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1:00 AM
Not sure what this answer is. Not sure about the comment either.
 
@Scratte NAA. It's a random block of JSON
 
@Machavity Thanks. It looked like such, but I'm far from comfortable with .json.
 
2:05 AM
@rene yes those buttons are experimental and only cast normal CVs for now
 
 
3 hours later…
6:55 AM
@SamuelLiew Okay, I used them, they work, except for that one keyboard issue I reported on GitHub.
 
7:46 AM
Oof I got serial downvoted, -14 reputation.
 
Congrats!
 
@rene Wut, why?
 
Means your moderation is noted. You're famous now.
5
 
Haha lol!
 
And you will be added to the Hall of Serialness
Where you will join TylerH, Halfer to name a few ...
 
7:52 AM
If the system detects the serial downvotes, is it reverted immediately?
 
@Machavity Good luck in the election on Space Exploration.
3
 
@Makyen Any idea when the SO Mod election happens?
 
there is no election planned for SO at the moment
 
@SamuelLiew Wow
@rene I got serial voting on MSE before
 
8:07 AM
@Scratte No, there's a script that runs once a day (early morning UTC), which reverts the serial votes it detects. If you believe you're the target of serial voting, you should wait more than 24 hours to see if it's automatically reverted. If it isn't, then raise a custom moderator flag. The moderator that handles the flag will look into it, although they can't see who actually voted. If it looks like there might be something going on, the moderator will forward the issue to an SE employee.
If you do raise a custom mod-flag for serial voting, it may take a considerable amount of time to resolve, depending on how busy everyone involved is.
 
@Makyen Ok. Thank you :) I was wondering if low-traffic Questions could be Roomba'ed after such an incident. That's would be shame.
 
@Scratte Technically, yes, they could be, if the question met all the other requirements for Roomba without including the serial votes. Other requirements and timing may result in such deletion being delayed for anywhere up to a week.
 
@Makyen Ok. Thank you :) I was contemplating asking a Question that I can't answer myself. I'm not optimistic that anyone else can either, so it's hardly worth the time to ask it if there's a risk Roomba will take it.
 
@Scratte Ahh... that doesn't sound like a good reason not to ask. If it's not downvoted or closed, then it will be on the site for at least 365 days. Even if it's not voted on, it's relatively easy to make a question not eligible for the Roomba.
 
8:33 AM
@Makyen I'm pretty sure it would not be closed :) Don't know about votes, that seems to be an emotional thing. I am however sure that it will get very little attention :D
 
8:58 AM
 
9:34 AM
Is this sort of thing spam/rude? stackoverflow.com/posts/60485849/revisions
I used to flag this kind of nonsense but got declined a few times so I stopped and started VTCing instead
it's not advertising anything, nor is it profane, but it should be deleted ASAP
 
@CertainPerformance It kind of looks like it's a prompt that some other account is meant to post spam as an answer to. Or maybe that will be edited into spam after initially slipping through as harmless. It isn't quite spam yet, but could well become it.
I'd probably flag it as spam, but obviously it does risk being rejected
In this case it looks like it has been flagged
 
 
1 hour later…
11:27 AM
@IslamElshobokshy IMO, That question is not unclear. It's simply a bad question, but it doesn't lack details. Only forethought.
 
@yivi yeah fine :P
 
12:01 PM
Ooh, got a serial downvoter on my tail today. Must be doing my editing/closing properly :=)
6
\o
 
12:37 PM
just let us know if the votes are not reversed in 24h
 
my last serial downvoter was bad enough that I could track their downvote count and see the rollbacks
 
12:54 PM
@SamuelLiew Thanks Samuel, will do
 
1:11 PM
Morning
 
afternoon
 
night
 
@U10-Forward I think they're trying to start slowly with places hard hit. Space.SE had a fairly active mod resign and quit SE entirely. SO had more resignations, but a smaller percentage overall.
 
at least we still have active mods and the flag queue is under control here
 
@Makyen Yeah, I figured I'd take a shot (the person I thought would win dropped out minutes before voting started)
 
1:19 PM
Currently, there are 1142 banned reviewers on SO, out of which:
- 1007 (88.2%) users are banned for Triage reviews in one way or another
- 838 (73.4%) users are banned for selecting "Requires Editing" in Triage when the question was unsalvagable
- 112 (9.8%) users are automatically banned for failing multiple review audits
- 289 (25.3%) users are banned for the first time
- 317 (27.8%) users have at least five review bans
- 84 (7.4%) users have a duration of at least 100 days, of which 18 users are perma-banned
 
"197 (17.3%) users are banned within the past 24h" - huh?
are most of them banned because of mod-flags?
 
review ban started some time in the past 24 hours
no
 
are these automated?
 
