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13:00
I didnt have to change any of my js code either, so damn easy man
@Loktar Define normal
well in the tech sense Id say non devs/non tinkerers :P
I should have used regular
> ok to get this to work you need to download canary, and then point chrome to this bin directory
wut..? I just want to play
Anyone wants to come?
@Shaz Is the webkit code style that ugly? :D
I'm considering. Branden Eich and Lars Bak coming
13:05
@ThiefMaster Luckily I don't build web engines, so I don't know. I would hope not. :p
@Loktar did you see: quick.as/y5uozj
@mikedidthis I like how the time is shown in the tab for the video
Neat idea
French people here - will you be there?
@Raynos will you be there?
Oh, i just had the timeout set too low. And some requests we're cancelled... A look on the Network tab did it... I'm so stupid.
@BenjaminGruenbaum I know Florian will try to go there
13:09
in Room for PHPGeek and Loktar, 1 min ago, by ThiefMaster
If you had posted the link to the question in the JS room instead of invitespamming people (I do see how many invites you have sent...) I'd have helped you.
In case anyone else here thinks inviting people to a separate room makes them more likely to help.
2
@dystroy @FlorianMargaine you coming is a big motivator for me :P
really.
If I had a company paying for it I'd probably go
I don't think work will pay for going there, maybe just the convention tickets - we'll see.
Anyone coming to dotjs - ping me.
3
@BenjaminGruenbaum wow, that lineup ... if I'd have the money I'd totally go.
Hooooly shit... I totally want to go.
13:16
There are so many people there I want to meet. There's Lars Bak, Addy Osmani, Brandan Eich
No kidding
There is also a workshop day before which can be interesting.
$(".username:contains(Shaz)").css("color", "#4979b9");
@FLCL Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
Nice name?
13:19
@Zirak I wish you could come - too bad today you die.
Man, sorry, now I'm bound by nature to hate you.
@mikedidthis nope
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well then how about you don't stab me in the face repeatedly?
13:20
hehe, love the name.
It's more you falling on my knife multiple times :P
Potato, potato...
damn lol was hoping I would win
its cool how he did it though fairest I've seen
@BenjaminGruenbaum Unfortunately I won't come : my wife is supposed to give birth at the same time
13:22
I would have liked to meet you :(
@dystroy Hope it goes well. We'll meet each other next time.
@Zirak I'm a hearth attack victim...
@dystroy That's when I stopped playing...
@dystroy Fuck that
@Shaz I've seen FLCL, biatch
13:24
Lol
That's why I'm bound by nature to hate him.
oh, someone will also need to host the bot. @rlemon said he may be able to, I've got vibes from @OctavianDamiean (but it may just be him checking out my muscular abs).
Brendan Eich?!
goddamn it
EXACTLY
I have to go
Yes. You do.
13:28
I'm so pressuring my boss
I've been interacting with him on the list a lot. Also, I might be there which is just as important if not more.
wait, you might come?
ok, I cancel everything.
@FlorianMargaine 2.9
You can even teach me lisp
... alright, I'm coming.
13:29
If you know what he means
shall I come with Simon's book? :>
@SimonSarris come to dotjs so you can sign my book
Yeah, please come
@Zirak you're wrong my friend. 1st we were talking about dynamic scopes and not variables and there, ECMAscript does not use any kind of dynamic scoping. Its strictly lexically still.
ok, agreed.
Well...
FINE
13:31
BITE IT
:p
