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user1596138
17:00
@benlevywebdesign type ls to see what's in a directory.
play.google.com/store/apps/… this a patch @OctavianDamiean ???
wait what I am I doing in terminal in the first place?
@MirkoCianfarani That's idiocy.
@copy ^2
We started off with a php code script...
@benlevywebdesign What the hell are you doing with PHP in the first place?
user1596138
17:03
@benlevywebdesign You can do it in just about any language.
Especially for a task which shells are made for
user1596138
@copy PHP has system access. In Interactive Shell it can do just about anything you would do in a bash shell, in a PHP shell. Lots of people use it that way.
Also this app is idiocy? @OctavianDamiean play.google.com/store/apps/…
@Jhawins alright, PHP is not meant for system tasks. If you do that, you should get fur on your palms.
user1596138
@MirkoCianfarani No, that is a patch delivered as an app. So an app.
17:05
I admit that I'm back with the knowledge of programming
I don't want to point fingers but I asked if using @import for a lot of stylesheets was bad and found out yes it is and then I got this php script from someone(you know who you are) about pulling the files together
user1596138
@OctavianDamiean I mean I don't see the point. Just the syntax would suck to do in a shell. I was just saying people do it and I knew he didn't know how to use a terminal.
I don't even know what we're talking about but PHP ain't the answer.
user1596138
Had he needed to keep the files separate, but didn't want to run all the @import's he could have done it with PHP (which is his next class).
user1596138
@OctavianDamiean Actually it really is. It's his next class, so showing him how to do something useful with it is good.
17:08
Something useful with PHP, that's a joke in itself.
user1596138
@benlevywebdesign That was to keep the files separate but avoid using all the @imports. You don't need it though.
ah ok well since I am still learning php I am still at that step of using the script
user1596138
You would create a file called $fileName.php and inside of it you would put the script.
ok let me do that
and when I manually combined each css file it messed things up.
user1596138
Then this isn't going to help.
17:11
@benlevywebdesign if possible at all, ditch PHP until it isn't too late and pick something smart instead.
This isn't a PHP room but a JavaScript room. This means that the policy is to speak about anything except PHP.
user1596138
> ditch PHP until it isn't too late. . . smart . . .
@OctavianDamiean suggestion?
python with flask is a good choice
@mikedidthis Smalltalk obviously
17:12
@mikedidthis Python or Ruby (but not nodejs)
@mikedidthis Python, Node.js or Ruby.
ok well I have about 14 separate css files(part of a framework) that I need to combine or link to my page and I already tired manually merging them together into one css file but that fcked things up
@OctavianDamiean Sorry, I meant for @benlevywebdesign I already read most the python book to learn about objects :D
user1596138
I honestly don't think it's ok to deter so many people from PHP. Fact of the matter is that you people just don't like it. You also don't like Java, but there are thousands of careers waiting for Java developers, and PHP developers. So who made you god of programming languages?
@Jhawins its the internet remember, where everyone has an opinion and lets you know it :D
Unrelated, but do you Python / Ruby folks use Coffeescript as well?
17:15
@Jhawins mistakes from the past from when I was actually developing in mentioned languages.
@Jhawins You can never in life argue by popularity, and the fact that PHP sucks is widely accepted with well stated arguments
@Jhawins there are other rooms for these people
4
user1596138
I'm not saying either is any good. Just that they do exist and will for the for the foreseeable future.
Holler homeboys
@Jhawins Which doesn't make using them more valid.
17:16
so any suggestions about all the css files. I read that @import is bad for more than like 2 files.
Going through 100+ stored procedures manually, checking for problems
all because the database was poorly designed
I made myself god of programming languages. I wrote it down in a book. Is true
user1596138
@OctavianDamiean Actually it does.
!!> (typeof rlemon === "God of Programming Languages") === true
17:18
@eazimmerman false
@Jhawins If you don't see the contradiction in your message, well then you don't see it.
user1596138
Why do we get stuck making sure extremely old versions of IE are still supported. Because people are idiots and they won't stop using it. Same with PHP and Java.
People who come into this room with PHP/JAVA questions are just making cries for help.
b-b-b-but rlemon is defined!
@Jhawins Uhm, we know that people are idiots but that doesn't mean we developers must be idiots as well.
17:19
@Jhawins Businesses force it. Such as those using old POS systems
so best way to link like 14 separate stylesheets when combining them fucked shit up
i need to use cookies with CURL using nodejs
any help ?
@benlevywebdesign I don't have an answer, but a question. Why 14 stylesheets?
@mikedidthis I have a question: why not?
we have a couple of projects with dozen of css files
way to go to modularize your css
I am using a framework(I guess that is what this is) and that how the css is
17:21
we have some projects with 4k LOC css files
I rather have 100 files with 40 lines each.
user1596138
> In the end, there's plenty about PHP to complain about, but what does it all really mean? Sure, it's hard to make it run fast, but that clearly hasn't stopped anyone from using it, and the same is true of Ruby and people still rave about it. Sure, there are eldritch horrors and idiotic design decisions aplenty, but what language doesn't have those? You can completely avoid enough of them that the ones you can't avoid make life no worse than it would be if you used another language.
@FlorianMargaine that was what I was querying it for, I was unsure.
@FlorianMargaine reduce the number of HTTP requests made by a browser during page refresh/load
modularization is fine in development, but these should be merged / minified come production.
@mikedidthis so thats why 14 and when I combined them into one shit got messed up
@rlemon we both know Florian has that covered :D
@benlevywebdesign as in messed up how?
17:23
divs.css, spans.css, ps.css, brs.css, body.css, html.css, title.css, etc...
@mikedidthis the statement still had to be made.
one module shouldn't overwrite the other?
@benlevywebdesign order matters.
@Jhawins Yep, that's how the PHP people manage to not need truckloads of painkillers and alcoho l.
@rlemon of course that's for development
user1596138
17:24
25
A: How to break the "php is a bad language" paradigm?

