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GGG
GGG
19:00
and this is clearly win95 so...
ahhh yes this was pre ie6 so i was on NN4
Microsoft Internet Explorer 2 (abbreviated as IE2) is a graphical web browser released on November 22, 1995 by Microsoft for Windows 95 and Windows NT and in April 1996 for Apple Macintosh and Windows 3.1. Version 2 launched with twelve languages including English but this expanded to 24 for Windows 95, 20 for Windows 3.1, and 9 for the Macintosh by April 1996. It lacked many features that became common in later IE versions, including the Blue 'e' logo, integration with Windows Explorer, and bundled programs. Its market share was also much lower than later versions. During its tenure, IE...
i remember 98 SE
oh lawd those were the times
im lazy, i dont develop for browsers past ie6
GGG
GGG
so basically netscape was way ahead of ie at this point
rather ie7
yep
and ie7 is soon to be deprecated
19:02
ie wasn't even intended to be a full fledged browser at first...it was just a demo of windows' web browser component
user1385191
Opera and IE were to first to really implement CSS
GGG
GGG
does anyone remember the weird internal browser in the AOL software
yes
YOUVE GOT MAIL
lol
GGG
GGG
predating the netscape thing obviously
yeah it couldn't do background images or anything for a while
19:03
you all remember free internet, that company that had free discs and you could get free 56k
GGG
GGG
and then i think thye bought up netscape at some point
or a free 1800 number
GGG
GGG
hmm no... i remember running some kind of generator that would generate credit card numbers that AOL would somehow accept as valid even though they were completely fabricated... i can't even fathom how they allowed that to happen
hah thats awesome.
GGG
GGG
yeah, Bank Of America ones worked the best
i had like ten accounts on there at any given time, they'd get closed down eventually and i'd open a new one
the bad old days, when it took all afternoon to download sim city 2000
19:08
i remember my first cd burner
so, i've asked this before... got some good suggestions. What should I write in Javascript? Any ideas for something that would really expose me to good JS patterns/stuff?
@Mike ooh, if it would just stop to exist....
whats that @GNi33
ie7
ah
user1385191
19:10
@ThomasShields recursion
down to the mid 20 percential, soon ... soon enough!
ever did some right to left - templating for it?
Ever tried reading jQuery source code? Do it. You'll laugh. Or cry. Especially `$.fn.attr`
user1385191
@RyanKinal my style is massively in flux
19:11
@MattMcDonald awesome. thanks.
@tereško why you dig up old memories :(
@ThomasShields Learn data structures. Implement them, and the functions that act on them (searches in particular).
GGG
GGG
@Raynos so you've discovered the joys of watching other people disect jquery...
@Raynos Those were dark times :-P
@FlorianMargaine @AndyE
user1385191
19:12
you might want to buy the gang of four book as well and try to implement the patterns in JS
Alright :)
user1385191
when I get back into working, that's probably my first purchase
@tereško ;_; @Raynos Y U STUPID
I think Addy Osmani's article is pretty awesome when it comes to js patterns
it is almost painful to read , @Raynos
19:14
@RyanKinal thanks; sounds fun
user1385191
I'd ignore him whenever possible
user1385191
his knowledge of the DOM <= 0
yeah?
I wouldn't ignore Addy Osmani
he aggregates some good information
I would just take it with a lot of salt
For example, for backbone I would read this book on backbone
Actually, for backbone, I'd tell you to GTFO and stop using backbone, but ...
@Raynos: I guess you want to stay fully CommonJS compliant? :p
well
now, going to install ubuntu!
19:20
Latest installment of WTF COWORKERS!?!?: spDynamicSurveyGetDynamicSurveyQuestionAnswers
what in lords name is that @RyanKinal
@RyanKinal what. the. heck.
loooong obj name is long
i presume
It's a stored procedure, but yes
19:21
@RyanKinal 1) buy matches 2) find stick 3) light stick on fire 4) burn coworkers
or throw acid in their face
Hey, the chat works ok on android
yes it does
<3 stackexchange on android.
Guess they did a real good job
i hate it when sites dont work right in newer browsers
howtf is that possible
19:25
@FlorianMargaine what?
