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4:00 PM
Java or Javascript?
 
jnode
sorry javascript
 
user1385191
s/Javascript/JavaScript/gi
 
check out socket.io
(that's the website address, socket.io)
 
@JamesPWright that page is created dYnamically after some btn click, I need to reload the UI because it won't show properly
 
4:00 PM
it should give you some good examples on what you want architecturally
 
@FlorianMargaine I petitioned for us, idk who the flagg happy folks were
 
ok :D I'll do :D thanks
 
Shalom all
 
whats going on in here? ^_^
 
user1385191
4:01 PM
> There Is No Javascript
 
@BeNdErR In your fiddle, did you mean "endSessionForm" to refer to the "endSessionPage" div you defined?
 
let me check
@JamesPWright nope, it's right :D i want to fill the endsessionform div
 
But that doesn't exist in your fiddle
 
<div id="endSessionPageContent" data-role="content">
<div data-role='fieldcontain' id="endSessionForm">

</div>
</div>
O_O i see it
 
user1385191
you probably don't want an id attribute with a value that long
 
4:05 PM
Yeah, your fiddle doesn't have the same html content as your question does
 
user1385191
id="IThinkThatThisIsTooLong"
 
user1385191
id="tryThis"
 
wait, I see now Bender
I was looking at it wrong
 
oh yes.. you're right about that
lol ok :)
 
@used2could Eff yea man! I owe you a beer.
Looks nice (on the page) :P
 
4:07 PM
because I'm a pedant: *benderR
ahuauhauaa
 
I guess I don't understand exactly what you are trying to do. After buildPage runs, do you want "End Session", "Save" and "Loading" to be gone?
also....HA!
 
nope, what i want is add to endSessionForm some <input> and <select>
 
that works in your fiddle though
 
.empty() is used to clear the div before filling it
nope, look at the <select>
it's stuck on 1 value
and if you watch the code inspector, there's an error
 
is that the functionality you want?
still throws errors, but the select works
 
4:10 PM
that is only an example to let you understand my problem, i've an issue in my main app,
 
user1385191
[vague question asked]
 
btw let me try replacing empty with html("")
 
user1385191
[code dumped]
 
brb
 
user1385191
[halp]
 
user1385191
4:10 PM
[smilie]
 
why does that not work
also the error is when including jqm
 
@rlemon Uncaught Error: Syntax error, unrecognized expression: :nth-child
 
yes
when including jQM
don't include that and you're fine
 
@JamesPWright nope, doesn't work :\
 
which means there is an issue with the HTML / attribute structure
 
4:13 PM
maybe the dom is not ready when the trigger is created?
 
user1385191
lol
 
user1385191
s/DOM is not ready/document tree has yet to be parsed/
 
I'm 98% positive you don't need that "trigger". append should cause the UI to refresh for you
 
user1385191
the DOM is an API; it's always "ready"
 
@JamesPWright i assure you that it doesn't work without..
 
user1385191
4:15 PM
chalk up another grievous marketing ploy to Resig et al.
 
and, the funny part is that the error is not thrown always
only sometimes
 
user1385191
…which is a massive code smell
 
@BeNdErR Then I suppose I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish if the fiddle that I (and rlemon) posted doesn't solve your problem.....:-]
 
and the trouble is related to the <select> part
maybe I explained it wrong :(
 
the "error" has nothing to do with the JS code you wrote
 
4:17 PM
well, the fiddle I posted makes the select work.
 
it's the HTML / attributes + jQM
 
user1385191
which means it's jQM's fault
 
user1385191
unsurprisingly
 
my fiddle was an example of what i'm trying to do, obviously in my app there's a more (or maybe not) complicated function (you can find it at the bottom of the post)
 
user1385191
yesterday, by Florian Margaine
and JQMobile sucks balls
 
4:19 PM
yes, jqm is giving me a lot of troubles
 
user1385191
so stop using it
 
i need to use it for work
 
user1385191
and use media queries and lightweight pages instead
 
user1385191
and what is forcing you to use it?
 
