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4:03 AM
One of my CSS-related opinions is that you can write good CSS without being a designer, and (often) designers don't write good CSS.
The design is unrelated to the quality of the code.
 
Most the 'designers' I know just make billboard websites with Dreamweaver.
 
4:24 AM
@RyanKinal true
in this country designers do not "slice" PSD files , in a company that i a job of the frontend guy
 
Heh, 2002 called they want their image slicer back.
 
I'm the frontend guy in my company. But the designer still writes most of the CSS - and his code makes me a little sad
 
I like looms way of doing method inheritance
If you override a method the first parameter becomes the old method
 
@JeffreySweeney what did you mean by this ?
 
@tereško whats a PSD ?
and whats "slicing"
I went to this web dev meetup a while back and they kept talking about PSD and I was liek wut
 
4:33 AM
Well, back when it was quicker to start loading several images at once, they'd slice images up for websites.
 
@Raynos It's the Photoshop file format
 
The web's (usually) quick enough that users won't notice a difference, and slicing images has become unnecessary. It uses more bandwidth, more requests, etc.
 
@JeffreySweeney then it has nothing to do with the subject we talked about
 
In my opinion, it has gone away with the table layout.
I thought that's what you were talking about a few messages up.. sorry to hijack.
 
Who should write HTML
me the web dev or the designer?
I think its the web dev's job to create semantic HTML based on the data
and designers business is graphic design and CSS
 
4:36 AM
Agreed.
 
designers cannot make CSS
 
... also agree :/
 
and it is exceptionally hard to write css for html which you did not write
 
@tereško it is?
I think the zen garden is a good exmaple of that not being the case
But I see your point
if I cant trust my designers to write semantic HTML then I cant trust them to write CSS
So does this mean I need a web designer to do the CSS?
or does this mean I need to learn design/css
 
Probably a little of both.
 
4:41 AM
You can design without CSS. In fact, it's probably better not to design with CSS.
 
why are you trying to shove "css" in same bag as "design" ? @Raynos
 
Design with Photoshop/GIMP/Aviary. Build with HTML/CSS.
 
You should design with css, it makes it a lot easier to fix things in the future. I learned that the hard way.
Well, sure, complex image wise, use photoshop. But a button's color or text position, stick with css.
And go easy on the position:abolute :P
 
@tereško because they overlap
I think of "design" as visual design. and CSS as being a tool to implement the design
for some reason I think a designer uses photoshop to draw what it should look like
then html/css to implement it
 
Right. The design is the concept. The CSS is the implementation.
 
4:44 AM
I mean the stlying and layout of a website is design
 
Pad of paper is quicker than opening photoshop :)
 
@Raynos , do you think people who design posters know how to print them ?
 
Should the developer implement the design?
 
@Raynos Ideally, yes
 
Ah ok
 
4:44 AM
The developer and designer should agree on a baseline at least.
 
thats not too bad then
I would still need to learn image -> CSS
 
Right :-)
 
yes
 
@tereško @RyanKinal so the developer can do HTML/CSS/JS and the designer can do the art
 
and designer still should learn what are the limitations of css
 
4:45 AM
@tereško and understand the web is a living document not an image, and understand that it has to be fluid dynamic and responsive
I guess thats what web designers are for, right :)
 
Unless you use Dreamweaver :P
 
@JeffreySweeney , please STFU , noone her with half-a-brain uses DreamWeaver
 
Exactly :-)
 
This is nice, because it means I dont have to consider trinity as tool that should be "easy to use for designers"
I kept thinking that its popular in business to have designers write html/css
 
no , it's a dream , which frontend devs see when they are really high
 
4:49 AM
Are you implying we want designers to double as developers
I think we do actually
 
Yeah... in practice, a lot of bad CSS gets written by people who aren't developers
 
You want design/frontend and frontend/backend hybrids
 
And then you have people like me (and @tereško?) who are design/frontend/backend
Although, admittedly, design is my weak point :-D
 
Well, like tereško said, a developer knows the limitations already.
...usually.
 
