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5:00 PM
@SterlingArcher Where ? You probably confused me with another user also called dystroy and holding a monkey on his back. There are many ones. You know names aren't unique here, right ?
 
wow that code is so enterprise, this is why people don't like TS @RoelvanUden :P
 
@dystroy stackoverflow.com/questions/29990744/… it's deleted so I can't see
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Hah. It is, isn't it? Gotta love the robustness this will bring. If it works. :P
 
user1596138
@SterlingArcher webcache.googleusercontent.com/… Use your inner dev
 
@RoelvanUden if I can give you a protip - instead of a decorator pattern do prototypical inheritance from the cheerio prototype and then patch on top of that.
 
5:01 PM
IT WAS YOU!
 
user1596138
It was in fact our @dystroy that commented
 
Also, since you're using TS, might as well create a class and then extend the cheerio prototype
 
@SterlingArcher Oh, this dystroy has only given a link to the javadoc...
 
@Jhawins my inner dev doesn't deal with cached sites lol
 
Also, what do you mean by "isn't working"?
 
5:01 PM
@dystroy don't worry I just be playing :)
 
user1596138
@dystroy lol your careers profile made me laugh
 
user1596138
> More than 40 years of experience in living.

About 30 years of experience in making things that work on computers.

About 20 years of experience in being paid for making things that work on computers.

About 5 years of experience in being paid working from home making things that work on computers.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Hm, monkey-patch Cheerio itself? That might be bad if I want to use Cheerio functiaonlity as-is.
 
@RoelvanUden no no, prototypical inheritance.
And then only delegate what you have to.
I have no idea what you mean by "isn't working" but it sounds like a lot less work.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Essentially I want the behavior to be the exact same as the original jQuery/Cheerio functions it provided, except for the fact I always want to return a value and never null (gotta love that purity). Right now it blows up as soon as you run an interator through each, so obviously I'm not wrapping something up correctly.
 
user2620028
5:03 PM
@jhawins gotcha well have fun with that. I feel like that could be fun since you already got the cs degree knowledge
 
@RoelvanUden so do prototypical inheritance, iterate the methods on the prototype - override them and add a check for null?
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad Yeah well... Idk who knows. Now I'll have the money to go to school (this was my plan since 16, get job then pay for school upfront) so now I have to make real decisions in the next few years
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Prototypical inheritance in TS? I have no idea how to do that without breaking all the static checks TS provides.
 
hacks.mozilla.org/2015/05/… for some reason I think this is not as good as it looks :/
 
@RoelvanUden class Foo extends Bar
 
5:05 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't have access to Cheerio 'class', it's not exposed
 
In your case class CheerioWrapper extends Cheerio
@RoelvanUden sure it is, it's the prototype of cheerio objects
 
I don't have that either, unless I load something. Thus, not on init-time
cheerio.load returns the object with the prototype I want
Since I don't have anything to load during the init
...
That's why I was using a decorator in the first place. There is no clean way to do this
 
@Zirak yea I have vps ready to go -- I would like to configure it such that I can isolate a chunk for the group of contributors and give everyone a login
just need to make sure you guys can't fuck with the rest of the server :D
 
Cheerio.prototype is that object @RoelvanUden
 
user2620028
@jhawins and then waste all of your free time for the next 4 years not learning anything so you can get a piece of paper.
 
user1596138
5:09 PM
@HatterisMad I would dare say that a degree in mechanical engineering is a fuck of a lot more than just a piece of paper.
 
There is a Cheerio object (class) you can use, it's right there for you to extend, it's what's exported
 
It's got ink all over it
 
user1596138
CS may be made into a joke, that doesn't mean all of higher education is.
 
user2620028
the degree itself is just a piece of paper
 
all degrees are just a piece of paper
 
5:09 PM
Whether or not that has .d.tx files that are good is another story, but it's using prototypical inheritance, you can extend it @RoelvanUden
 
@Zirak wooooooo
 
some happen to impart useful skills along the way
 
user1596138
I'm not going for the paper
 
@Jhawins what?
 
then don't go
 
5:10 PM
Higher education isn't a joke..
 
user1596138
I want the knowledge.
 
@Jhawins School is a broken system, but there's nothing funny about it :(
 
user2620028
whether you are provided useful information or not is yet to be seen
 
School isn't a broken system.
 
Yes it is
 
5:10 PM
Higher education is super important for certain fields, including CS
 
@rlemon ok, let me know if I can help with that. What OS is it? Was it CentOS 7 x64? I want to make sure the environment can be set up.
 
user2620028
yes it is benji
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well shit.
 
