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11:00 PM
I love HTWFAIP, but I don't agree with parts of it and it's not how you win an argument with multiple participants.
Some people use debates to get leverage. Not to feel good about themselves.
 
Familiar with the concept, explain more pls?
 
HTWFAIP assumes everyone is driven by a sense of self importance you should nurture in order to well... win friends and influence people.
There is a very certain strategy I employ when I argue with people who are using the argument as a way to either be lazy, or gain strategic value in the project. I'm not proud of it but it's very effective.
I perform some of the most horrible logical fallacies to.
 
including the "Misuse of to/too/two fallacy"? // I keed, I keed!
 
First, I use a lot of terms I know they won't understand that I've read in articles.
I appeal a lot to the authority of the people who've written these articles when I do that too.
So, I make it seem that when you're arguing with me about your synchronization problem in our DB, you're arguing with Dijkstra - for instance.
 
Doing black magic ui-router hacks... added some comments:
//             _     _  _____  _     _          ______  _______    _______ ______  _______ _______ ______  _____ ______   ______
//            | |   | |/ ___ \| |   | |     /\ (_____ \(_______)  (_______)  ___ \(_______|_______|_____ \(_____)  ___ \ / _____)
//            | |___| | |   | | |   | |    /  \ _____) )_____      _____  | |   | |_       _____   _____) )  _  | |   | | /  ___
//             \_____/| |   | | |   | |   / /\ (_____ (|  ___)    |  ___) | |   | | |     |  ___) (_____ (  | | | |   | | | (___)
 
11:04 PM
gard to read font
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oooh, yeah, I've totally done that.
 
After I use a lot of confusing (though correct) terminology, and explaining all the research that went to basically saying I'm right. I go to on to describe all the cases the alternative approach fails. I never make it seem like I have a favorite.
It's never "We should do A"
It's "We could do A as MrFoo suggests or we could do B, personally I'm still thinking about it"
 
"One of the best books I've read on $TOPIC said to do it $MY_WAY"
 
Then I descrbe A's advantages.
However, (assuming I want B) I display really unimportant advantages I know we don't really care about.
For example "If we ever switch our relational database to XML, and start using big XML files to store our data - A would be better, are there plans to do that?"
"If we ever want to put this code on embedded devices, A might be beneficial because..."
The implied notion here is that we'll be spending time being compatible with stuff we don't care about with A so it's not an advantage but a disadvantage.
I then proceed describing B, I go on to describe the advantages of B and they always speak about real business value. I describe successful projects that did B and how easy it was but I make it seem as if I'm not talking about our usage of B. It's never "We'll be done in 3 weeks if we do B", it's "TeamBar did B and they were done fast, although they now can't convert their databases to XML or publish to embedded devices, I think they're satisfied with the results".
I take every opportunity to punish MrFoo for not knowing unimportant detail, being snarky but not downright rude.
"Oh, so you don't know what the E programming language is? Don't worry about it, I didn't know about it when I started programming too - you should check it out it really opened my eyes"
I argue fast, I argue loud and I argue dirty when I have to.
I've been bitten once too many by not arguing when I should have, ever since I'm very keen on arguing at the design phase to not get shit in the fan in production.
"It's ok, I used to make that mistake when I learned OOP for the first time, it's very common"
4
 
^ brutal.
But so good.
 
11:10 PM
When arguing against someone who isn't looking for constructive enhancement of knowledge, I go dirty.
Of course, I rarely resort to these tactics, most of our communication in TipRanks, and more generally at previous places I've worked at was good.
I gladly resort to them when the alternative is a mistake I know will cost us a lot in the future.
Group/Set theory trivia and intricate math details go a long way when arguing against completely irrelevant things in security - but if I have to quiz someone who has never done university level math at something irrelevant in order to prevent the team from rolling their own crypto - count me in.
 
takes notes
One I've used with much success comes from Scott Adams, of all people.
Don't say much during a meeting - let everyone tear each other's ideas to shreds. I usually subtly goad them on.
 
Probably shouldn't, the 'correct' thing is to communicate better as a team and to define ownership. I feel that it's a problem most software shops have.
 
once everyone's all tuckered out and hates all the ideas that aren't theirs, speak up. "Well, there were a lot of different ideas here, and I think there's something good in each of them. As everyone's been discussing, I've been putting together something that takes the best from each"
@BenjaminGruenbaum This is not quite universal - works best when most are already the argumentative type.
 
I don't know, software engineers should not be that argumentative on everything, I do a lot of "I think we should do X but Y is sufficiently OK that it's not a huge deal". This is what lets me be more argumentative on the stuff I care about.
 
oh, I used this in a shop where "Software Engineer" wasn't mentioned - nothing so fancy described anything that went on there.
it was ... weird.
 
11:20 PM
googled portal 2 and this came out
 
I don't use it here, for exactly those reasons.
 
@towc cave johnson
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum ?
 
11:20 PM
jinx
 
@NathanJones mine is better
:P
 
Mine's the best.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum <biggest wat ever chatted>
 
but mine's completely sensible, right?
 
11:45 PM
So I just heard from a coworker that he managed to git reset --hard every single commit for the past month and he pushed it hard up to remote. Pretend there doesn't exist a local repo that has the deleted commits. Does this mean he's getting fired?
 
decided the theme for my platformer: portal in 2 dimensions?
 
@wonton git reflog
I'll take my payment in USD
@wonton when do you graduate?
> Expected Graduation: May 2015 (bachelors) December 2015 (masters)
ah, there we go
Ever thought about dropping out early to join a startup?
 
Im working at one right now actually
lots of startups have tried to recruit me but I haven't seen one that really shines enough to justify dumping a BS+MS
 
where?
 
small company, rather not say since the question i just asked would make them look grossly incompetent
 
11:53 PM
Finish your BSc
 
@wonton sorry, fat fingers
 
reflog shows stuff you did locally
 
which means if the person who did the push deletes the local repo then we have a problem?
@BenjaminGruenbaum what about it
 
@wonton ...I'm skeptical. You have zero computers that touched the missing commits?
what happened to them?
 
11:55 PM
@wonton also if he deletes all local repos, the daily backups, and the remote.
 
Is there a wild wood chipper running around?
 
Hello! I am doing stuff w/ fabricjs. I am stuck - I do an ajax call to load canvas data from the server. That works great, however I have a draw function and when I change the color (using spectrumjs) it deletes the canvas background color. I am just trying to store the background color as a global so I can insert it in the drawing function and maintain the background color when it is clicked. Any suggestions?
 
@ScottFloyd Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
did I completely fail at portal 2 style? (this is just a not-random map and some resprites, more to come)
 
Have you played Portal 2?
 
11:58 PM
@SomeKittens nope. But I guess that looking at people playing it is enough?
 
No. That may work for some games, but not Portal 2.
 
:(
anyway, gotta sleep
 
It's an absolutely fantastic game. You should play it.
 

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