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12:09 AM
My "mute" button is labeled "delete".
 
hehe
 
I'm quite curious, @Scratte, in what countries the original message would be considered "rude". I can kind of follow the "unkind" logic. It's always unkind and unwelcoming to tell someone they are not longer allowed to do something. No one likes to be told "no". But rude? I just cannot follow that.
 
I think there's an element of "lost in translation" going on. The phrase "no longer welcome" may translate badly in some languages, as in "You're not welcome" == "Go away" (but in stronger or more expletive terms).
 
@CodyGray I don't want to be too specific, but in the east. Places were everyone is always welcome. The notion that someone is not welcome is just not part of the culture. Unless they really deserve to be excluded.
 
But, playing Devil's Advocate here, the whole point is that they are "excluded!"
 
12:17 AM
@CodyGray What @AdrianMole said :)
Well.. yes, and no. Because making mistakes doesn't really make you unwelcome there. It would take something deliberate.
However you may be "unwelcome" because they don't like you. They'd never directly say it though. Because: That would be rude :)
 
Simply put, is there actually a 'nice' way to tell someone their contribution to a particular aspect of the site is considered detrimental?
 
@Scratte Yes. It absolutely does mean "go away from the review queues". It does mean that you are excluded. In the judgment of the moderator team, the person really does deserve to be excluded from reviewing. That is the only circumstance in which we would use that message.
 
@AdrianMole your revoked is better in my opinion.
 
@AdrianMole There is no Devil's Advocate position in this type of situation. Cultural differences of the masses are not something that can be argued away. You can only try to understand them; accept them; and accommodate them, or choose not to. [Note: you can argue that the other person's understanding of the culture is inaccurate, but not that the culture is "wrong".]
 
The message we're talking about is the review ban of last resort. It isn't used for normal review bans, when you've made a mistake. For those, we cite a specific example of what the mistake is. This is only used when you've repeatedly made mistakes, repeatedly been banned, and yet show no sign of improving. It's for when we've lost all confidence in your ability to review or your ability to improve, and we're permanently rescinding your review privileges.
 
12:23 AM
@CodyGray I'm not arguing that they should be welcome when they're not. I'm just saying that there's a different way to get the same message across that I think would be better.
 
So, "your review privileges have been revoked" is going to be felt, in a meaningful way, as less rude than "you are no longer welcome to use the review queues"?
 
But, let's face it, as Cody has just said, this is a message of last resort. Hopefully, it doesn't need to be used very often.
Mountains and Mole-Hills, maybe? (Moles, I know about!)
 
I have to be honest, this kind of stuff (perception across cultures) is interesting to me, even though I nevertheless tend to think it's also absurd and irrational.
 
@CodyGray Adding the last "welcome to contribute in other ways" I'd say so. There might be a Stack Exchange site for language or culture or something like that :) We could ask them.
 
@Scratte Oh. Yeah, sure, I can see how that would definitely help. That's throwing someone a bone at the end. But... I don't want to throw that bone.
 
12:29 AM
@CodyGray It is sometimes extremely frustrating with the cultural differences. Especially in places where people will rather give you false direction than say "I'm sorry. I do not know"
 
I have no idea if they're welcome to contribute in other ways. I haven't reviewed all of their other contributions. The odds are fairly high that if you're making such random, harmful decisions in review that we're perma-banning you from review, you also not contributing stellar content to the site in other ways, so I really don't want to make it sound like the person is doing fine everywhere else.
 
@CodyGray Ahh. Good point. They may not be welcome at all :D
 
At the same time, their other contributions might be fine. So the message very intentionally doesn't mention other forms of contributions, and doesn't indicate whether the person is welcome to keep doing those things or not. It focuses strictly on their actions in review, which is what the moderator(s) assigning the ban were..um...reviewing. :-)
Your message suffers from a problem I call "over-communicating".
You're going out of your way to be nice, and you end up saying something that may not even be true.
You would have been better off to just focus and be clear about what the actual situation is, because, as you mentioned a few lines above, giving someone false direction is annoying and unkind in its own way.
 