Do either of you have a BSc?
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum you didn't go to school here (neither did I) so you'll have trouble arguing your point to them.
 
5:11 PM
I have 3 years of education experience and an academic probation, does that count?
 
School is shit. Work is death. Anarchy on Fridays.
 
@RoelvanUden :D If it comforts you I've done this in my own TypeScript before :D
 
//me shoots the ceiling
 
user2620028
@benjamin i have one semester left
 
:desk pop:
 
5:11 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Atleast in here it is. Very much.
 
user1596138
Why do you guys have to go into this when someone says they want an engineering degree?
 
@Jhawins the fact that there are shitty schools doesn't mean that higher education is shit.
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum read my messages :P we're on the same side.
 
@Zirak CentOS 6, I'll get more deets for you this weekend and we can work at setting it up
 
user2620028
and that is all geneds
 
user1596138
5:12 PM
7 mins ago, by Jhawins
@HatterisMad Yeah well... Idk who knows. Now I'll have the money to go to school (this was my plan since 16, get job then pay for school upfront) so now I have to make real decisions in the next few years
 
@Jhawins they can go into this, they're wrong - if you care about being a good engineer or professional (vs money) - a degree would really help.
 
@Jhawins Because people don't know what they want. They have to be told, on the internet. That's why we invented social media.
 
user2620028
@benjamin i don't think you understand my stance but ok
 
user1596138
I just accepted a job that's higher than the industry average pay for software engineers. If I don't set my sights higher I will top out. I'm not trying to go to school to get a job, I'm set and I have $0 debt.
 
@AwalGarg the 19th century factory school is a bad idea - but the concept of seeking higher education is novel, and important.
@HatterisMad explain it to me then.
 
user1596138
5:13 PM
And there's so much more I want to understand.
 
user2620028
"the 19th century factory school is a bad idea - but the concept of seeking higher education is novel, and important." @BenjaminGruenbaum this
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Two questions; 1) see anything weird in the decator? There is no reason it shouldn't work, albeit it's a bit clunky. 2) do you know how to declare a module of a certain class?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You said school isn't a broken system, which I think is an overstatement.
 
@Jhawins ^^ I'm not saying you should quit work in two years to get a degree - but a coursera course or two every semester (with rigid discipline to actually do it) will go a long way.
 
user1596138
My new employer offers tuition reimbursement as well :)
 
5:13 PM
@AwalGarg the concept of school isn't broken, some implementations are - some are not.
 
user2620028
@Benjamin unless you get very very lucky and find a school that knows more than you do going into it you are not going to learn anything in higher education at the moment
 
I have a promisified search function. resolves results, rejects on actual errors. What would make more sense for everyone, if 0 results rejected?? or resolved an empty array ??? I wanna say empty array, but rejecting it could also work to some peoples designs??
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad dude you're so full of shit I'll just say it outright.
 
@RoelvanUden 1) No idea, would have to run it and I'm not on Windows nor have TS installed 2) No, I always put classes in modules and not export default classes - I also do that in JS.
 
user2620028
@jhawins everything i say or are you selectively disagreeing?
 
5:15 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum School is a fucking fantastic concept, fucked up by people who don't understand how learning works.
 
@HatterisMad that's not luck.
If you go to a shitty school that's your problem.
There are plenty of schools that aren't broken.
 
user2620028
@benjamin i do not have the money to go to a non broken school.
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad you challenged me to design my own internal combustion engine.... You know how badly I would like to have the knowledge to actually go and do that? Not just one that "works", one that's an improvement on the current bland design?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yea, like the school of hard knocks
 
5:16 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum The concept as I see it is too plain and raw to have anything broken, but implementations are what matter in real life, and most of them (atleast at my place, which is a large part of the world), are total shit.
 
user2620028
@jhawins i would also love to have that knowledge.
 
Seriously, it took me a lot of time to get off my high horse and understand Academia is full of people who are much much smarter than I'll ever be. Just being near those people is extremely empowering.
 
@HatterisMad I'm going to disagree. I think school is not worth the money, but literally nothing in my CS course is related to programming. Everything I've taken in these 3 years has been theory and low level stuff. I've learned a lot.
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad I'm gonna pay a University for that knowledge, and they're going to give me a piece of paper along with it.
 
@HatterisMad that part is broken - but that's how payment for education works in the US, not the concept.
 
