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16:00
@NullPointer compute work days first...
@Ocramius take one month .. (i am only developer)
multiply per hourly wage and add one month of buffer :P
@Ocramius and what would be per hour ?
Is it complicated or just a simple listing?
@webarto really complicated ... for me
16:03
@NullPointer can't help on that... it depends on how much you value your work... 40~60 brutto I'd say
(eur)
no one gonna pay that much here ... :(
aaaaand that's why I said "depends" :)
thinking to say about 2k$ .... :(
@NullPointer $3-4000 would be my guess, you're not going to work all the time on it. Also that's one sale of real estate to payoff for the website.
Gah just went out the back of work because I heard an alarm - someone knocked/pushed my bike over :'(
16:07
@webarto sounds good ... gonna say 3200$ see if that work or ..just let that customer go ..
@Jimbo CCTV?
@NullPointer Should work if they have brain. Also, depends on the market, can they get same quality for less money, etc.
@webarto None, and two businessmen (one outside one inside) said neither of them saw anything, "mustve been the wind"
Any damage?
And it's a 600cc, angled toward any wind, in a 10ft high walled corner.. a storm couldn't blow that over
It had to have been pushed / knocked by a car
@webarto its the real problem some are telling that they get website for 200$ .. but they are not telling that it will be static
16:10
:(
Yeah, about150 quids worth
0
Q: Get Element at N position in an Array without Loop

BabaHow get you get element key and value of an at the n position array at a particular position without loop. Imagine $postion = 3; // get array at 3rd position $array = array( "A" => "Four", "B" => "twp", "C" => "three", "D" => "Four", "E" =>...

@NullPointer if they ask for less, there's real-estate stuff that already works but is totally crap
@NullPointer you can suggest that, but that's low-quality products you're giving out with your name
@NullPointer Where I am they sell sites for $100, etc. Wordpress, Joomla, plugins, what not...
@webarto so low? O_O
@NullPointer visual.ly/…
16:12
@Ocramius Everyone can install WP, right?
@webarto yeah, but I thought slovenia wasn't so cheap :\
@Gordon true very true rather average is less .. that why either we have to open own company or go outside of india
@NullPointer any ideas ?
@Ocramius No, they've always robbed us from "lower" countries :P Bosnia (or here and there and everywhere)
@Gordon that graph is BS (sorry for the rudeness)... Italy has not even half that salary avg compared to DE
16:13
@webarto any clue ?
@Baba sorry no idea .
@webarto isnt it tooooo low ?
@NullPointer ok ...
@Ocramius i only checked german and swiss salaries and they seemed roughly okay
@Baba I'm dumb for that stuff :) I bet @deceze or @DaveRandom know a trick or two.
@Gordon gotcha
16:14
@Ocramius give or take 5k
Is this gross salary or net salary? (displayed)
haha, yeeeeeeah... wanna :P
@webarto lol .... i think you are more than capable just a bit distracted that is all
@webarto its gross
@NullPointer so that means -40% ?
16:15
@Baba $array[array_keys($array)[$position]] in 5.4 with array deref
@webarto depends where you live ;)
@Baba Maybe :) See.
in costa rica some people made websites for 200usd
@webarto lol
a senior php dev make 2.5k-3.5k
/month
16:16
@Baba You just have to ping the right person :P
@DaveRandom hummmmm .. Interesting approach
@RommelCastro they do that in germany, too. they just dont do that for long because they will starve over their keyboards eventually
@webarto yupp .... but here are many people have lots of black money ..
@Gordon I find it hard to imagine that USA : DE is 100 : 40 ... tell me that's not true?
16:17
@webarto have always know @DaveRandom to be a bug Guy .. see :: stackoverflow.com/questions/12781795/get-headers-inconsistency he was the only one who knew the answer
@webarto yeah, the salary for the US seem way too much. whenever I check jobs abroad they are less than german wages
@Baba Yes, he is a master of WTF.
@webarto lol
anyone worked out of home country ?
@Gordon Yes, that's maybe Google and such. I know Facebook has lower salaries too, like 80k or so.
@webarto :)
16:19
@webarto is 80k lower ?
@NullPointer Yes, should be around 120k :P
Now am getting stupid answers ...
@NullPointer i'm from costa rica and i'm working in usa right now
@webarto 12k, where? how?
@Baba @DaveRandom please answer :P
16:21
@Gordon its in indian currency 54 indian rupee == 1us$
@RommelCastro You don't find that, they find you :P
@NullPointer 80.000 of USD I meant.
@webarto Answer which question ?
@webarto sorry that was for Gordon
@Baba Ah sorry, he gave answer already, disregard that :P
@Gordon Seems about right.
2
A: Get Element at N position in an Array without Loop