All good points, Cody. But, please bear in mind that us 'mere mortals' don't always understand the subtler aspects of being a moderator. But it's nice that you (and others) at least listen to our suggestions.
 
@CodyGray I didn't think that they might not be welcome to do anything at all and extending the bone may even be false.
 
12:34 AM
@AdrianMole Oh, absolutely. I'm always willing to listen to constructive suggestions, and I always try to keep an open mind about the possibility that I/we might be wrong. This sort of discussion is even interesting to me.
 
Talking about "lost in translation" ... the phrase "extending the bone" is rather dubious in Glaswegian culture!!
 
heh
In American English, too.
"throwing a bone" isn't so much, but even when I used it, I recognized it was an idiom that other non-native speakers may not recognize.
 
I'm sure it wasn't lost on translation here :)
As far as I understand the message has only been given to 18 users.
 
... then, perhaps, Much Ado About Nothing?
 
@Scratte That number strikes me as too low... Perhaps 18 users currently see the message?
Even then, seems low.
 
12:40 AM
Where did you get that number from, @Scratte?
 
I'm trying to find the source :)
 
@Dharman Woo interesting
 
@Machavity Yeah
 
Worth noting that mods can only issue review suspensions of up to 365 days. So, while we consider these to be perma-bans, they do expire, and sometimes we miss renewing them...
 
12:46 AM
@Scratte I actually remember that post from the other day - but, unlike for you, the actual numbers dissolved in my brain.
 
@CodyGray Seems like that could be fixed with some type of computer program, at least as a reminder or something :D
 
Post-It notes: My boss swears by them!
 
Computer programs: My boss swears at them!
4
Yeah, Sam has really been on top of review bans lately, with the aid of a user script. The built-in tooling is not great. And I don't know about others, but I don't really want to add reminders to my calendar to go check on every user who has an expiring review ban...
 
So maybe some of the ones that should be banned, isn't.
 
1:05 AM
The socvr.org site seems to keep timing out
Any one else experimenting the same issue?
 
@U10-Forward Yes.
 
Unreachable you mean? Yes.
 
1:24 AM
I've let the appropriate plants know
 
@Machavity Is there more than one plant?
 
Yup .... quite a few
 
SOCVR.org is down for me too. I had to search up the chat room's name in chat.SO.
 
@S.S.Anne - hmmmm. The [zabbix] tag is kind of confusing; it doesn't tell us it's purpose in life at Stack Overflow , and is bound to entice questions like the above with the blurb it has.
 
Is that a question or a statement?
 
1:38 AM
Heh. It's a statement.
There
 
thx
 
Do you know why it's here?
 
'cause someone created it?
in '08?
 
Hmm, yeah, looks like a cleanup is needed on aisle . Don’t have time at the moment.
 
Anyone know if this is NAA?
Just scrollin' through the questions as she comes.
I saw two links and some text that just seemed to restate what was already in the question.
(I also separated those two messages because I thought the "Just scrollin' ..." one was funny)
 
1:57 AM
oops, forgot the u isn't allowed here.
Let's see, where's Charcoal HQ...
 
@S.S.Anne Yes.
 
Anyone know why this isn't NAA?
 
2:12 AM
@Scratte Because you can edit it into a real answer like I did.
Why was this deleted? It seems to be a valid answer and another answer just popped up also suggesting Lua.
 
@S.S.Anne Thank you :)
 
3:01 AM
Finally serial voting on me was reversed
Got +14 for doing noting
 
 
2 hours later…
@U10-Forward yes.
 
6:38 AM
Hooray! "Spam" was used properly as a mass noun!
 
 
2 hours later…
8:35 AM
 
9:11 AM
@IslamElshobokshy Question have your answer. Don't post CV request when you direct involved with question. It's room rule violation.
socvr.org is down or it's only for me?
 
down for me as well
checking
 
8 hours ago, by U10-Forward
The https://socvr.org/ site seems to keep timing out
I noticed that 8 hours ago already
 
@U10-Forward better ping an RO as well ... ;)
 
@rene Machavity saw my message
 
Hmm, it is not the domain name, that got automatically renewed till 2021
And the Azure dashboard is helpful: No health related issues found.
 
