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3:01 PM
apparently AZ has stronger side effects for first one, for Pfizer it's the second.
 
I had J&J, mild symptoms the first night, nothing after.
 
First dose of Pfizer wasn't too bad for me, I'll get my second dose this weekend.
 
@Crell Nearly. I get 2nd dose this week.
Which means that when we head out do the loop a couple weeks after, we should be gtg.
 
@Sara Good good, then you'll be fully covered by Memorial Day Weekend. I'm getting back to having my annual picnic, for vaxed-only this year. :-)
 
I need to wait 11 weeks for the second dose
 
3:07 PM
((angela is vaxxing at the same time))
 
Unless you'll be on the road then.
 
@Crell Are you enforcing vaccine passport control at your border?
 
LOLOL! If you need a laugh... youtube.com/watch?v=gao4Oea5ajQ
 
What's the uptake in the US with the vaccine? Here it seems to be consistently over 90%
 
At sword point, now that I have several swords with which to do so. :-)
(Really it will just be honor system; Everyone who is invited is someone I trust to not lie about such things in the first place, or they wouldn't be invited.)
 
3:09 PM
I doubt very much the US is anywhere remotely near 90%
 
Annual picnic? :O
 
@StatikStasis I prefer youtube.com/watch?v=VwXKR9EWhXo
Hatebeak rules
 
the over 42nd (that is 42-45 here) had 95% uptake
 
Oh, quick google suggests 100 million vaccinated in us
That's like.... 30% or so
 
@Tiffany I have a back yard, therefore American tradition requires that I grill things thrice a year: memorial day weekend, 4th of July weekend, and labor day weekend.
 
3:10 PM
They've just opened it up for the over 40s here though - M's getting hers on Sunday
 
Yea, that's what I seem to be seeing too
That's full vaccination with 2 doses
 
@Tiffany Larry should invite you, you're not that far away...
 
If you're vaxed and able to get to Chicago, you are welcome to come up. Maybe that will incentivize Sara to finally show up to one. ;-)
 
Chicago is within driving distance, ~5 hours
haven't been to Chicago in a few years
 
It would save me stuffing elephpants into a box.
 
3:12 PM
that's true!
 
Which always feels cruel.
 
Poor elephpants. :-(
 
What's the official elephpant store
Would like to buy one
for reasons ...
 
It feels disturbing how can I understand french even tho my french is limited to oui
 
3:16 PM
My first one is now stood on top of my speaker, with a rubber duck next to him
 
Bruno BAGUETTE
Is this real or a joke ?
 
I need to build some new shelving to house all of my elePHPants.
@Sara You dodged the question of your availability, btw. ;-)
 
@Crell I just did that!
new shelves, that is
 
I was wondering how you dodged the question of your picnic availability...
 
they're 185cm long, and already stacked 3 high
 
3:24 PM
extension_dir => /usr/local/lib/php/pecl/20200930 => /usr/local/lib/php/pecl/20200930
Why are there two => here?
I think it has to do with INI overrides or something?
Directive => Local Value => Master Value
^ Not exactly a precise thing, at least as far as I'm aware.
 
@Crell My availability is TBD. My world is chaos and thunder atm.
 
Well, invite stands, as usual. :-P
 
@ln-s Because all romance languages are just latin with an accent.
Just like English is German with an accent and a bit of brain damage.
 
And by brain damage you mean "latin."
 
Right, the brain damage has us occaisionally thinking we're french.
Related; One of my favorite "England and Britain are two people separated by a common language" stories is the time I was asking my friend for some boullion cubes. She had nfc what I was talking about. After describing it as salty meaty granules used to make broth, she's like, "Oh... you mean XO cubes?"
 
3:39 PM
England and Britain?
 
Also, OXO.
 
I meant America and Britian :p
Whatever
Yes. OXO.
I don't know why, but I've tried removing that first O more than once.
 
@Danack That whole set was killer. I remember watching that back when it came out years ago.
...cake please
 
3:55 PM
@Danack That was my intro to Eddie and it was funny af. Ever since then his stuff has been....meh... not un-funny, but not nearly as solid of a set.
 
@Danack Also worth watching Mongrel Nation, a 3 part documentary from Eddie on UK history, and how lots of things aren't actually English/British... really wound up my dad.
 
4:13 PM
Given this input string:
<div class=':foo' style=':bar'>
    :quux
</div>
Does anyone know a library that could be used to parse it and return something like:
[
    [
        'type' => 'attribute',
        'string' => ':foo',
        'position' => 12,
    ],
    [
        'type' => 'css',
        'string' => ':bar',
        'position' => 26,
    ],
    [
        'type' => 'html',
        'string' => ':quux',
        'position' => 32,
    ],
];
 
4:26 PM
you would be looking at some kind of HTML parser, but I can't think of one that outputs that info... in mine I'm using XML, which I think you were unhappy with, but it allows me to use a very fast RegEx on Live (a "?" is an attribute, >?< is a DOM node)... that allows quick value filling... then dev mode uses DomDocument to check the attribute contexts, so <a href="?"> checks that attribute is given a URL value-object (cannot be javascript:), etc.
I assume you're looking at esprintf
And would you say you're basically looking for /:[a-z]+/ ?
 
yeah....not unhappy with just didn't have the strength to even figure out what is valid xml...
@CraigFrancis except it also needs the context of where it's used, to determine the type.
 