Are the Triage bans being assigned or is that from audit fails
 
most of them are manual bans by me
for (selecting "Requires Editing" in Triage when the question was unsalvagable)
 
1:22 PM
Good stuff
 
@SamuelLiew is one case enough to impose a review ban to a (low-rep) user?
 
I know this has been suggested on Meta, a lot, but maybe "Requires Editing" should be rephrased...
 
yes, but as long as my linked post was read and commented on, I will lift the suspension. This doesn't happen in 99.9% of cases.
 
Buuuuuut, maybe I'm just opening a really old can of worms.
@SamuelLiew Fair enough!
 
1:27 PM
@SamuelLiew For given reasons.
Good links to have on hand.
 
2:02 PM
@SmokeDetector is that Shog's "Official doc request", or a "We're not customer support, whatever Google says"
 
@Adriaan Yeah, voted to close with a custom reason
 
2:20 PM
is this NAA?
 
@double-beep I'd say no, it appears to be saying "This is where your problem is, there's no solution" - Which is an answer.... even if a bad one
 
@Nick isn't it "I haven't found any solution"?
 
It's still an answer. It's not another question, or spam, or some rant about losing one's wallet. =)
 
@double-beep I was paraphrasing, it's still an attempt to answer
 
I agree with @Nick It's an isolation of the problem, which is part of an answer. It's 10% answer :)
 
2:25 PM
BEFORE the edit was made, it was borderline NAA. Would probably have fared better as a comment.
Moderation is so subjective. =D
 
What do I do with answer that has "I had the same problem/issue..blah blah.. <proposed solution>"? And "<proposed solution>. This worked for me"? Or "... Hope it helps"? I always skip them because I don't feel that it's relevant at all. Should I just leave it be if it's otherwise an answer or should it be edited out?
And.. what if it's an audit and the system thinks the post is fine because it was previously marked as "No actions needed"?
 
@double-beep You're saying: Just keep skipping them?
 
@Scratte the userscript skips the (poor) review audits.
 
@double-beep Fair enough. I don't mind the audits. I skip so much that every 3rd review is an audit.
 
2:37 PM
I came within about an inch of a head-on collision with a UPS delivery truck this morning on my way to work. Happy Monday!
 
@Scratte As long as an answer actually provides an answer, it shouldn't be reviewed as "Unsalvageable". An argument for "Requires Editing" could be made in some cases, but many times they don't require editing. "Skip" or "Looks OK" are your only options in a lot of cases. In the wild, you'd just downvote the answer for being not useful (if you thought it wasn't). But in the very-limited Triage queue, there's not much you can do but skip.
 
@TylerH I'm happy you and your head made it.
 
@TylerH Happy Monday!
 
@Scratte Not so sure about all the packages in the UPS truck... after it came to a screeching halt (that would've been far too late had I not braked in time)
 
So what you're saying is that it was a head-off collision?
 
2:38 PM
@Das_Geek I don't Triage. I only do Late Answers
 
hope none of them were particularly fragile
 
@Scratte Fair enough. Though a similar logic can apply there as well
 
@Das_Geek How? There's an option for edit in those.
 
@Scratte Sure, and you can downvote
I said similar, not same
 
@TylerH Maybe someone is not getting their tech intact. But it's better than you loosing your head.
 
