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22:01
@KendallFrey I for one welcome our new robot overlords.
@Loktar So, feed it its own output?
@simeg depends what features/functionality you want to include
@usrrname Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
I mean instead of feeding it the input of someone talking to it in a known language feed it some from a movie
@usrrname simple DOM manipulation. I found this which I will try: github.com/kylebarrow/chibi
unless you got something else to recommend?
@Loktar Oh my god, haha.
@simeg looks like jquery, or am I missing something? i don't have much experience beyond Angular 1.X and took a dip with React. I would say last few years people have been on either camp, and both require somewhat of a mental learning curve and strives to modularize code. This year seems like it's between Vue and Aurelia.
@Loktar i can't believe i just watched all that
user2620028
yeah i just watched it too. They should rick roll it
@usrrname yeah it reminds of jQuery, the api looks very much like it but it's a lot smaller. I've worked with angular and react and they are nice, but do not serve the purpose of this small application I'm building. Thanks for the tips.
I'd like to try Vue but it's a complete overkill for this app, hehe
22:10
@simeg don't manipulate the DOM
it's just asking for trouble
in a small app, a very small one, React is equally terse
@ssube I'm sick of React though, my work involves building a React app and I want to try something else
ah, if it's for educational purposes, do whatevs
do employers prefer maybe 2-3 big projects and only a few small ones, or many small ones showing different techniques and and like 1 big project? All subjective ofc
@towc they prefer experience
am thinking whether to just keep on doing demos, or something useful
22:13
get an internship
not yet
@towc I'd say big ones. My company asks for projects during interviews (which I don't really like)
going to wait a few months to see how to get by, but I'll start looking into it
Need halp in D3: I am formatting the time as d3.time.format("%b %e %-I:%M %p"); but I want the %-I:%M %p part to be on a new line. How do I achieve this? I tried \n and <br> which dint work
then it's better to show this big cool app than showing 10 small ones
22:14
@simeg what's your company?
@towc Spotify
oh
the projects I put on my resume are a large(ish) working webhook server and a dependency injection library
so they don't care if you can adapt to a lot of environments as much as whether you can bring a product through to the end?
@towc they typically only care about one environment
the one they're running
22:15
fair enough
being able to adapt is good for you, not them
it means you have more options, it doesn't do much for any one option
well, adapting means that they can make you work on multiple teams, and that you can go up the ladder
I'm just about to head out. Came to the js room looking for the docker one, ha!
variety for its own sake will waste your time
@towc yes and no, depending on the company and how they look at software engineers. If they are looking for a frontend JS dev they don't really care for stuff you've written in Java
22:16
Great to hear from you all :)
@towc but that you probably won't be good enough to lead any team or be a long term asset
if I was 25 or similar, sure
otherwise it means that I have a lot of potential that I can use
lol
or not...
no, it just means you can't focus
22:17
alright
that you'll probably need a lot of attention
so time to find a good project to invest time into
oh, also, how much do they care if you contribute to open source?
that might also be a good thing
some companies care, others don't
but yeah it never hurts
it's never a bad thing
I've got a few puppet modules and some JS libraries, I think
alright then, I'll look for some interesting ones
22:18
you'll learn a lot from it, nonetheless
yeah, true
my most substantial contributions are probably es6 feature debates
but it also helps show you know multiple tools without having to reimplement them
you wrote a game? Nice, you should add some images in the readme
you would be right at home writing C
22:21
or even better - gifs
oh shit I wrote that
that code's so much more than I thought
and it's actually quite bad
awwwwh <3
it would be more of a surprise if you were writing well laid out code at your age/experience
that's something you have to pick up over time
I think this was before I started hating jQuery
last commit was 3 years ago :,)
I was frigging 13 when I wrote that
and put a local windows file path in it -_-
it was back when you had a working computer?
heh, funny -_-
it was back when I was on a baby laptop
holy fuck, the art was still better than what I can do today
wtf happened in the last 3 years?