Explosion PillsThe only answer I have is this: everything sucks. You can find tons of arguments against OOP being any good (a quick search will reveal them) versus functional or procedural programming. You seem to indicate that PHP's OO support defends it. Google blank sucks and you will find results for anyt...

If you keep telling yourself that something is true, eventually it will be true.
user1596138
Kind of stupid question and rightfully closed. But the answer is good too.
@Jhawins you can't avoid the bad parts in PHP though
user1596138
@FlorianMargaine What unavoidable problems have you run into in PHP?
@Jhawins most languages are bad, we're more forgiving of some. less of others. the 'others' are bad languages in our eyes. This is true for everyone dealing with everything ever. get used to it.
PHP is horrible.
(goes back to php development)
17:25
@mikedidthis yes the order I put it in which was alphabetically(they opened that way too) fucked it up
Oh yea, I forgot that @FlorianMargaine is (or was?) a real deal PHP developer, he has to know.
@Jhawins ok I created the php file (sorry for being slow, doing many things at once)
user1596138
@rlemon That's all I was trying to say. Everyone is going to bitch about something always. This room just seems to be almost all against PHP and I wondered why.
@Jhawins because PHP is bad.
for a lot of reasons
so is Java
user1596138
None of the other rooms/communities I've used have ever had this kind of prejudice against it. I mean yeah they hate Java, but everyone hates Java even more so than PHP.
17:27
and so is JS
now go into another room and see how much people think "js" is a joke language they use to make things hide / display
@Jhawins I'm also completely against Java.
Not only PHP.
user1596138
@rlemon That was going to be my next statement... Haha
How do I make my php server run Java code on the client?
@eazimmerman Using a hammer and loads of drugs.
@Shmiddty I think I put it in the same order as the min css file
user1596138
17:29
I understand it's just a difference of opinion, at least I haven't seen enough reasons to think otherwise. I really am interested in what you have to say @Florian.
there are literally thousands of blog posts / articles outlining what is wrong with said languages.
most bitch about the same stuff, so it is pretty easy to see what is factual and what is just a pissed off developer who doesn't like the syntax.
user1596138
Sturgeon's Revelation.
user1596138
> 90% of everything is crap.
The other 10%? My penis.
Quick background info, I've been developing PHP for a couple of years (it was also my first programming language), and then I've also been hired to maintain a PHP back-end. So, I've used it a bit more than just writing a "Hello World" example.
17:33
@Shmiddty yup I put it in the same order
@Jhawins If you got a job, it's a different story, of course (you have to use what they tell you), but if you have a choice, you should pick the tools for the task, and in that regard, PHP is inferior to other languages like Python and Ruby
@OctavianDamiean same with me, PHP is my most used server side language, and i've been using it on and off since the late 90's
user1596138
@copy Thank you for sharing your opinion.
user1596138
Examples were more of what I was hoping for... Google only ever led me to believe it's just an opinion.
17:36
@OctavianDamiean yeah, unfortunately
@Jhawins every single function in PHP is called in a different way
user1596138
@copy Read that a long time ago.
@copy I was just about to link that
consistency is not a word that PHP knows
it is a really good article.
> Do not tell me that “good developers can write good code in any language”, or bad developers blah blah. That doesn’t mean anything. A good carpenter can drive in a nail with either a rock or a hammer, but how many carpenters do you see bashing stuff with rocks? Part of what makes a good developer is the ability to choose the tools that work best.
then you have the old functions, procedural style, and you have a mix a new OOP shiny objects
17:37
this is probably the paragraph I enjoyed the most (as it is the most heard argument I've come a crossed)
then you try to write OOP in PHP, and you find yourself with effin ugly old functions in the middle of nowhere
