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10:04 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Exactly 7 pages of 36 each
!!> 7 * 36
 
It's not updated. Also - the number is literally written there.
 
@CapricaSix ??
But yeah, 252
 
Also, the fact you can't do 7*6*6 = 42*6 = 252 :P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I prefer 7*30+7*6
 
10:06 PM
Why does Windows have to be so horrible at managing %PATH%
 
!!s/at.+//
Dammit cap!
 
who the fuck thought 2000 chars would ever be enough
 
@KendallFrey Enough for what?
 
%PATH%
 
@KendallFrey Oh, same guy who though that printing 15 files at once should be plenty.
 
10:14 PM
oh
 
Who probably thinks the same as the guy who thought that 82kB of memory should be plenty for everyone.
Windows has a tendency of solving problem by limiting the user
"Afraid of a troll printing countless crap on your PC? Easy! Limit the number of files that can be printed!"
 
Gates never said that
 
"I never said '64k ought to be enough for anyone'" - Gates
so he did, in a roundabout way
 
I like the fact when I overflow the path, I'm not able to open the environment variable editor from the control panel like usual
also little things, like losing pinned programs from the taskbar
 
Windows is supposedly (not really) more stable than Linux/Unix, but when shit happens in Windows you have very little tools to actually handle it without reinstalling your entire image.
So far my Ubuntu build only ever fatally crashed once (and I abuse the shit out of it)
With the same level of abuse on Windows, I'd get blue screens with my morning coffee every day.
 
10:24 PM
I've never had to reinstall Windows
 
@KendallFrey You've never encountered a truly fatal problem then.
There's no network connectivity. No matter what I do, what drivers I install, what network cards I switch and put in, there's not network connectivity.
Format + reinstall fixes.
Linux at least gives you debugging tools
Windows gives you the "Problem fixer" that never fixes anything
This illustrates the case nicely
 
@SecondRikudo wait what?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yup
 
You've awoken the beast
 
I got a BSOD on windows 8 once, and it was a hardware issue (unplugged the hd while the OS was running)
 
10:37 PM
Prepare to be hit
 
I got ubuntu to crash lots of times. It's one of the shittiest linuxes out there
 
When you have a low level problem, windows is shet.
It'll hide facts from you, it'll try to make it look sugary and nice.
 
The only thing that makes it shittier than their ugly color choice and default shell, and the spyware that comes installed is how much it crashes.
 
Windows isn't the problem. Malware and drivers are
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's the same on both. Only a (shitty) kernel driver or mod crashes the system
Like Virtualbox
 
10:39 PM
@SecondRikudo bitch please, I've compiled Mandrake when you were still using windows 98. I've debugged my fair share of shit. In 99% of cases when it crashes in windows there is nothing you could have done in linux.
 
Or the nvidia driver
 
@copy and bugs in the window manager but yeah those are rarer. There was a nice idea once with the protection rings - but I agree that it's usually shitty drivers.
@copy as linus torvalds famously said: "fuck you nvidia"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum The window manager can only crash the graphical environment (at least, it's only supposed to be able to)
 
But yeah - linux is pretty stable to use as is windows. Especially distros that are not ubuntu.
@copy supposed to is such a nice ideal :D
 
I don't see how it could
 
10:41 PM
It's like explorer.exe crashing on windows, usually it's the window manager but sometimes it fucks up.
 
The only times my Mint install has crashed are:
1) SteamWorld Dig, when unlocking a Steam card
2) Kerbal Space program, with certain graphics settings
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Unity crashed your system (as in, kernel panic)?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum On the flipside, I crashed Windows about a dozen times, only managed to truly crash my arch install a couple (once was during an installation when I went a bit batshit crazy)
 
Personal experiences are statistically irrelevant
 
@copy yes, several times (kernel panic) - it's quite possible that what actually crashed my computer was the display drivers and unity just abused them.
@Zirak yes, but I don't really see a stability advantage to linux windows or mac in the last few years - if you don't mess with it too much and make sensible installation choices you'll get something that works in a relatively stable way.
The reason I prefer windows is that it usually has better driver support, less configuration and there is a bunch of software that runs only on it.
The reason I prefer linux is that deploying linux servers is a lot less magical, a lot easier to work with from the cli and there is a bunch of software that only runs on it.
@dystroy gravatar
 
10:48 PM
@darkyen00 found one yet?
 