22:25
@towc imma head out, but gl on finding a internship/job :)
I think I discovered rainbows
@simeg hf
drugs will do that to you
or, rainbows, w/e
I was a minecraft addict back then, I think that explains it
you should have gotten the humble apps bundle from a few weeks ago with a bunch of art tools
and game dev stuff, issue/project tracking tools
I think I now kind of understand when I get messages from people saying that they were impressed by my github stuff, I haven't roamed through it in ages. I guess not all of them were automatic recruitment
for example, would you use yield instead of this, to display level titles, given that after a certain level, something else happens? github.com/towc/glitch-maze/blob/master/index.js#L134
and omg I used to know c# 0.o
well, "know"
22:37
@towc your game is broken?
which one?
dastul
nvm
lol
yeah, broken
it uses local paths and stuff
No, I thought it launched from main.js
lol
youtube.com/watch?v=vlXQ4KjRwCw well that's terrifying and awesome
user2620028
22:51
@rlemon no belt guard and it aims right at you.... i expect the v1.01 to be out soon with a belt guard and a hospital bill
with a heavy duty guard I can see it working out.
but that demo scares me
user2620028
hahaha just need to have a small loop on it somewhere to catch it if it derails
however, if it was bolted to a workbench... that's a neat little way to build a small 1" belt sander
user2620028
cant really do much about the belt snapping
skip to 7:25
user2620028
22:54
yeah i saw haha
if a rest api doesn't have an option to do a "dry run" of the api's state changes, does that mean that testing a client library is out of the question?
user2620028
thats what made me say it needed a catch for if the belt derailed
23:04
@rlemon "So it makes too much dust I think I can use it"
lol what?
a joke
> it's messy and brutal. gets the russian stamp of approval
user2620028
im guessing the best use of this would be for sanding edges til they don't exist?
I'd put a backplate on it and use it to put bevels on knives
(after I clamped it to a bench)
user2620028
@rlemon have you ever used corner clamps? i think they are quite possibly the best thing ever
no but I just watched a video on DIY ones
like.. just
looks like it exists in that form
was only familiar with the larger ones
user2620028
ayy a safer one lol
I have a desktop belt sander, I'd love a 2xwhatever belt grinder
something compact like this
ideally one I can hook to my bench grinder I already have
user2620028
the corner clamps are amazing. the amount of precision you can get with them is worth it alone
23:11
they're so simple tho, I don't see why I should buy one vs making it
user2620028
then make one... just put more design into safety than he did haha
is it actually a good idea to use socket.io for time-sensitive games?
there is a pretty nice DIY one
that dude knows wtf he is doing though
only the last like 30 seconds show it in action
@towc depends on the nature of the data you're sending/receiving.
izzy swan, john heisz, and matthias wandel all have nice DIY ones that just use spare electric motors
23:13
relatively small amount
all offer plans (I think all three) as well
If the client needs to send somethign to the server before the server knows what to respond with, then there isn't much gained in using websockets instead of http is there?
say, 8 floats par connection
oh no, I was thinking that maybe there was something faster but still easy to use, without much middle stuff
why use socket.io over just plain jane websockets (for non-production use, you're just doing a learning app)
good point actually
user2620028
23:14
websockets was much faster in my experience
you won't find anything faster than the network can send it,
@towc for the server tho I recommend github.com/websockets/ws
you want to minimize the amount of data you're sending
last time I tried to learn about pure websockets, I was still testing html code by ftping into a windows server and connecting through the domain name
i want thumb drives you can rigth on.... come on! cheap to
23:15
1 hour ago, by rlemon
go home bill, you're drunk
I've been drunk every other night since I got laid off... I'm taking a break from drinking until I get to Florida, at which time I will be drunk for a week straight
oh wait wtf, basic socketio is almost exactly the same as basic ws
yeah, just a slightly easier interface
as in, almost everything I know in socket.io has exactly the same syntax as ws
but native WS are easy enough
23:18
@towc it is the jQuery of websockets
oh ewwwwwww
the benefits are mostly the fallbacks to long polling without implementing it yourself
wait, not sure if you're joking or not
and I guess the rooms and shit
it's not as impactful, I guess
23:18
it was the gold standard.
if you don't need what it adds, or the fallbacks, you don't need it
It's like jQuery in that it provides fallbacks for older browsers, but otherwise doesn't do much
well, I guess it's good to learn both
what would most company environments use? I guess socket.io?