2:41 PM
@Scratte I quite agree
Ironically I am expecting a tech package from Newegg via UPS, but not til Wednesday I don't think
 
@Das_Geek So I shouldn't just edit it out? Down voting is fine? The answer may be really nice sometimes, but then the poster spoils it with "Hi everyone" or "Hope this is helpful" and I just can't make myself press "No actions needed"
 
Rather frustrating that they stopped offering delivery w/ FedEx, as there's a Walgreens w/ 24/7 FedEx package delivery like 3 minutes from my house, and it's also between my house and my workplace
 
@Scratte Depends. If editing will make it a more useful answer, then edit. If edits only removes a bit of noise on a trash post, then downvote
 
@Das_Geek That actually helps a lot :) Then I just need to check that's it's not an audit before pressing edit on a good post.
@TylerH Lots of tech is packaged so well that they handle more beatings then humans can.
 
@Scratte Glad to help. I will echo the recommendation for ReviewQueueHelper. It saves a lot of useless drudgery when in the queues
 
2:48 PM
@Das_Geek I looked at it, but it seems like cheating
 
FYI, it's made by a mod
 
^ :%s/mof/mod/
 
I noticed. I didn't say it was. Just as it seems like it. To me. I want to learn everything :)
 
@Scratte I've learnt enough - I have been banned automatically and wrongly 5 times.
 
@Scratte Normally I'd agree. But as it currently stands, the audit system is an ineffective method of teaching anything but the most basic of review skills, and sometimes not even then. Just scroll though MSO and you'll see plenty of cases of bad audits
 
2:52 PM
@double-beep We differ then. I've been banned manually and rightfully once :D
 
if you start reviewing LA, then you'll be banned more times
 
@Das_Geek I agree. That's why I ask a million questions all the time :/
@double-beep Oh. Manual or automatic?
 
automatic
there's too much crap there
 
@double-beep That requires failed audits, doesn't it?
 
and 'No Action Needed' is (almost) always the wrong option
 
 
2 hours later…
M--
Is there any value in keeping this stackoverflow.com/questions/190561/… ?
I flagged couple of the answers as NAA and got this feedback: "declined - The question is off-topic, please vote to close and delete the question instead of flagging the individual answer"
 
@M-- not in my opinion; very low quality/effort question, answers aren't great either, and haven't been maintained
 
@M-- Nope. Voted to delete
 
M--
OK, I was about to post del-pls; no need now. Thank you.
 
@U10-Forward @halfer FYI. We all got downvoted by the same person. Was there a question we have closed together? Did anyone else got the downvotes from that same user today?
 
4:51 PM
@M-- Ooh, a mod deleted. Gone for good
 
M--
@Machavity a mod closed
 
Oh, so it was. Still not used to the new blue box deletions
 
5:16 PM
@Dharman Note that it's impossible for us to know for certain whether a user downvoted us (or especially others) -- even if they admit it, there's a chance they could be lying. Aside from that, while on the other side of the coin from normal discussions, that topic is still a discussion that targets a particular user (the alleged downvoter, in this case). Thus, I would recommend not discussing it further in this room per rules 19 & 20.
If you feel you were targeted unfairly per site rules, and the downvotes aren't reversed after a day, flag one of the posts for a moderator to take a look at, as always :-)
 
5:38 PM
ok, I will cease and desist. :D
 
6:16 PM
Sometimes I wonder why some think that applying a bounty negates site rules? stackoverflow.com/questions/60387997/…
 
@double-beep FWIW, the user here doesn't like the closure. Doesn't look like I'll be able to convince them but figured you should know in case they make a bigger deal out of it.
 
@M-- I removed the "Question:" bit from the question. It was redundant.
 
M--
@Dharman right. but wanted to stay a bit loyal to what OP had (leave some sort of emphasis on the question part). I have no objection to your edit tho.
 
It takes majority of the body, there's no need to emphasise it more.
 
6:31 PM
 
M--
sure. Again, I was explaining my train of thoughts leading to that edit, not arguing that we should roll back or anything. Your argument beats the hell out of mine :D
 
@PearlySpencer It looks to me like the code is in the question, but I do not know the Stata syntax.
FWIW I am not arguing. I have simply a very blunt way of speaking. I was just giving an advice.
 
M--
@Dharman I know, no worries. I was just kidding around ;) Thanks for the advice
 
When I explain my train of thoughts I always derail ...
 