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@Mike maybe they're using an old version of jquery
rofl
doubtful
site only works in IE7
goto IE8, and crap breaks, chrome... crap breaks, firefox, crap breaks lol
user1385191
@Mike ...AND INTRODUCING FOR ONE TIME ONLY: USER-AGENT SNIFFING!!!
lol Matt
@MattMcDonald like

if(ie7){
// do stuff
}else{
window = undefined;
}
user1385191
19:35
yep
I wonder how much rep I lose downvoting noobs
user1385191
670 down
user1385191
14 down
user1385191
lol
GGG
GGG
@Raynos i kind of gave up on downvotes, been flagging it up like a madman instead
19:38
390 up
516 down
Filefrontier is nearly fixed now
1125 up, 670 down
Looks a little better
except that
19:41
=P
just a tip, put your javascripts in the footer
aaand check validation errors on css3
er 2.1
windows-1252 ?! are you fcking kidding me ?
looks great in chrome
in ie8 too
should throw an alert window or something, if someone tries to click upload without a file selected
<td><a href="javascript:;" class="btn primary">Signup</a></td>
wtf ?!
that way it doesnt just throw an exception
and why there is HTML after </html> ??
19:45
lol @ teresko
i believe hes trying for javascript:void(0);
lol
concatenate your css files into one css3 file thatll minimize http requests, same with any of your own external js files (if any). move non essential JS to footer. Take html out of after </html>
fcking auto correct, into one CSS file
and @HarryBeasant fix that javascript:; :)
user1385191
what's the phrase again?
user1385191
"don't cast stones from a glass house"?
whos casting stones
i dont have a house
user1385191
[don't blame IE for breaking your site when you don't have a clue how to author HTML]
How could one cast from house to stone anyway?
19:51
write ton of documentation, stand back. Don't like API change API, stand back, go "Fuck, I have to rewrite all those docs"
2
i guess stone is somewhere in the prototype-chain of house, so...
user1385191
stones tend to break glass houses
lots of things break glass houses
ceramic
brick
steel, titanium, chrom-oly, aluminum
@Raynos Then go Meh, screw that. I'll leave it like that. and call it Android.
@OctavianDamiean lol
GGG
GGG
19:57
@Raynos unless you're FB, then just leave the old docs up with a bunch of broken links and confusing misleading garbage
okay, so i'm pretty sure i understood this before, but just to be sure: can someone check this and confirm the comments: jsbin.com/ujuwem/2/edit
GGG
GGG
jsbin is actually broken for me in chrome 17
hasn't worked since i upgraded
...well that sucks. jsfiddles
Use jsfiddle. :)
GGG
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i really liked a few things about jsbin too
GGG
GGG
like global vars didn't get hidden in a closure, you don't have to do window.everything like fiddle
and you can hide the panes you don't want
and the tabbing doesn't suck
and real time updates
in Android, Jan 17 at 19:42, by nil
It's awesome shut up I don't like you eat rocks
Just sayin'.
@GGG im rewriting the docs and examples :P
user1385191
anyone want to give this a spin?
recur() wins.
interate wins once you cache parent.childNodes lookup
user1385191
recursive still wins for me in Opera
recursive still wins in IE10, too
user1385191
surprised to see it that close
20:17
my machine is garbage
hence the slow scores
user1385191
I'm building Utils on recursion and wondering how much of a speed hit it will take
Raynos Version -> Chrome 17, loop's way faster
user1385191
I just noticed how ridiculously similar the W3 & jsPerf favicons are
GGG
GGG
@MattMcDonald recursion smoked loops. wonder why...
i am beginning to suspect that my laptop upclocking and downclocking itself as it sees fit is distorting jsperfs
oh here's a great title
"How to select for something that begins with a string but doesn't end with a different string in jQuery?"
20:40
How do I do login, restfully?
i'd say, you don't. the auth info would be passed along with each request
you could authenticate for each request, of course, but the very idea of "logging in" implies a session, and that ain't restful
GGG
GGG
@cHao you know xhr sends cookies right
@Raynos just do it like a normal login, remember their session, put an id in a cookie
wfm
:(
thats not REST
GGG
GGG
no, that's authentication
the rest is REST
Y U NO REST
20:50
lol
GGG
GGG
i do need rest
@Raynos , isn't RESTful authentication what people call oxymoron ?
-4
Q: canvas html5 help me

adailtonhow do I add a new player when he enters the game? the function of my player is the one below: function drawMap(){ var tileH = 25; var tileW = 50; for(i=0;i<map.length;i++){ for(j=0;j<map[i].length;j++){ var drawTile= map[i][j]; var drawObj ...

