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user1596138
8:00 PM
Yeah I was noticing the lack of admins outside of North American business hours. Not during
 
/me sets alarm for 2am
 
it's usually so slow tho that it doesn't matter.
 
2 am utc?
 
people ask a lot of questions about being "afflicted" with vue.js
2 am est
 
@ConspicuousCompiler many years ago, it was just the case that "sane and reasonable" regulars, become moderators, in other words, they were trusted.
Then one day, some people decided to cancel this way and kick people which don't deserve that "status".
I'm basically saying, it worked out pretty good in the old days.
 
8:00 PM
which is 4 hours different from utc
 
yea I don't see many problems over night. no one online to cause issues
just sayin, that's when ro's are lacking
 
It even worked very good in IRC channels
 
@KevinB Well if the cookie isn't being sent the connection is refused directly.
 
"Then one day, some people decided to cancel this way and kick people which don't deserve that "status"." when did that happen
 
the whole applying and voting stuff, seems like bullshit to me
 
8:01 PM
once all regulars have even power, you need voting and discussion
that's how a community works
 
wrong
 
okay
 
I vote for yes!
 
that would imply they everybody keeps staying here forever, which isn't the case
 
user1596138
Seems fine to me. I know most the guys would say this place is dead but... This place is wholesome, doesn't cause trouble now. No longer the bane of SO chat
 
user1596138
8:02 PM
Is it related to the voting? I dunno
 
I feel like flat out saying "wrong" is unproductive.
 
because it is
 
@ConspicuousCompiler right!
 
caprica needs discord-like features that "award" (really just show) if you're active here...
 
okay is the only response - just move on
 
8:02 PM
well, I added more to it 200ms after
 
The reason this chat became tame was because off topic regular conversations moved away
 
well, that was part of it
 
The CoC basically says this room can shut down at any moment if there's a violation
 
less active = lower on the list of chat rooms = less new users
 
user1596138
There are lots of contributing factors to the culture shift. It even came down to individual personalities
 
8:04 PM
= good?
 
IMO wasn't worth fighting what I didn't agree with
 
regulars would start a topic and then the entire room would dissolve into it - then the ROs would let it go on WAY too long
 
we get FAR less questions asked here now days and there's far less people here available to answer them compared to before "the welcoming"
 
Ok ok, I'll stop talking about what's on my mind
 
@KevinB definitely a factor as well
 
8:04 PM
@KevinB yes, less chaotic, but also less effective
 
@paul23 nobody said you had to stop?
 
HAMMERTIME!
 
yeah, I came here right before the welcoming and it was an instant shift in culture
 
user1596138
@KevinB sure but is that bad? What's the goal of the room? Not necessarily a certain number of new users/messages per day. The room is just supposed to be here when they come up
 
What's the worry about this? :P
 
8:05 PM
yes
 
user1596138
It's a great resource and there are still some very great minds here.
 
we were essentially shut down for being unwelcoming, but now the room is even less welcoming
 
^
I'd sign that
 
user1596138
To you maybe?
 
Not sure it's so much a worry. One person would like to be a RO, another person disagrees with the RO process, a discussion about the channel identity seems a reasonable thing to have. In the least, it's edifying for we newcomers.
 
user1596138
8:06 PM
The room is more welcoming than ever to new users, IMHO.
 
How is it less welcoming?
 
I'd say, I'm in the top 10% of people who were around here from the get go, and the overall good-feeling in this room has reduced, drastically
 
it might be more coddling to new users, but the lack of activity makes it far less 'welcoming'
 
Less welcoming because the majority of experts don't participate like they used to, so there's tons of "X hours later" messages
 
user1596138
There's still a lot of personal feelings buried here it seems lol
 
8:07 PM
I wonder: is being blue or italic that amazing? Should just be a few and add more once problems arise.
 
user1596138
I'm 7 years deep in this. I feel positively about the room status today compared to 12 months ago. That's just my opinion but I think it can be quantified if you don't value messages per minute higher than users helped.
 
Being italic is pretty amazing. Have you ever tried running while standing straight up? Feels terrible! Italics == speed.
 