NikiCWhat you want is not possible. PHP's arrays have efficient access by key, but don't have efficient access by offset. The order is only available as a linked list, so the best efficiency you can hope for is an O(n) loop, which just goes through the array and looks for the offset. If you want this...

@Gordon I think at least 1.5x.
@NikiC said its not possible
Then it's not ^_^
16:24
@webarto lol
@Gordon not too .. this is called too low payscale.com/research/IN/Skill=PHP/Salary
@webarto nah. that would be too much. I usually negotiate at about 5-10% higher though
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer salary is like 9k us $
@Gordon Well, if you have somewhere to live, life is cheaper than where I am and average salary is 300€, go figure. Do you have to pay taxes on that amount, or that is what you get?
16:26
@Gordon ummmm
@ircmaxell what does that mean? :) like, wondering?
@Gordon in New York, that's REALLY REALLY low
@webarto for how much time ?
We're poor :(
a "web developer" in NYC starts at $85k... A good senior developer can make $150+k
16:27
@ircmaxell its not low at all
@NullPointer Month, not web jobs, but regular ones.
@ircmaxell it's too low here, too. When I talk to recruiters we usually negotiate at around 55-65k euros
Erm... what's wrong with simple next()? — raina77ow 3 mins ago
Oh @webarto did you perchance find out about those servers you mentioned last week?
@ircmaxell whats the avg cost of living in NYC?
16:28
expensive as hell
@Gordon good to know! I was gonna accept 50k =_=
@Jimbo Yes, mate, too expensive :) hetzner.de/en take a look here.
Why would SplFixedArray not accept associate array in the first place ??? @NikiC
@webarto still far far more than here .
@ircmaxell figures then
16:28
@Baba because it's an array...
@ircmaxell btw. that guy who answered to your tweet didnt mean it the way he phrased it
there's no such data structure as an "associative array", it's a hybrid structure. You implement it as a hash table, or some other structure
Ahhh
@ircmaxell ?? explain .. does it mean in $a['b'] = "c" ; then $a is not a valid array ??
@NullPointer Yes, well, don't go in Eastern Europe :)
@Baba In PHP, yes. In CS and other languages, no
16:30
@Baba That's strictly not an array, but a map (bag), whatever. hash
In computer science, an array data structure or simply an array is a data structure consisting of a collection of elements (values or variables), each identified by at least one array index or key. An array is stored so that the position of each element can be computed from its index tuple by a mathematical formula. For example, an array of 10 integer variables, with indices 0 through 9, may be stored as 10 words at memory addresses 2000, 2004, 2008, … 2036, so that the element with index i has the address 2000 + 4 × i. Because the mathematical concept of a matrix can be represented as...
@ircmaxell PHP should at lean have something like Dic or Hashtable in the Datastructure
@Gordon Can you please advise about tax, I got 50k offer once, but they didn't want to say if it's with or without tax settled :)
$iterator = new ArrayIterator($array);
$iterator->seek($position);

echo $iterator->current();
@webarto want to say? bullshit. Make it say
16:31
Solution at last
@Baba solution to what?
2
Q: Get Element at N position in an Array without Loop

BabaHow get you get element key and value of an at the n position array at a particular position without loop. Imagine $postion = 3; // get array at 3rd position $array = array( "A" => "Four", "B" => "twp", "C" => "three", "D" => "Four", "E" =>...

3
A: Get Element at N position in an Array without Loop

DaveRandomAssuming PHP 5.4, with array dereferencing: echo $array[array_keys($array)[$position]]; In earlier versions you need to break it into two lines: $keys = array_keys($array); echo $array[$keys[$position]]; It would also be worth using the two-line approach in 5.4+ if you have to access multip...

