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5:00 PM
Matt is that the grand daddy of the windows 7 Side bar ?
 
user1385191
that's the default install of win95
 
user1385191
complete with the installer that never explicitly asks for a username
 
user1385191
ah; looks like try/catch and throw were ES 3
 
user1385191
which was 1999
 
so no IE4 support? :(
 
user1385191
5:03 PM
I'd have to ditch Utils.raise to even test it
 
@Esailija a feature request for your media player
please implement a way to store the media lib
please
 
what do you mean
only youtube songs can be saved
local files cannot
maybe with putting the files to the chrome web filesystem but meh
 
posted on June 04, 2012

After a long silence. Some entries are from end of last year. Your donation for keeping this series up and running would be much appreciated. In order to accomodate the huge increase of mobile data traffic the iPhone caused, US carriers had to significantly upgrade their networks. That eventually involves making changes in the physical towers themselves, and that requires sending people u

 
@MattMcDonald You could define throw and use it like a function
 
user1385191
I could also use conditional compilation, but that would be so ugly
 
user1385191
wow
 
user1385191
yeah; throw and try are JScript 5.0
 
user1385191
apply and call being 5.5 explains one of many reasons why $ will never reach beyond IE 6
 
ohh how I miss these days...
 
user1385191
hasOwnProperty is 5.5 and for…in is 5.0
 
user1385191
5:20 PM
yikes
 
ie4 should have .insertAdjacentHtml though :D
 
user1385191
IE 4 was basically the first DOM Core implementation
 
user1385191
which is why I want to test it
 
^ (one of the) first car ever....
I have no inkling to test anything on it.
Why we want to test code against IE4 is... well... beyond me.
 
5:34 PM
Anything made by microsoft, no thank you....
 
@Justin MS led the show when it came to browsers / innovation until the early 2000's
point is, that was 12--almost 13 years ago.
I've had pets die of old age since then
 
user1385191
> We test in every browser we can get our hands on. It helps to expose cracks in the feature testing logic. Whether the browser is still in use today is irrelevant for these purposes. The point is that if the testing logic is without gaps, applications are more likely to work in the unknown environments that matter most…
 
user1385191
that sums it up for me
 
You're right.... Then they fell behind, and only have the lions share of Browser Usage because all these idiots haven't been forced to get a real browser... So, if we as developers stop supporting IE completely and instead redirect IE users to download firefix or chrome -- the internet becomes a better place
 
user1385191
 
5:36 PM
testing, ok... but you full on fallback for features that exist in every browser since 2006
maybe not in your utils... just seen you do it.
 
user1385191
I don't cater to any one browser
 
document.layers?
document.all?
 
user1385191
IE 5 exposed a crack in my document sniffing
 
are those needed in ie4
 
user1385191
myLib has a fallback to document.all, but I don't bother
 
5:37 PM
@Justin meet Internet Explorer 10
and hush your real browser banner
 
IE10 == FF4
Nice to know they have caught up with 4 years ago
 
user1385191
IE 10 is going to be a very good browser
 
:P
 
@rlemon you sure about that ?
 
user1385191
there's a ton of deprecation
 
yea, IE10 isn't bad. but they are still missing some stuff. @Abhishek it was an exaggeration
 
Till IE 10 comes it out will be atleast equivalent to FF 10
 
IE10? Made by microsoft -- Will still be garbage
 
user1385191
@Justin I presume that you've never been forced to use IE on a locked-down Windows machine. It must be nice to be able to spout off browser elitism.
 
IE10 is their 'saving grace' but it is still at least a year behind all other major players (Chrome / FF, idk about Opera of Safari)
 
5:39 PM
scroll down till the bottom :P
 
user1385191
the IE team is supposedly the biggest in the industry
 
Implementation 88% == Chromes Implementation of CSS
 
Now, I've never been forced to use IE... I've also never been on a locked-down Windows machine... But, I'm also the IT guy here at work -- and run on Linux... No Microsoft Products for me ;)
 
user1385191
I hope that you never talk about user experience, because your attitude will infuriate certain users.
 
I agree IE 10 is still lacking a lot
@Justin you are lucky we are not ^_^
 
user1385191
5:41 PM
government agencies in Canada still use XP for better or for worse
 
Most of the stuff that I program these days, are all internal apps -- so I force the use of either Firefox or Chrome....
 
user1385191
now that means IE 8, but they're still ages behind
 
goverment agencies in most of the world still uses windows XP because they probably dont want to spend more on buying a powerful machine to support vista or 7 or 8 as XP serves nice on the architecture they have
 
But for the stuff that I do make for the masses, it still seems to work in IE as I've never had any complaints -- but I don't natively support it...
 
user1385191
I had to work hard to convince my mother to let me nuke XP and install Debian
 
5:42 PM
lol
 
lol
 
user1385191
and it almost backfired because she didn't even know her password to her email account
 
oh boy
 
user1385191
that old laptop runs much quicker now
 
ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS MY LATEST VERSION OF CHROME RUNS FINE IN XP / LINUX / MAC(?) - IE10 FAILS HARD HERE
 
5:43 PM
Matt ever tried Puppy Linux ?
 
so to use a 'usable' IE, I have to run one of MS's latest (currently is) OS's?
 
Yeah, this laptop had windows on it the day the company bought it for me -- got it and put my linux on it...
 
yea chrome running on XP is pretty incredible
 
There is a rumour that MS IE 10 will have backwords compitablity
 
@Abhishek you're missing the point.
 
5:44 PM
i know
don't worry ^_^
 
MS should make a platform independent Browser
 
You shouldn't be using overly much Javascript on websites anyway and I don't think IE 6 users expect webapplications to work. Just my 2 cents
 
and i am not advocating Microsoft
 
Like all other browser vendors.
 
