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user1596138
8:00 PM
There was a goat obsession in 2013 chat.
 
user1596138
And there were some commands on Caprica that we will never speak of again.
 
Dec 14 '13 at 18:34, by Madara Uchiha
Maybe I'm just not used to JavaScript :|
:(
@LuckyKleinschmidt me and Zirak had a "secret" room called Goats
The whole reason for it was I found personally identifiable information about him online (I wasn't looking) and wanted to let him know so I opened a room where we talked about life and post a picture of a goat every once in a while
Eventually we moved to hangouts
 
user1596138
Fun times. I tried my best to learn JS here 9-4, then pushed carts at Walmart 6-12 every night. Glad life changed lol
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt oh god
 
You know what sucks? When I did flash we had all these amazing people building cool shit that had manual labour day jobs, a lot of them were able to stop doing that and start programming - the sucky part is that a surprising amount of them are now back at manual labour.
 
8:03 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum what could have prevented that?
 
user1596138
I miss manual labor. Genuinely.
 
user1596138
It doesn't pay tho (:
 
I do not
 
hmm I never learned flash
it came and died before I graduated high school
 
user1596138
I spent 3 years on a llama farm lol. Those were the days!
 
8:04 PM
Not all of them, but like over half, like the dudes who built this is pushing carts at some walmart: like rtil, bigarmybug and denvish
@DavidKamer not sure
 
I've never really done straight manual labor. Closest was working at Dish doing satellite dishes and systems
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum what did flash do that can't be done on the web? games?
 
i worked in a lumber yard for 6 years
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum was it just failure to adapt?
 
user1596138
8:05 PM
@William gave admin access to your PC
 
Denvish is crazy talented. One time just for gags because I wouldn't reveal my IRL identity on Newgrounds for a while they had a day to make shit for me. He wrote a song, composed it and animated a music video and also made a computer game that probably got like 5 million views.
 
admin access really flash was to powerful had to be nuked
 
He's insanely gifted, he had a shitty life and I really wish some company finds him at some point and hires him for a fuckton of money - we're not really in touch any more and he didn't answer my last email.
 
I guess I did have to hold people down while nurses latched them to the bed as a security guard at a hospital... that's manual labor lol.
 
@DavidKamer in hindsight, sure.
 
8:06 PM
@DavidKamer sounds dangerous?
 
@William games were much easier in flash, we'll get there in ~3 years IMO
 
@William Normal hospital, but we got a lot of people that were on their way somewhere else from the police for a first check on health
 
except mobile will prevent a combined platform
 
I did work with flash a little bit, we built a learning platform/quiz with it, then later used flex (xml that compiles to flash) to build a Q&A system for the factory
 
It was. I wan't allowed to carry my Glock there so it was pretty dangerous.
 
8:08 PM
yeah strapping someone down is a nice way of saying they were being sent to a psych ward
 
@William sometimes it was just drugs and they would just detox them at the hospital.
 
@DavidKamer unfortunately a diagnosis doesn't vary based on drug use
 
user1596138
Some people just don't want to go to the hospital.
 
Let's talk about something else enough health care today
 
The worst I ever saw was a babysitter in shock holding a kid that had blood everywhere coming down his head and was to shocked to cry. The girl just stared at me... I was able to get them in in like 5 seconds to the ER
 
user1596138
 
user1596138
Let's talk about that
 
user1596138
We need more JS in cars
 
@William ok, and true if they make it to the psychiatrist and that it is why our small hospital tries to prevent that.
 
please, I don't want to sit in a car that has a line of js in it
 
@forresthopkinsa why not?
 
user1596138
8:11 PM
Document.activateBlinker()
 
.3-.2
 
I sometimes think JavaScript would have been better then Java
 
if the language was mature enough for android
 
that's precise enough and totally expected in a mission critical application
 
8:11 PM
cars not sure
 
user1596138
@forresthopkinsa you will soon. Eventually all of the touch screens will be running this standard
 
@William oh definitely. Rust should be the future of embedded and mission critical imo
 
user1596138
We'll know everything from who is buckled to how far the window is rolled down.
 
what does Android Auto use
 
window.window.rolldown()
 
8:12 PM
@forresthopkinsa It uses
NullPointerException
please restart your car...
 
guh whatever
I'd take Java over JS any day
 
@forresthopkinsa How long have you been a part of the Nazi party?
 