 
1 hour later…
M--
8:08 PM
@rene LOL
 
@Nkosi technically, it does negate some -- you can't close-vote a question that has an active bounty, unfortunately
I feel like they should probably remove that restriction, though.
 
M--
@M-- is it spam?
 
@M-- I would say probably not. Plenty of users provide links to their own site as a way to show other's what's wrong, or even to provide an example of what they want to mimic. In this case, while the site may or may not be theirs, it doesn't appear to be promotional and they are probably asking a genuine question.
 
@M-- hard to say unless there's more context available from Smokey already about that site
OP is from the same town in Latvia as the website's host location as well, according to a reverse whois
 
This is the first time Smokey has seen that site
 
8:21 PM
so could well be their own (real) site/a site they're trying to emulate
 
@M-- I don't think it's spam, it's just to overcome their difficulty to ask a good question
 
@Dharman A blunt way of speaking, eh? I’ve never heard of such a thing. Sounds like a terrible affliction. (Also: “advice” is a non-countable noun, so you can’t have “an advice”. It’s just “advice”, or “some advice”. You can make it countable by referring to “a piece of advice”.)
 
huh, turns out the only countable meaning is a programming term
 
Advice is a programming term? In what ecosystem?
 
> 6. (countable, programming) In aspect-oriented programming, the code whose execution is triggered when a join point is reached.
 
8:32 PM
@CodyGray "Thanks in advice"
 
trunks in aardvarks
 
Wow, I have never heard of “aspect-oriented programming”.
 
Each source code file should end with "Thanks in advance!" or "Hope it helps!"
 
Sadly, I have heard of “thanks in advice”.
Oh, my favorite is the line at the top of all source code files just delivered by a subcontractor: // No known bugs
Well, gee.
 
the industry is in a decline if that needs to be added
 
8:40 PM
I concluded it was better than // Many known bugs
But...not by much.
 
// use at own risk
 
The actual pathetic part is that after a simple code review, I filed almost 100 bugs. So, the fact that they were not known to the development team is altogether unreassuring. Curiously, in several cases, they were known to the compiler...which complained in the form of a warning.
 
@CodyGray reminds me of this: xkcd.com/2268
If only everyone would use -pedantic -Werror when compiling.
 
I’d settle for -Wall -Wextra
(Isn’t it standardized as -Wpedantic now? Pedantry requires that it be so.)
 
9:01 PM
Why are you giving me that link when I’ve already looked everywhere and couldn’t find the solution? You must provide me with a solution that cannot be found anywhere.
And thus does not exist. Huzzah! Good luck with that challenge!
 
9:16 PM
I dunno about y’all, but I think that orange color in the HTML syntax highlighting looks bomb!
 
@CodyGray I read dumb instead of bomb
 
10:11 PM
@Scratte post-1997. Contemporary urban vernacular. Because I’m so gangsta.
@Dharman Nah fam! You don't like bright, fun colors in your syntax highlighting?
 
@CodyGray I suspect you're trying to teach me English.. at least I don't have to turn actual paper pages to find the meaning of "vernacular" :)
 
@Scratte No... this is just how I talk.
 
definitely been a total Monday all day. Rounded out the day with checking out a coworkers code to see how he did a sql lookup. He said he only used cascading lookups based on previously selected data, but I couldn't figure out he was showing this conditional field. Turns out he lied and has a hidden list on the page loaded up at runtime that he compares a substring to. Cool, dude -_- could've saved me a good half hour of reading through your code if you had mentioned that...
 
Oh boy, string comparison. Sounds like someone needs to go back to basics.
@TylerH D'ya think that would be appropriate for Code Review? I'm considering migrating it there, because it seems like a reasonable and well-asked question.
 
10:33 PM
I don't know Python so I don't know if it meets their requirements
cc @JonClements might know
 
It's mostly about whether there's complete, working code being provided. I don't know that either, but it does look like it.
 
I agree that it does look like it; AFAIK in Python, import lines go at the very beginning
 
About my earlier question regarding editing answers. I don't want to "No actions needed" on this. I'd like to edit out the struggle and put it in a real code block. Else.. I feel I have to Skip it.
 