9:29 AM
@Shree I retracted my vote when he gave more information on the question. I wasn't able to delete the question in here. So just ignore it lol
 
@IslamElshobokshy Naa you ping any active RO and request to bin that CV request.
 
@Shree sure I'll keep it in mind, thanks for the heads up then!
 
np :)
 
9:53 AM
@Shree it is back for now /cc @U10-Forward but I have to investigate why it took an enormous hit in both trafic, cpu and disk IO.
 
10:03 AM
Thanks for look.
 
Works now!
Thanks @rene
 
10:42 AM
\o
Morning
 
o/
Evening
 
11:04 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
1:00 PM
 
Morning
 
o/
 
1:28 PM
@CodyGray just saw your message. FYI I have been renewing users with review permabans from a year ago
review moderation is severely lacking :/
for every 200 daily manual review bans I hand out, I imagine 800 others get away scot free
 
1:49 PM
I propose we review ban all users and then un-ban those that seem sane ...
2
 
@rene that will likely be the wrong choice. Partly crazy may be what you're actually aiming for.
 
@Scratte He's Dutch. They live below sea level. Sanity isn't their strong suit anyways
 
Are there any specific actions to take when you come across self-vandalism?
 
@SecretAgentMan roll back. If you see they've done it on multiple posts, mod flag
 
@NathanOliver Got it. Thanks.
 
1:57 PM
np
 
2:32 PM
 
I'm doing maintenance on socvr.org. If it dies after this, we're screwed ...
 
So if your review of the server fails, the website will be closed?
 
@Machavity yes, and deleted.
Okay, the input prompt returned. It might have reported errors but nothing fatal it seems
 
 
1 hour later…
3:48 PM
 
4:05 PM
wow, the hospital system I work for is prepping to roll out Win 10 v1909 already
bold move
 
I thought hospitals still use Windows XP
 
nah that's just in the TV shows
most are running Vista, 7, or 8 (or some combo)
 
Is this identical repost (see comments therein) worthy of a mod flag?
 
@AdrianMole according to comments, it's spam, so it should be flagged as spam instead (if that comment is correct)
 
Nah, first time just close as a dupe. If they keep doing it then mod flag
 
4:08 PM
@AdrianMole Definitely, unless there is clear evidence of spam then it should be flagged as spam.
 
Somebody has actually just mod-flagged it.
 
Any evidence of avoidance of question ban should be flagged
 
Oh, different OP's. That makes it more complicated. Mod flag, ban evasion.
 
@AdrianMole Given that it's a duplicate from a different account, then, yes, it should be custom mod-flagged. If it was from the same account, then just close as duplicate, unless they do it multiple times.
 
If it is the same user posting the same question because the old one was closed then just close and downvote. They will get question ban on the third question.
 
4:10 PM
@Dharman I haven't read through the whole thing, but scanning through it, it didn't appear to be actual spam, but I could've easily missed something.
 
Yeah, it looks to be just a massive homework dump
 
@Makyen Same here. I was just referring to the comment
 
It's not, of itself, spam, but a totally inappropriate question. I've seen it twice, today; someone has commented that there's a third copy around, so ...
 
M--
Both threads are now deleted by author(s?).
 
So best leave it to the Diamond Geezers, now!
 
4:14 PM
https://stackoverflow.com/review/triage/25504241
Getting review ban again. Whats the logic of that using 'requires editing' even if he/she put images on question
 
@OrhanSolak I'm not sure I understand your question
 
I mean, except from me, another 2 guys reviewed this question as 'requires editing'
But I got banned with these sentence 'Your review on triage/25504241 wasn't helpful.'
 
@OrhanSolak requires edit should only be chosen is someone from the site who is not the OP can fix the question. If only the OP can fix the question, then mark it as unsalvagable.
 
It sounds like the moderator manually suspended you (and likely the other two reviewers)
 
Okaay, I see. Thnx a lot :)
 
4:17 PM
@OrhanSolak Please read meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/389148/… for more info on Triage and bans; if you read it, understand it, and comment on it, there's a chance the moderator may lift your ban early.
 