@webarto lots of (~40%)
@DaveRandom how did i miss that
@Baba That's still just going to be doing a loop internally, it's just a low level C loop instead of a PHP one.
16:32
foreach would make a copy of the array ??? — Baba 5 mins ago
@ircmaxell I just ignored, 3-4 big mails and nothing concrete... IMHO USA FTW :) (easier to work with too) Thanks for advice ;)
@DaveRandom I know but its not creating a copy of the array
@Baba ? o.0" didn't we teach you anything? :)
@ircmaxell @NikiC will ArrayIterator end up creating a copy of the array data if you do that or not?
@Gordon Yes, that's bad :( Thanks!
16:33
@Jack are you saying am wrong
@DaveRandom most probably
if array iteration is involved, you get a copy nearly in all situations
@NikiC eih, not with an iterator...
@NikiC :-( but I'm not surprised after your answer from the other day
No, foreach doesn't make a copy of array. Arrays in PHP are copy-on-write. — raina77ow 4 mins ago
^^^^^ ???
16:35
yup
@NikiC can you help me answer that
@Baba what?
@Baba foreach just increases the ref count of each item as it iterates over the array.
after the loop is done, the refcount is decreased.
voila
@NikiC Does foreach make a copy of array or not
9
A: How foreach actually works

NikiCNote: This answer assumes that you have some basic knowledge about how zvals work in PHP, in particular you should know what a refcount is and what is_ref means. foreach works with all kinds of traversables, i.e. with arrays, with plain objects (where the accessible properties are traversed) and...