@BeNdErR You dont understand @MattMcDonald, he doesnt care if you need it, he just cares if he likes it
 
4:20 PM
I actually am starting a project using jqm as well, and really don't want to....but I have no idea how to replicate the page navigations and functionality like that
 
@Neal :D
 
@rlemon Np!
 
user1385191
@Neal I see that you're still as oblivious as ever
 
user1385191
when a JavaScript file is trying to parse HTML, you've got a big problem
 
user1385191
when a JavaScript file errs in parsing HTML, you've got a bigger problem
 
4:21 PM
@MattMcDonald got any suggestions for alternatives that give us cross-browser functionality/
 
Twitter Bootstrap
 
user1385191
what do you seek?
 
Mainly I'm looking for something that will work with PhoneGap and Backbone.js to give me native-looking UI elements cross platform (targetting iOS, Android and Blackberry)
 
53 secs ago, by rlemon
Twitter Bootstrap
 
user1385191
and why does a page need to look "native"?
 
4:23 PM
@JamesPWright do u know something to use instead of trigger to force the UI reload?
 
because it was required by my bosses
 
something to use on fieldcontain for example..
 
append should reload that section of the UI BeNdErR
 
user1385191
so tell them it's a dumb idea and will only lead to problems
 
I plan on it
 
4:23 PM
@MattMcDonald will try to convince you that your bosses are wrong and you should magically talk them into "the Matt Way"
 
at least as far as jqm goes
but I need alternatives
 
@JamesPWright +1 for BeNdErR
 
again:
 
which is, no lib, all raw, all browser, all the time
 
3 mins ago, by Neal
@BeNdErR You dont understand @MattMcDonald, he doesnt care if you need it, he just cares if he likes it
 
4:24 PM
heh
 
:-P
 
user1385191
if I can motivate spineless developers to use a better solution, then that's great
 
again, I'm seeing the flaws in JQM, but give me "a better solution" and I'll check it out
really I'm worried about my app looking the same across platforms and working the same
and I have about 10 total hours of CSS experience
 
Matt is a very smart man, with a very poor point of view when it comes to this. he is a "no library, but support all of the things" purist.
 
which is why I need some library
 
4:25 PM
jQM is crap, but libs in general are not.
 
user1385191
beware of men made of straw
 
yeah, that only works in a perfect world with perfect developers. I am far from perfect.
 
user1385191
there are good libraries
 
user1385191
but they are few and far between
 
examples plzkthx
 
4:25 PM
TWITTER BOOTSTRAP
 
even a simple CSS "library"
 
user1385191
 
for the 8th frikkin time
 
user1385191
I can't help you there
 
I looked into bootstrap and I didn't like it....but I don't remember why at this point....I'll look again
I'm mainly worried about the visual side of things
 
4:26 PM
@JamesPWright bootstrap is going to be the best out there (imo) which relys on very little JS (none if you choose to have no components)
 
jqm at least gave me that, cross platform
 
user1385191
unfortunately Bootstrap has a ton of hacky CSS
 
so does bootstrap
jQuery has a tonne of hacky JS
it works
which is what the production level sites need atm
 
I didn't think bootstrap was targetted at mobile applications?
 
yes it is now
bootstrap 2.*
> Cross Everything
 
4:27 PM
remember, I'm trying to build a Phonegap app (so it must look like a native app) not a mobile website
 
@JamesPWright LOL
now it works O_O
dunno why but it works..
 
@JamesPWright twitter bootstrap can look like anything you want it to
 
i think your .html("") made that work
 
seriously... take a few minutes to look at the LESS code and you'll see
 
+ remove trigger('create')
 
4:28 PM
Yeah, see that's the problem....if I want it to look like native mobile stuff, I have to write the CSS myself
 
they have given you the framework which is out of the box ready, but can be expanded / modified to suit any number of needs.
 
and I can't do that
 
@JamesPWright yes and no, i'm sure you can find a theme for it.
alternatively you make like 10-20 LESS changes and bootstrap make file and LESS does the rest.
 