In this case editing picture content in is reserved for the OP so it should have been closed (marked unsalvageable, not requires editing)
 
No problem, I can wait 7 days. Maybe I should learn to use 'skip' on reviews :)
 
Definitely ^ I skip quite a bit
 
0% risk
 
Skipping isn't giving up, it's simply letting it be handled by someone who is hopefully more equipped to do so
 
4:21 PM
I agree
 
FWIW, 95% of the time requires editing is the wrong choice.
 
M--
@NathanOliver data to support that? :D
 
Look in the H&I queue ;)
 
M--
flat earth believers: go ahead and look at the earth from above, LOL
 
Can't. There is a magic dome at 40,000 feet to stop us flying away
 
M--
4:25 PM
I believe in magic, that I can give you
 
Relevant comic. Too many dependencies.
8
 
4:39 PM
SE has posted an updated to the licensing debacle on MSE. TL;DR: They are moving to a split licensing model and old content will reverted back to CC BY-SA 3.0
10
 
\o/
(unpinning the strike stuff as it's two weeks old now)
 
it unpins after 2 weeks anyway
 
I agree with that. Looks like they really are putting actions to their words.
 
Anyone who knows what the confetti is. More precisely is it something to worry about?
 
@Scratte looks like a basic particle effect for well.... confetti, why?
 
4:44 PM
@Scratte fixed
 
I just came across that one in review. I was thinking of at least editing the code block so that it would be legible.
 
@Nick Thanks. I just thought it looked very out of place. I have no idea what confetti is, btw :)
 
@Scratte its lots of little pieces of coloured paper/dry flowers etc., a party thing
 
@TylerH So the "confetti" block was just a load of unnecessary gloop?
 
Now.. it's just a bad answer :( It's identical to someones better answer.
 
4:47 PM
How can it be worse if it's identical? :thinking:
 
@Scratte this is confetti
 
@AdrianMole probably due to the character limit...
 
A reasonable assumption!
 
@Nick I like where this conversation is going. I know what regular confetti is. I thought it was something special in programming. Sort of like Java isn't really coffee :D
 
despite my best efforts I sometimes make sense
 
4:49 PM
@JohnDvorak It's like scotch. A 12 year old bottle is worse then a 15 year old bottle. A new same answers is worse then an old same answer ;)
3
 
@Scratte Haha no, they did actually mean that kind of confetti
 
@JohnDvorak It's a one liner. I was added much later, so it's basically a copy. Other than that, good point, I think :)
 
@AndrasDeak lol
morning all
 
evening
 
dbc
I just noticed 4 questions tagged (notice the dashes). There are 133 questions tagged (with dots instead of dashes). Can I just fix those 4 questions or do I have to do something else, like post on Meta? I did suggest a synonym.
 
4:55 PM
@dbc 4 questions is small enough you can do it unilaterally.
 
dbc
Done.
 
U haz POWER ;)
 
dbc
I know, but the question is, when should I use it unilaterally?
 
I can't recall if there is a firm number but I like to use 20-30 questions. That's small enough that it doesn't ware you out, and it doesn't "flood" the main page with a bunch of tag edits. If they ever make tag only edits not update main then I would say the limit could be higher
 
M--
Can I ask a question about a Meta post (what is considered NAA there?) or it will fall under moderating meta?
 
5:05 PM
@M-- I wouldn't. Gets to close to the line for me. I can ask the other RO's and get back to you if you would like.
 
M--
@NathanOliver nah, not that important. If you had time, take a look at my comment(s) below one of the answers here meta.stackexchange.com/questions/344491/… and give your personal feedback. I don't wanna make a fuss :D
 
@dbc it is described in the opening paragraphs on the Burnination Process answer when you are allowed to remove a tag on your own and when the formal process is needed.
 
dbc
@rene OK, does posting here and getting an agreement from somebody with 20,000+ rep count as having conferred with at least one other trusted community member?
 
works for me
 
M--
does this violate "Be Nice" policy? "if you want to band together 5 users to delete my post you can"
 
5:22 PM
Why?
 
