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11:00
@Zirak yeah somenthing like that but i would preferr a keyboard combination like cmd+g just for example ;)
It's the very first time in history he does that.
just giving inputs then do what you want obviously ;)
@OctavianDamiean What bothered me is that it was unprovoked. You could tell him 'Google it' and binned his message for example.
Unfortunately for OK OK reputations carry weight for patience. I wouldn't rage on you for asking a vamp question because you've built up a respectable reputation here and I know you will give as well as receive.. OK OK will not.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Quit being a douche ...
11:00
This is the 10th result by the way and the first that is relevant. hacks.mozilla.org/2011/01/how-to-develop-a-html5-image-uploader
@OctavianDamiean I'm not being a douche, I am simply disagreeing with you here.
user1125394
!!/norris
@cx Hellen Keller's favorite color is Chuck Norris.
@rlemon you prevented as usually i helped a lot on stack not only in chat
I told you that we've told him a myriad of times to google stuff like that first ...
user1125394
!!/google Hellen Keller
You don't even make sense
@OctavianDamiean It was not a trivial question imo, it involves Canvas.
We don't want to give users the finger.
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone You can open a new tab with Ctrl+T
Some users we do
@BenjaminGruenbaum So? Just because it's not a trivial question it means he shouldn't investigate for himself before hitting an implementation problem?
11:02
@OctavianDamiean So you perma ban him?
@BenjaminGruenbaum Stop saying we. I'm part of we and I want.
That means only a part of us might not want that.
user1125394
!!/choose @rlemon @rlime
Not the whole of us.
@cx rlemon
@OctavianDamiean I'm sorry, so you want to give users the finger?
11:03
Yes, I do want. For certain users I do.
@cx Neither
It's no secret.
The variable highlighting is nice
I wish we had our own meta :P
@Neil Yeah it is.
They have that in Eclipse, but for some reason they don't with VS 2010
11:05
@BenjaminGruenbaum Also one can't compare you with okok. I know that you are capable and willing to investigate on your own.
That's the difference between you and him.
And... Not a total douche ..
@OctavianDamiean You know I respect you and value your opinion however I still believe you are mistaken here. He was banned for two weeks and has not been rude since - at least not deliberately. This sort of muting is what drives him into bad behavior in the first place.
If a user doesn't show any effort to improve, then he should fucking stay away and not waste everyone's time.
No he still makes pokes
@BenjaminGruenbaum he hasn't really got better.
user1125394
11:06
!!/urban douche
@BenjaminGruenbaum With the last point I disagree. His bad behaviour is what brought the bans.
when I'm not on mobile I can show examples
@cx douche a word to describe an individual who has shown themself to be very brainless in one way or another, thus comparing them to the cleansing product for vaginas.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Alright, dig a bit deeper than that. Why do you think we get situations like this one with said user?
It's pretty simple, there are some very little things that he would have to change for us to feel much differently about him.
11:07
@Zirak I'm not saying it was not deserved and I'm not saying we should not have done so - you know the whole thing had my own support through the entire process. Moreover, you know I am the one who urged and pinged the mods to take care of it. However, I do believe it was unprovoked here.
@OctavianDamiean Honestly? We just recently got a tool that gives us a lot of power over who has access to this room and we're not very good with it yet. I know I'm still not completely confident when I mute. Especially since we're in StackOverflow which is an extremely constructive place generally speaking.
I think the heart of the matter is that statistically, the odds are against him
@Neil, yes but that's his fault
@BenjaminGruenbaum Repeatedly showing a lack of interest to improve, that is doing the same mistake over and over again is a provocation.
@BenjaminGruenbaum In this case? Maybe. But saying that his bad behaviour was caused by his previous bans (which yes, I know you support) seems incorrect in this case.
@phenomnomnominal Yes, I think that's clear
11:09
The first time he came in here, he had an equal chance as anyone of becoming a constructive member of the room.
let's give him the chance again
@Zirak I'm not saying it caused it, I'm saying it drives it. Your first instinct when you get punished isn't 'Let's improve'.
@phenomnomnominal Maybe a bit less, since his avatar was a pile of poop.
@JanDvorak You know what they say, 6th time's the charm/
@BenjaminGruenbaum You should not forget that while this kind of control access concept might be new to most of the owners in here, I had been dealing with just that concept and users like that for over an entire year.
"great teacher, how often should I forgive; seven times?"