I'd take JS over Java every day and I write Java
4
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum even without types?
 
user1596138
@forresthopkinsa That's just a projection of your phone basically
 
8:14 PM
dynamic typing is an effort of the underground soviet movement
 
Java was my first language... It is painful to think the world depends on something that Janga like
 
user1596138
The proprietary interface accepts Android auto, it doesn't necessarily run anything when you're not using it
 
@forresthopkinsa lol
 
@William Absolutely, even without ES6 (or ES5), even if I had to use notepad to write it - it would still be more maintainable, debuggable and easy than the mess that is Java
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt or when it getttssss.....
 
8:15 PM
There are a few use cases where I'd use Java because of JNI - but other than that...
 
NullPointerException
 
lol guy you're crazy
 
No, we just wrote a lot of Java
:D
 
:43714977 NullPointerReference - adjust the pointer reference that you have no access to.
 
I also write Java professionally and no I don't particularly enjoy the language
but it's definitely safer than JS
 
8:16 PM
that's nice to hear but I feel like JavaScript being prototype based wasn't going to be picked as an official language back then
 
So it tells me I have a null pointer whenever it fails.... but I can't access pointers?
 
my computer science teacher asked where I had experience with prototype based languages
 
@forresthopkinsa safer how? I feel like Java's type safety is very weak and mostly in the wrong places.
 
said that they are rarely talked abo,ut
 
user1596138
@DavidKamer I don't work with hard languages. This means nothing to me
 
8:17 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum duh because every error is a null pointer
 
Java's typing is definitely not weak
Javascript is an insanely mangled language
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt not even C++?
 
user1596138
Not when it's the only thing you know
 
user1596138
@DavidKamer Hell no.
 
i.e. Madara's talk about what this means earlier
 
8:17 PM
@forresthopkinsa let's say I have a list of Ts, and the list has a remove method that removes an element - what would its signature look like in Java?
 
user1596138
I did for iOS some 3+ years ago
 
user1596138
That was hell.
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt swift or OC?
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt well... that is a good reason to hate java... It gives you null pointer when it means nothing to you...
 
user1596138
@William No
 
8:18 PM
public void remove(T element) or something?
what's your point, generic variance?
 
user1596138
I am a JS dev with experience in Node and PHP and SQL
 
@forresthopkinsa Java has almost all the quirks Javascript has - it has boxing, primitive types, problematic edge cases and NotANumber, it has 0.3 !== 0.1 + 0.2 and all the "weird" things most languages have.
 
user1596138
That is all.
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt so you did the iOS app in JS?
 
@forresthopkinsa right, now what does this signature actually guarantee about what remove does?
 
user1596138
8:18 PM
@William Oh lol. I did 2 in my life
 
guarantees that its parameter type is the type of the elements in the list
 
user1596138
One with Cordova/phonegap whatever you prefer
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah JavaScript is pretty quirky but from what I've experienced it is closer to the surface than Java
 
user1596138
Then one with C++, this was back in the maybe iOS 5 days
 
as opposed to Javascript where you literally have no guarantees about anything it's doing because there are no method contracts at all
 
8:19 PM
@forresthopkinsa here are some examples of stuff that I'd like the signature to guarantee: the collection does not contain the element element after remove is called, the collection is not null, the element removed is not null, the collection's size did not grow after the call to remove, it the element was in the collection then size is now smaller.
 
user1596138
I mean I'd learn whatever but that means selling ME and not my experience.
 
All the method contracts in Java are stateful, weak and only have half meaning, it's full of mutating things and hoping for the best.
 
@forresthopkinsa it's event driven
 
user2620028
@William @LuckyKleinschmidt lol hello my dudes
 
user1596138
That would be a great position I'm sure.
 
user2620028
8:20 PM
i just got on to post a rebecca black link
 
user2620028
i am not back
 
@forresthopkinsa not to mention Java's type system is undecideable and the compiler has to "guess" what types you mean when you mix covariance and contravariance generics.
 
user2620028
priorities
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum let's talk about mutation and Python...
 
you in cali though right?
 
user2620028
8:20 PM
@LuckyKleinschmidt g'day tom petty
 
covariance and contravariance is not great with Java but the point is that it's a LOT better than nothing
 
user1596138
Umm that doesn't look like what I wanted
 
user2620028
@william yeah
 
I've had some pretty horrible days with Python's mutation. It's like made to mutate
 
user2620028
@LuckyKleinschmidt looked like a middle finger, until you mentioned it, and then it looked like a nipple
 
8:21 PM
@forresthopkinsa and the fact it has a very unsound and quirky type system - you have primitives which are "different" and not objects, those get boxed sometimes but you can't have an ArrayList<int> for some reason. C# just has value/reference semantics solves this much much more elegantly.
 
