends here!
@KendallFrey didn't want to pile it on...
thinking about it I guess to quoque is technically a specific type of ad hominem
The longest substring without repeating characters of "dvdf" is 2 or 3?
17:16
I'd interpret that as 3
@TylerH Not exactly. It's more about "your argument is flawed too"
ya vdf it fooled me the first time i saw it.
Is documentation the best way to get hang on jQuery?
@Shad documention is the only way to go.
good luck
18:15
JS room is dead :(
sneaks through
it's not dead
i'm still here
as long as kevin is here we are good
@Rick funny reference but didn't care for the movie to much though
I the important take away is to follow the way of valhalla
Is there any point in making a different "unique user id" than the "id/serial" column in the database?
maybe
if one is meant to be more human readable
@paul23 what database are you using if yeah kevin is right
18:40
like a uuid vs an aiid
sometimes databases give out horridly long user ids
auto incrementing id's can be problematic when you have a distributed database
you can make it shorter essentially
hmm but something like "34129fe0-05a3-55bd-bee3-562f13b359dc" instead of just in incrementing number has no real use right? THe only thing is with just using the number one can see if another user would also exist.
you can still randomize them to lower numbers
to prevent some issues
18:43
@KevinB let the client generate the Id
While true, I'm wondering if there's real benefit from hiding the actual internally used ids. (Benefit would be not having to lookup the user first when having to check join-tables)
@Rick Right, but how do they know which id to generate?
fingerprintiong their work station and use that as their id.
so a uuid
not an auto incrementing id
i don't understand what point you're making
it solves the distributed database problem and id clashing
18:48
the only ways to keep an autoincrementing id from being duplicated is to not use auto incrementing id's, only allow inserts on master, or to do a system-wide lock on insert.
that would no longer be an auto incrementing id
it would be more like what mongodb does so that it doesn't have to do a system-wide lock.
Or you can avoid all that by having the client generate it.
...
you're not making any sense
do you know about fingerprinting?
yes
you're creating an id that is unique to the client
and therefore can't clash with others
that would be NOT an autoincrementing id
correct
18:51
you're just making my point
if it's not incrementing, how is it guaranteed to be unique?
but your solution still involves a lot of work
i never provided a solution...
You'll have to still send a "list of all ids" to the end user to make sure he generates a unique id.
O I thought the whole lockdown thing was the solution?
18:54
And since it's distributed you have to put a lock around it while the id is being generated to prevent collisions. So a systemwide lock need to happen.
paul23 you are incorrect
auto-incrementing doesn't guarantee uniqueness without a lock on the slaves or only allowing inserts on master
you can also auto-increment per slave
so you end up with slave id + auto increment
(the way mongodb does it, only it uses timestamps)
so each user is associated with a slave
@KevinB indeed, so the I'm back to wondering why not "just use autoincrement and always lock the all systems in the distributed db if a new entry is inserted"
locking is expensive
18:56
yes but I can't see any other way to prevent collisions, the other option is to sometimes throw
from my understanding slaves have replication problems
@KendallFrey but specifically that your argument is flawed because you have not behaved in a way consistent with your argument
if it were just that 'your argument is flawed' then it is not a fallacy but solid logic
there are several solutions to the problem, some better than others, but they're all valid
@TylerH Oh right, that's not the way yourlogicalfallacyis describes it
Also cordinating between slaves and masters is also problamatic, hadoop!
18:59
mssql for example has an option that makes the slaves readonly
so any time an insert needs to occur, it has to happen on the master, but you can read freely from the slaves

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