11:11
@OctavianDamiean I remember that, that's in the back of my head and that's what scares me the most. No offense, you know I have nothing but respect for you and what you've done for the chat, but I don't want this to turn out like the Android room.
@BenjaminGruenbaum, the simple fact that we are having this conversation means that we won't.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Of course not, punishment like this rarely works. But we lack anything else. So his motivation should be "because I want to be a member of this chat", which he doesn't want to be.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Because the Android room's quality is so bad, right? Regulars and new users can chat troll and vampire free.
Judging from his continued attitude towards it, anyway.
Obviously we have different opinions about this stuff, I know I probably have less tolerance for his particular brand of annoyance, but I'm sure we can all agree he is a particularly unique case.
11:12
@OctavianDamiean But at the cost of good discussions
@Zirak Absolutely not.
How's the quality of discussions related to that?
vamping should be ignored, trolling should be fought against
They still get new users everyday, have deep technical discussions and so on.
Vamping is actually worse than trolling often. Trolls are usually easier to identify
11:13
A first-timer just getting here can introduce awesome discussions; he can't if he's not allowed to chat.
Trolls and help vampires never contributed to the quality of a discussion.
@Zirak Of course, that's why this concept is way better than the Android concept, but okok is not new.
Look, all I probably wouldn't have said anything if it was a 10 minute ban, or a 30 minute ban. Perma-banning a user for asking for something that's not trivial to find in Google, even if that user is okok seems very harsh to me.
We're not talking about new users here. If he was new, I would not have just banned him.
vamps can be starved. Trolls cannot.
I don't know how it goes in the Android room, so can't comment on that, but from previous experience with this kinds of systems...you always lose something. That's why we have a by-default FFA method.
11:15
starving is what happens to most vamps here
especially if they have bet gremmer
@Zirak I'm not against that, not at all. I've even promoted this system to the Android guys.
okok isn't interested in contributing to this community
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone ^ Are you?
But that's not the core of our discussion, we're drifting away, because I didn't see anyone object to the current concept.
He abused what should certainly be considered a privilege. So he should lose it.
11:16
you mean, the privilege of speech?
The core of the discussion is that okok has been a troll and help vampire over an over again, even after being suspended multiple times.
No, I mean free help from people who genuinely care about this stuff
vampires should be fought by starvation
IMO
sure, the first time.
What about vamipre trolls?
11:18
gist: 5875704, 2013-06-27 11:18:08Z
###Question

Who here feels that perma-banning okok for asking: 

> is it possible to cut photos on the fly with js?

[link](http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/10244104#10244104)

Was justified?

If you do not completely agree, what would you have done?

   - Nothing
   - Bin & Warn
   - 30 minute mute
   - Something else?
and making him watch and not open his mouth is starvation ;)
That's the problem, he's both.
But then someone else feeds them.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Now you comment :)
@BenjaminGruenbaum That's completely out of context ... and you know it is.
11:19
@OctavianDamiean I do not, How would you phrase that differently?
(I'm very willing to edit it)
I like how added a giant "Question" header
It's borderline reductio ad absurdum
of course it wouldn't be justified from that one comment.
@BenjaminGruenbaum you should add some bits of his history, in the context of asking questions he didn't invest any effort in.
user1125394
there should just be user-filters on SO :)
You know why I'm so fed up with him (and users like him)?
11:21
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone It can't feel nice having a group of people discussing you. We would like you to weigh in, to prove us wrong (or right).
The lack of interest in trying to improve and not to commit the same mistakes over and over again just shows disrespect towards us.
personally, I feel it's wrong to talk so much about him
What would you do?
muting or binning is not justified in my opinion - the question doesn't look like a troll to me. Ignoring is fine. I would have done nothing.
@OctavianDamiean This is a discussion, if you find evidence supporting your cause, especially post-2week-ban things that look like trolling or lack of research that convince me, which could totally happen since I don't keep close track of him I'll gladly apologize.
11:24
Guys, I am in the middle of re-vamping SO Chat with a userscript anyone have any good idea's?
Who's honnza?
@Connor see my userscript
Or @phenomnomnominal 's
I'm Honnza
@BenjaminGruenbaum syntax highlighter?
11:25
Jan = Honza in czech
@JanDvorak So you're against the muting system?
@JanDvorak what' is it and where?
@JanDvorak Ah thanks
@JanDvorak So, your opinion is that okok isn't a troll?
I'm off to shower, be back in 10
11:26
@Zirak I'm not against the muting system. I am against judging Badbeton's question as a trolling attempt.