@forresthopkinsa I've been doing some thinking on that olive garden thing. They probably limited the passes by region so that no one olive garden venue gets overwhelmed by free cardholders.
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad Yes and yes.
 
@HatterisMad did you graduate. I am doing a double major now
 
user2620028
@LuckyKleinschmidt are you new to chat? i don't recognize your name
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum just because method contracts are limited does not mean that the typing is weak
 
8:21 PM
@HatterisMad Jhawins
 
@forresthopkinsa it's not about covariance and contravariance - it's about being unable to express anything meaningful about the type in a remove or add or anything really.
 
user2620028
@william i am finally starting classes again monday
 
he is being stupid changing his name
 
user2620028
oh, of course it is
 
@forresthopkinsa we are talking about static type checking specifically right?
 
8:22 PM
yes
 
If we are - then the fact I cannot enforce contracts about what my types express directly means that the type system is weak.
Oh, and erasure lol - erasure is awful.
 
@HatterisMad in cali?
 
no, a type system is weak if it doesn't enforce types
 
Let's just all agree on one thing... Passing an argument in python and changing it is cancer
 
are you going to transfer your classe back
 
user2620028
8:22 PM
@william my school is remote
 
ahh that makes sense
 
erasure is indeed pretty awful
 
well you better graduate
before me
 
I'm not saying it's my preferred language
 
user2620028
@william when are you graduating lol
 
user1596138
8:23 PM
@HatterisMad ....
 
I'm saying that knowing types at all is a lot better than having no type information
 
@HatterisMad December if I pass everything
 
@forresthopkinsa right, and the type system can't type remove correctly. Not to mention the embarrassing lack of union types and weird enums.
 
if I pass all 5 classes 2 majors
 
user2620028
@William well i can't graduate this semester so, you are going to beat me for sure
 
8:24 PM
Have you ever tried making a UI with JAVA? I almost died. Pls spread awareness.
 
if I pass 4 of 5 1 major
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad it is bugging a few people SO much that I change my name every 30 days. I'm lovin it
 
what the hell do generics matter when JS doesn't. have. ANY. TYPES.
 
user2620028
i have 3 classes left that i need to take next semester i believe
 
@forresthopkinsa only if knowing types at all is meaningful - I'd argue in Java it doesn't really help prevent many bugs. It's a word of a difference between it and TypeScript for example (or Scala if you want a JVM language).
 
8:24 PM
@HatterisMad remote also
wow your school is pretty cool
 
Java types are just... awful.
 
user2620028
@LuckyKleinschmidt going to impersonate another regular?
 
Everything is an object! Ok, are numbers objects? No! Are functions objects? No!
 
holy cow dude
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt Keep doing it
 
user1596138
8:25 PM
@HatterisMad I don't know yet
 
user1596138
Maybe if I can get someone to change their name I can steal theirs
 
user2620028
going to get in trouble again for impersonating another user?
 
user2620028
didn't you get in trouble last time? lol
 
dynamic typing (or JS' system of 'no typing') is only as safe as a typical statically typed program if it has full code coverage
 
user1596138
I did. But if they change first....
 
8:26 PM
@forresthopkinsa the discussion isn't about whether type information is useful, it's obviously not free - the question is whether or not it is worth it.
 
user2620028
@lucky abhishek lol
 
user1596138
Ahahahaha
 
user2620028
abhi already changed his name didn't he
 
user2620028
to abhishrek
 
@forresthopkinsa again, that assumes that the type system can express the actual constraints on the types of your program which is arguably really not the case in Java's shitty type system.
 
user1596138
8:26 PM
Yeah he's @ShrekOverflow
 
Jan 21 '14 at 16:46, by Abhishek Hingnikar
they love there work like i love p***. maybe i should do a p*** site !
 
if your methods take arguments of a specific type (OR of an interface) then java's type system is just fine
 
user2620028
i remember that! lolol
 
99% of methods don't use generic variance
 
the fact it's not "their" makes that quote so much better
 
8:27 PM
benjamin that's a really good point. I had forgotten java functions are not really objects. But to be fair numebr aren't exactly objects in JavaScript
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt :(
 
@William they're not and that's really unfortunate - at least functions are.
Also, we're talking about static type checking and not the actual type system.
 
user1596138
@thebug See there used to be a loophole to change it as many times as you have network accounts.
 
user1596138
So. Funny story. I didn't know the loophole got patched and impersonated Vap0r, expecting to change my name
 
user1596138
I was punished with a user1239237646 display name for 30 days.
 