@Loktar what's that one you tote? it's a shell so you can replace w/e socket lib you want
correct?
they may use anything.
> Effortless switching between real-time frameworks by changing one single line of code. No more API rewrites needed when your project requirements change, the framework gets abandoned or simply breaks down.
23:20
alright, I'll start practicing ws and then learn about how socket does things better
I still think tho that if you're trying to learn about websockets, you should use vanilla websockets to do that. then decide what features/support you want or need
yeah, exactly
well, I think I feel comfortable enough to at least read socket and ws code, I'll definitely get back to it soon to make an actual project
now, has anyone here ever worked in an environment with koa (express-like node module)?
23:28
corvid is our authority on the overhyped new framework
@corvid get your ass over here
btw, if I ever sound rude, I'd love for people to tell me, as most of the things I say I see as jokes. Whenver you read from something I write, remember I'm a teen who hasn't been hit by life and reality yet
learn es6/react/nodejs/express/nginx and if you really want electron
it's the best stack
and use postgres
and you'll need gulp and webpack
postgres and redis on the backend, electron and chrome on the front
typescript + jquery
gulp or make
user1596138
23:30
I have a React Conf code that anyone can have. I won the lottery but I am not going. You have 48 hours to purchase. HTTPS://conf.react.com ping me if youll go. Otherwise my code goes to the next in line.
he can't install arch
I've given up on gulp
user1596138
Can we sticky that
gulp > make
Tabs, definitely tabs
user1596138
23:30
In case someone wants to go
docs.google.com/document/d/… ← plz add here :D
@Jhawins heh, site refused to connect
which one is it?
pinned
You gotta be fucking kidding me with these single-letter variable names!! O____o
@towc make a website that uses express/node/nginx/ws on the server to give you an api, and react/mobx/webpack to give you the front end app. make it do something simple stupid like manage your list of things to watch/learn/do
uuuh, a movie suggestion thing, I guess I could always have used that :P
23:33
don't shoot for the stars man
well, it would just be a board in the end, with a name and description
shoot for the head.
you don't need a 'suggestion' thing. just make a glorified todo app
we're all bored in the end
that's what the gods invented raves for
yeah, I guess I can start with that
the todo app of things to learn
23:34
use it to make a boilerplate app you can reference and improve on in the future
raves? Pft, just give me a bottle of wine, and a new season of Bob's Burgers
or rick and morty
no
I've never seen rick and morty
yEs!1!
Your loss.
No, yours
23:38
@towc make me a todo list that refreshes every daay
I keep forgetting to brush my teeth
well, forget no more! Presenting you, todo app #4123523
actually, that's a good idea
allow the user to set the refresh time
allow him to add attributes to every todo, with the basic most important one being done or not
You're in for a huge world of hurt if you start allowing custom fields...
others being represented by a string and a possible 0-1 intensity, which can be either viewed indipendently or by color/boldness
@ndugger am I?
you don't need ustom fields, just allow them to create any number of labels with a selectable color
I remember when I thought I could tackle a mountain before I learned how to climb a hill. we all did it
23:41
:p
Welcome to enterprise software, where everything is custom, and nothing means anything
do the simplest app first. then one more complex. then more complex
@rlemon well, sure, but did you regret aiming to tackle the mountain?
yes
yes
23:41
yes
oh
I got overwhelmed and gave up
you can't roll up the mountain on your face, learn to walk a bit
I always thought that by trying to think of the full thing I'd end up forcing myself to learn more and more
ok, I'll start with the basic app
it's incredibly hard to visualize every part of your application
23:42
but that's part of what makes a good programmer for a company, right?