(Again, I think that if discussion happens here that would be more helpful
@OctavianDamiean no. My opinion is that his question should not be treated as a troll.
It wasn't treated as a troll attempt.
so, do you suggest muting vamps?
It was treated as an attempt to suck from our energy and knowledge.
Yes, help vampires that won't starve to death on their own need to be killed.
11:28
so....
Opinions on native model bindings, go
@Connor sorry; I'll send you a link in a minute
can someone do me a favour and send me this in sandbox please ....
@Connor Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit. Vero, quibusdam, culpa, eveniet accusamus ipsum maxime quo dolore rerum velit fuga natus consequuntur et sint est impedit quam possimus debitis ipsam a reiciendis porro tempore placeat mollitia aperiam dicta incidunt recusandae! Quisquam, asperiores sint nobis ipsa magnam aspernatur porro dolores autem. $(document).ready(this);
user1125394
11:41
arr 48h of php refactoring finished
@BenjaminGruenbaum Commented.
Hi guys need some help in yui
Sorry it's a bit disorganized and lacking in vocabulary, I typed it while doing other things.
Ty
I think I'll pin it for a couple of hours to get everyone's opinion
@phenomnomnominal hi i need some help in yui
11:47
@AvinashGarg please don't ping random people
@AvinashGarg you also need some help in manners.
@AvinashGarg did you read the room rules?
@OctavianDamiean I hope you're not considering this disrespect. If you are, I'll gladly unpin it, I just feel that as a room we should come up with a policy.
sorry i have not read
you don't need our permission to ask
11:49
@BenjaminGruenbaum Not just room owners; regulars have just as much say in the matter of how muting is handled.
@Zirak I thought regulars === room owners
@Zirak Regulars usually correspond to room owners.
Except for edge cases
Meant that as "regular members"
"Commonfolk"
You know, the ones living in the slums
Convinced wife to see Star Trek instead of some chick flick. Great success. Be back later!
4
11:50
enjoy
@BenjaminGruenbaum internet high-five
Be careful of flumbersnappers.
@BenjaminGruenbaum you're a celebrity now
@BenjaminGruenbaum Absolutely not.
chick flick = Esmeralda?
11:54
It is funny/weird how he (@BenjaminGruenbaum) thinks disagreeing with someone shows disrespect. Don't we have about 7 fights a day?
@BenjaminGruenbaum Just to make sure you know that, I don't take any of that personal.
@Zirak I thought that was meant as a disrespect for OKOK to talk about him in publick
I think he's just being careful to be clear that it isn't meant as disrespect, he just genuinely wants the discussion to occur.
I might have approached this the wrong way, we'll see what the other folks think. I'm certainly not perfect either. ;)
@FahadMahmood Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
11:57
@JanDvorak He aimed that message at Octavian Damiean. But it is a bit uncomfortable talking about someone like this; I think Benjamin Gruenbaum asked him to pitch in at the beginning, and I asked for him to do the same a bit before the gist was posted.
Please can someone have a look at this with me:
`galleryImage.fadeOut(250, function(){ $(this).attr('src', bigLink) });
galleryImage.load(function(){
$(this).fadeIn(250); console.log('yes, I have loaded ' + bigLink);
});`
!!tell dan format
@dan Format your code - hit Ctrl+K before sending and see the faq
Yes, sorry..
@Zirak he'll probably just call us elitist no matter what.
11:58
That chunk of code looks oddly familiar
@Zirak can you elaborate?
43 mins ago, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone ^ Are you?
37 mins ago, by Zirak
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone It can't feel nice having a group of people discussing you. We would like you to weigh in, to prove us wrong (or right).
@JanDvorak Can't I do this with " ` "..?
@Dan not for multiline
So what must I do when pasting in a chunk of code/
?*
12:00
2 mins ago, by Caprica Six
@dan Format your code - hit Ctrl+K before sending and see the faq
I read the FAQ on formatting in chat, I only saw the backticks
galleryImage.fadeOut(250, function(){ $(this).attr('src', bigLink) });
		galleryImage.load(function(){
			$(this).fadeIn(250); console.log('yes, I have loaded ' + bigLink);
		});
now, what's the question?
Yep. It seems familiar.
Well, that's an improvement.
Yes, I tried to ask two days ago. And two days later I'm no wiser.
!!jquery load
12:03
Yep, so I'm loading one new image using attr().