8:28 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum you're killin me man
here's what it comes down to
 
@forresthopkinsa again, you can use TypeScript and have the best of both worlds - better language with better types
 
user1596138
Omg lol old school @towc
 
Javascript is not Typescript
 
Jan 21 '14 at 16:46, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
@Cicada3301 don't spam the room, consider trying first until it works. When you return something you don't change it, you need to assign the return value to something - consider reading on how returning values works.
lol
 
8:29 PM
if we can change languages then let's instead compare Typescript to Kotlin
 
@forresthopkinsa typescript is a static type checker - it's just types added to the language
 
user1596138
He was literally like 13. He gets a pass on absolutely anything
 
@forresthopkinsa typescript has a much better type system than kotlin for what it's worth, I also do kotlin at my job
 
Kotlin is a sad place
 
do you? that's neat.
 
user2620028
8:30 PM
@lucky yeah but then he keeps getting passes on everything he says lol
 
kotlin is wonderful
 
How bad is it to have one vulnerability in one package?
 
I do a lot of Kotlin at work as well
 
I'd take TypeScript over Kotlin every day - Kotlin seems... naive, it's a nice language overall but it feels 10 years behind compared to typescript
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad Naw he's fine
 
8:30 PM
how so?
 
user2620028
@LuckyKleinschmidt grown up a bit?\
 
kotlin is a fad
 
@forresthopkinsa How does it differ from other langs that compile down to JS (like TS or elm)?
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad those speakers I ordered, round 3 of delivery is happening Monday and the seller called and assured me that he personally put the shipment on the truck
 
user1596138
Fingers crossed
 
8:31 PM
@forresthopkinsa They took lots of really interesting research and put it into TypeScript - the history in short was that this guy Gilad (who happened to invent/work on generics for Java) invented something cool called pluggable types - a bunch of really smart people worked on it first and then the people who built c# took his stuff and made typescript
 
user2620028
@lucky is this from a third vendor?
 
user1596138
No, second vendor
 
@thebug uhh because Kotlin also compiles to JVM and Native? and because it's a better language imo
 
@forresthopkinsa in terms of how the types are stronger?
 
Kotlin has a LOT of resources behind it
 
user1596138
8:31 PM
They're a shop right next to @forresthopkinsa actually
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Here, you dropped this: ï
 
user2620028
@lucky does sterling ever come to chat anymore?
 
Yes
 
user1596138
Sure. Albeit with a completely different personality
 
user2620028
whaaat
 
user1596138
8:32 PM
Not sure if someone took his account or what :/
 
user2620028
what happened to his personality
 
They have a secret discord that they hang out in
 
user1596138
Idk. Hang around and see
 
user2620028
yeah if the funny man isn't funny anymore then im out
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum can you have reified types in Typescript? How does TS handle lambdas and closures? Does it have consistent higher-order function signatures like Kotlin does? I haven't used it a lot
 
8:33 PM
How often do you guys find vulnerabilities in your repos on github or npm?
 
user1596138
@DavidKamer Since we don't run a public facing application.... Not so often
 
user2620028
@david every time i read patch notes? :P
 
@forresthopkinsa TypeScript needs to type JavaScript - obviously it does all of that and way way more. You can statically type event listeners and restrict types in it in really interesting ways
Having TypeScript not directly support higher order functions would be beyond weird
 
I'm sure you can
no of course it does but
 
8:34 PM
@LuckyKleinschmidt I mean like github tells you. Any npm package in a github repo will show up as a vulnerability
if it has one
 
how do the signatures look
 
user1596138
@DavidKamer It dissects package.json now?
 
@forresthopkinsa for what? How would the signature of .bind look like in Kotlin for example?
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt dude it did it for my package-lock.json
 
As in, takes a function with parameters and returns a partial function for some of those parameters?
 
user1596138
8:34 PM
Weird. We host on VSTS
 
ok they look like this (n:number)=>number) in TS
 
user1596138
Using git of course, but not GH
 
I'm starting my own git site soon.
 
@forresthopkinsa usually it's inferred but sure
 
is there a way with CSS to hide luckys name and just put Jhawins
 
8:35 PM
I'm finally done with this one and posting it.
 
I don't care what his name is I'm still calling him Jhawins
 
@forresthopkinsa wait, you haven't actually used TS? Then why do you have such a strong opinion on it vs. kotlin?
 
I want to put git on the block chain somehow
 
user1596138
I won't see your messages as often, but jhawins is fine
 
user1596138
@William That's been posted like 12 times today.
 