I'll try to take a look.
does it mesh well with Backbone?
 
it's all CSS + classes (no funky data- unless you are using the components and want them to init like that)
so I don't see why not
and two sprite images
 
4:31 PM
See, here's an immediate problem. JQM handles removing "pages" when I navigate to another "page". It handles all that for me (including working with the Back button).
I have no clue how to do any of that. I'm about a 6 out of 10 on JS development
 
they use XHR
and if you enable 'cache' they just add more and more pages to the document
and if you lazy load them they just load them silently in the background
it's simple really.... jQM is crap considering it just another 'plugin' to jQuery
and not that well done either
 
can you point me to somewhere I can learn to write this kind of functionality? (as long as the link isn't to "letmegooglethatforyou.com"
 
I spent a few month ( almost a year ago mind you ) finaggling with jQM then decided to drop the M and just use jQuery + (at the time not bootstrap) a cross-css framework
@JamesPWright dude, google.
you want full page transitions via jquery + xhr
i would just be spitting out the first link I came too
 
@JamesPWright google.com/…
 
user1385191
4:34 PM
I'm boggled that "mobile" development seems to involve twice as much code as "desktop" development
 
time to inform the bosses of the change
 
sorry, after I skipped the ten jQM pages :P
@JamesPWright is your product ever going to be viewed from a desktop or at a larger resolution
 
@copy That link is nearly as good as letmegooglethatforyou.com
it is possible rlemon
but not an intention at the moment
 
@JamesPWright All those questions are already on stackoverflow. You just need to take some time to find them
 
then something like bootstrap is the way to go... media queries will allow you to expand on the HTML
 
4:35 PM
however, I'm trying to build it with Backbone in such a way that it would be simply swapping css files
 
requiring very little work to upgrade
 
user1385191
media queries are the way to go
 
@JamesPWright you don't need backbone... you need media queries
 
I have work to do! Not more to google! :P
 
user1385191
I have two media queries that allow my project site to look suitable in a glut of environments
 
4:36 PM
@JamesPWright look
"research" is work - priorities my man.
 
sadly I've got nearly 2 weeks of "research" in already...and that led me to JQM. :-\
Backbone is simply how I am structuring the app....it has nothing to do with how the App looks....so wouldn't I use media queries on top of that?
 
ok well, it's going to be a harsh reality check: You can't write a "mobile app" without knowing Javascript.
 
user1385191
sadly the best techniques are often hidden under layers of marketing and hype
 
user1385191
because only the loudest people in this industry get credence
 
I "know" Javascript. I've written lots of little things in it, just never a full app and have pretty much always relied on jQuery or other libraries to do things for me.
 
4:39 PM
so you don't know Javascript
you know enough to get you by in the jWorld
 
user1385191
the topic is the DOM API then
 
I know enough to write a full app, just never put it all together before
 
hi
 
@JamesPWright i'm not insulting you... i'm trying to slowly bring you to the epiphany that a little jQuery is not enough to do what you're trying to do.
if you want to know how jQM does page transitions you can always open the source.
 
No problem, what I said made it seem like "I only know jQuery" which isn't true. What I meant to say was "I've always let the more complicated things be done by libraries" whether that means jQuery, Backbone, threejs, zombiejs, nodejs, jade, etc etc
 
4:41 PM
but knowing how to write some simple XHR stuff or even use $.ajax + a transition is kinda a cake walk
nodejs is not a lib :P
 
framework, library, I use them interchangeably (and I know that's wrong)
 
nodejs is neither.
 
user1385191
the first epiphany is realizing that JavaScript and the DOM API are two very different pieces
 
I'm the only one allowed to be pedantic in here
 
nodejs is an event driven I/O server side lang
 
user1385191
4:43 PM
the second epiphany is realizing that the client-side environment consists mostly of external APIs
 
now you are wrong
 
but regardless.... what you want (if jQM is not working out) iis Bootstrap + jQuery + the knowledge of media queries
 
user1385191
node is an environment with APIs
 
nodejs isn't a language, it's a platform. :P
 
user1385191
it's still JavaScript
 
4:43 PM
yea yea
 
HA!
I'm looking into Bototstrap
or Bootstrap
 
user1385191
the third epiphany is realizing that the DOM API is actually a pretty great API hampered by implementation issues
 
aaaand now the boss is pushing for using Sencha
which he was pushing for before
 
user1385191
the fourth epiphany is realizing that most DOM "libraries" are nothing more than marketing tools meant to generate conference funds
 
user1385191
sencha is poison; avoid
 
4:47 PM
I agree, but my only real reason is "it smells bad" and that won't work with a non-programmer
 
user1385191
sencha touch, correct?
 