@Raynos , i think the "frontend javascript dev" fits the " frontend/backend hybrid" category ?
what we want are design/frontend, frontend/backend , backend/sql , sql/admin hybrids
because all the problems come from areas where two collide
 
4:53 AM
True dat
 
.. maybe in the next generation
 
@tereško I think backend = backend/sql
I dont seperate the database from the back end
 
with SQL i mean "database architects" , people who have extensively learned about it
 
but you do need a backend/admin hybrid
@tereško meh thats just part of the backend
thats like saying "HTML5 architect" or "AJAX architect"
 
Which brings us back to the front-end (HTML5)
 
4:55 AM
how many "backend devs" do you know , which actually have put an effort in learning about databases ?
 
@tereško one. I see your point
Do we need sql/admin architects?
I mean I dont see the collision point
I also think admins are replaced by cloud
I actively fight with running node on linux and managing it properly. We do need admins
I think we need a backend/sql/admin tribid :D
 
hehe
 
and a design/frontend/backend tribid
 
How bout just a couple of guys that know everything?
 
DBs are not so simple as you might think , if you have to create master-slave systems , you need both sides , same goes for managing servers configuration ... there are loads of tricks which DB architect MUST know about for making the whole thing faster
 
4:58 AM
@tereško I know databases are complex
 
and they are tied to the metal
 
I know I understand nothing of relational database theory and I know I understand nothing of why prefer db x over db y
@JeffreySweeney thats kind of what you want
 
Oh, WTF
-1
A: Class vs. ID - Readability

Ryan KinalIDs should not be used for styling. Use classes instead. IDs have a very high precedence, and are difficult to override (leading to more IDs, and longer selector chains). Also, IDs are used for JavaScript DOM selection, so if you're using the same IDs in your CSS that you're using in your JavaScr...

 
You want triplets of knowledge where you <excel, competent, understand>
 
gods below
 
5:00 AM
@Ryan Yeah, I've heard that before. It's a difficult transition at first :)
 
Man, I get downvoted with multiple valid references? That's balls.
 
Also, all lower case. They don't tell you that, but it can cause problems.
 
Personally I excel at frontend, competent at backend and understand design
 
@Raynos There's a problem with the design/frontend/backend guy though. Design is a completely different ballgame from any sort of development.
 
yes it is
 
5:02 AM
i excel at .. emm .. making food
yeah , thats about it
 
thats why when you excel in design you need to be competent in the front end and understand the back end
 
hehe
 
I guess you dont really need to understand the back end
Can we go back to a simpler model :(
 
Do your job, but understand what they're doing... hmm.
 
or fix something so I can put my circle into those squares
 
5:03 AM
@Raynos its all subjective
 
lol
 
@JeffreySweeney pretty much
This is what abstractions are for right?
So that you dont have to understand the entire chain
HTTP is there so you dont need to know shit about the backend
 
@Raynos did you mean this ?
 
Square peg in round hole?
Hits the hammer on the nail.
 
5:05 AM
@Raynos HTTP is a vertical abstraction. It takes one networking protocol, and abstracts it to another. Horizontal abstraction is tougher.
Actually, Horizontal abstraction is where you get things like ASP.NET :-(
 
This image is the best
what is the paint brush guy? What is he called?
 
I'm not sure what you mean
It's from This comic
Which is approximately my life
 
That is great
I can relate to it so much
 
Why do you think I'm chatting at 12:11 in the morning?
 
because you have no job
 
5:12 AM
...k
 
i think i hit a sour spot there
( if that was the correct expression )
 
<--- has a job
 
Actually, I'm trying to wrap my head around MySQL's GROUP BY function.
 
damn .. i suck at english
 
<--- still chatting at 12:13 in the morning
 
5:13 AM
heh
 
@tereško Actually, no, I think you were pretty spot-on with that one
 
looks like firefox is doing something strange
 
Why does !important exist? apart from "i hurd u liek hax"
 
why does <blink> exist ?
actually no , there is a good reason for !important , because it overrides inline styles
 
5:19 AM
I saw some code in a question recently that used an inline style with !important on it :-(
 
I see
@RyanKinal inline style with !important in it, is pretty funny :3 Especially if you do it in a popular library like jQuery UI
 
well , sure , but inline !important does not work
 
Oh :(
 
"True story": !important was originally a comment in Netscape's default stylesheet, informing other devs not to change it. Somebody took it as a new keyword, and implemented it in the browser.
 
5:24 AM
sounds plausible
 
I know, right?
 
.lt-ie9 {
  troll html5 boilerplate
}
It would be great to put in snippets of CSS in libraries
that use popular classes to troll them
 
Done reading. 'night people.
 