@dystroy Self hosted
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum once again? ;)
 
@AwalGarg @SecondRikudo was snarky - then again he uses ubuntu with unity :S
 
The usage patterns of every user of your web application is none of the businesses of a random web service
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum lolwut? Better driver support?
 
10:50 PM
@SecondRikudo much.
 
Better than Ubuntu, maybe.
 
Better than pretty much every linux out there for the desktop.
 
usatlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/… @SecondRikudo Let it goooooo
 
It's not about the distro - drivers aren't that hard to port usually.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum ftr, my personal experience says that driver support is better on canonical's shit :P
 
user4330208
10:51 PM
This is going to sound so dumb but how do i put an element back after using remove()?
 
Meh, I just defend windows because I hate fud.
 
@Zirak But... but... I enjoy getting @BenjaminGruenbaum worked up :(
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum fud?
 
Thus creating fud for linux
 
@carb0nshel1 appendChild on its parent most likely, there is also insertBefore
@Zirak I'm not creating fud for linux.
 
user4330208
10:51 PM
whoa, that exists!
 
!!tell awal urban fud
 
@SecondRikudo I'm not worked up at all, just kind of... bored.
 
nvm got it
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum vOv
 
<troll> It's not uncertainty, it's for realz! </troll>
 
user4330208
10:52 PM
i guess theres no undo() built in
 
Bed time for me anyway
GN yall
 
@carb0nshel1 no. You can implement undo with a stack.
 
user4330208
@SecondRikudo Good night sweet heart.
 
well, I am not sleepy... how about we settle for once and for all that windows is crap? XD (j/k)
 
@carb0nshel1 I don't think I've met a programming language that provides an .undo() operation on anything.
 
10:52 PM
@SecondRikudo good night sweet prince, dream of sheep.
 
@SecondRikudo see ya man
 
@SecondRikudo oh boy, you're in for a treat when you learn functional programming.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'll dream of your mom.
@BenjaminGruenbaum undos? Really?
 
user4330208
btw i said sweetheart but no homo
 
Bah, later.
 
10:53 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum *programming with immutable data structures
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum have you used Unity's menu explorer?
 
@SecondRikudo yes.
@copy yeah, I guess that's true. Although functions being referentially transparent is a big part of it.
 
> @SecondRikudo I googled and I researched but I find nothing and I will not try something ;) because I can ask for them – Abdellah 20 mins ago
 
@darkyen00 you slept so early? :P
 
user4330208
Please don't kick again. Also, why was I kicked?
 
10:56 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I think the big part is that storing two large but only slightly different trees takes little more memory than storing a single tree. Using immutable data structures
 
@carb0nshel1 well, for the sexuality remark, mostly. Kicks are private though.
 
user4330208
Interesting.
 
@copy yes, the concept of batching mutations and only creating a new data structure when you have to is a nice one indeed. DBs for example do it all the time for transactions and performance.
 
user4330208
I may have done a little trolling in the past but these stacked kicks are getting to me. I've turned over a new leaf. I want to learn and help the community.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I mean sharing large parts of the tree
 
10:58 PM
@copy yes, me too.
 
@carb0nshel1 Awesome. Prove it.
 
ok
 
user4330208
I'll prove it alright @Zirak. I'll prove it good.
 
Looking forward to it
 
@carb0nshel1 kicking isn't punishment - only mods punish. Kicking is to give you a short duration of time (1-30 minutes) to think about your actions and to let you know that some owners of the room disagreed with them.
If anyone thought you deserve punishment rather than to be informed that a room owner thinks that you should think about what you said - it would have been a mod-flag.
 
user4330208
11:02 PM
Sometimes I lose rep after being kicked though.
 
user4330208
Unless that was something else like a ban?
 
chat kicking does not involve loss of rep
 
return :: Monad m => a -> m a
(>>) :: Monad m   => m a -> m b -> m b
(>>=) :: Monad m  => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
liftM :: Monad m  => (a1 -> r) -> m a1 -> m r
(ap) :: Monad m   => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b
fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
 
When you chat you attract attention to your answers and questions so make sure you have high quality content
 
Monads make perfect sense if you look at what you can do with them
 
11:07 PM
@copy yes, although only 3 of those are necessary in order for it to be a monad (return, liftM and >>=)
 
Yes, that's my personal reference for reading code, because I haven't memorized all of them
 
The rest are clever ways to look at those three.
But yeah, when you think about what monads abstract it's quite obvious why they are needed and what they accomplish.
It's also clear why they're only popular by that name in Haskell but are used throughout many programming languages in cases they need to abstract chaining.
 