@paul23 italics not really. Blue is quite an achievement
 
ohh god, if you naruto run I'll kick you
 
If you love the development community, being elected moderator has to feel good
 
8:08 PM
I don't think anyone would stop the room from becoming what it once was. "Make Room 17 Great Again", is that @Jhawins campaign slogan now?
 
!!s/development//
 
@rlemon If you love the community, being elected moderator has to feel good (source)
 
user1596138
Anyway. I didn't intend to spark a existential debate for the room. I simply nominated myself for RO and stated my opinions. It's unfortunate we don't all agree on the current state of things but this is the only room we have.
 
oh wow, oldest recorded mentioning of my name was in '10
Oct 25 '10 at 15:02, by rchern
@jAndy did you switch it to regular view or are you using the mobile view?
 
user1596138
This room has bought me muscle cars and fast computers indirectly. I'll always love 17
 
8:09 PM
@Jhawins I'm all for it, you don't seem as trolly. You have in the past, multiple times, gotten into arguments and rage kicked. Is that in your past?
 
I mean, it's not the only room we have. We can totally make a "JavaScript but with more italics" room right now.,
 
@ConspicuousCompiler They tried that, it didn't go down well
 
Gosh darn.
 
AKA anal greg's elitist room
 
I don't think there's lots of animosity anymore. People simply don't want to chat in a place where they can get suspended for cursing or something. If the room becomes truly a JS help center, that's the only way SO will allow it to flourish
 
8:11 PM
the first JSEXIT
we lost Kittens and .. who else.
 
Connor
 
user1596138
@BenFortune yeah, I am fully committed to being a constructive member of the room at this point. I have no interest in attacking or winning arguments between individuals like I did in the past. I just want a place to talk about code with likeminded folks.
 
@SterlingArcher wait, you can get suspended for cursing?
 
spiracy :P
 
we wanted to lose connor
 
8:11 PM
@DavidKamer yes, according to the CoC
 
wow, that's kind of bs
wait, does that count as cursing?
 
user1596138
Once you're not learning everything for yourself it's fun to help the new kids along lol. Something Rust has taught me 😂
 
@SterlingArcher Don't forget that multiple mods said it was allowed lmao
 
Well, until SE changes it, it's either deal with it or risk banned
 
Nobody had a clue
 
8:12 PM
@BenFortune yeah, but it's definitely clear now
Basically in here, curse at your own risk from now on, and don't fight it if a flag ban happens
 
@BenFortune it's like weed in the USA. states say it's okay. big brother is like "nahh fam, jail for life"
 
Think of it like going 5 over the speed limit. Probably won't, but definitely could get a ticket.
 
user1596138
Cursing isnt a problem we deal with proactively is all
 
user1596138
It can become a problem at any time tho.
 
It's just something that the room needs to accept if they want to participate here
 
8:13 PM
I don't see the harm, as long as it's not a personal attack or something that crosses the line
 
I don't like it, but I accept it. hence why i'm not here a lot
 
swearing isn't even the problem. it's personal attacks. ^^
 
If you can't say any 4 letter words, then this is basically coding sunday school
 
@BenFortune unprofessional for a technical area.
 
user1596138
It's never professional to curse anyway. If professional discussions are happening it usually won't be an issue.
 
8:14 PM
@paul23 as if
 
@DavidKamer well.. that's sort of SE's point.
 
work in the industry long enough.
 
To be clear, this is because of the "no vulgar language" clause under "No harassment" in the CoC @SterlingArcher?
 
user1596138
Thing is we aren't limited to professional discussion. That's the grey for me lol
 
@ConspicuousCompiler yes. It risks the entire room being shut down
 
8:15 PM
it's a public perception. the chat is under the same rules as main. and a question would be edited or flagged if it said "this code is so fucked, I need help"
 
IT's like showing up with a metal shirt and trashpants at a convention. You don't do that.
 
but on chats you can't edit others stuff
 
user1596138
@SterlingArcher cursing rules have nothing to do with your absense:P
 
hmm, "vulgar" is such a subjective term
 
@Jhawins because the things I find funny will get me crucified here now lol
 
8:15 PM
If the room isn't self moderating and is generating a lot of flags, it will be "dealt with"
 
Plus is a discussion cursing distracts from the real arguments, and most certainly lead to ad hominem attacks if left unchecked.
 