5:16 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum that is why I'm on SO
:D
 
@Zirak example: MIT
 
yarly
 
user2620028
@benjamin I am not saying that i am smarter than my professors or fellow students. In my experience I am saying that they do not impart that knowledge onto you in a classroom.
 
UofW is pretty good from what I hear. (University of Waterloo)
 
user1596138
Tbh school in the US is expensive sure, but people are approaching it like total idiots.
 
5:17 PM
@AwalGarg most of them (at least here) are amazing and full of really smart people.
 
being around academics in real life is a great way to end up with a bruised academic and assault charges
 
@HatterisMad that means you had shitty teachers.
 
user1596138
Seriously, you're gonna go to school at 18/19 and come out with more debt than a house before you even have a job in an industry?! The fuck man
 
/me looks at 40k debt
cough
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Now you're getting to the fun part: How do you get accepted to a non-broken university/college? You get good grades in high-school.
 
5:17 PM
@Jhawins here, very few people go to school before age 21
 
@Jhawins more debt than a house?
 
@Zirak in here or in the US?
 
how expensive is your uni???
 
user2620028
@benjamin i have had some fantastic teachers but they have all had too many students to be able to cater to each one as much as they need to
 
@Zirak How do you get good grades in high school?
 
5:18 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Both.
 
user1596138
I saw this was how it was and I decided I wouldn't have it. My software engineering career is a means to further my education. This is not my end-goal career
 
@HatterisMad sounds like a shitty school.
 
@Zirak there are several bars named 'sakura' near me, and now Google is showing me travel times and reviews.
 
user2620028
@benjamin University of Illinois
 
user1596138
@rlemon I just remember @Shmiddty's number
 
5:18 PM
thaaanks
 
user1596138
Also houses here are <$100K so
 
I hate you
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum kinda hard to believe but if you say so :)
 
@KendallFrey You sleep with the teacher or something. At least in my experience (and many other people's), high school is not a place of learning, it's a grade factory
 
user2620028
@jhawins yeah houses in springfield are like $30 - 60k
 
5:19 PM
@Zirak do you know just how low the requirements for a CS degree (through a Math one, and transferring after the first year) are? Paraphrasing on the bible, education is like a whore with her legs spread in the city gates waiting for people to take her.
 
maybe just because of my present location.. iunno
 
user1596138
High school is stupid. But that's not what we're talking about
 
houses here - 280K+
 
user1596138
(I didn't go anyway I was homeschooled)
 
@AwalGarg you're in high school...
 
5:19 PM
@Zirak indeed
 
@Zirak just to be sure, lemme check.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum no?
 
@AwalGarg wait, didn't you say you wanna be 18 the other day?
 
I don't think all schools are broken, but the availability of good education in the world is seriously lacking.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Not that low, and not that unexpensive
 
user1596138
5:20 PM
@rlemon fortwayne.craigslist.org/reb/4957694006.html (random pick off CL)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yep. But I skipped 2 grades earlier so... college.
 
user1596138
I say open your eyes and approach the challenge of higher education from a realistic standpoint.
 
user1596138
That's why I'm in this chat room today.
 
random pick (second in housing)
 
user1596138
5:21 PM
@rlemon That is very nice
 
user1596138
I'll find something opf comparable price ;P
 
@Zirak mostly free (a lot of people get scholarships), and very low - just check em. Not to mention you can get a year of "pre-university" and get in without any issues.
 
user1596138
 
@Jhawins meh. having just toured a bunch of houses exactly like that one it isn't
@Jhawins see, SEE
now you understand why I hate you
:(
 
user1596138
$325K is a luxury house here dude.
 
user1596138
5:22 PM
And >5 acres if you want
 
that's so cheap
The house down the road from me is ~750k
and it's like
 
user1596138
Jeez...
 
Not that nice
 
Oh, we're talking housing costs?
 
user1596138
We built a 2800 sq ft log cabin in 2000 on 7 acres... It was like 300K
 
5:23 PM
It's right beside the university and has 10 bedrooms though
 
user2620028
@jhawins yeah that is comparable to where i lived in the states too lol
 
my parents' 3br/1acre was a little over $300k
 
@SomeKittens no, we're hatin on J because houses in fort wayne are pennies
 
@Zirak direct acceptance for someone with a 6.0 grade average after bonuses and an aptitude (under 700 psychometric grade) for math.
That's a CS degree
 
@rlemon but you're not paying for the convenience of living nowhere near absolutely anything ever
 
@ssube I would rather be isolated.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I did check 'em, and I don't know what you got, but it's definitely not free. and for a lot of courses it's definitely not low. I've got friends and a few relative who're going or about to go, and it wasn't any fun for them
 
if I have internet I'm good.
 
