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18:00
:(
6 answers and no votes
bounty one of them
I was saying that I answered 6 questions on my bot account and didn't get a single vote probably because I don't have much rep. Re:
3 hours ago, by JBis
@KarelG Also, I bet you that the person who just answered will get upvotes simply because he has a lot of rep
All of those questions are absolute trash
> I'm using window.onload so why isn't this entirely unrelated thing working?
18:08
Yes, the questions are trash.
0
Q: "signUp" not defined when function already defined JavaScript

progrAMI'm right now trying to create a social media for my school, and am working on a login page with backend and CSS. I have been calling the functions through an HTML document: <script src="index4.js></script> Once I run the .go file I'm using for hosting (will change in the future), and I enter ...

> I'm right now trying to create a social media for my school....
Good luck with that when you can't even figure out why functions are undefined
> ReferenceError: signUp is not defined...ReferenceError: logIn is not defined
Quality on SO is a thing of the past. Now they're much more concerned with ad revenue and virtue signaling in order to attract more advertisers. It used to be a great platform, very technical, very useful. Now it's just a shadow of its former self. The entire moderator upheaval was the last nail in the coffin. We're all here just waiting for it to die, or waiting for them to admit their mistakes and pivot. For legal reasons, they'll never admit their wrong-doing, so I guess it's 6 feet under.
3
^^ It is really frustrating and sad.
Nah, I think it opens the marketplace up for someone else to bring it back to where it needs to be on a new site. It just needs to be backed by a big name so it gains adoption. SE is donezo.
I guess I am not helping the situation by answering crappy questions.
Downvote and vote to close garbage if you still care, but otherwise it's too far gone to matter anymore
18:14
It doesn't even exist yet
No code has even been written yet
Backed by a few people nobody has heard of, and one guy I recognize who is a complete dolt
So yeah, not this one
Yes, still in very early stages. But Monica is part of it.
Just because she was a moderator of judaism.se doesn't mean this project will be successful, but sure
I was replying to "Backed by a few people nobody has heard of"
Oh, ok
18:19
Its much more difficult than i thought to create a SE replica. I mean the code is easy. But designing a platform is very difficult.
That's just software architecture. It's not all that difficult, but maybe you just haven't been exposed to that side of engineering much yet
You have different kinds of problems to solve, like scale
The problem with any new place that competes with SO is all of a sudden all these superdupe questions aren't duplicates anymore.
low effort answerers will continue just copying answers from existing answers on SO
That's what public moderation tools are for. It's ok for people to post low quality shit, as long as there are tools and leadership in place to help bin the garbage. One of the problems with SE is that their leadership over the past couple of years have given up on content quality altogether, and then wrote blog posts discouraging people from moderating.
Absolute joke
There's also this really horrible popup that pops up every time you downvote if you have less than 2000 rep that suggests you should be commenting.
there's no way to stop it short of earning more than 2k rep.
well, and ad blocking it, but that means losing all notifications.
i blew through 600 rep on meta.se over the past few months, bringing me from 2.4k to 1.8k
18:35
I do like this recent tweet for Atwood:

> I wish more people understood that the goal of Stack Overflow is not "answer my question" but "let's collaboratively build an artifact that will benefit future coders". Perhaps SO could be doing more to educate people about this.
Educating people of that does nothing if they do nothing to enforce it.
If your shitty question only benefits your esoteric use case, and is poorly worded, no code is given, then it should 100% be deleted
they're actively pushing against that goal.
Right, SE is doing a terrible job at managing it
Atwood doesn't work for SE anymore
it's become a code writing service.
18:36
Basically
well, i use "service" loosely there
I feel like the direction they are going is actively harming the developer community.
@user400654 with less crappy questions this would be fine
it's eliminating the "learning" aspect SO used to have. it's promoting people answering any and all questions, and asking any and all questions, all for the goal of increasing member totals and viewcounts to support their business objectives.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that they've made a shift over the past couple of years to care only about ad revenue
Which hey, they're a business, I get it, but the virtue signaling on top of it is just plain offensive
Am I crazy or is element.onclick = function discouraged? I've always thought addEventListners is the better way to go.
but I'm seeing 10k rep users suggest the former
18:41
just another copy paste programmer
10k rep means nothing
sad right?
there's devs with 100k still suggesting garbage like that
Yet they got the upvote
on___ properties are discouraged because anyone can overwrite it
But that's the only reason
addEventListener makes it so you cannot
and you can't add multiple, and if you remove the element and readd it, it retains
I really like this: blog.codinghorror.com/… -- I think it's a bit too friendly in its approach, but it very subtly calls out the things that SO is doing poorly
> The responsibility for this misunderstanding is all on Stack Overflow
yeet
> I've heard people describe the process of asking a question on Stack Overflow as anxiety inducing. To me, posting on Stack Overflow is supposed to involve a healthy kind of minor "let me be sure to show off my best work" anxiety
I think that they need to bring Atwood back to right the ship. Dude is on the ball.
19:01
I agree. But he doesn't want to it seems.
Nope, and I wouldn't want to if I were in his shoes. Why jump on board a sinking ship?
I think SE can be saved. Bring back Atwood. Redo a bunch of things, etc. Will it be? Probably not. Probably die a slow slow death.
I still like my idea of having a some requirement before asking a question. Maybe account age or rep.
At this point, I don't think any of the users really want it to be saved. Probably some, but I think most developers would be content with a different platform; they just use SO because it's the only (big) one right now.
I want it to be saved. I haven't even been around long enough to see it in its glory days :(
yay an upvote!
What would be the point of it sticking around? So that your bot can continue to operate? If a new, better platform comes out, there's no point to keep giving these dummies your time or money
19:13
Lol no. Because I think it would be difficult for a competitor to get all the features SO has quickly.
If they did, then i would be ok to transfer. But also, all our rep would be lost.
Well obviously you don't launch with all of the features. If you want to do it in an agile way, you do it iteratively. That's a nonce argument
You only have 445 rep. I could gain that in a week if I actually tried
So you have two accounts?
that took a lot of effort ^^
Oh, that's on not stackoverflow
I've gotten half of my rep by just acruing votes on old content. I don't contribute new stuff anymore (or very rarely), and people just keep upvoting my old stuff
Besides, points on SO are imaginary internet points and are not useful
So I don't know why you'd care that much
19:17
5-7k in that site has been mostly old stuff being upvoted but the first 5k was difficult
@ndugger it represents something
there's a good post on what reputation really means, I'll find it later
It represents what exactly? Because I know some users with over 100k that just shit out terribly written jquery answers all day long
Yeah I didn't realize how bad it had gotten until I tried answering questions today
Either they know how to do it and they don't care or they truly don't know how to do it properly. I'm not sure which is worse.
19:58
@ndugger What happened with the moderator upheaval?
wheres the site where I can run statistics sql queries on the StackOverflow database?
@jake Tons of moderators stepped down due to SE's misconduct
0
Q: Account Age Requirment for Asking Quetions

JBisThere is no question that the quality of questions is a huge problem on the main site. With the recent loss of a substantial number of moderators due to recent events, it has only gotten worse. Many users (including myself) haven't helped the situation by attempting to answer bad questions (usual...

Questions*
20:13
I disagree with that proposal. What are new users supposed to do? They can only answer at this point, or just wait X days until they can finally ask. I feel like it causes more pain that usefulness
please comment or add an answer
@ndugger Whats so bad about making them wait?
The new user retention rate would drop like a fly
\> SE's misconduct

Is there a meaty post I can read about? I fell off the SO wagon a couple years ago. Just read jeffs article
@ndugger do we want new users who can't ask good questions? And I don't think it would very much.
Your assumption is that all new users are new programmers and will contribute poor quality content. I don't think that's fair.
@jake One sec, I'll give you a handful
20:22
I still don't think that matters.
I wanted to get statistics but I can't find the page but my guess is majority of new users have downvoted questions.
found it
@jake

https://medium.com/@cellio/dear-stack-overflow-we-need-to-talk-13bf3f90204f
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested-in-cooper
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/336526/stack-overflow-is-doing-me-ongoing-harm-its-time-to-fix-it?noredirect=1&lq=1