Ok. So although the rule seems broad, the intent is around having an environment where people don't feel harassed. And the assumption is cursing may easily be construed as hostile.
 
It all depends on the context though
 
user1596138
@SterlingArcher yeah well they probably don't and never did belong here then.
 
@MadaraUchiha Meant to mention this earlier
 
8:16 PM
yeah, cursing at someone is definitely different than cursing with someone
 
@Jhawins oh absolutely
 
user1596138
Positive culture shift right there.
 
@forresthopkinsa Yes, yes, I was wondering if someone would call me out on it
But not one does that, like, literally no one.
 
@DavidKamer Yes, but that distinction won't stop you from getting flagbanned for saying it.
 
@MadaraUchiha I think people generally don't do it because it's rarely necessary but if it's needed, it's there :P
 
8:17 PM
if it gets flagged, and enough people agree, you're in timeout
 
I think everybody is in understanding where the room is at now
 
user1596138
Who's really worried about a flag ban? It's a slap on the wrist that tells you the community doesn't want what you posted
 
user1596138
Don't repeat yourself
 
Doesn't matter if you don't agree, take it to meta, be nice, be welcoming, be professional, and the chat can grow again
 
what are we talking about? RO nomination?
 
8:18 PM
@KevinB do you mean in this chat or SE overall? SE has their vulgarity clause under the harassment policy which implies directed cursing. When you curse in a question, it can be considered cursing at the answerer, and I don't know if that applies to SE chat. Enforcement is entirely different though
 
@Jhawins iirc multiple flag bans summons a mod after a certain point?
 
@SterlingArcher That's kicks
 
@DavidKamer do you know h ow flagging works here in chat?
 
they could just say that entire statement I just made is bs and do whatever they want considering TOS don't really matter anyway
 
user1596138
Yeah you better not be getting multiple. Even 1 these days should be enough to teach you
 
8:19 PM
@KevinB sort of
 
@MadaraUchiha so a user being flag banned won't ever summon a mod?
 
you litterally can flag anything, then anyone with 10k rep currently in chat will receive a notification. not just people in this room
 
3 kicks on the same user, 3 by the same room owner (I think) or 5 in the same room within 24 hours, raises an automatic mod flag
 
they get to judge the message, without context. They can take it upon themselves to get context, but they aren't presented with context
 
yep, I knew that
 
8:19 PM
Mods can see the normal blue flags like everyone else, and will likely come see what's up if many of them are raised.
 
can they see who raised them?
 
@DavidKamer Mods can, yes.
 
people have gotten in trouble in here for flag spam
 
user1596138
I don't have any issues with the rules here. For the record. None whatsoever.
 
so if you get someone in here like that one person we had that was calling everyone toxic like a month ago, then the number of flags wouldn't really get us shut down?
 
user1596138
8:20 PM
Not sure why a lot of us seem to.
 
@DavidKamer mods handled that user for flag abuse
 
I mean rules are rules. Rules only exist because there is a good reason to break them...
 
@Jhawins It's not that we had a problem with the rules, it's that they're so vague and have been told multiple things by different people.
 
@DavidKamer wut
 
user1596138
FYI, voting "no more owners" is a down vote on the GH. There are a lot of mixed signals here lol
 
8:22 PM
make everyone an owner
 
@forresthopkinsa why would you make something illegal/against rules unless there are some significant number of people who want or have interest in breaking them, that's all I meant.
 
if everyone's an RO..... no one's an RO
@DavidKamer I think one person is enough. Even a hypothetical person is enough
 
@forresthopkinsa That's not how it works though
 
user1596138
@forresthopkinsa works for sandbox
 
8:23 PM
@forresthopkinsa eh, maybe, but I don't think anyone is unique enough to warrant a special case like that. Do you understand what I mean by that?
 
user1596138
I once cleared all the stars in the sandbox and got in trouble from a blue diamond...
 
user1596138
"play with anything except flags" :O
 
@DavidKamer Because it harms others, hopefully, for most cases.
 
