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user4639281
23:08
I thought shog was supposed to be handing out suspensions to users editing that post.
well, it was an either/or
After hairboats edit, there is finally a question in that post, which makes it remotely seem like something that could be a question on SO. But then, what good is a question that must be locked at all times so that nobody can ever answer there? Amazing.
...got a bowl of cereal to tide me over 'til the wife's ready for supper :-/
@TinyGiant That was sunday night, when folks were getting, uh, enthusiastic. Someone pinned that; I should unpin it.
user4639281
@Shog9 You mean the singular edit that was rolled back by a moderator? Seems very enthusiastic indeed
@TinyGiant go back and look at the context for that message.
user4639281
23:17
@Shog9 I was here when that message was posted
then you don't need to ask questions
@Shog Is Tim still going to post something like an official response? Sorry guys if you've discussed this already.
i thought he did
@MathiasMüller to...?
Rob
Rob
He posted (one of) the official responses here
user4639281
23:20
@Shog9 I just don't see how actually engaging in an edit war is less of an offense than expressing discontent with a single edit being rolled back.
@Shog9 "an official response will be coming from me tomorrow.". Thanks Rob, I did not see this answer linked anywhere.
@TinyGiant what?
user4639281
@Shog9 Sunday night a single edit was made and users were "excited" and expressing discontent over a single rollback, these users were threatened with being suspended from the site. Today users actually engaged in edit wars on the post, and not a word was said on the matter other than locking the post.
user4639281
@Shog9 Looks relatively tame in comparison to today to me
user4639281
23:33
If I'm going to be suspended for making an edit, I expect everyone else making edits to be suspended as well, all things equal and all.
@TinyGiant ^^^ @Jason made an edit; @meagar rolled it back. Then you made an edit, and @Sklivvz rolled it back. Then we had a long discussion here about the rationale for those edits and whether they were a good idea or not, and I made an edit (based mostly on @jpmc26's rationale).
user4639281
@Shog9 Two completely unrelated edits
user4639281
And I completely disagree that your edit even comes close to addressing what was discussed, yet that does not change the fact that users today did participate in edit wars, where no edit war existed when users were threatened with suspension
@TinyGiant that was the context for my message here.
That, and the really long discussion we had over them.
user4639281
I fail to see how that was worse than what happened today
23:36
@TinyGiant ok, so... What's your point?
We got multiple people keeping an eye on that post now
user4639281
If you're going to threaten to suspend people for engaging in edit wars, you better damn well suspend people when they engage in edit wars.
@TinyGiant no, I better damn well do what's necessary and no more.
user4639281
So I'm not allowed to do something, but everyone else can? That's fair
In my opinion, it's so utterly disappointing how SE employees are trying to reverse-engineer valid reasons for keeping Joel's post. I can't help it, but this reminds me so much of "alternative facts", it's striking.
7
@TinyGiant We got multiple people keeping an eye on that post now, not me trying to go to bed while debating whether I can trust the folks in this room to leave it alone and thus keep it open for answers.
@MathiasMüller are you talking about me? Because I'm right here, and you can address me directly.
user4639281
23:39
@Shog9 That doesn't change the fact that you stated that anyone engaging in an edit war would be suspended. Not anyone engaging in an edit war while you were sleeping, or any other criteria.
... what point are you trying to prove, or goal trying to reach... this seems pointless.
@Shog9 If you're really looking for answers, with the 60 current right now, a lot of those just saying "I agree / disagree with the post", it'd be better to nuke it completely and start afresh.
@Shog9 Actually, I did not find an answer posted by you - no, I don't mean you. I was referring to answers posted by Tim, Jon and hairboat.
"If I wake up and find y'all arguing in comments again or getting into edit wars ..."
So yeah, we're done discussing this, because I told you at the outset to read the message in context and it turns out you didn't even read the message.
@MathiasMüller oh, on this? Thanks, that's useful context.
user4639281
Ok, so by that logic I can go wreaking havoc and no one is going to do anything, just like nothing was done in this case?
23:44
@TinyGiant just drop it
I haven't responded there because... Honestly, I don't have a strong opinion just now about what should be done with the post.
user4639281
@Undo How's about we drop the whole post and start repairing the damage done to the community by the post?
2
I have a lot of practical concerns with putting it on the blog, and I really don't think anyone would be happier if it was on MSE, but "this is the least problematic place" isn't a particularly compelling argument.
@Shog9 Fair enough, I can respect that
(referring to "I haven't responded because...")
right
@MathiasMüller BTW, one big HUGE advantage of chat over comments is that you can do direct replies (AKA threading) - makes that sort of clarification unnecessary :)
23:48
New answers are completely buried under a pile of things solely based on the post, and not what it tries to discuss. My old Firefox couldn't even load the page.
BTW, if anyone here isn't using this...
59
Q: SE Chat Modifications -- Keyboard navigation and commands for chat

Tim Stone Screenshot Use /command shortcuts to perform common chat tasks: See message history inline: Easily preview replied-to messages: And much, much more... About Legends tell of a prolific Meta Stack Overflow chatter who despised using their mouse above all things. In an effort to keep t...

...you probably want to be using that.
@Shog9 I just realized, sorry - not used to chat really
@MathiasMüller no worries, today you learned something cool!
@Tunaki Yeah, it's pretty crazy - we haven't had a big insane meta post like this in a while. A lot of that is the comments not the answers; answers are paginated, but comments aren't.
user4639281
Yet again someone with a diamond beside their name single-handedly invalidated five user's close votes.
@Shog9 Aren't comments not loaded when there are a lot of them? I see more "show x comments" than usual on long posts like those.
23:54
Saw a comment that really nailed something important, I think:
Right, as an Dutch citizen who does not oppose Trump's decree (but does think it should have been executed with more care), I feel like I'm being treated as a second-class human. The USA is always great and brings freedom and regime change around the world, but when a new president is elected and the elite doesn't like it apparently the world is too small. His (Joel's) post only enrages me to the point where I have to ask myself how far I have been radicalized over the recent years. Joel's elitist attitude is simply dangerous. — Stephan Bijzitter 2 hours ago
At least, I see them appearing faster in the thread, and not already 10 comments deep.
@Tunaki Pretty sure large numbers of answers cause the system to show fewer comments per post, yeah
Not sure
The irony is Joel tries to appeal to our morals by talking about how SE is a "global community", but fails to acknowledge how inappropriate a US-centric policy post is in said global community, especially when non-US policy discussions would likely never fly here.
@Tunaki on meta, the default # of comments displayed per post is 15 (vs. 5 on main). That disappears once the question passes 30 answers, BUT up to 15 are still displayed if they have one or more votes...
...and a LOT of comments here have votes.
Which means two things:
1) extra server load finding those comments (this is pretty fast, but AFAIK it runs on every request!)
2) just a ton of extra markup to transfer and render
It was also sort of interesting to me how much the "this post doesn't belong here" comment/answer upvote rates increased during active hours in non-US timezones.
23:59
@JasonC This is a problem, and not the first time it's come up. Keep in mind, lots of non-US employees too - so, kinda feels not so great when they're dealing with something at home and it gets no attention, while US stuff does.
I brought this up a few months back...
16
Q: How can we make the voter "call to action" ads more universal?

Shog9You may not have noticed it, but there's a new set of ads running on SO (and maybe other sites) right now: I guess we got approached by some voter registration org about running these, and it seemed like a good idea... So we're running them. They appear for folks who we think are in the USA, a...


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