@Scratte what queue is this in?
 
@TylerH Late Answers
@TylerH I'm not asking anyone to do the edit. I'm just asking if it's the right approach, knowing I'll be adding two more people to the handling of the post.
 
10:38 PM
I'm pretty sure "edit" is an acceptable option in review, @Scratte. What's the question/concern?
 
I don't do a ton of Late Answers reviews but it looks like an edit to fix the code block would be appropriate
otherwise I'm not sure what the concern is
 
I agree that the only thing that answer needs is editing. It is a valid attempt to answer the question, so you should not be flagging or voting to delete it in a review queue.
 
My concern is that my edit will not take effect until it's been through the suggested edits.
@CodyGray Thanks. I wouldn't have flagged it anyway. I'm only divided between edit and skip.
 
@Scratte So? Why is that a problem?
You would naturally want to skip if you were (A) unsure how to edit it, or (B) unsure that your edit would be able to fix all the problems with the post.
I don't see how either of those apply here. It sounds like you know exactly how it should be edited. So why would you want to skip? (Not trying to discourage you or anyone from using skip. It's never the wrong choice. But just trying to understand.)
 
perhaps he's concerned that others would see the post in late answer queue after him and see it still in the pre-edited form, and not be able to know/see a pending edit was taking place? Again, I'm not really familiar with the Late Answers queue so I don't know how it would display that
 
10:44 PM
I don't know either. Good sense says that either it would be suspended from Late Answers until the Suggested Edit was reviewed, or that there would be some indication in Late Answers that a Suggested Edit was pending.
This is also not something that an individual reviewer should be concerned about. It is not necessary to reverse engineer the review queues' implementation in order to use them correctly. If you fail by doing a reasonable thing, then that's a UI bug and it needs to be addressed by staff.
 
@CodyGray Probably because I think it's unreasonable to put such a small edit through another queue. And what @TylerH said :) But.. I'm not actually sure that there's a requirement for consensus on Late Answers. I think anything but Skip makes it leave the queue.
 
I think the concern is academic either way. If it stays in the queue with a pending edit, so be it. You did the right thing based on what you have the privilege level to do.
 
It's done now. Thank you both :)
 
Formatting code properly so that it is readable, especially when that's the only thing wrong with the post, is not a small edit. That's exactly what suggested edits are for.
Also, what @TylerH said.
 
I removed the struggle too. Not sure about the formatting other than it didn't look right outside a proper code block
@CodyGray Thanks. That actually works much better.
 
11:03 PM
Hi y'all! Coming in half-way through a conversation here but ... I think pending edits don't remove posts from queues. When I see an "edit (1)" on a post in review, I generally skip it - on the argument that it's best to let that edit pan out, before further assessment. (I've tried clicking that "edit (1)" link, but then I end up in the Suggested Edits queue, after I've approved/rejected/improved/whatever that edit, which actually annoys me.)
 
@AdrianMole Any chance you saw one today in Late Answers? :)
 
I can't say for sure about the Late Answers queue, but I'm pretty sure I have skipped some reviews today with such "edit (1)" indicators. But I'm not sure how to find reviews that I've skipped! (There's probably a way, but it's on my list of things to learn "when I grow up!")
 
There is a checkbox on the bottom of the page for inclusion of skipped reviews.
 
No offense, @AdrianMole, but you’re not the interesting case. :-) You have full edit privileges, and thus the ability to approve suggested edits, so it’s no surprise that you see “edit (1)”, just like I would. The more interesting question is, what about reviewers who don’t have 3k+ and thus edit approval privileges. Do they see the review item in LA/FP/LQP if it has a pending edit?
 
You'd need to try much harder than that to cause offence! But, yeah, I get your point.
@Scratte Thanks - I knew it was there, somewhere!
@Cody BTW, It's 2K, IIRC.
 