'night
 
RT @h4kr: gamepad.js for cross-thing Gamepad usage: https://plus.google.com/112070992379187515696/posts/4tAMa7pieeq #gamepad #dinputsucks #osxhidnotmuchbetter
 
6:10 AM
posted on December 07, 2011 by Vasilis

Bijeenkomst bij mediaCT op 8 december 2011 · Fronteers Tomorrow I will talk about responsive design in the beautiful city of Groningen (I visited Groningen many times but I never left sober; will tomorrow be the first time?). Bas Rozema will talk about the right setup of GIT and he’ll show us how to keep things manageable. As always, these meetings are free. fronteers, meetings 3D-g

 
6:56 AM
RT @whencaniuse: Opera 11.60 released w/radial gradients, ecmascript 5, more! Details at http://caniuse.com/feed/118 , comparison at http://t.c ...
 
7:41 AM
RT @afbarstow: New Draft of Indexed Database API published http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-IndexedDB-20111206/ ; 7 bugs open http://bit.ly/w3q6pT ; @EliotSeattle @Sick ...
 
7:59 AM
0
Q: Stopping Flash/Javascript Loaded Images/Videos in Firefox

LyndaI would like to stop flash and javascript loaded images from automatically loading in FF. How can I accomplish this with the use of add-ons? Please note disabling javascript by default is not an option as many pages will not work without JS enabled. Also I currently use Flashblock to stop flash ...

 
Any one know any library that can help me for cross-browser css rotation?
Something that abstracted this davidwalsh.name/css-transform-rotate
 
8:51 AM
need example where a==b will be true but a===b will be false
 
'1' == 1
 
thanks :)
got it
so actual type matters not just inferred type
 
 
1 hour later…
10:05 AM
Hello everyone, I have to input a script in a textarea via textarea.value. the problem is that this injection is a script too, so I have something like:
<script>
...
textarea.value = '<script>alert('hi');</script>';
...
</script>

the thing seems not to work, I assume because of the nested script tag. Do you know if there's a way to pass it as a string only?
I tried also with \< and \> but did not work.
 
10:17 AM
what ?
tell us what you want to do , instead of how
 
lol
ok :) I need to inject a script inside a textarea
the script is inside a file (script.js)
the injection is made by a script
 
10:39 AM
@BeNdErR Try escaping the /
Should work if you use <\/script>
 
like "\/"?
ok
leaving < and > as they are
or escaping them too?
 
It'd be better if you use their entities instead, but it should work nevertheless
< is &lt;
> is &gt;
 
I tried with &lt; and &gt; but id doesn't work
it's like the script is not runned anymore
 
Oh, it's in a textarea. The entities won't work in the textarea
 
btw I'm trying your suggestion right now, be right back :D
same error:
 
10:43 AM
Escaping it fixes it for me
What's the error?
 
where <script src="path">
it's in a variabile var src = '<script src="path"></script>';
and then assigned to the textarea.value
 
Escape the / there
 
already done
did not work
 
Update the fiddle I just linked to and make it look like your source
 
ok
@Amaan what I'm trying to do is to reproduce an example of xss attack that occurred some times ago
where the "hacker" injected his script inside every other user personal page
 
10:47 AM
And?
 
I was trying to explain my code
^^
the issue comes when I try to add in the textarea the script
(do you see the updated fiddle?)
 
Yeah
Hold on
Dude. JavaScript in the bottom left frame.
 
I don't get it
ah I had to put it in the bottom left frame ok
 
You see the 4 frames? Your HTML code goes in the top left frame. JavaScript in the bottom left frame. CSS in the top right frame.
Yeah
You're going to have to escape all of the /s in your injection variable
 
hmmmm
ok let me try
 
10:52 AM
Just use a regex
You should simplify your code
 
same problem :\ unterminated string literal
 
And what's with the randomly place \s
What line is the error on?
 
you mean \\\''+src'\\\' ?
unterminated string literal
[Interrompi per questo errore] var innerFrame= document.getElementByI...lue='<script src="attacker/inject.js">
seems like it's missing </script>' from var src
\\\' are used to display a single quote in the textarea
 
Okay, hold on.
 
thanks
 
10:56 AM
For the sake of this example, skip the iframes
Strip it down to just displaying the variable in the textarea
 
ok
 
@BeNdErR Your if never closes
(At least not in the code you gave me)
 
I forgot a } sorry
updated with the missing }
 

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