that's why any good documentation generator has a graphing program
Which is why DBA is so fucking terrible
absolutely not
being able to have the whole project in mind when working in single modules
It's also far more fun in the begninning when your getting all the plumbing together, then really boring in the end when you're trying to implement all of those bells and whistles and just want to be done
23:43
you have to be aware of the rest of the project, you don't have to know everything about it
@towc I'd say a good programmer can ignore all of that and focus on the smaller task at hand
communicating with the other teams is far more valuable than knowing everything yourself
I would say companies would prefer someone who can focus better
if you're the twat whose code can't be read by anybody else, it doesn't matter how much of it you can read
if you instead make the task much smaller, then make new tasks to improve it, you might enjoy it more
23:43
it shouldn't matter how modules hook up if I've done my job well. but you don't need to build a full CMS on your first run
alright then
I might as well practice my git and make it a repo
you all agree on an API and language, then do your task with clearly contracted inputs and outputs
breaks linux install
in a language like TS, you can define the typedef ahead of time
so, rlemon, you suggested "express/node/nginx/ws on the server to give you an api, and react/mobx/webpack", right?
I still need to learn how to use nginx, mobx, webpack, and how to use react the way it was meant to be used
23:45
if react is new, i'd skip mobx until react is familiar.
so I'll get to that
@towc keep in mind we're not saying don't build the larger things. just maybe don't try to do them on your first go. make some trivial things that you can accomplish in a day and that teach you an aspect of the technologies invovled
how do you list devices by uuid
@rlemon yeah, sure, dw, thanks
stupid disk mounts
hurr durr fast storage
23:48
@towc maybe start with react/webpack on the front end (webpack to handle the babel/modules, scss <best choice:D> and all of that bundling jazz) and react to do the interfaces. and express/websockets on the back end. you can learn how to put node behind a better server in the future
oh wait, people still use babel for es6?
!!caniuse es6
oh, IE still has no support
does babel do the jsx transform or does webpack do that alone?
usually babel
pretty sure
23:50
(truth, I copied everything that does that from @Luggage)
yea, babel.
well, can't you just have a module that compiles files in jsx format to vanilla and reference the end-product?
well, technically, a babel plugin.
@towc it's called babel
I see
23:52
babel isn't just a es6/7->es5 compiler
it is a universal compiler
but do you just babel a file into another, or just parse it as something and output as something else.... wait that's basically the same thing
I guess I have more googling to do
user1596138
Ah shit I put the wrong URL in that
with webpack you'll have it generate all of your files into one
I may not want that for this project, but I guess it's good as I can learn more about it and earn a bit more bragging rights
you don't care about the output
user1596138
23:54
I have a React Conf code that anyone can have. I won the lottery but I am not going. You have 48 hours to purchase. conf.reactjs.org ping me if youll go. Otherwise my code goes to the next in line.
4
browsers care about that
well, you use the output
you care about the code going in
user1596138
@towc lol better?
user1596138
OK wtf
23:54
@Jhawins cheers
nope
user1596138
Now
@rlemon oh right, that's the whole idea about developing, right...
user1596138
Yeah now it's correct. Yeesh sorry lol
@Jhawins http
I get errors with https
user1596138
Too bad
23:55
@towc there are tools to make debugging easier. React dev tools for chrome and source maps both make things a lot better
user1596138
It's fb site. They should have good certs lol
they don't
no, it uses a github.org cert.
user1596138
Fine I updated it again hahaha
that works
user1596138
23:56
Somebody better take that fuckin ticket lol
@Jhawins it uses http now, that's bad
user1596138
Ur bad
Yer*
@rlemon ok, I need to get my priorities straight for what to do first. Right now I'm just picking things almost at random, and it's not working really well
so, first things first, I guess webpack
9 mins ago, by rlemon
@towc maybe start with react/webpack on the front end (webpack to handle the babel/modules, scss <best choice:D> and all of that bundling jazz) and react to do the interfaces. and express/websockets on the back end. you can learn how to put node behind a better server in the future
23:58
then babel, then making react development easier...
there are tuts on both respectively
yeah sure
thanks
is webpack 2 very different than 1?
oh yis
Not from your perspective of writing a webpack config, no, but the underlying code, yeah
which one should I go for? both?
23:59
anything but both
jquery
webpack 2 was just released, right? So I guess many companies still use 1?
1 has documentation and lots of SO questions.

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