I started with OCaml, because it's not lazy and lets me write code imperatively, but it ended up being too painful (not having $, for example), so I'm back to Haskell
 
@copy I'm taking a Haskell course that starts next week (in 8 days) because I feel like my Haskell can be way better and the online resources I found were basic - so I need something to force me to churn out a lot of code fast. I'm already using it but I think I can be better.
I've only read OCaml though, never really written it.
At least not at reasonable complexity
 
Has anybody here used Haste?
 
11:15 PM
Yes
 
I didn't really have a question, but I do now
 
I tried to use Haste :P
 
requestAnimationFrame: supported?
@BenjaminGruenbaum that's where I am now
 
@KendallFrey sure. In general just like you can unsafePerformIO you can call JS (which you sure is type safe and can prove it with the typesystem) with Haste.
 
the example appears to be broken
 
11:16 PM
The biggest issues I've had with Haskell were because of tooling
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum What tools? (integration with vim works nicely)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum What do you mean? calling functions directly, even if they aren't explicitly supported by Haste?
 
@copy yeah, I use vim when doing languages without good ides that doesn't bother me that much (C, C++ etc) - that's hardly the problem. Cabal was a pain for example - getting everything working was a pain. I agree that the error messages are getting a lot better throughout the ecosystem but I don't know - it always felt so... half baked.
 
Error messages in a language like Haskell are hard, I guess
 
@KendallFrey haste-lang.org/docs/haddock/0.4.4/Haste-Foreign.html although there should be something baked in for RAF
 
user4330208
11:20 PM
If I remove a bunch of elements with different class names and innerHTML - how would I tell insertBefore() to remember all of those elements...is it even possible?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum nothing I can see in the docs
 
@copy it feels like C++ templates, it's often a pain. It's like - whenever I trust type inference too much it ends up biting me.
@carb0nshel1 just... keep references to the elements?
 
user4330208
Sounds impossible.
 
user4330208
i only read the first page of w3schools so
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I used C++ templates once. The error message was hundreds of lines long (but yeah, I agree)
 
11:22 PM
I use C++ templates often when they make sense - the zen I've found with them is to use them where I would have used generics in other languages had generics done what I would have wanted them to and nothing more.
 
user4330208
Wait. So instead of removing - first I put them in an array! Genius.
 
user4330208
Thanks k bye.
 
my god...
They said haste output was around 3x hand-coded JS
In this case, it's like 30x
 
@KendallFrey so what?
Haste is for fun, my god don't actually use it at work or anything crazy like that :D
 
still
 
11:25 PM
It's a constant overhead that diminishes when your application grows
Like __hs_alphare
 
Yeah, I bet a lot of it is bootsrapping
 
well, no built-in RAF, I think that's enough for tonight
underwhelming
 
look how verbose babel is babeljs.io/repl/…
 
I'll try to FFI rAF
 
When we are talking about scope in javascript, more precisely we are talking about scope chain?. So terms "scope" and "scope chain" are interchangeable(synonymous)?
 
11:31 PM
I don't even know what "scope chain" is
 
@Srle 'scope" is usually the duration of the code variables can be accessed from.
 
less the duration and more the location
 
@Benjamin Gruenbaum, for me 'scope' is just higher abstraction of 'scope chain'
 
If I say something rude would you be offended?
 
11:37 PM
hahahhaha of course not :D
 
@Srle Yes, because you don't understand what either of those words mean most likely.
@Zirak heh
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum, that is not rude :D
 
TDZs bother me.
 
You're bothered by thidiazuron?
 
11:42 PM
!!> typeof x; let x = 5;
Damnit caprica -_-
!!live
Whatevs. Run that in firefox see what happens.
!!> { typeof y; let y = 5; }
 
Hello world :)
 

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