@DavidKamer I've never seen any actual sexual harassment in here but I'm sure it's against the rules
 
Then you clearly never seen Zirak in action
 
8:24 PM
Zirak sexually harasses himself.
 
And tells no one
 
Harassment is MAJORLY different than the culture issue that the Welcoming dropped on us
 
user1596138
@forresthopkinsa you've missed some stuff lol
 
@MadaraUchiha yeah, in a perfect world. But most of the time any rule beyond "don't directly assault or harass that person" comes down to something that people feel motivated to do that is disruptive but beneficial in some way to the rule breaker
 
We've always been very good at stopping harassment here
 
8:25 PM
eh
 
Yeah I haven't been around as long as some of you
 
I've seen a few indians hit on cap
3
 
@DavidKamer That's not all there is to it...
 
robots aren't people
 
cap has no rights
 
8:25 PM
cap has all the rights
 
@forresthopkinsa true. And it should be, but people sexually harass others because they find some perceived benefit (although there is none in reality)
 
I think the big takeaway of Welcoming was that the same behavior and statements can be legitimately perceived dramatically differently by two reasonable people of different backgrouns.
 
eh, no
it's that if you make a big enough stink on twitter, you can get your way.
 
I think the big takeaway was that if you're determined to be offended then you will be
 
my first experience here was some guy telling me I was sexy or something weird like that lmao
 
8:26 PM
Basically, just post in here like you would post on the main site. Or simply be aware that ROs will not save you from being flag banned for CoC violations anymore
 
@DavidKamer Did sterling at least apologise?
 
If everybody accepts that we have to play by SE's rules here, the chat can be very good.
 
We all love JS, which is why I'm still here, to help where I can
And that's how I see the room now.
 
rude generalization
I hate js
 
8:27 PM
I think the Welcoming post was well intentioned (even though I, personally, disagree with the sentiment), and very poorly executed.
 
@MadaraUchiha oh I agree.... it gets really really political, but the simplified idea I was trying to express is that, in general, rules begin their existence because someone wants to break them.
 
!!s/help/troll/
 
@jAndy We all love JS, which is why I'm still here, to troll where I can (source)
 
I feel like the whole point of The Welcoming was to remove off-topic chat from chat rooms
 
I don't know about that
 
8:28 PM
i don't think chat was at all a thought in that blog post
 
So, legit question that has absolutely no professional application: Is there a way to ring the system bell (like Ctrl-G on console) from Javascript in a browser, without installing a special extension?
 
chat is SE's forgotten child
 
@KevinB It wasn't, but we've had a few tellings off afterwards
 
Twitter was up in arms about off-topic chat but I don't think that really translated to Jay's blog post
 
Chat has never been a subject of SO being "unwelcoming" until after the blog post
 
8:29 PM
@ConspicuousCompiler tbh I've never even heard of that
 
it was always about the downvotes
 
But I suspect you trigger a node child_process you can execute a command to ring the system bell
 
system bell?
 
and people asking garbage questions being upset that we're closing them
 
@ConspicuousCompiler It would be the most hilarious and most scary thing ever.
 
8:30 PM
The Welcoming was designed to make people introspect if they were part of the problem by inferring that they are part of the problem. It was meant to make everyone more empathetic, but people don't like being told they are to blame if they are not in fact to blame. It failed pretty hard and upset a lot more people than it helped.
 
Yeah, never hard of a system bell before
 
@KevinB I think that you may be singlehandedly responsible for the state of the site, if it's just about downvotes
 
So basically... >> no way you can do that.
 