Doesn't look like it
 
@M-- I'd say it's terse and there's some tension implied, but it doesn't cross the line to rude
 
M--
I just didn't like "band together" part. I figured I'd ask since I am at the edge of my seat these past couple of days :D and didn't want to bring emotions into play (๑•﹏•)
 
I'm wondering how you would phrase that
 
Now if they imply SOCVR is a band, that's rude. We don't play music since the squirrel opera incident
3
 
5:27 PM
lol
 
I think they're referring to rubber-banding - that is, the dynamic increase in difficulty to match the player experience.
Our quality standards constantly ebb and flow to cover exactly 50 * n_members / 3 new questions per day
 
What's the squirrel opera incident?
 
@dbc yes, we are considered sane but any on-topic chatroom might work. So if you have a tag that is wrong in the context of C# you could also confer with someone in that room.
 
@Scratte It's very much like the noodle incident
 
5:32 PM
@Scratte let's just say it involved a lot of instant noodles
 
@Scratte It's kinda like this, but with more squirrels, and opera
Jon Clements went nuts trying to catch them all
 
I know you're just messing with me, but I can't help myself: What's the noodle incident?
 
5:51 PM
@Machavity words fail me =}
 
@JohnDvorak Thanks. Never heard of it before :)
 
6:31 PM
@M-- Where does it say that? Was it some angry user?
 
M--
@Dharman It was on meta. I won't say angry, but a tat impatient at my comments. Could be a misunderstanding as well. It's been resolved since.
impatient "at"? :/ cc: @CodyGray
 
@AdrianMole Yep
 
6:57 PM
@M-- This looks objectively answerable, not an off-site resource request
 
@JohnDvorak I voted to close as a typo. I added a comment for why.
 
But... there's no language tag
 
was that a reply to me?
 
M--
@Machavity Thanks. Should it stay open tho? What about an MRE?
 
@M-- Looks like a question about how to use a programming tool. I think it's on-topic as-is. Mind you it's not a great question, but 22k views means it's getting traffic
And besides, MongoDB is web scale, although I pipe all my data to /dev/null
4
 
7:22 PM
@M-- While definitely not a request for off-site resource, I did fee it was debugging without providing an MCVE. It very explicitly says "I followed the steps exactly as shown in the video." At an absolute minimum, the actual steps they followed need to be in the question. Without those steps, we're left guessing as to why they are getting the error "'mongo' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file."
While we know the immediate reason why that occurs (the system/shell didn't find an executable file with that name in the path, the actual root cause (e.g. is the program actually installed; did they install it to the "normal" location; is it the install directory in the path; does it have the executable bit set; do they need to rehash; etc.) is something we have to guess at, along with things like: "what OS are they using?"
 
7:49 PM
 
8:34 PM
Dumb Question: Is there a reason why I don't see any indication that a question is "Protected?" Here's an example. When I access it "logged off," I see the blue banner (used to be at the top, but it's moved to the bottom) saying it's "Highly Protected." But when I'm logged on, that banner is gone. Is it because of one of my recently acquired privileges?
 
@AdrianMole I still see a banner. Mine says: Highly active question. You have enough reputation to answer or unprotect this question.
 
@AdrianMole In a private window the blue banner is at the bottom where the answer button normally is. When I'm logged it, it's at the top
 
I'm getting lots of "an unknown error has occurred" on my posts here, now!
 
@AdrianMole You are above 10 and below 15000 reputation so you do not see it
 
@AdrianMole That's natures way of telling you it's time to go outside ;)
 
8:39 PM
@NathanOliver Yeah, "Highly Active" is what I meant.
@Dharman When you say 10, I assume you mean 10K? (That's the threshold, I think, when the banner vanished.) But I don't get the point of it. I know 15k gives me options to Protect/Unprotect, but I could post an answer even at 1K.
 
It would be really cool if SO let us set an "effective rep" for thew site so we can see what it looks like at different rep levels. Having 25K+ means I miss all this fun :(
 
@AdrianMole No I mean 10 reputation points. This is the requirement to answer Highly active questions
 
When I'm logged in I don't see it at all..
 