8:36 PM
I don't have a very strong opinion on TS
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt no it displays both
 
user2620028
@William just call him josiah, he has a good christian name
 
user1596138
User IDs are in classes, it's very easy to target a specific user without his display name
 
@forresthopkinsa it's like Java but fun lol
 
I'd say the same thing about Kotlin hahahaha
 
user1596138
8:36 PM
@William So do .selector {display: none} and .selector:after{ content: 'jhawins'}
 
Kotlin is only good if you also know Java
 
here's a package-level function I have in a Kotlin project here:
 
@forresthopkinsa then more fun, I'd take Scala over Kotlin and Kotlin over Java and TypeScript over all three
 
internal fun <T> Iterable<T>.joinToString(transform: (T.() -> CharSequence) = { toString() }) =
    joinToString(separator = "\n    ", prefix = "\n    ", postfix = "\n", transform = transform)
 
user1596138
Or ::after, whichever is outside I forget
 
8:37 PM
Just like coffeescript is good if you also know Ruby
 
user1596138
@1596138 does this work
 
@LuckyKleinschmidt after appears inside the object
 
and then somewhere else I have
val logList = results.entries.joinToString {
            """
            |    Question: $key
            |    Answer:   $value
            |
            """.trimMargin()
        }
 
@forresthopkinsa Are you asking how that looks like in TS?
 
Yeah what would that look in TS?
 
8:38 PM
I feel like that looks really brilliantly smooth and I want to know if TS can do it more smoothly
 
...
 
and of course, since it has a default arg, I also do this somewhere else:
val logList = fileList.joinToString()
 
user1596138
@William Look it's trivial if you know CSS lol. Give it a shot
 
You already have join(), it's typed with just a separator, passing a function is as easy
 
jhawins that is better
 
8:40 PM
ok so make it an extension of an iterable
 
no I just need to change your avatar back
 
here's a better usage without the margin:
val logList = localClicks.joinToString { "$id/$message/$timestamp" }
 
user1596138
You could always just ignore my user and forget about it
 
jhawins hide you messages even better idea
 
8:41 PM
that's a nice op-ed @thebug
 
Different usecases
 
user1596138
Yep
 
Its from quora
 
wow now that's what I call a reliable source
 
user1596138
 
8:41 PM
clearly written by a TS dev
 
interface Iterable<T> {
  joinToString<S>(transform:(T) => S);
}
Like this?
 
Jhawins meeh I was joking
 
shoot meeting bbl
sorry
 
Generally not a great idea to extend builtins?
 
and frankly I just don't like you changing your name
 
8:42 PM
we'll resume this
 
user1596138
same lmao
 
I have only strong opinions against TypeScript. It is only good when you have a large disconnected team and don't mind an extra layer of abstraction.

The reason I linked the quora answer was: "Kotlin runs on the JVM". If you are running your stack on a JVM, why wouldn't you use a language optimized for that?
 
 
Kotlin was annoying everytime I used it
the examples online tend to be either java or javascritp
so then you have to mentally switch back and forth
 
8:51 PM
Kotlin also uses packages and not modules which is silly because then everything is global
And you have to set visibility modifiers and worry about things like conflicts with multiple versions of the same package
 
Java has that same issue no?
 
user1596138
@William
 
user1596138
.signature.user-1596138 .username::before {
    content: ' Jhawins';
    font-size: 12px;
    line-height: 12px;
    background: linear-gradient(to right, orange , yellow, green, cyan, blue, violet);
    -webkit-background-clip: text;
    -webkit-text-fill-color: transparent;
}
.signature.user-1596138 .username {
    font-size: 0;
}
 
@William yes, but they recently added modules.
 
user1596138
 
8:53 PM
jhawins so it display on a second line?
mine doesn't display that way typcilalay
 
user1596138
That's what large sigs do
 
but thank you font size 0 looks good
 
user1596138
 
user1596138
If it's a large message it automatically shows your rep and does multi-line
 
user1596138
you better leave the rainbow.
 
user1596138
8:54 PM
It's !important
 
your font is a different size lol
 
user1596138
Cause I stick out
 
user1596138
It's also a damn rainbow
 
I see the problem when you sent the font to zero
it screws up the other font
 
user1596138
Yea you can no longer inherit the size, since you'd inherit 0
 
user1596138
8:56 PM
Same with the line-height, that's inherited
 
if I set the all the font sizes to pixels it could workish
 
user1596138
Do you
 
otherwise yeah I just gave up sort of
 
You can save it in a variable and restore it in ... .username *
 
blocking you is way easier
 
user1596138
8:57 PM
4 rules is pretty slim.
 
user1596138
> Think about womans
 
user1596138
Just got this email.
 
user1596138
!!afk done for the day
 
any recommendations on resources for learning nginx thoroughly preferably from a node.js prospective?
 

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