@tereško no..you can authenticate without maintaining state. you just have to do it on each request
20:54
#6: HTTP authentication is done automatically on every message.
you are talking about tokens , @cHao
nope.
i'm talking about authentication. i don't care about the method.
when it comes to REST , method is important
you could simply pass the username and password every time. i mean, http was built to handle that
that's a security issue on so many levels ...
GGG
GGG
20:56
but what if sessions aren't irrelevant?
Bob
Bob
Hi
@GGG then what you have isn't rest.
GGG
GGG
yeah i wanted sessions
its like rest
no, it's not.
rest is, by definition, stateless.
GGG
GGG
then what is it like
20:56
if you want to have sessions, it ain't rest.
GGG
GGG
if it's not like rest
it must be like something
it's like sessions. :P
GGG
GGG
i will make a name for it
then it will be all good
lol
GGG
GGG
restsions
20:57
long as you don't call it rest, we're good :)
Bob
Bob
I have been reading about Responsive Web design. I noticed the grid layout of ordering things. Is that some sort of convention for making the pages scale or is that the way it is done always?
@all anyone want to ask an ajax question?
@GGG , you have to start by learning that REST stands for Representational state transfer
@Chorche i don't have any at the moment. thanks for your concern, though.
@Chorche , just the fact that you call it AJAX and not XHR makes me want to NOT ask you any questions
20:59
lol
GGG
GGG
@tereško "Representational state transfer" ... i'm listening
and nodding off to the lull of the boring words on wikipedia
heh
user1385191
9 messages moved to bin
user1385191
yum
Bob
Bob
21:16
When using fluid layouts you probably use percentages when defining the margin/padding etc. How do you calculate this so it appear nicely?
GGG
GGG
@tereško this looks really good, thanks. Reading now. I like his hat.
@Bob Don't. Fluid layouts are tricky if you include margins and padding in the layout. If, however, you separate layout and content, then it becomes trivial.
GGG
GGG
@Bob avoid combining padding and width in the same element and you'll more or less be off the hook
as far as box model weirdness goes
Bob
Bob
Okey, so you apply the padding etc on the content tags?
GGG
GGG
21:19
<thing with width><thing with padding></thing></thing>
Bob
Bob
But shouldn't you use %?
GGG
GGG
The protocol examples here are only illustrative, I didn't feel it was worthwhile to code and test them up, so there may be problems in the detail
@Bob Well, you could, but fluid layouts are more about, well, layout, than content.
GGG
GGG
dammit Martin Fowler give me teh codez
I'd suggest using em, actually
GGG
GGG
21:22
somebody's gonna have to call the EMS if he doesn't knock off the dumb questions
oh now you changed it
put it back to ems ;p
Bob
Bob
@RyanKinal So, em is preferred over pixels?
It looked dumb. Sorry.
GGG
GGG
alright i gotta get out of the swamp of pox here and ascend to restful greatness
@Bob Yeah. That way it scales with font size. Which is probably more appropriate for content.
So, layouts in %, content in em
Bob
Bob
@RyanKinal Sorry for stupid questions, normally developing backend software. So 1 em is equal to the default font size in the browser right? How would you for example make a 10 pixel padding in em's?
I mean, how do you "know" that the em size you make look ok/good?
user1385191
21:26
@GGG his code tends to be kind of ugly
user1385191
that's about my only complaint with Fowler
@Bob You'd have to do some calculation. (desired font size) / (container font size) = (ems)
Or (desired pixel size) / (container font size) = (ems)
Bob
Bob
What is the container font size?
... whatever the font size happens to be in that container.
Bob
Bob
in em's?
21:30
Actually, in pixels
GGG
GGG
"hypermedia controls" = paging?
@Bob you basically find something that looks good for you, tweak it a bit to look decent for the other browsers you support, and call it a day. if you go for perfectly identical renderings in every browser, you'll drive yourself crazy
Bob
Bob
So is h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6, p and so on always the same sizes by default in different browsers?
For the most part, yeah
Bob
Bob
I mean, h1 = 24px, h2=22px etc
I don't know if this is right though
Ok, so if you haven't set the font size in the container you check what the default size of that tag would be in the browser?
GGG
GGG
21:33
@Bob what are you making
Bob
Bob
Mobile website
@GGG "hypermedia controls" basically means "resources are linked" -- a "customer" resource might have an attribute/property/whatever that contains the url where it can be modified, etc.