tl;dr -- StackExchange has warped over the past few years to change from caring about the original goal of the platform, which was to provide technically correct information and snippets to software engineers in a wiki format, to being a virtue-signaling adver
the tl;dr is still tl
I would be remissed if I didn't say, "I told you so"... I saw this coming for years. It all started with Joel, breaking his own platform's rules to push a political agenda. It's been so much virtue signaling, and pushing away knowledgable and experienced engineers in the pursuit of more ad revenue.
No, no, I agree that most new users suck, but I wholeheartedly disagree with punishing all new users across the board like this
20:38
Gimme a year when SO was thriving
2010?
I would say the last decent year was 2015. It's been a sharp decline since then
2014 maybe, to be safe
ok thanks
Still reading, but what does TL stand for in these contexts?
Teacher's Lounge
private chat room for mods
Yay. -9 on my meta post.
20:51
I didn't think other people would care for it either
No reason to punish people before they've even been given the chance to perform; this is basically advocating for what happened to Monica
thats way oversimplifying
Yes and no
@ndugger I can't believe they are dropping the ball like that, reminds me of the stuff happening at npm theregister.co.uk/2019/07/18/npm_uninstall_cofounder_global
21:15
I can believe it
Tons of companies are doing the same exact thing; virtue signaling in order to attract more advertisers
"virtue signalling" is a stupid term and I roll my eyes every time you say it
if there's an instance of bullying on SO, and someone on Twitter brings it to Tim Post's attention, and they convince him that it's unacceptable, he's going to get it removed -- not to signal his virtue, but because he believes that it's wrong, and his whole department is dedicated to keeping unacceptable content off the network
I largely disagree with the SE team's decisions around harassment, but it's silly to say that they're doing it just to earn some imaginary morality points with twitter users
They do it because they're convinced that one thing is right and another thing is wrong, and their whole job is to keep the bad stuff off the site
It has nothing to do with twitter users, it has everything to do with advertisers
Most platforms have been doing the same exact thing
It pays to pretend to be liberal
It pays to be sensitive*
My only problem is when people espouse virtues that they don't follow themselves. Other than that, I try to stay out of that kind of thing :/
Companies are amoral; in our capitalist system, their sole purpose is to generate more revenue for the shareholders. In order to attract more partnerships, the company will adopt a liberal persona. I'm left of center, I have nothing wrong with being liberal, but you're kidding yourself if you think a company actually cares.
21:26
does Youtube demonetize way too much content? Clearly, yes, they do. But they're not trying to come off as a pillar of morality, they're trying to not put their clients' commercials in front of content that may be insensitive to one group or another
however, I have yet to see any evidence that pronoun usage has been a problem of any sort between SE and advertisers
Its only a problem when it becomes a problem
It's very clear that platforms have been "cancelling" conservative voices, because apparently being conservative and holding different opinions than the left is automatically insensitive to one group or another. This is virtue signaling.
I doubt IBM gaf about whether their Watson ads show up next to discussions where nonbinary folks were referred to as binary
Again, I'm left of center, but the left is very fucked
IMO its stupid to blame a company for the video their ads pops up on
21:29
"Virtue signalling" suggests that the platform is trying to convince others that they're so ethically upright, and I don't think YT cares about that
Of course they do
I think YT has made it pretty clear that they're trying to minimize the backlash they face from all sides
they're not trying to earn virtue points, they're trying to avoid pissing their customers off
"virtue signalling" is just such an edgy term, it's obnoxious
"wow look at him, he respects women, clearly he's just trying to sleep with them"
"look at her, she just referred to a transgender person by their requested pronoun, she must think the whole world revolves around her"
It might be an "edgy" term to you, but that doesn't make it not a real thing. Shit happens constantly.
I don't view it as edgy at all
> Fat creators
lol
21:32
I feel like this is where that stuff leads
Can't bully people if you don't have anyone to bully
Jake i think you could add that back
TT doesn't need to care about politics, they lost that front from the start. Anyone who has a clue about geopolitics isn't going to participate in a Chinese face-stealing platform
I can't stand TT. I refuse to use them because they are chinese owned. I read their privacy policy. Its scary. They are stealing americans data and its all gonna come crashing down on us sooner or later.
Fucking china
Well they're a lot better at this "taking over the world" thing than we are
Forrest, that kind of thing happens on youtube as well (esp for LGBT folks) youtube.com/watch?v=ll8zGaWhofU
21:35
@forresthopkinsa They are even better than Nazi Germany. They did concentration camps and didn't get much lash back.
YT plays it as safe as they can with their customers
i.e. not content creators
I'd love to see corp. money taken out of video platforms.
good luck paying for hosting those like 12 exabytes of minecraft let's plays
I like how this post is super downvoted: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/391250/… -- nobody wants it, but SE continues to ignore users. Very 10/10
plenty of people want it
21:37
It's the timing
I don't know what's gotten into them
eh, nah, it'd be negatively received regardless
They just can't win
and I love it
only way to avoid that would be to not do it.
I don't think it would have been negatively received if they weren't already in turmoil
At least, not quite so negatively
A number of people on that post have even said, I don't think this is a terrible idea but now is not the time for this
the change does nothing to improve anything
21:39
Their strategy must be to get all the bad stuff out while everyone is already upset
I think they're trying to move on from the Monica incident without actually resolving it, so they push out new stuff as a distraction, but nope, community isn't having it
SO needs to be less of a company.
Wasn't created to make money
Just grin and bear it for a couple months, push out all the stuff that everyone is going to be ticked off for, and then give like a year of no controversy
like, at this point in time, when 90% of the questions that are asked are duplicates or garbage, we're gonna reward questions that receive upvotes more. yeah, great plan.
Yeah, no. I get that they're a company, and companies need to make money. I don't fault them for that, but I disagree with their methods for sure
21:40
SO was created to make money
They need to give up on the repository bs
I just don't think that these controversies they're stirring up are helping them accomplish that
it's not one, and never will be one
stop lieing and call it what it is
Atwood said it himself
in the blogpost I linked
It was supposed to be a company, which is supposed to be about money, since day 1
he said it was supposed to be for the community
a community wiki
21:42
Read the whole thing
PS how does Wikipedia run?
because yes, but he also said it was supposed to generate money
yeah he talks in the post about how it was designed to be a sustainable private company
Wikipedia is not a private company, it's a non-profit iirc
> The entire Stack Overflow network may be Creative Commons licensed, but it was never a non-profit play. It was planned as a sustainable business from the outset, and that's why we launched Stack Overflow Careers only one year after Stack Overflow itself
Don't you see their donation banners every year? It's that time of year right now in fact
21:46
their careers product has always been too costly for us to use.
It's changed now to a subscription model, of course
Bad decision after bad decision
I want to see the company implode, personally. I don't like how its been run, but I don't necesarily want to see everyone out of their jobs either. Catch 22.
like, why would we pay the same that a company in a busy area pays
considering we'd be pretty much the only entry in this area within hundreds of miles, and still get little to no responses?
Ha!
48
Q: How should the new pronoun policy be applied to Spanish language?