just because it's php
I don't like PHP but I disagree with
> I can’t even point out any single damning thing
There are reasons why PHP was so popular
That's undeniable.
To begin with, the fact you could just type some code and directly refresh the page was long without equivalent in the server side language world
Whether it were good reason or not is another question.
Meh, Perl did that too.
user1596138
17:39
@FlorianMargaine I was hoping you could come up with real-world examples that effected you. If a problem exists, but only in a case that doesn't often occur, it isn't that bad. At that point we can point out the uncommon but still real problems in every language. We can find philosophical flaws in their designs if we want. But they still all have problems.
And it made DBMS use easy for many people, without too much ORL nonsense
"foo" == TRUE, and "foo" == 0… but, of course, TRUE != 0.
123 == "123foo"… although "123" != "123foo"
@Jhawins did you try working with array_map and array_filter?
NULL < -1, and NULL == 0
there are bad parts in JS
but you can easily avoid them
in PHP, you just have to work with them, you're forced to
user1596138
17:41
@FlorianMargaine Yeah, I was using array_filter last week. And @rlemon was looking for something similar in another language I believe.
TIL ternary in PHP is left associative ....
o_O
@Jhawins then see the order of the arguments of these 2 functions
@FlorianMargaine That's not true, and for the same reasons, I would rather pick Python than nodejs
user1596138
No wait you were doing something else.
@OctavianDamiean Awesome, thanks for the heads up!
17:42
@copy what do you mean? Callback hell?
user1596138
@FlorianMargaine You're not forced to do anything. I ask why a commonly used function isn't already in JS (not the reverse thing) and the answer is "add it yourself."
@OctavianDamiean No, obj.nonexistentproperty === undefined, 3 + "foo", etc. All the non-strictness
how about variable names are case-sensitive, function and class names are not.
as I told you yesterday, I've never used this in PHP or JS.
17:44
how does this even make sense design wise?
user1596138
In PHP there are a lot of functions not implemented in JS that really are useful.
user1596138
That doesn't make JS bad, or inferior. That just means it doesn't have it and you have to write it yourself.
@Jhawins For example ?
@Jhawins that's most likely due to the different problems both languages were meant to solve.
user1596138
17:45
@dystroy strrev() has actual uses, and I realized JS doesn't have a way to do that by default just yesterday.
@Jhawins What uses?
@JuanC. Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
I've never used it either in all the years.
user1596138
Instead you have to split the string into an array, reverse the array, then join the array.
@Jhawins Having such a function in standard looks stupid. How many times in your life do you need that ?
17:45
I would expect php to have a lot more templating functions, but having a lot of functions to choose from doesn't make it a good language
user1596138
@dystroy What?
having those functions sensibly layed out, with sensible consistent arguments and names, under proper namespaces... that would be nice
having operators do what (almost) every other language has them do would be nice
user1596138
@rlemon I wasn't saying that. Not just because it has a lot.
but just having them doesn't make it a good language.
user1596138
I can agree that PHP has problems.
17:47
I'm still failing to see you provide arguments other than strrev() and why strrev() would be essential.
Why are we using strrev?
Eval exists, I don't use it.
Unless I'm writing malicious attack code, but that's different.
@Incognito Or answering zirak questions
user1596138
@OctavianDamiean I used it processing somewhat inconsistent data.
Somewhat inconsistent meaning it was reversed?
@Jhawins In JS, instead of looking for an existing function you'd use once in your life, you just would have used the standard ones, like in
'abcd'.split('').reverse().join('')
17:50
And the big surprise is that under the hood, PHP doesn't do anything else.
user1596138
I had a few thousand strings to process, each one having at minimum 6 different types of values.
0
Q: How to insert Highcharts JS into a blog post