@NathanOliver You can create puppet accounts
 
Hmm. I guess SO feels you don't need to know it's protected since there is nothing you can do about it.
 
8:42 PM
@Scratte OK, so that's a new feature/bug then! (I have certainly seen that banner since I crossed the 10 rep threshold.)
 
@Dharman True. But I don't want to spend the time to make a 5K sock
 
@AdrianMole Well.. @Dharman explains that you don't see it when you're logged in if you're between 10 and 15000 rep.
 
It's been like this since the new post notices were introduced. You do not need to see this notice if there is nothing you can do about it.
 
I really didn't see the reason to rename it "highly active" instead of "protected". Such questions aren't necessarily "highly active". sigh [Yes, I know that changing back this has been requested and marked declined.]
 
So that would have been a few months ago, perhaps?
 
8:44 PM
Yes, you can search for it on Meta.
 
@NathanOliver Wanna swap? :D
 
I tried on Meta SO, but perhaps I'll try the main Meta.
 
Well, what was displayed fluctuated a bit as they dialed in what was being displayed, but eventually settled on where it is now.
 
@Makyen I was indeed puzzled by "Highly active question". It has 273 views.
 
8:50 PM
That particular Q was protected just after a "Me Too" NAN was deleted; possibly to stop more of the same?
 
Does anyone know a current meta post for flag bans? I was trying this, but I think it must be out of date, since I can't recall seeing any of those warnings.
 
@AdrianMole Yeah. The system will automatically protect a q that gets 3 deleted low rep answers.
 
@Scratte The images in that answer look substantially like what I've seen when I've gotten a declined flag and attempted to flag another post.
 
@Makyen Maybe I haven't had enough declined flags then. Or I'm just blind to warnings :D
 
@Scratte IIRC the message looks at flag datetime, not flag-handled datetime
So if you flag a post for something, and then you flag two more posts for something and they get handled as helpful, then the original post flag you raised gets declined, you won't see the red warning label, because your most recent flags were helpful
 
9:03 PM
@Scratte Seeing those banners is going to depend on opening the flag dialog within 7 days of the prior flag being declined. So, if you don't flag very often and don't open the flag dialog withing 7 days of the flag being declined, then it won't be displayed.
 
Also what Makyen says -- there's a 7-day moving window that calculates when you might see the message as well (something like more than 25% of flags made for more than 10 flags over the last 7 days or something complicated like that)
 
@TylerH Hmmm.... I'm not sure about that. At least for the actual automatic ban it's based on the time the flag was handled, not when it was raised (or at least that's what's said on Meta).
 
Ahh.. ok. So it my flag history is better than the 10% threshold and my most recent flag was fine, then I'll never see the warning.
 
@Makyen Well, I think I've had multiple situations where I had a declined flag but didn't see the message because I swooped in w/ some comment flags or something that got auto-helpful'ed due to the regex
could be misremembering though
 
@Makyen I think @TylerH may be right. Yesterday I flagged two posts for NAA. The first was declined, the other wasn't. I didn't get the warning.
 
9:07 PM
@Scratte well there is a minimum requirement for # of flags cast, I think. It has to be more than 25 of at least 10 flags in the last 7 days
(or something like that)
if you cast fewer than 10 flags over any given 7 day period, in this example, you will never see the warning
I used to know it by heart but that was like 2 years ago
 
@TylerH I'm not under that. I'm Skipping Late Answers :D
 
@Scratte The Natty chat room is a good place to find some 'safe' NAA posts (high score in the list) that you can use to boost your helpful:declined flag ratio.
 
@Makyen @TylerH Thank you :) I'll be reading the post more thoroughly
@AdrianMole That feel like cheating. I never flag a post when Natty's already been over it.
 
Natty can only give one flag - He/It/She needs our help to 'finish them off'.
... otherwise 'some hapless mod' has to deal with the hanging flags.
 
Hapless mods have to deal with the flags anyway, unless enough folks vote to delete the answers.
 