Does Safari works on Linux ?
 
5:45 PM
"Internet Explorer 10 is not currently available for Windows 7" So, you MUST use windows 8 in order to even use IE10
 
IDK, i run Chrome exclusively.
 
user1385191
IE 6 users are likely to be ones who don't know how to complain online
 
@Justin thats so because its still in beta
I run chrome aswell :D
 
user1385191
so the "we've had no complaints about dropping IE" statement is quite fallacious
 
but i see no point in browser-descrimination being developer
 
5:45 PM
Everything Microsoft makes should still be in beta... haha
 
@Justin try windows 8
 
user1385191
closing off doors on an open platform is so dumb
 
on a touch supported device ^^
 
user1385191
if your page degrades, no doors are closed
 
and btw Justin i don't know if you know this but microsoft has changed drastically
 
5:46 PM
@Justin where as I tend to agree IE sucks, and MS is, for lack of a better term, shitty, it is still an innovator.
 
If users are still using IE6, they don't deserve to see the internet anyway...
 
and now is actively trying to take part in OSS
 
and has lead the industry for 10+ years
 
for example Azure SDK/PowerShell for Node.js
 
user1385191
@Justin so now you're a social darwinist?
 
5:47 PM
lol
 
So alienating all MS products / services is ignorant and dumb, understanding that in the recent years they have focused on enterprise solutions and moved away from the consumer market is just, well, obvious.
this leaves there consumer products sub-par at best.
 
Justin before you throw away all microsoft products
have you ever used C# ? or .NET ? or Windows Azure ?
 
unless you are "a PC", then you created W7 and you have nothing to bitch about.
 
user1385191
if you get feature testing right, you don't have to whine about IE
 
No, I just refuse to support software that people shouldn't be using.... such as IE7 or below.... Forcing these people to upgrade, makes our job as developers easier because we don't have to continually test for 50 versions of the browser..
 
user1385191
5:49 PM
stop writing open source code on an open platform then
 
It doesnt force them to upgrade, unless you have the market cornered.
They will just move on from you to someone who does support them
 
^ that, it's sad but true
people are lazy
 
^
and stubborn
 
10 seconds to upgrade their browser, 4 seconds to click the next link.
 
user1385191
XP has been around for 11 years; we should know how to support it by now
 
5:49 PM
they will agree to install a plugin but the idea of new web-browser scares them
 
@MattMcDonald I've been around for 26 years, should my mom still be wiping my ass?
 
user1385191
there's a glut of documentation on IE <= 8
 
I see both sides to the argument, we need to support less dated software, but we also cannot just willy nilly 'drop' support here and there.
 
You only can if you dont care about losing potentially 50% of users
idk, IE7 annoys me because I cant use fancy stuff with it, but meh, I can still accomplish what I need to
 
IE6 should no longer be a concern. 2% of users can be lost, and the corporate market users very specific software, and generally are limited to it... i'm sure RBC doesn't mind that your cool new blog doesn't run on their pc's.
 
5:52 PM
By looking at usage of some of my sites... In one day on one of the sites, we had 30,000 users.... Of those 30,000 users only 10,000 were using IE... of those 10,000 only 17 were using less than IE 8.... 1 was still using IE3... Think I care about 17 people who can't order? Not really...
 
yeah IE6 support is dead imo
 
IE6 was gone years ago..
 
@Justin yeah tailor your stuff to your stats, that makes sense
 
it's IE7's turn now
 
user1385191
@Loktar pages shouldn't look the same in all browsers anyways
 
user1385191
5:52 PM
degrade to static content that doesn't insult the user
 
nothing looks nice in IE8<
not even static content
 
user1385191
I think the docs I've written look nice in a ton of browsers
 
user1385191
they're even passable in IE 4
 
I care that my pages work in IE9< but that is about it.
 
On saturday I had 21k people
33% used IE
and 5% used Ie7
 
5:53 PM
they have to be readable, and functional.
 
so yeah meh, its not super important for me to support it either
 
user1385191
IE 9, oddly enough, displays list-style-type: square really oddly
 
but its not like its difficult either so idk
.67% were using IE6 (51 people)
heh wow, and 66% were using IE9
I should look at my own stats more often
 
yeah see lol....
 
user1385191
5:55 PM
the browser version is irrelevant
 
@Justin show that your user ^_^
 
user1385191
the feature should be the concern
 
@MattMcDonald just surprised how many are using IE9 compared to the other vs's
 
@MattMcDonald how is the browser version irrelevant? You telling me you still support netscape navigator?
 
<!--[if lte IE 9]>
    <style>
          * { backgorund-color: green !important; color: yellow !important; }
    </style>
<![endif]-->
 
5:56 PM
a year ago 1,700 on the same day were using IE7
and 66% were using IE8
 
^ make your pages work in IE, but conditionally make your users suffer for using IE
 
even in 2010 on the same day I had about 400 people using IE6
bleh I need to punch IE <9 support on my site
I mostly am concerned with how it looks, so like my rounded corners are JS based, just dumb crap like that
 
@Justin HTML isn't about pixel detailed rendering. If you don't do that it's easy to catch all browsers
 
About 5 months ago I was dealing with a Media company that specializes in driving traffic that was still using FF 3 and IE 4
 
user1385191
@Justin I've found that rarely will a feature only err in one version of one browser
 
5:59 PM
@copy yes, but older browsers also don't support many of the newer javascript methods.... Which makes cross-browser support for older browsers a near impossible task without re-writing the same function for each version..
 

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