Or at least, I thought so.
damn, i'm getting good at crashing chrome
From what I read on SO and other articles, people recommend using attr() to replace the src of an image, if you're doing an "image swap" type gallery.
$.load for the event was deprecated in 1.8
did you try with prop?
I thought I was using load() to check if my new image had been loaded, so I can then fade it in.
the image fades out, src changes (and when load is complete) fades back in. Isn't this easy..?
Never used the load event for images
12:07
..or perhaps onLoad would be better..?
imageElement.onload = fn; is what I always use
So what is jQuery's load() ..? AJAX?
yea
can an image call a function? (or a div)?
12:11
the docs mention it's not cross-browser reliable, but it would be weird for it to be less reliable than the native version
@deep how do you want it to call it?
@rlemon Yeah, I read this earlier. I'm trying to keep up.
@deep An image or a div are elements, they don't do anything.
unless you're in Java
I mean, the only other way I can see to determine an image has for sure loaded is to check height / width > 0
until it is loaded both will be 0
12:12
@rlemon will it?
yup
no browser gets this information until the image is downloaded
@rlemon <div onclick="myfunction()">click me </div>
@deep don't use inline events
I thought it would fill in as soon as the header was loaded
@deep don't use inline events with jQuery
<div id="foo">click me</div>
document.getElementById('foo').onclick = myFunction;
12:13
@rlemon Do i need the () after myfunction?
@rlemon meh. Separation of concerns is justa design pattern
This returns and error though, I was hoping to just change load() to onLoad()

galleryImage.onLoad(function(){
$(this).fadeIn(250); console.log('yes, I have loaded ' + bigLink);
});
@JanDvorak inline events make the event argument a pita to work with in this case.
@Dan onload is not a jquery method
and don't some browsers still fuck up this?
12:14
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah what's up dude?
@rlemon do we need the event argument in this case?
everythings ok now?
@JanDvorak Indeed. So I'd have to get the object the "proper" JS way right?
@JanDvorak who knows. but if there is a (imo) cleaner, and more robust way to handle it. Why not advocate it
Why wouldn't I just do this with jQuery, surely I can test if the image load has completed with jQuery.
12:16
@Dan if you want the native element, that's .get(0) or [0] or, inside a callback, this
galleryImage[0].onload = function() {
  $(this).fadeIn(250);
};
@rlemon I would be surprised if it worked the way $.load doesn't.
@rlemon Uncaught TypeError: Object #<HTMLImageElement> has no method 'onLoad'
@Dan it's not a method. It's a property you set
so what's the syntax for it?
Not this: onLoad(function(){
12:19
img.onload = function(){...}
(or img.onload = handler)
Yes, I see. I'm reading up on this at the same time. I don't know why it's " = function " but I'll find out.
you're assigning a function as a property of the element
does it make more sense as addEventListener for you?
it has its downsides (only one handler per type per element) but hey
@rlemon because who needs to support IE nowadays? :-)
12:22
doesn't IE9 support addEventListener?
also, i'm not teaching legacy IE support. google has enough of that
I know this works in all modern main stream browsers
@rlemon not sure; IE8 doesn't
user1125394
1 advantage of jquery length: on vs addEventListener
IE8 is still alive and kicking
yea IE9+
@cx yep :-)
12:24
and if he needs to support a legacy browser then he can figure that out after
What's the oldest IE that is humanly possible to support (functionality-wise; f* CSS)?
Element.prototype.on = function(evt, fn, bbl) {
  this.addEventListener(evt, fn, bbl || false);
};
@rlemon doesn't work in IE
which ie?
your beloved 8?
because i'm pretty sure IE10 will run this
you can't assign to host object prototypes in IE8
12:26
3 mins ago, by rlemon
also, i'm not teaching legacy IE support. google has enough of that
anything < latest and 1 prev I couldn't care less about (in theory) and this isn't my job so i'm not nit picking about dumb old browsers that are still in use
with that said, IE8 can shove it.
so can IE9?
once IE11 is out yes
What's currently on Win8?
it's a 'preview'
on the upside, IE9 auto-upgrades
12:28
not the same thing... kinda the same.. but MS is fucked.
@rlemon so, < latest stable and 1 prev?
I wouldn't even add the 1 prev if it wasn't for IE
what other major browser allows such a split?
so, latest stable and IE9+?
in my perfect world: latest stable from all major browser vendors.
IE9 auto-upgrades, doesn't it?