9:16 PM
@AdrianMole Huh? What do you mean? How many users flagging NAA on a post will prevent a moderator from having to look at it?
 
Really, Cody? I though that enough NAA flags would do the job - every day's a schollday, here.
 
Hapless is, by the way, the default state for a moderator. Let someone know if you find one who is not hapless.
Nah. Vote to delete or recommend deletion in LQP will, though.
And NAA flags put posts there (I think)
But there’s never anything wrong with “piling on” NAA or VLQ flags. The more flags the merrier.
 
So, just adding to flags to what Natty finds is, as @Scratte says, just adding burdens on the hapless few?
 
But that only applied to those with delete vote privileges. So multiple NAA's will not make a difference.
 
More flags don’t represent a burden. They don’t have to be reviewed individually :-) And note flags on a post means a higher weight/priority, which tends to make it even easier to handle (requiring only a cursory review)
 
9:20 PM
OK, so it's not 'cheating' and I can carry on doing so, when the Spirit takes me!
 
@Scratte Sorta. Even folks without delete vote privileges can recommend deletion when reviewing in LQP. Enough “recommend” deletion votes will count as a real delete vote. This has almost nothing to do with NAA flags, which is what we were talking about, but I can’t pass up the opportunity to be pedantic.
 
Ah.. but.. that implies that a lot of user individually came to the conclusion that a post was NAA, not sitting in a chat-room flagging stuff that Natty found. What if Natty made a mistake?
 
That's why we have humans second-guessing each of the bot's moves
 
@Scratte Yeah, you’re liable for your own flags. Don’t just blindly trust Natty, or you’ll be scruffy.
 
I'd rather be scratty anyway
 
9:23 PM
Sometimes I even third-guess!
 
Generally, if Natty gives a score of 4 or more, it's a safe bet that NAA, VLQ or Spam will be appropriate (but I never just accept that - always read the post). I think raising a flag also feeds back to Natty, so that the score can be raised for others - but I'm not sure about that.
 
I don’t see how your raising a flag could feed back to Natty
You’d have to give Natty “true positive” feedback or something.
 
@CodyGray Please don't say that. You represent the confidence to be aspired by small people who make mistakes. Nobody like an earthquake..
 
OK, like I said, wasn't sure.
Case in point: Natty has this one with a score of 5.5, but I wouldn't raise NAA on it. (Code-only answer are still answers, according to some schools of thought.)
 
@AdrianMole Do you know the threshold at which Natty flags a post? I've seen the puppy comment on posts.
 
9:31 PM
I think it's a regex on key phrases, but there'll be others with far more knowledge than I have better suited to give you a meaningful answer.
 
@Scratte If I’m your role model for not making mistakes… uhhh… you might need to re-evaluate your life choices.
@AdrianMole Yes, they are still answers, as long as the code is actually somewhat relevant to the question. However, code-only answers generally aren’t good answers, so may need other attention (like clicking arrow buttons).
 
@AdrianMole Nah.. I was just slightly curious. It's not important. I'm more likely to use the room to find old posts Natty found to see what survives.
 
Cody, if you're encouraging me to down-vote bad answers ... hmm ... I only really do that if I'm confident that they will be deleted pronto, 'cos I'm too 'tight' with my hard-earned rep. :)
 
Stuff some moderator declined a flag on under this misguided thought process that it is an attempt to answer some question, even if it’s entirely unrelated to the question… grumble, grumble
 
@CodyGray The problem with the arrow choice is when there are more posts that requires such an action than there is positive attention on ones posts. Even by a 10th. It would be a little odd for users to drop in rep because they actively review :)
 
9:37 PM
@AdrianMole Sigh.
But! Muh magik Internet repz! They might go down!
 
But, if it's in the over-arching interest of the Community, maybe I can mend my ways.
 
Then you won’t be able to trade them in for a… <fill in the blank>. (Go ahead, I’ll wait while you fill in that blank.)
 
< the ability to see blue banners on protected questions > hehe
 
Everybody can see those
It’s a sea of blue now
 
We just had this discussion (scroll up a couple of screens) Only those <10 rep or >15K can see them, these days.
 