5:24 PM
I'm not looking for houses in Texas. I have absolutely no intention to settle down here
 
user2620028
@jhawins what about it lol
 
Open university is great in terms of acceptance, difficult in terms of price.
 
@Zirak that's the lowest possible scores for high school grades, and anything but math and a nice (but not amazing) grade in math (just showing an aptitude) and you get automatically accepted.
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad <350K to build
 
@Zirak scholarships are abundant for those who have actual financial issues.
Most people I know had one form or another.
 
user2620028
5:25 PM
@jhawins for the land?
 
posted on May 01, 2015 by Alex R. Young

When I see yet another reactive programming library, I think to myself "that's just not functional enough!" And the libraries that keep me interested in JavaScript are almost always pushing functional practices or static type checking. Therefore I was interested to see Flyd (GitHub: paldepind/flyd, License: MIT, npm: flyd

 
user1596138
No idk the land price but it was cheap
 
@SomeKittens lol
 
user1596138
The land is on a separate mortgage
 
user2620028
@jhawins wonder what it would cost to make my own track :P
 
user2620028
5:25 PM
@jhawins buy the land and rent equipment for a weekend hehe
 
user1596138
lol we are camping in the yard on that street view link. Rednecks
 
@Zirak the entry barriers, even for people who did not do well at high school at all are relatively low, and scholarships aren't an issue here - contrast that with the US where people have tens of thousands of dollars of student loans.
 
user2620028
@jhawins is that tar and rock or aged asphalt?
 
HAMMERZEIT!
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad Where?
 
user1596138
5:27 PM
The road?
 
user2620028
@jhawins the road directly underneath the streetview
 
@CapricaSix AMAZING
 
user1596138
We call that chip N seal
 
@Zirak you are a genius.
 
Who the fuck builds a road from chips and seals?
 
user2620028
5:27 PM
@jhawins yeah tar and rock
 
@HatterisMad did you take calculus and linear algebra in college?
 
user1596138
Our county loves it. It lasts about 3 years before the entirety of the road has to be redone
 
@Jhawins looks exactly like here, with less hills
 
user2620028
@benjamin no
 
user1596138
@KendallFrey I love ON so much
 
user2620028
5:28 PM
Indiana has a hill?
 
user1596138
It feels like home... Just spread out a lot more
 
user2620028
man made?
 
@HatterisMad wait what? What degree are you studying towards?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Cool, I'll concede that CS in your university is embracing (which is odd by itself). Have you checked how oddly difficult psychology is? And I've also started looking into going to the open university (probably gonna do basic math courses, then chemistry and literature), and got sad
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad we do have a hill! Hoosier hill!
 
5:28 PM
But yes, it's better than the US. Obviously.
 
user2620028
@benjamin Bachelors of Computer Science
 
@SomeKittens I am potato
 
@Zirak Psychology is harder, and getting into an MSc is even harder there - it's a lot about supply and demand I agree.
 
user1596138
Highest point in the state at 1,257 feet above sea level (average is 800 lol)
 
user2620028
@benjamin i tested out of the math classes during my acceptance testing? don't know what to call it. I do still have to take a statistics class though
 
5:29 PM
wow
 
@Zirak lots of people doing what you're doing are doing stuff at the open university, I warmly recommend it.
@HatterisMad you're completing a CS degree without a single course in calculus or linear algebra :O?
 
I attended the School of SO. Basically all you have to do is lurk in the chats and google the fuck out of every term 20k+ers say that you don't understand. BOOM! #ballin
 
that's almost as flat as your mom's chest
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Might be able to if I get into prostitution. But then, who'd buy me?
 
user2620028
@benjamin fact
 
5:30 PM
@Zirak o/
 
@HatterisMad do you know how to formally reduce the subset sum problem to 3-sat?
 
@Zirak Here, have a truckful of student debt!
 
user2620028
3-sat?
 
user1596138
@rlemon :fistbump:
 
@HatterisMad can you prove formally (including the roots of unity part) that FFT performs a DFT in nlogn?
 
5:31 PM
@KendallFrey Your standards are so low, East West looks at you in disgust.
 
user2620028
You are using terms that i do not know.
 
@HatterisMad holy fuck dude.
 