Scott HelmeI'm trying to insert Highcharts JS into one of my blog posts. Inserting the code into the text view didn't work and seemed messy anyway. I've also tried using wp_register_script() and wp_enqueue_script() in functions.php global $post; if( is_page() || is_single() ) { switch($post->

user1596138
This argument is a matter of opinion, in my opinion. Which leaves me with a paradox. Thanks for your inputs.
@andymagoon Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
but realize this argument is happening a couple dozen times a day (at least) with devs all over the world. and the overwhelming stance is that PHP is a horribly designed language with a mess of functions that almost work, but not as you would first expect them to.
and a lot of people use php, and continue using php now
17:53
can confirm
lol
-2
Q: Python trouble with while loop

Lior RaifIm trying to do a while loop in python and its not working and I have no idea why can someone check it out? while x != "exit" and y !="exit": { x= raw_input("Enter your name: ") y= raw_input("Enter your grade: ") y=int (y) } print ("Goodbye") It is telling me that x= raw_input("Enter your nam...

user1596138
Not so much. Maybe here, but using the Google you can find arguments for each side from all over the world.
@Jhawins Just like "having sex with animals is wrong" is an opinion?
4
user1596138
@Shmiddty I would define morals as a personal choice, or an opinion.
but the rest of the world disagrees.
user1596138
17:54
I believe it's wrong, for me to do it anyway, but somebody else might not and who am I to decide what they have to believe.
@Jhawins isn't it a personal opinion based on your morals?
I think I should be king of the planet, but no one is agreeing with me.
user1596138
There are cannibalism tribes. Is it wrong for them to do what they want on their own land?
yes
just like the countries that allow you to marry and fuck little kids are wrong
and if you defend them then you are a horrible person
@rlemon I agree with your, but that is our opinion, which I imagine most will share?
17:56
Wait a minute, isn't it illegal to have intercourse with animals? I believe that's illegal.
@OctavianDamiean not with dead animals in some countries
@OctavianDamiean I believe that depends on where you're from.
@OctavianDamiean in an overwhelming amount of countries + US states it is not.
like... USA.
17:57
Zoophilia and the law looks at the laws governing humans having sex with animals around the world. Legal context Laws on bestiality tend to be shaped by animal welfare concerns, moral views and cultural beliefs. Animal welfare bodies usually, but not always, view zoophilia as a matter of animal abuse. Recent legislation For centuries, sexual acts with animals were penalized under sodomy or "crime against nature" laws. Since the 1950s most such general laws have been repealed and in some places they have been replaced by laws which are specifically anti-bestiality. Most of these new ...
yea
seriously. a retarded amount of places. I expected maybe 3-4. not that many
Alright, despite all the chocolate I just ate, that just gave me a sad.
user1596138
People are free to do what they please. When a group of people that have the same general beliefs are put together, they (in the past) formed countries/tribes/groups and lived by their own laws. In Colorado you can legally smoke a blunt, but in Indiana you can't. That's because the majority of the people in that area decided that's what they want to do. If you want to do it too, you can move there. If you disagree, you can leave.
So... apparently my work computer no longer resolves chat.so.com
@RyanKinal Were you bitten!? Strip! Prove you weren't bitten.
@Jhawins you smoking your blunt isn't the same as fucking an animal or eating another person
17:58
@RyanKinal uh oh.
you really need to stop making comparisons that don't even touch the same ballpark of rationals.
user1596138
This is basic fundamental freedom.
My ass.
@Shaz really?
I love when people misinterpret freedom with "do whatever the fuck I want because I can"
user1596138
17:59
I won't argue it about any specific thing, whether it be homosexuality (which was just as wrong as banging a horse to the general public not too long ago) or having multiple wives. People have their own beliefs and I can't say that they can't do what they want. But we can say they can't do it here.

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