11:15 PM
@Scratte Unfortunately, because someone, who clicked "No Action Needed", completed the Late Answer review prior to you editing and clicking on "I'm Done", we don't know if your suggested edit then "I'm Done" definitely would have completed the Late Answer review. However, I'd be surprised if it didn't complete the review. Late Answers and Firs Posts only require a single user to act.
Other than knowing that you took an action and enabling the "I'm Done" button (or passing/failing an audit), I don't believe that those queues keep track of what action was actually taken. So, for that review queue, I'd expect a suggested edit to be handled the same as an edit by someone with full edit privileges (other than that it gets kicked to the suggested edits queue).
 
@CodyGray You have a point. Except, today I see @AdrianMole actually was in the queue while we were busy with my edit. So if @AdrianMole saw the post, then it most certainly did not exit the queue.
 
@AdrianMole I'd say "challenge accepted", but I don't want to be accused of being "unwelcoming".
@AdrianMole It is. I confused it with the close vote privilege. I try to do this from memory, and my memory isn't really that good.
 
hehe - You're many things, but never unwelcoming
 
Sources suggest you don't know me very well...
 
... but there was that Meta SO post about the "review ban" message recently (but we don't discuss Meta, here, do we?)
 
11:18 PM
Right. I didn't write that message, though, so don't look at me. It was originally composed by Brad Larson, I think, who is pretty much above any accusations of being snarky or rude that might be reasonably leveled at me.
I don't know, I just do what seems reasonable until a RO shows up and spanks my hand.
Pretty sure the rule is that we don't moderate Meta. And, of course, we try not to jump into dumpster fires, because that's not productive.
(Well, I moderate Meta. But you know what I meant.)
 
@AdrianMole We can discuss some aspects. The point is that we don't moderate meta.
 
@Makyen I see that sometimes. I don't rush the review, so it gets both mine and someone else's judgement. I think you're right that it just leaves the queue except for Skipping :)
 
No problem, at all! I was going to suggest an 'alternative' for the (presumably) canned message, but I think the question went down the pan (it was around -12 when I last saw it). Something along the lines of, "... thus, after careful consideration, we have decided to revoke your Review Queue privileges."
 
See this comment of mine, which I won't one-box here. That phrasing sounds reasonable to me, too. But do you really think that it is in any way better than the current wording? Or just different?
 
@AdrianMole I like that. It's much better. The thing is that it depends a lot on culture, and in some cultures "not welcome" is just plain rude.
 
11:24 PM
I'm not saying it's better. The problem seemed to stem from the use of the phrase, "not welcome," which is very non-new-SO-CoC, I guess?
 
Hmm yeah, the message was drafted and used long before "welcoming" became a de facto meme in SO culture.
Perhaps that alone is good reason to change it.
 
Aah - the Good Ole Days!
... when I was just a mere lurker/Googler.
 
When spearrels ran free
 
@AdrianMole Why don't you answer it with the new and better phrasing? :)
 
@Scratte - I can't find the question - my guess is that it's been deleted.
 
11:28 PM
I linked to it above.
Heavily downvoted questions don't show up on the home page (on the theory that they are not "interesting"), but you can still find them from the /questions page.
 
OK, Cody. I'll have a wee think. Not sure it's that important, though.
 
Me neither! :-)
 
@AdrianMole You have my support if you do give it a go :)
 
And I'm reluctant to 'mess with monkeys'.
 
You'll have my downvote support, too
Klappe zu, Affe tot!
 
11:35 PM
Aber ich bin ein Inselaffe.
 
Suggestion: After careful consideration of your poor review history, multiple review bans as well as no signs of improvement, we have decided to revoke your Review Queue privileges. You are welcome to contribute to the site in other ways.
I'm not sure that's correct grammatically, though.
 
@Scratte That does sound nice - but the conversation on that Meta post seems to have moved on to deeper stuff, and I really don't want to stir it up any more. In the words of Mr McCartney, "Let it be!"
 
@AdrianMole Yes, there seems to be a consensus that there's nothing wrong with the message. I don't agree though. I've lived in places where that message would be considered rude and unkind. But.. I also get the feeling that adding an answer isn't going to attract positive attention.
 
@Scratte Yep! Even on Meta, it's sometimes best to "go mute!"
But @Cody would probably disagree, or there'd be little left to moderate. :P
 

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