@HatterisMad Can you reverse the polarity of the neutron flow?
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum school isn't the same thing here..
 
@HatterisMad If they didn't teach you math, algorithmics, or computability what the heck are you studying there?
 
user2620028
5:32 PM
@benjamin what part of I am almost a college graduate do you not understand? lol
 
@HatterisMad oh lol, I thought you had one semester remaining to finish college. Haha, sorry bro
 
user1596138
21 mins ago, by Jhawins
@BenjaminGruenbaum you didn't go to school here (neither did I) so you'll have trouble arguing your point to them.
 
user2620028
@benjamin i have one semester remaining to finish college but i have already completed all of my degree requirement courses
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Be nice, Dad.
 
@HatterisMad now I'm confused...
 
5:33 PM
CS is math here in Canada. ._. 2 mandatory intro to programming courses followed by straight math for 4 years
 
@HatterisMad in one semester you'll have a CS degree?
 
user2620028
@benjamin i have one more semester to get a bachelors of computer science
 
@HatterisMad then holy fuck dude.
 
user2620028
@benjamin and i have already finished all of my computer science classes
 
in the US, math does you
 
5:34 PM
What the heck did they teach you?
 
@Cereal where did/do you go?
 
user2620028
@benjamin all i have left are like psych 101 and art 101 and that kind of stuff
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum talk to @SterlingArcher or any of the other guys here who went to school, @HatterisMad isn't an exception he is doing the US version os a CS degree.
 
user2620028
@benjamin most of the time they didnt even bother? Just give you a grade for attendance
 
@rlemon ..where didj'a come from, Cotton Eyed Joe!
 
5:34 PM
Really, CS is just a subset of math
 
@Jhawins doesn't matter, what he's describing is an abomination, it's like doing a Biology degree and not knowing what a cell is.
 
@rlemon University of New Brunswick Fredericton. Their CS program is modeled after the University of Waterloo
 
user2620028
@benjamin which is why i switched to online because you turn your computer on and walk away and thats attendance
 
@HatterisMad I am just curious, what programming languages do you know well enough?
 
@Jhawins no, that's nothing like what a CS degree looks in many schools in the US.
 
user1596138
5:35 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Like I said, be nice. Fuck off if you're gonna go entitled shit on him over this.
 
user2620028
@awal i have not had anyone tell me what well enough is yet... I have not had a way to formally measure myself.
 
@Cereal I have never heard anyone from UW complain it is all math
 
@Jhawins I definitely am going to go all entitled and I definitely won't fuck off.
 
user1596138
You don't even live here.
 
user1596138
The fuck do you have to say about what a CS degree is here?
 
5:35 PM
@HatterisMad this is nothing like what Academia looks like in good places. I'm sorry for your experience it does sound horrible.
 
user2620028
@jhawins no its fine. He is right. This is my point however. My college is supposed to be a fantastic college for a computer science degree and they don't even attempt to give you the opportunity to learn anything.
 
user1596138
You're acting insulting and I know it doesn't insult me personally but it offends me.
 
@rlemon Certainly wasn't complaining, just piping in. It's like 70% math, 30% CS theory. All the math is very applicable to CS
 
user2620028
@Benjamin i am not offended, This is the point i have been making the entire time.
 
@HatterisMad holy shit dude... that sounds horrible.
 
5:36 PM
@Cereal still, are you sure they are not just trying to make it sound better "modeled after UW" ??
 
user2620028
@benjamin i wish i had the money to get the opportunity to learn something. I don't. So i try to learn it in the field by experience or talking to you fine folk.
 
for the record, I never attended but all of my friends did.
 
@HatterisMad coursera.
 
all for the CE or CS program.
 
Ben: HOLY SHIT HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS THING THAT I KNOW
3
 
5:37 PM
Their courses are mostly pretty great.
 
what it looks like to me
 
@rlemon They probably are. When I was looking for a school, it was basically between UW and UNB. I picked UNB just because it was closer, and my CS teacher in high school said it was almost the same as UW
 
@KendallFrey he has a CS degree and he doesn't know the things that are taught in introductory courses here. I'm not trying to talk down to him I'm genuinely shocked.
 
17 mins ago, by rlemon
I don't think all schools are broken, but the availability of good education in the world is seriously lacking.
 
user1596138
If I knew jack of shit about Israel I'd ask you something they don't teach you.
 
5:38 PM
@HatterisMad Any language in which you can write a function and call it back.
 