Universal_learnerFor Spanish speaking users is not so simple. We don't have "he" or "she", we have programadores y programadoras, arquitectos y arquitectas, .... We finish by using only masculine terms, because if not this is what happens (I cannot translate this on a engine, try it if you wish) «El pleno e...

love it
facepalm
22:12
@user400654 The JamesBot proposal has 4 upvotes and 0 downvotes. Do you think we can move forward or we should wait a little while longer?
P.S To everyone. Sorry if I have been a bit obnoxious and annoying about the bot thing for the past couple days. Don't really have an excuse, just excited :)
Don't apologize, you're good
It's not like anything else is going on in here
lol thanks, just didn't want to get on anyones nerves
it's just an odd situation. someone needs to step up and take the reins, and i'm just too busy right now to do it. Most of the existing ROs are inactive and likely never going to come back
@ndugger It took me an estimated 7% of life to get that score (at the time).
Yes. That is probably true unfortunately 40065. :(
Feel free to start it @forresthopkinsa
New issue?
22:19
Yes.
Not sure if you want to. But I would nominate you for RO. I think you'd make a good one!
Very much appreciated! Not sure if I'm comfortable initiating a proposal to turn over the majority of the existing ROs though. It just feels like one of them should probably do that.
Fair. @BenjaminGruenbaum seems like the optimal choice.
Yeah we'll see what happens. It's no rush anyways. I just want James to have permissions, the wider issue can wait.
I agree.
22:25
Hot
Nice italics
i have no idea how to close github issues or if i even have access to do so
I got it
23:00
hi
how can i detect if a user is leaving a page and not reloading it with jquery?
onbeforeunload triggers for both
why are you trying to detect that
i need to clear session storage only on page leaving
what kind of data are you clearing
are you talking navigation data?
json objects
json objects that i store instead of reaclling the api
try again
23:03
eh, that's a complicated problem to solve
generally you shouldn't need to manually clear session storage
tldr... detect the things you can
for all other things, clear the session data
ok thanks
1 message moved to Trash can
@JBis Please don't post unformatted code - hit Ctrl+K before sending, use up-arrow to edit messages, and see the faq.
:)
Is there a standardized subset of javascript that can be called from a bookmark url javascript:?
23:20
I imagine that depends on the browser
@JamesBot excellent
hmmm
|| afk doing vfx
@JBis bye JBis
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