@ConspicuousCompiler with node it would be just printing \a idk about browser
 
8:30 PM
@ConspicuousCompiler You can on android IIRC
 
I mean, I've had raised unfriendly flags that were accepted for a large portion of members of the room right now. We are all unwelcoming sometimes.
I'm sure I've been too.
 
yeah, I'm sure you could use service workers or whatever to send a desktop notif
 
I mean you could just use the audio API with your own chime
 
@SterlingArcher system bell is basically just \a in stdout iirc
 
@ConspicuousCompiler check this out
25
Q: How I trigger the "System Bell" in nodejs

DebugXYZI'm running a long running custom nodejs script and would like to be notified when the script is completed. How do I make nodejs trigger the "System Bell"?

 
Jon
8:33 PM
Hello
 
=====\u0007
 
Jon
I am new to REactJS , Could someone please help me ?
 
!!welcome
 
@KevinB Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room rules. If you have a question, just post it, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help. If you want to report an abusive user or a problem in this room, visit our meta.
 
Just ask your question, don't ask to ask
 
8:34 PM
@rlemon The problem with a blanket statement like "Some of our community are.... just generous, I guess" is that you hit everyone with it.
 
I know I definitely didn't enjoy being blanketed into the problem
 
@MadaraUchiha and people respond super well to that. No one jumps on the defensive at all.
 
@SterlingArcher Sweet! I was hoping to do it through the browser, if possible.
 
Also, the implication that the Stack Overflow community causes not only newbies to feel unwelcome (which is not news) but also women, people of color, and other marginalized groups (in the same sentence) was in very poor taste.
 
@ConspicuousCompiler do you want to have the beep come from the browser or the node console?
 
8:35 PM
@SterlingArcher he wants to beep
 
I want the bell on the motherboard to go "ding".
 
@ConspicuousCompiler Whose motherboard?
 
lmao, I think those are BIOS controlled only
 
Jon
Actually , I am doing routing in my project . I did sub route of Organization but when I click on menues it not showing exact location instead it showing double route name ( organization/organization)
 
as I already said: No way you can do that.
 
8:36 PM
Through the browser, an Audio API like @BenFortune would be more ideal, otherwise you have to send a request from the browser to the node server to make a console beep.
 
@ConspicuousCompiler popup virus lol?
 
@BenFortune well.. you can use node and hope your OS exposes something for you to hit
(that's what I do on the beaglebones)
 
Jon
@KevinB
 
Fair, fair. I was just wondering if maybe some early version of Opera had a vendor specific JS extension or some such. Thanks for entertaining my silly question. =)
 
@Jon can you please make a reproducible example of your problem? That's not enough detail to help you
 
8:37 PM
If that was possible, all your favourite pr0n and movie streaming sites would fire up ad's which would play "God save the Queen" on your motherboards sound chip all day long.
 
@rlemon Is that the \a thing david was on about? Or some /dev/ fuckery?
 
/dev/ fuckery
 
@jAndy just add a CD tray popout and a flashing "your computer is infected" and you have yourself a 90's virus scam
 
@Jon Can you post your router code so we can get a look at what might be wrong?
Is this concerning this question you posted? stackoverflow.com/questions/55343426/…
 
@rlemon do it
 
8:47 PM
Is anyone from France?
 
If you're talking about a Cap PR, I probably will never merge it
if it's a dark theme PR.. 6 to 8 weeks
 
yeah, i'm sure there's people in the world from france
 
I was wondering if any one in this room was. Wanted an opinion on Open School (think that's what it is called)
@KevinB wait, are you french?
 
0
Q: Best practise: how to sync code across computers (without using GitHub)

m93I'm looking for a way to securily and privately sync my scripts used from jobs and projects across 3 computers that I regularly (2 Windows, one Ubuntu). I want my scripts to be easily viewable from each computer and I don't want to have to download it to each computer if I want to view it. My s...

 
@KevinB email
 
8:53 PM
@DavidKamer elaborate Open School. Voluntarily school?
 
I'm having a hard time finding it... maybe it was lambda school... it's a school in the EU accredited in France where you pay x per month and then you get a degree accredited in france in development or another field
 
Jon
@ConspicuousCompiler Yes , It actually related to my question
 
@jAndy ah, found it: openclassrooms.com/en
open classrooms
 
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