@Jhawins Israel has many many many problems, and our education system is very very far from great.
 
user1596138
All I know is you guys have a shield and are scared to drive very far north.
 
@Cereal meh, could be. like I said, I never went. but you are the first person I've heard say it is mostly math.
 
@Jhawins how many states does the USA have
 
user2620028
@awal oh hell... uhm i would have to sit down and think about how many that would be haha
 
user1596138
5:38 PM
@KendallFrey I think we have like hunter2
 
You know what, that's a good idea.
 
user1596138
Oh wait that's not a number
 
@KendallFrey 48, and don't you tell me different.
commie
 
IIRC the answer is like 46
 
I'll ask a friend of mine who went to a college (and not a university) here these same questions and see what they know.
 
5:39 PM
@rlemon Interesting. Could be I've just been picking math heavy so far
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum College === University
 
^ in the states
 
user1596138
Yeah, and we're disputing the States :P. I'm saying I don't understand the distinction
 
just clarifying
 
@Jhawins in Israel, the system is a bit different, a college is not a university - a college can earn university status but most colleges are not performing research and universities are.
 
5:40 PM
in Canada, as a rough generalization: College: applied. University: theory
 
user1596138
But if you're just going to say "Yeah my buddy knew this too and you didn't harrrr harr!" don't waste his time, your time, or our time.
 
Can confirm rlemon's description of canada
 
user1596138
Yeah we don't even try to make that distinction lol
 
user2620028
@awal Java, JS, PHP, ASP.NET, VB, C, C++, C#, Scheme, LISP, Prolog, Assembly...... I am sure i am forgetting quite a few...
 
user2620028
@awal i would also have to probably refresh myself on them to remember the intricacies as well. But those are the languages i have used for something or other at one point in time.
 
5:41 PM
@HatterisMad Write a function in Assembly and call it back? I've never read assembly functions.
 
@HatterisMad scheme is a lisp
 
PHPscript++.NET
 
Well I can google that actually.
 
just saying, and asp.net isn't a language.
@SomeKittens awesome.
 
user2620028
5:42 PM
@benjamin aware but is a subset
 
asp.net is a headache ;_;
 
asp is the worst
 
user2620028
@benjamin noting the difference in C# and ASP.NET functionality and code.
 
@rlemon asp != asp.net
 
I didn't say it was
 
5:42 PM
ASP.NET is nice :D
 
@rlemon @Jhawins Any house for $140k here would be a fixer-upper
 
@rlemon didn't say you said it was
 
@KendallFrey apples !== oranges
 
user1596138
@Shmiddty A fixer-upper here is <$30K and you fix it and resell it for $90K
 
!!listcommands
 
5:43 PM
@Shmiddty 666, help, listen, eval, coffee, refresh, forget, info, listcommands, tell, afk, ban, unban, convert, define, doge, google, hang, jquery, learn, put..it..back...ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ, phucket, gtfo, moneycantbuylove, catmode, coffeetime, lifeban, stopmyself, instagram, kendallfrey, excited, manigga, meinneger, dgaf, infiniteriot, okay, feelsgoodman, fabulous, sausage, playerpimp, installjavascript, moarkittens, kendall, banana, kfc, uwot, nsfw, facepalm, somekittens, erase, fry, dudeism
hahastillhere, onebox, morecoffee, steve, whoosh, burn, woosh, roomowner, phony, really, inur, coffeescript,
 
I don't mind coming off as a douche, I care more that @Jhawins gets a contra-opinion to "school is bad".
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you can be quite snobby at times.
 
But school is bad
 
but you are still smart so I try to ignore it
 
runs
 
user2620028
5:43 PM
@benjamin I never said that learning is a bad thing. I merely said that schools in America typically do not facilitate learning.
 
user1596138
I think I'm the only one here even saying he wants to go get a degree, so.
 
!!info ^5
 
@AwalGarg Command ^5, created by Sterling Archer on Tue, 21 Oct 2014 21:08:51 GMT but hasn't been used yet
 
@rlemon I realize, but I don't really care about being snobby around you guys I know you for years.
 
user2620028
@jhawins i wouldn't be doing it if i didn't want the degree
 
5:44 PM
@Jhawins I would love one. but I don't wanna nighschool and can't afford full time.
 
!!^5
 
#shittyTumblrGifs
 
user1596138
I could just save smartly and say fuck it all and retire at 35 instead
 
user2620028
@rlemon I almost just freaked out and asked you how you can not afford full time. Then i remembered you probably meant a good school lol.
 