@Baba --^ there
(Answer is: Often, but not always)
16:38
@Gordon 40% its damn high ... here its just like 10% - 20% - 30%(based on income and highest is 30%) and in part of india i leave medical is free completely
@NullPointer its based on income here, too but with that salary it will be around ~40+
Free unless you're in Mumbai and you're caucasian tourist ;-)
Hi guys. wow... Im reading about the salaries in colombia we are very far far away from that. Its a shame that I can't get a job in the states as a web developer because I don't have any college studies in that topic.
@Gordon good lord...
@Jack Mumbai is such a bad place
16:40
@NikiC thanks ... also digested nikic.github.com/2011/12/12/…
@Gordon if salary is like 120k + than ?
let's all move to Australia :P
@NullPointer that would be around 65k taxes :)
@Gordon 40% ... income tax?
@Ocramius this is damn ... high ... here it would be maximum 33k
The highest tax wedges for single workers without children who are earning the average wage in their country were observed in Belgium (55.5%), Germany (49.8%) and Hungary and France (49.4%). The lowest tax wedges on the same basis were in Chile (7%), Mexico (16.2%) and New Zealand (15.9%) The average for OECD countries was 35.3%. Source: oecd.org/newsroom/…
@NikiC is there any reason SplFixedArray does not have seek like ArrayIterator
@Ocramius and if you do business its up to you how much you want to pay ..
it will even work with 2k $ tax
@ircmaxell Nice ...... Interesting
@Baba open up a feature request
@NullPointer advantages and disadvantages... 9gag.com/gag/6124332
16:44
@ircmaxell How do you do that ...... rfc.php or bugs.php ??
@Baba afaict splfixedarray doesn't need seek() because the index IS the position.
@Baba either
@Jack seek for iteration
@Jack yes. in addition to healthsystem insurance, which is mandatory here and quite stiff as well ~15% from what is left after income taxes
@Ocramius well its not like that ... you just need to slap doctor if he say that thing ..... and complain to higher authority here and it will work
@Gordon :O ... in Bosnia it's 10%, but I don't pay that :P For health insurance and pension plan you need to pay minimum 200€ per month.
16:45
@Jack seek for Iterator ...
@ircmaxell thanks
@Gordon Good lord. And people say healthcare in the US is expensive. I used to pay 10% YEARS ago, but now it's down around 1.5%... For better coverage...
@Gordon Wow ... over here we have compulsary savings, but in terms of income tax, last year I paid zilch.
@ircmaxell Hmm? seek for iteration?
@Jack skip items while iterating, or jump to different points. That's the definition of a seekableiterator
@Jack if you are employed, half of healthcare insurance is paid by your employer. same for pension plan
@webarto pension plan is the thing every one have to thought
16:47
but since i am a freelancer …
@ircmaxell I think Baba meant the seek() method on ArrayIterator and why it's not part of SplFixedArray.
@Gordon any one tried government sector ?
@NullPointer No, not me... My father in law worked for 40 years and only lived to get 3 years of pension because of the health system, to whom he paid 300€ a month.
@NullPointer nope
@Gordon Ah, yes, pension plan ... that's only partially taken care of, it's always recommended to have a separate investment ;-)
16:49
@webarto doesnt that company give premium and rest of money
Unless you want to scrape the barrel once you retire lol
oh .. the states healthcare system... here the healthcare its free if you don't have money.
@Jack they are planning on making it mandatory for freelancers now. i do have one though, so i dont care
@Gordon That's sensible :)
@Jack i have to pay less taxes because of the pension plan. but will have to pay taxes on the pension then
16:50
@Jack is they give anything like PF ?
@NullPointer No, only one child gets for a year if under 25 and in school.
You still hope for a pension :D
funny :D
@Ocramius Exactly :P
@webarto that is ridiculous ....
@Gordon o.0 ... taxes on pension? but the money you put into the pension is already taxed? oh, maybe not huh
@Ocramius it's a private and fund driven "rürup rente", so the only thing standing between me and the pension is death ;)
and provident fund?
@Gordon yeah, I subscribed one too before 12/12 ;)
@webarto yeah, I do have an account with them
@NullPointer Wats PF? Pension fund?
16:53
@Jack sorry provident fund
@Gordon I think it get 5% on savings and e.g. Raiffeisen is giving 1.5-2%. Kewl :)
They have compulsory savings which is jointly paid between employer and yourself (the salary that gets put into your account is already nett wages).
@Jack nah, its not taxed yet. it basically lowers my income for that year by the amount i put into the pension. or something like that. german tax law ftw. not.
@Jack and how much they pay interest on that money ?
hi guys....i cloned windows 2003 server with xampp for windows......the apache is not started in the cloned one...where as in originalone it is running...what settings do i need to do in cloned one...
16:55
@webarto i dont have a savings account with them. just a regular
Those savings are then split over three buckets, health, special investment and the ordinary account (from which you can pay your mortgage for instance).