@jAndy That's a blunt lie and you know it.
@Zirak Do you even lift bro? :D
JavaScript has dynamic scoping in with statement, and in ES6 it might have more :P
@BenjaminGruenbaum I guess you're hard trolling now
even with with it NOT dynamic scoping
@Zirak, are you scared of doing foory coory on you?
13:33
Sure it is... with is a form of dynamic scoping.
lol
function Q(y)
{
  var x = 123;
  with(y)
    return x;
}
print(Q({ x : 456 })); // 456
print(Q(789));         // 123
I'm too lazy to explain because it takes several pages
read this
come back
Meaning of x changes based on y. How is this not dynamic scoping?
@FLCL Well, I haven't overflown in a while now.
13:34
@jAndy you're joking :P I get it
its not dynamic scoping
it may look like it for a novice
You obviously know I've read that article... I've even talked about it here several times.
The meaning of x changes based on y in runtime in that with statement, how is that not dynamic scoping?
with just extend the chain and switches orders very simply spoken
This is exactly dynamic scoping.
@jAndy Congratulations on describing dynamic scoping without using any of the words.
:)
13:36
its faked tho
@Zirak I went til the end but it's disappointing. You're greeted with a "to be continued". It seems the game is still unfinished.
get it
No, it's dynamic scoping.
This is exactly dynamic scoping.
With is dynamic scoping, resolution can't be done in compile time and it changes contextually based on the with statement.
@dystroy "Deeper sleep" is a sequel, so it's part of a series
It requires a lookup matrix, that's even how it's implemented.
@jAndy Just think about it for a while. It's not faked, it in fact is a form of dynamic scoping.
13:38
I'm just searching a good definition of what I'm trying to say with my pure english to rub it into your faces :P
it only looks like dynamic scoping, but its anything but that
Or Brandan Eich, we discussed the issue last week by the way. Look it up in es-discuss (about scoped extension methods)
@dystroy Before a couple of months you pasted a link of js and face recognition. do you still have that link ?
That said, I don't like with.
13:39
But go ahead, do by all means show me how better than Eric Lippert of Brandan Eich you got scoping in JS. Find a way to say it with your pute english. Educate them.
@RoyiNamir Twas probably not me
@OctavianDamiean Very few people like it.
@dystroy I almost positive it was you :-) ( i even tested it on the beatles image and you replied it)....i'll search in the transcript
@BenjaminGruenbaum link me to where Eich said ECMAscript has dynamic scoping
@JanDvorak , @dystroy that command works
[ : one of my friends tried it :D
13:41
@AbhishekHingnikar What command ? Twas probably not me
you mean rm -rf * at /
yeap
it worked
but didn't remove *
but his system became unusable :D
@BenjaminGruenbaum however and after all, your argument is invalid. Even IF I'd agree that with with you can change the scope dynamically, its not implemented in the language itself which I was saying all the time
@jAndy look it up in es-discuss. I don't want to appeal to authority though I just got a bit upset you linked me to that article since I've discussed it here several times.
(it was rlemon sorry)
@jAndy What do you mean? with is a part of the language, it's specified in the language specification...
13:43
@BenjaminGruenbaum if you know the article so well, you should also know what I am saying
:12367326 Four months ago ? Too bad my memory is erased every two weeks
function foo() {
  var x = 10;
  return function bar() {
    console.log(x);
  };
}