5:45 PM
There are a lot of people solving interesting problems that are possible, but very hard to solve without a degree. If you have the discipline to go through the relevant coursera courses you can do it but very few people do (and I have mad respect for them).
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad Can't afford because he doesn't have time
 
@HatterisMad because if I'm going to school full time how do I pay my mortgage, bills, car, etc.
full time school or full time job
can't have both unfortunately.
 
user2620028
@rlemon i have had three jobs, one of which was a full time job. And still did full time school.
 
user2620028
in addition to tons of other responsibilities that i had.
 
user1596138
You're younger
 
5:46 PM
sure it is possible, but I have done my period of working like a dog.
 
user2620028
And did not slack on any of it. Just have to have motivation.
 
user1596138
Shit gets hard, even I know that.
 
user2620028
fair nuff
 
I'm perfectly content to let other people discover the amazing things, as long as I can read about them on Wikipedia
 
!!learn ifuckedup "<>http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/i_fucked_up_will_ferrel‌​l.gif"
 
5:46 PM
You can be insanely successful as a programmer without school, lots of people (some in this room) make more money than me and don't have a degree- some are probably better programmers and better engineers.
 
@Shmiddty Command ifuckedup learned
 
But people without a degree would have a hard time doing a lot of things.
 
@Jhawins eat less cheese
 
usually.
 
user1596138
I just got my first real job so, we will see.
 
5:47 PM
I don't have a degree, I probably make more than a lot of you, a lot of you are better programmers than me. without a degree getting the interview has been harder (until I got experience)
but not impossible.
 
Experience > Degree in terms of employability
 
user2620028
I almost have the degree and i can't even get an interview.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I am tempted to ask you how :P
 
but with only 3-4 years experience and no degree, I've been passed over for someone with 1 year experience and a degree
 
@AwalGarg you can't do machine learning at a high level if you don't understand multi-dimentional calculus on matrices, what a convex function is, what a normal distribution is and what a proof looks like.
 
user1596138
5:48 PM
I think I'm gonna be ok, I think the industry average pay (with a 4 year degree) is some like $9K less than my new salary and I have $0 school debt and am 20..
 
@AwalGarg you can't do computer vision, or image processing, or big data, or lots of other things.
 
^ bullshit
 
@rlemon please, do call me on it.
Show me wrong.
 
school isn't the only place you can learn these things
 
I wouldn't say "can't do", but it can definitely be more difficult.
 
5:49 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, how does this relate to a university?
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum You just said you can't "do big data" without a degree? Horseshit?
 
user1596138
You said you can';t do image processing? Dogshit
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Define "big data" before you say people can't do it.
 
Hey, if you're the sort of person who can teach yourself university-level content, that's great, and we're starting to get the point where that's viable... but that's not everyone.
 
user1596138
Computer vision - Llamashit. That was all just shit
 
5:50 PM
@AwalGarg they teach you the fundamentals (linear algebra, calculus etc) at the university.
 
also, image processing? ehem ehem
 
By some standards, we have enough data to be considered "big" at work.
 
user1596138
@darkyen00 hey how well do you handle image processing without a degree?
 
PROTIP: Turn data into big data by encoding it as XML.
 
@ssube processing anything data set that does not fit into the memory of a single (or bounded-in-advance number) of computers.
 
5:51 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I learn all this without going to university, now tell me what is stopping me to do all of that?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum so are you claiming that there are things you can only learn in school?
 
6 mins ago, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
There are a lot of people solving interesting problems that are possible, but very hard to solve without a degree. If you have the discipline to go through the relevant coursera courses you can do it but very few people do (and I have mad respect for them).
 
user1596138
While I vehemently refute your point here... I also see what the basis is, and I agree.
 
user1596138
Your examples suck... But you are making a real point.
 
You can try to refute my point, but the vast majority of programmers without a CS degree would have a very hard time doing machine learning and knowing what they're doing.
 
5:52 PM
I agreed to a point until he started saying "you can't do this and this and this" <- no, you can. you just have to learn it on your own.
 
Most people who don't have a very good and fundamental understanding of calculus and do machine learning have no idea what they're actually doing. It's like people who don't know JS or DOM but do jQuery.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Not sure where I fit in to your dichotomy, but ML is something I've stayed away from (for now).
 
@rlemon I never argued that, you can learn everything in a degree on your own, it's just very hard and very few people do.
 
anything I see is way out of my league.
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum The vast majority of people without a CS degree don't know what the word "scope" means in relation to programming
 
5:53 PM
that's for aiming, right
 
user1596138
Yeah, they'll try to aim with blocks if I talk to them about Python
 
College is about more than knowledge.
 