GGG
GGG
ew
ok
(@cHao)
@Bob Usually, 16px. But you can always set it.
GGG
GGG
@Bob brochureware or an app?
Bob
Bob
21:35
app
GGG
GGG
what does it do
in as specific terms as you can disclose
Bob
Bob
Displays a list basically with a header
nothing fancy
GGG
GGG
then stop worrying so much
about display
if it's a page publishing app, worry about the exact sizes of your fonts
Bob
Bob
sorry, what do you mean about page publishing app?
GGG
GGG
if not, find some other website that looks good and rip off their font rules
just do like 10px helvetica like fb and call it a day
Bob
Bob
21:37
yea
So it is most common to use em on padding/margins etc when using liquid layouts?
GGG
GGG
@tereško that article didn't really address auth... if you had a restful system and needed to add auth to it, how would you handle that?
em is like an accessibility thing so ppl can change their font size (ctrl+scroll) and stuff scales with it
the stuff that you want to scale relative to the text, specify in ems
i would look at how OAuth works
Bob
Bob
@ggg is padding etc one thing that you normally wants to do that with?
@GGG , no ir is like accessibility thing so ppl can change default font size for the browser and all the pages scale accordingly
GGG
GGG
isn't that pretty much what i said
except i'm doing it with the mouse wheel and you're changing the default?
Bob
Bob
21:42
lol
GGG
GGG
oh right they scale all the images and crap too now, forgot about that
i guess i don't ctrl+scroll much
people with sight impairments need pages to scale by default , and not just to zoom in on some porn
GGG
GGG
true
Bob
Bob
haha
GGG
GGG
the thing is, though, em is not necessarily better for everything even in that case
like if they need a huge font, a 10px padding might still be fine... making the padding much bigger might make text unreadable
21:45
actually it is better, if your designer know that web design is not the same as print
Bob
Bob
yeah, I understand
GGG
GGG
i don't know, it always depends on the situation i think
like em units act weird on borders
Bob
Bob
So using pixels on padding/margin isn't necessary "bad", it depends
GGG
GGG
and weirdly different between browsers, and at different font sizes
and at small font sizes they just disappear
(on borders)
Bob
Bob
Okey, thank you for your help:)
21:47
actually it is bad to use pixel units
Bob
Bob
what is bad? pixels?
So what do you use for padding in a liquid layout then?
what liquid layout ?
Bob
Bob
When you specify the layout in percentages
isn't that what it is called?
if you need percentages , then you use percentages .. there is nothing wrong with them
Bob
Bob
But when you have some content inside that you want to apply padding on
then you said using pixels was bad so what do you use?
GGG
GGG
21:55
@tereško i just got what you were saying earlier. The way most sites do things is specify the font size once, in pixels, on the body. Users that are severely visually impaired almost always have at least custom settings like minimum font size in their browser, but also usually stuff in the OS that integrates screen readers and jacks up the font size across the board.
the good ones will do the rest of the font sizing as percentages, and most of the layout stuff as percentages, with some of the text padding stuff done in em
last time i checked, anyway
and that's why government sites always have the font switcher
because they have fixed sizes everywhere, and if user tries to manually change font size , page just breaks
iran.embassy.gov.au << like here
0
Q: Working with Mobile Device Orientation Detection

JamesEggersOne hassle with working with mobile websites is inconsistency between how the device reports the screen's width and height. James Pearce wrote a fantastic article about the headaches that come with detecting screen width and height from JavaScript. Furthermore, not all mobile devices support wi...

GGG
GGG
Yeah i think a lot of times gov't is required to have that stuff, they have stupid accessibility rules
22:14
the "stupid rules" are there to make sure that everyone can use the site
GGG
GGG
22:43
right... everyone. Including the relatively small number of people who are just impaired enough to need that font changer button, but not badly enough to have some kind of general purpose tool to deal with it already, or they're too poor or unfortunate or whatever to have such a tool... which sucks...
market-driven sites don't bother with that kind of stuff, because that small subset of users is probably not worth worrying about.
not all the impaired users, just the totally helpless ones
anyway gotta take off, see you guys later
23:03
trippy Y U NO ABOUT DRUGS
@Raynos try untappd :P
I dont want social beers
I want trips
trippy trip trips
23:36
press f12 in chrome, go to console, put:
document.getElementById('sidebar').style.overflowY='auto';
now you can see the starred comments when you click on "show 5 more"

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