9:41 PM
Everyone can see the banners, but only certain subsets of users can see certain/all information on the banners
 
@AdrianMole and anonymous users too.. :)
 
Ugh, really? We’re hiding the banners altogether now?
 
@CodyGray I don't see the protected banner at all, when I'm logged in, so yes.
 
That’s crazy. Is there no way for you to see that a question is protected? I suppose you can see it in the revision history.
 
I used to see, "You have sufficient rep to answer..." but now, the message (according to Nathan) is "You have sufficient rep to answer and unprotect ..."
 
9:44 PM
@CodyGray But.. even if I review enough, I can't drop more than 600 rep before I'm not allowed to review anymore.. :) I guess I'd just have to randomly find useless post then :D
 
Hah. Except they’re not even called protected questions anymore, so it should say “You have sufficient rep to answer and make this question no longer highly active.”
 
The argument was that there's no point in me be able to see that it's protected, because it makes no difference to me.
 
@CodyGray I can open the post in a different browser, so I'm not logged in.
 
@Scratte No, unacceptable. You should be able to see all relevant information without hacks or multiple accounts.
 
"unmark this question as highly active"
/me hates the change to "highly active" BTW
 
9:47 PM
Yeah, it’s nonsensical and confusing. Plenty of protected questions are not highly active, and plenty of highly active questions are not protected.
 
@CodyGray But, is the fact that the question is protected all that relevant to someone with 15k > rep > 10? Other than getting another user to act on it, there really isn't anything which affects them.
 
It's not even applied automagically anymore, IIUC?
 
Yes, it is auto-applied. In fact, it was auto-applied to the question that started this discussion.
 
@CodyGray Yes. If I look at the timeline, then I can see it marked protected. But everyone can do that. The question is does anyone do that prior to answering a question?
 
Users with intermediate rep may still want to know the status, in case a <10rep user wants to ask.
 
9:51 PM
@Makyen There are probably a hundred things displayed in the UI that aren’t immediately actionable. But they’re still an accurate and potentially relevant fact about the post’s status, so they should be shown.
 
@JohnDvorak True, but they can get that info from both the revision history and timeline pages, which are both linked form the question page.
Waffles™
 
They may not think to look there
 
I never look there. Timeline view is too noisy. I only ever use it to see mod-only info when I need it.
 
and it doesn't really make much sense to look for the current state in the edit history or timeline IMO
 
That, too. And, perhaps most importantly, UI changes should be kept to a minimum, even as rep level changes.
Minus one or two extra links, what I see as a mod is essentially the same as what any logged-in user sees. And that’s as it should be. It makes it possible for me to understand and appreciate what others see.
 
9:54 PM
Including that ginormous neon yellow thing that's only visible to 1-repers. $.02
 
@JohnDvorak Huh?
 
"Ohai. I see you want us to answer your homework. Would you like to get a job instead, or perhaps buy a private copy of this network for your company?"
 
@CodyGray While I, personally, would want to see it, the wording that was being used in the new post notices was confusing. IMO, there was more harm/confusion in showing it to everyone with rep > 10, even though they could answer, than there was benefit in showing it to everyone.
I feel that it would have been possible to appropriately word the post notice such that it wasn't confusing, but if they were unwilling to wordsmith it to something that wasn't confusing, I'd rather see it not displayed for those users who can answer, but can't change the protected status.
 
It’s not that hard, Makyen. “This post is protected to reduce spam answers. However, you have enough reputation to answer it.”
Tweak as desired, but that’s the essence.
Hiding a UI element because “uh-oh, we might have to write some text, and we might write it wrong!” is...ridiculous.
 
Wasn't protection also to prevent 'chatty' comments? Or is that something else again?
 
9:59 PM
Protection does nothing to comments, IIRC
 
@CodyGray I agree it's not that hard. However, SE appeared to feel that it was, with a few different versions of that notice being used while the new post notices were being dialed in.
 
No, protection has no effect on comments. Users who can comment already can answer protected questions.
 
OK, it's getting too close to midnight for my brain to function efficiently.
 
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