Keggers?
 
and networking
 
user1596138
Keggels
 
5:54 PM
@Jhawins maybe, I don't know, but even amongst the people who do know what it is, those without a CS degree are much less likely to deal with fields that require deep abstract understanding of mathematical concepts like machine learning, image processing and vision.
 
all good things
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum People without CS degrees are going to have a strong grasp of practical/applicable stuff that they've done, less so big-O notation and machine learning.
That doesn't mean they'll have any harder a time learning it.
 
and, like it or not, a degree from a reputable school goes a long way toward finding jobs
 
If anything, they'll probably pick it up quicker than folks with a degree, since they actually know what they're doing.
 
@ssube the thing is, programming is learned through practice and reading things horizontally. Learning calculus is a lot harder because you see results way way after.
 
5:55 PM
@ssube this
 
user1596138
@ssube I disagree. A triple disagree.
 
You don't understand why you're learning all this stuff until 6 courses after.
 
How many people without degrees know database normalization? (That's a serious question)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I learnt every single thing about computers only and only from internet (in spirit of coursera), and I know I am a total noob compared to everyone here but I think I am better than many people from academics in the same field. So you have mad respect for all people like me?
 
@Retsam ugh, hate that
 
5:56 PM
Huge part of college is making connections
 
user2620028
@retsam i studied database normalization on my own in 9th grade high school.
 
One thing I'm 99% certain I wouldn't have picked up in school is knowing how to actually develop software efficiently
 
"Let's store nine copies of the data just so we don't have to join!"
 
Then sorry but I disagree. Formal education has as many side effects and difficulties.
 
user1596138
I am in that position where I'm a pretty good programmer. I mean I know I grasp so much at this point, but eventually there will only be a gap left that only truly being educated can fill (whether it be through college or some other conduit for education)
 
5:56 PM
Suddenly, out of nowhere, finding a transducer for a NBW means you can formally prove hardware meets a set of requirements. Or knowing higher order calculus means you can do OCR super easy and it strikes you.
 
@ssube That's the opposite of normalization?
 
@SomeKittens no, it's getting drunk, fucking everything you see, and generally doing a lot of stuff you'll regret
 
I'm a decent programmer, but a terrible computer scientist
 
user2620028
@retsam it was a joke lol
 
@AwalGarg if you genuinely understand at a fundamental level (that you can prove it) concepts like how SVM works then yes, mad mad respect.
 
5:57 PM
I know how to use google. I'll probably be fine for a long time to come.
 
user1596138
@SomeKittens didn't you link a decent article on this subject the other day? The one that talked about getting stuck in his bowling game
 
@Retsam same topic. That's just the annoying part of it.
 
!!afk got work to do.
 
user1596138
!!afk same this is silly
 
@Jhawins Here you go: daedtech.com/…
 
5:57 PM
@Retsam that's not a good question IMO, normalization is easy to grasp - ask how many people without a degree knows how a DB works internally or what Armstrom's axioms aret
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't. Why SVM?
 
user1596138
!!change Room.description += "Demotivating since " + Room.startDate;
 
@Jhawins That didn't make much sense. Maybe you meant: hang
 
@AwalGarg what is "your field"? I just threw SVM out there as a basic ML concept
 
user2620028
@retsam although my college has not mentioned anything about databases ever
 
user1596138
5:58 PM
I suddenly am feeling anti-education again :/
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I could name plenty of people with a degree who don't know
 
@Jhawins just ignore it, room wide pissing contest. :D
stay out of the spray area
 
user2620028
@jhawins don't do that. Education is a good thing.
 
@nderscore you think people who went to a top 500 school don't know what a block-nested-loop-join is?
 
I'm not anti-education, but I am often anti-school
 
5:59 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum how many people with or without a degree need to know what those things are?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum My field? I think you already know. But well the web in general, and most related dev-ops.
 
The trick is that people without degrees know the stuff that matters and pick up theory along the way.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Not over here in the US. All the schools are diploma mills built to take all your money and push you through the system.
 
People with degrees pile theory on to a problem until they lose sight of what the hell they're trying to solve.
 
user1596138
@rlemon That's what I'm eluding to. Nobody is saying anything useful at all just spewing their waste of time
 
5:59 PM
@Jhawins rlemon is afk: got work to do.
 

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