// "foo" returns also a function
// and this returned function uses
// free variable "x"

var returnedFunction = foo();

// global variable "x"
var x = 20;

// execution of the returned function
returnedFunction(); // 10, but not 20
if the result there was 20
then we would have dynamic scoping in the language
@jAndy Yeah, I get that. That's not the only form of dynamic scoping though.
get it
We have dynamic scoping in with statements, not in functions. It's not a dynamically scoped language. It's a lexically scoped language with dynamic scoping with the with construct.
It does, however, have dynamic scoping.
13:44
0
Q: What are the (high level) pros and cons of Javascript?

Gerben JacobsWhen you search the pros and cons you get this nice list of the same items, just worded differently. Pros: easy, fast Cons: security, rendering But my angle is more, considering javascript is an interpreted language, uses prototyping and is dynamically typed?

well not in my mind
There's your mind and there is the definition.
The result depends on context.
by definition, ecmascript has lexical scope yes
Yes, it has lexical scoping for the most part
lol
13:45
Pretty much everywhere except for with statements.
That's the one place it does dynamic scoping in ES5
(And, outside the language, sometimes in the DOM but let's not stray)
I can only repeat myself on that one, even if it would be the case, its just a "wierd wrong" language extension/keyword which could fake that behavior
its not implemented in the language structure itself
> The with statement adds an object environment record for a computed object to the lexical environment of the current execution context. It then executes a statement using this augmented lexical environment. Finally, it restores the original lexical environment.
That sounds very much like dynamic scoping.
That is dynamic scoping...
That's like saying JS is not a functional language because it has non functional constructs. Or that it's not an OOP language because it does have functional constructs...
no my example snippet from above is dynamic scoping
Anyway I'm out.
13:47
are you kidding
hard trolling in here...
Actually, I'm siding with them now
Scoping does not have to relate to functions
Functions and any other form are lexically scoped; except with, which is not necessarily
show div content only if 2 javascripts are loaded, any idea how to do this?
:o
What if 3 javascripts are loaded?
posted on October 15, 2013

var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www."); document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E")); try { var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-3727700-1"); pageTracker._trackPageview(); } catch(err) {} Honk honk!

2 will do lol
13:49
and I don't know how I can express myself any better. ECMAscript is about context and scoping chains (or call it LEXICAL environment records and stuff). Just because there is one ill keyword in the language which can swap order of execution context, can't be a reason to call the language has "dynamic scope"
these 2 scripts are loaded on footer and they style the div above
@user2056484 Care to explain your use case?
did you all lose your minds
@jAndy You're right, the language is not dynamically scoped.
13:50
the thing is, when you load the page the div shows unstyled, until the scripts are loaded from the bottom
puu.sh/4QIvO.jpg oh, how difficult it is to understand you
@jAndy The language is not dynamically typed, it has dynamic typing though. :)
@FLCL Hey look, a wall. They make good conversation
wich happens really fast actually, matter of miliseconds, but it's clearly visible
But what you're saying is "I'm completely healthy, so what if I have some tiny amount of HIV in me, no reason to call me sick"
13:51
thats an absurd comparison
@Zirak uhm, except that this analogy doesn't make sense, scoping doesn't spread.
The language is not dynamically scoped; for the most part, it is lexically scoped. However, it has a dynamic construct.
But this is semantics now
if I put on header it doesn't works
It's cold
@Shmiddty There goes the neighbourhood.
13:53
!!weather Denver
@Shmiddty Denver: 34.2319F (1.24C, 274.39K), Sky is Clear
@Shmiddty WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?
@user2056484 try something like this
@Shmiddty You've murdered your entire neighborhood by making it cold!
13:54
Poor neighborhood.
That is cold.
Maybe your roomie will freeze to death.
its more like, I have a perfect green tower and just because there is one crazy guy in there who carrys a bucket with red color and he COULD potentially paint some reds... now the tower isn't green
even if he didn't paint anything
@eazimmerman, looks great, I'll test it
@jAndy No, the tower is still green, there is just one guy with a red bucket.
Haha. She stayed somewhere else last night, so I had the bed to myself
Was glorious
13:55
@jAndy That's what we're (or I'm) saying too
@OctavianDamiean yea probably, but I all I read the last 20 minutes was "the tower is green red"
@octa 6 pigmies.
@Shmiddty All that space to masturbate in, without someone uncomfortably budging next to you.
2
@jAndy Not sure what you read but I'm quite sure that we were trying to explain that with is the red bucket.
Right?!
13:58
@OctavianDamiean probably, but all I originally said was that ECMAscript (the language itself and its conception) does not use any kind of dynamic scoping and all the sudden @BenjaminGruenbaum jumped it and all this started
talking about the green building, not any potential red buckets
@jAndy Oh well, yea the building was always green.
Define dynamic scoping
Red buckit.
exactly

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