@NullPointer Eh, they pay out a pretty reasonable interest ... it's stable at least.
I don't know the number though.
@Gordon Yeah, it's funny that majority of web banking systems are in Java and sucks :)
@Jack here its like 8.75 now ..
@Gordon Ah right, that sort of sounds familiar ;-)
8.75%??
Is that investment backed or sth?
@ircmaxell get me a job in NYC pls :)
16:57
@Jack sorry ?
when i say localhost in the browser...in original one it is taking to phpmyadmin....where are in th cloned server...it is taking to iis
@NullPointer You mentioned 8.75 ... that's the interest rate they pay you?
@Jack sorry its 8.6 and yes they pay to us ....
8.6% is pretty high ... bank interest never gets that high here.
16:59
@DaveRandom yeah, that sounds like I could do it. I always sanitize inputs
@Jack its once 12%
@Jack its like ((your money)+(they add equal money)) and than 8.6 % interest on it
Eeii, meta is under maintenance.
$i = 0;
foreach ($array as $value) {
    if ($i++ === $offset) {
        // found value
    }
}
@NikiC awesome, never seen code like this :)
Meta means murder ... o_0
17:01
@Jack banks give same interest for fix deposit (1 year) like 8.75 and for senior citizens its 10%
hi guys...i cloned the windows 2003 server...xampp for windows installed on it....in the original server apache is running...but in the cloned one...the apache is not running...still it is pointing to iis when i type localhost in the browser.....why? any ideas//////
@Jack Meat :P
@PeterJennings disable IIS and change to linux server
peta means murder :P
@Gordon sure, np
peta kills animals ... hmm
17:03
@ircmaxell and maybe an appartment at Upper West Side, across the street from an entrance to the 86th Street subway please
easy peasy
@ircmaxell i want a new job too!
@ircmaxell i'd settle at Yorkville, at East 81st Street and 1st Avenue, as well
@RommelCastro Maybe @ircmaxell needs a bodyguard ;-)
@Jack lol....
17:04
@Jack nah, if anything the other way around
heh
@Jack i used to be a bouncer before become a dev, so i can do that hahahaha
See? It all works out.
I worked security at a mental hospital, so i can as well
I feel like cheating a bit ... to get to 15+ votes on python I do searches for [regex] [python] lol
17:05
damn!!!
@Jack same here. only I didn't care enough to run through it
no one recognized the addresses :(
@Gordon nope
@ircmaxell so far they've not been very impressed by my regex skillz .. oh well ;-)
@webarto sarcasm?
17:07
@ircmaxell first one is Ted's appartment from How I met your mother. Second is Barneys.
@NikiC No, just this $i++ === $offset, seriously :)
@Gordon Ah nice!
I liked last night's
@ircmaxell didnt get it yet. germany is way behind so I have to find it elsewhere on the net
@ircmaxell I'm afraid your last night's episode is my Christmas special heh; darn censorship board.
i still have to watch from s07E23 onwards
17:10
:-(
so no spoilers. its worse enough that barney spoilers me on fb :)
I still like the first 3 seasons best, but it's getting good again
I named the transcript bookmark after the pineapple incident (s01e10) :)
oh man, the spoilers I could say
/me nods as if he had an idea of what is being discussed
17:13
@ircmaxell barney spoilered me about his fiancee already. more than enough ;)
@Ocramius same here bro :D
@Gordon yeah, that's a big spoiler... As the buildup to it is aweosme
just... 72... more... rep... damn...
hey all!
17:17
@webarto I wouldn't admit to that ;-)
:D
@ircmaxell I've sent the one you've sent me to a guy that refuses to see it like we do :P
(too big)
@Ocramius You're trying to reach 3k? :
@Jack yeah, but no more questions appearing :P I don't wanna go around and answer random stuff
@webarto trust me :D
Feb 23 at 16:44, by ircmaxell
watch it, trust me ;-)
:P
17:24
hi Nullpointer...whats up
@Ocramius If you want free rep just go and troll for a bit
@DaveRandom please, NO!
:P
I'll just wait tomorrow :)
@PeterJennings just watching movie ..you ?
@Ocramius i am just watching and its increase like 20 -30 per day
I prefer a slow death with a spoon
17:28
uhhh
How to kill a mockingbird, with
why such hatred for jquery?
$("@Hamad").everything()
:P
hey guys, is it possible to return an array of elements containing certain values? the elements are fairly deep so i've gotten myself lost hehe
@webarto was it you that was looking at trying to register gayqueery.com the other day? Seems like both exactly the sort of thing you would do and not at all the given the number of bastard jChildren you have
17:32
jQuery ain't so bad, the questions on it however ...
@Ocramius seems to run deeper on the php forums than anywhere else
Then again, the same could be said for php heh
@Ocramius Rep cap? :) 2.998
rofl
@DaveRandom Yes, but it has been registered already and now they're selling it for gold :P (also, I don't get what you've written :P)
17:33
You just know you're reading a great question when they start talking about json objects.
Will.I.Am adds: "Here we are, 2013. We all depend on technology to communicate, to bank, information, and none of us know how to read and write code."
@Ocramius you need one accepted answer
I know how to read and write code!
@ircmaxell I thought that was mobile version of the website.