12:30
This was fun. Part of a maintenance script has a child maintainer (sub-processes and threads, slaves). So inspired by Robin Hood and Friar Tuck, I wrote conversations, with the child maintainer being Spartacus. Whenever one finished (died) it'd say things like "Alas, another casualty in our fight for justice" or "the Romans have taken our brother". Whenever a new one is spawned he'd go "Another solider to join us against the Roman empire!". Fun.
@JanDvorak isn't IE10 win8 only?
IE10 runs on win7
@rlemon unless I have W8 or IE's lying to me, no
hrm, my bad
12:32
IE11 might be, though
hrm, I would have sworn I read that they were making IE10 a win8 only thing. ohh well
oh gosh but since when IE is available for mac? :/
forever
Internet Explorer for Mac (also referred to as Internet Explorer for Macintosh, Internet Explorer Macintosh Edition, Internet Explorer:mac or IE:mac) was a proprietary web browser developed by Microsoft for the Macintosh platform. Initial versions were developed from the same code base as Internet Explorer for Windows. Later versions diverged, particularly with the release of version 5 which included the Tasman layout engine. As a result of the five-year agreement between Apple and Microsoft in 1997, it was the default browser on Mac OS and Mac OS X from 1998 until it was replaced by Appl...
12:34
uh? i mean i just found a dmg of ie :/ how is this possible?
si it doesn't have much in common with the IE for win ?
Microsoft makes your dreams come true.
or i can use it for testing ?
They made a special version of it for Macs.
So I don't think it'll be a reliable testing platform.
12:36
yeah i was imaging that
thanks
IE for Mac is deprecated afaik
Kind if like Netscape for windows or at all
oh ok
damn i thought my dreams coming true i love IE
oh lol indeed i dowloaded but i can't install it on mountain lion
IE is horrible and clunky over.
12:40
IE finally has something to put on the table (again) and they act like it's the greatest thing in the world.
they've over hyped 'coming in line with the rest'
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah, it's horribly old
and never really worked
some of the retarded things IE10 doesn't support is still just silly, and IE11 is boasting technologies Chrome and FF had ~1 year ago now.
however, I am glad it is not longer a horrible browser to program for, I just wouldn't ever use it
best way to test for IE on mac are probably the VM - images that Microsoft provides for most IE-versions
12:42
@rlemon can you imagine that their slogan is "being in line with the rest"? I mean, how loser is that?
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone Microsoft figures that although you chose a Mac, you need more Microsoft in your life and they work hard to fulfill that desire
@FlorianMargaine "IE sucks..... less" is any better?
@deep Which button? Also, your website could give eye cancer.
I wish they had IE for Linux.
12:43
Change the theme, it get that a lot, also, the maths button at the top.
@OctavianDamiean It gave me 7 eye cancers.
@deep Then make the default theme tolerable
@Zirak Yea, that was ambiguous or just horribly worded.
i will, i need this first , as i have 2 mins of lunch left
the.... the.... iframe... instead of ajax......
@deep How's that related? Do you eat websites?
12:44
its for demo purposes
@OctavianDamiean what?
dude, it's not even 9am here. you gotta warn people about this shit before you spring it on them... I mean fuck dude, I haven't even had my coffee yet.
@rlemon, Oops sorry!
Its 12:45 here and my lunch break ends in 20 seconds.
nevermind.
bye, have a nice day!
@rlemon Where are you in the world?
@rlemon And thanks for the examples by the way.
Canada
Ah right. I thought it would be USA or Canada.
12:49
@deep I'm just teasing about the col our scheme. I think we've all established it is not appealing to the masses.
@Tejas Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
@Loktar ^^
@rlemon Is that supposed to be a reference to that anchorwoman that cussed on live television?
they made the original authors a 'pick' now.
Because I read that with her voice
12:55
no, it's in reference to codepen being silly with their picks
they changed the way the forks are displayed, and it seems even their editors cannot figure it out and are 'picking' forks of originals over the originals.
hey thanks everyone for the suggestions regarding my first cpp game.
now i wanna update it so that it can be a played between a human and a computer,
also instead of making the player enter the row and column, i want the cursor to read the position.
for that i am using the 'gotoxy()' function.
so is there a need to find some relation between the coordinates specified in gotoxy() and the array coordinates?
or we can directly use the array coordinates for moving the cursor?
//but i am not getting it how to do.
given you're showing some borders between the cells, the cell [0][1] is not the second character on the screen

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