yep
he's the company president and he has "a buddy who owns a firm that is doing everything with Sencha"
 
user1385191
there's your evidence
 
user1385191
enjoy
 
4:49 PM
arguably, that post is from 2 years ago
alot changes in 2 years
 
user1385191
no
 
user1385191
crap code has been Sencha's hallmark for years
 
user1385191
you want to run away from anything using ExtJS
 
user1385191
very far away
 
I agree, but I have to be able to prove that to non-programmer bosses whose rich friends use these tools at their "firms"
either you have the perfect bosses.....or you don't have much experience working in the corporate world.....:-\
The major problem in not using a premade library like Sencha, JQM, KendoUI, etc. is that I have to be able to support iOS, Blackberry and Android across all their devices and I'm the sole developer on this "side project" with very little CSS experience.
 
user1385191
4:52 PM
"native web apps" are hazardous
 
user1385191
that's not opinion; that's fact
 
user1385191
they drain batteries with their bloated script
 
you mean using things like Phonegap?
 
user1385191
they barely work in most environments because of sloppy code
 
your argument is batteries?
then don't write sloppy code?
again, none of these are going to be valid arguments to "the bosses"
 
user1385191
4:53 PM
mobile environments warrant less script, not more
 
are you just talking to yourself at this point?
:P
 
user1385191
I hope not
 
well, like I said, every argument you give is not something that will matter at all to the people who make the decisions. I'm not lucky enough to work at a place where they always listen to what the developers say should happen. shrug
 
Raynos would say " then find another job "
 
user1385191
I'd inclined to say the same
 
4:59 PM
Tons of people would say that. I work from home for $20k more a year than my last job....so....no.
 
user1385191
and you're telling us that you work with ignorant fools
 
It sadly happens
 
not sure where you are from, but every single job I have ever worked at has ignorant fools and every single developer I have ever worked with has always worked at jobs with ignorant fools
 
Uncaught TypeError: Object [object HTMLDivElement] has no method 'getElementsByTagName'
the fuck?
 
user1385191
so it's our job as developers to educate ignorant fools
 
5:07 PM
yep....which is why I wanted reasons that would make sense to them....cause I can't turn them into developers (or give them a link that picks apart the code of Sencha line by line)
 
user1385191
I gave you a depot of ammunition
 
I will attempt to use it
fuck....apparently I really do have a good job
quote from the boss/owner: "I don't mind taking a more custom approach as long as it's well documented and maintainable when you move onto other projects."
 
maintanable ? so don't use ExtJS
Or others Sencha Products
 
I work from home, for more money than my last job. This is a little "side project" that he wants to try out, I'm picking the technologies myself, he specifically said "I understand if this is going to be a learning experience for you it might take longer" and now that
yeah, that's the point
he's saying: "Ok, you don't like Sencha. We will go with something more custom."
because I said so
so he's basically showing me that I might have that job I said didn't exist earlier.
 
user1385191
@JamesPWright :)
 
user1385191
5:17 PM
glad I could indirectly help
 
user1385191
if you do your homework, you will make a more maintainable solution
 
user1385191
that's what I try and encourage developers to do
 
but I hate homework
I want someone else to do all the work for me all the time
I just want the paycheck
:P
guess I'll move to management
 
5:44 PM
@Esailija VooDoo
 
whaatttt
a dev who hates homework?
 
selector engine written from scratch in 5 hours :P jsfiddle.net/LZ8tZ
I'm master time waster
 
@rlemon who cares ^^ I got to play LoL :p
 
@FlorianMargaine see fruits of the labour :D
 
@Esailija I see :p
I just starred :p
 
5:56 PM
it's still alpha 0.0000001
and probably will stay that way
 
faster than Sizzle?
 

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