@Jack It just gets used to solve a problem that doesn't exist far too much. I understand the nice abstractions that make all those nasty cross-browser issues disappear, but people use it (badly) for all sort of things that work everywhere just fine without it. And it's DOM selectors are reeeeaaaaallllllyyyyy sssssllllllooooooowwww and while(1); resource hungry.
17:37
@NullPointer I'm preparing sebastian ( youtube.com/… ) to go hunt down who didn't yet accept my answers
@ircmaxell in this particular case, s/code/music
@DaveRandom Unless it can use querySelectorAll I guess
@Hamad Once you understand and know how to use the DOM, feel free to use jQuery for the fast development and simple abstractions it gives you. But until you understand how it works and what price you pay for using it, don't use it. IMO.
@Gordon yes, that's true as well
@DaveRandom what price do you pay for using jquery? is there something I am missing?
17:40
@Hamad the problem is not jQuery itself. It's a great tool, but most people use it as super super super global access to the world
@Jack But that's just the thing. How many times to you see code with simple $('#id') or $('.className') or $('tagname') selectors - all things which have simple, optimised natives. And yes, querySelector(All) is a nice addition, but as usual it's not yet usable in the real world because M$ don't do it yet. Unless IE10 does it, I don't know.
@Gordon s/code/ALL OF THE THINGS :P
@DaveRandom What's this IE10 thing you're talking about?
@Hamad The same price you pay for any abstraction - increased overhead and often some terrible practices underneath (for ex. it uses way too much innerHTML for my liking). My biggest bugbare is the selectors though (see my last couple of comments) - they are really great for the complex stuff but insanely inefficient for the simple stuff you do 99% of the time.
ok, bbiab
17:44
Also because the constructor has so many ways of calling it, it takes a lot of unnecessary processing. And because when writing jQ code you call that constructor usually a few times in a single procedure, it can really stack up after a while
who cares about efficiency about 99% of the time?
yeah, I also don't think that's the problem...
@ircmaxell It's a fair point. And you'll note I'm not saying "don't use jQuery" I'm just saying "don't use it until you understand it". And I also accept that many do not share my view on the matter, and they have their reasons, and that's fine.
fair enough
Trogdor uses jQuery to select which houses to burninate.
17:47
@DaveRandom Well I'm not too concerned with client-side overhead, and a few kbs here and there won't wind a modern computer.
maybe the discussion is lets find ways to make more efficient DOM lookups? cba :P
@DaveRandom querySelectorAll() has been supported since IE8...
The size of the library is peanuts in comparison imho
And it can be cached quite aggressively.
@Hamad Indeed. It is absolutely true that you will (and probably should) care about those inefficiencies much less when the code is going to be executed on someone else's machine and it doesn't eat into your server load. But when you get to really complex and JS-heavy sites like Facebook you'll find they tend to steer clear of that kind of thing and write very tailor-made solutions, because when you are running that much JS it can really add up to a noticeable UX hit.
change of topic: elitist nerds scaring off noobs from using JQuery, and maybe some PHP talk.
@BoltClock So it has, my mistake. It's a while since I read any docs for it, I note MDN state that it has limitations before IE9, I shall refresh myself on that matter
17:52
@DaveRandom legitimate concerns, definitely.
@DaveRandom As far as I know the only limitations are that IE8 doesn't implement most CSS3 selectors so those will not work in qSA on IE8
Yup, cos you never know when you become the next Facebook =D
The Selectors API is just a JavaScript frontend to the browser's native CSS selector engine, that's why
@Hamad Please don't use this elitist nerds term here.
@webarto take a joke, poke fun at yourselves.
17:54
jQuery handles this gracefully anyway, at least jQuery >= 1.9 does
13
A: What CSS3 selectors does jQuery really support, e.g. :nth-last-child()?

BoltClockWhile jQuery advertises compliance with the Selectors level 3 standard on its home page, it does not fully implement the spec. In its own Selectors documentation, it clarifies that it "[borrows] from CSS 1–3, and then [adds] its own" selectors.1 Starting from jQuery 1.9, virtually all selectors ...

@Hamad I'm trying not to appear as if I'm trying to scare people away from it, I simply ask that people try and understand what they are using before they get so used to using it that they forget that they are using it (follow that? no, me neither) - if you look at the questions in you'll see a lot of people who seem to think that Javascript is something separate and distinct, and that is the kind of thing that is dangerous IMO.
@Hamad chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/11?m=7914270#7914270 you've said the same thing yesterday.
(also I do tend to come off a bit ranty when I get onto this topic, I am aware of that)
@DaveRandom you're right many jQuery questions/answers are downright amusing, and don't take any overhead inefficiencies into consideration.

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