I assume <div class=":a :b"> isn't allowed? as in, the attribute is only going to contain one variable?
 
don't know.
The problem that would be nice to solve, is to avoid having to repeat the escaping type, or indeed specify the escaping type at all.
 
If that was the case, you could use a RegEx to find the placeholder positions (12,26,32)... then use DomDocument to do the proper HTML parsing, where you could node walk and check the attributes.
Although, you would have to check for repeated use of the same value, e.g. <div class=":name">:name</div>
would also have to be careful with performance, especially if the same snippet is being parsed many times (e.g. I create a template object that takes and parses the HTML template, then have a method I can call multiple times to return the HTML with the different values).
 
Last leak repeated 365738 times 😳
 
4:41 PM
if you're using DomDocument though, do you need 'position'? you could update the values, then export the final HTML?
 
not strictly need, but I prefer nice error messages....
 
@Danack github.com/wikimedia/remex-html Might parse things nicely for you, though you'd probably have to convert the DOM it creates into the desired output.
 
@Danack Just got my first Pfizer two hours ago. Let's see what happens ^^
 
@Trowski ta
 
PDO statement segfault on invalid param ・ PDO PgSQL ・ #81009
 
4:58 PM
First jab wasn't anything, but I hear #2 is brutal.
 
Oh joy...
 
I got my second shot last Tuesday. About 12 hours later I had a mild fever, but by the time I woke up the next morning I was fine.
 
Yea I get #2 next week
 
Moderna for me. My wife got Pfizer and she never had a fever, just some mild arm pain.
 
The first one actually made me really tired for like 2 days
 
5:03 PM
I was tired the evening I got my first shot. Other than arm pain/stiffness that was all.
 
5:21 PM
@Trowski The day after the second shot seems to be the worst for most. But the day after that is great.
 
moin
 
@DaveRandom o/
 
5:40 PM
Using svn my trunks source suddenly updated to an early version of themselves. Thinking maybe someone hacked me. Or maybe some bug where I'm hosting the source code.
 
6:06 PM
@Danack is that utf8 or ascii? (not that I know of a library either way, just wondering how far down the rabbit hole you're looking at :)
 
6:26 PM
...also do you want to parse out placeholders in the middle of node text, or does the placeholder represent the entire node value? because if the latter I'm pretty sure I could knock that up in a couple of hours
you just need to walk the tree and visit every node with a direct text value
then have a few pre-programmed patterns for what things should be based on where in the document flow they appear
the text position within the string it trickier, admittedly, that would need an incremental parser I guess
 
"you just need to walk the tree and visit every node with a direct text value" - and I would find that....in the computer? in case you didn't see it - github.com/wikimedia/remex-html looks good, and I'm off to play with it in a bit. Please don't spend time knocking something up yet, I'm still thinking through whether even if it's a good idea.
 
//text() is prob not a bad place to start
similarly it's not hard to just get all attribute nodes
 
Phpstorm added a "generate unique xpath" feature that's amazeballs
 
or //[text()] maybe?
I can't remember but there is deffo easy xpath to basically just give you a list of nodes to iterate over
 
// and then the name of the node
can also be anchored to at a deeper level
/namespace:root/namespace:content//namespace:relation returns all relation nodes from within root and content nodes as a DOM NodeList
namespace: only necessary if your XML has a namespace, which should be registered using DOMXPath::registerNamespace
but seriously, open XML file in phpstorm, click on an element and try out "show unique xpath"
 
6:34 PM
Is it the phpstan author or phan author that hangs out here? :-)
 
@Crell Both have been here, Ondřej is here more often.
@Crell Oh, do you mean Phan or Psalm? Phans author is Tyson, I haven't seen him here. But Matthew from Psalm has been on here before.
 
No, phpstan. I'm trying to figure out why it's erroring on me for something.
 
@Crell can you share a code sample? i might be able to help, tho, I'm more familiar with psalm.
 
`$reflectionClass = new \ReflectionClass($reflectionType->getName());`

To which it responds: "Parameter #1 $argument of class ReflectionClass constructor expects class-string<T of object>|T of object, string given."

Which I don't quite get. I'm specifically trying to generate an exception in case the class doesn't exist. (Trying to maintain an existing API.)
 
@Crell I suppse $reflectionType->getName() is not guaranteed to be a class name (e.g. primitive types). 3v4l.org/CVhaN
 
6:43 PM
the error makes sense, phpstan seems to consider ReflectionClass generic ( ReflectionClass<T of object> ), and the construct requires a classname<T> or T, so you should verify that the argument is a classname before calling the constructor, and generate your own exception
 
In context I know it is, because prior lines check for ReflectionNamedType and isBuiltIn() == false
 
@Crell Yeah, PHPStan is not smart enough for that. A call to class_exists should fix it.
 
/** @var class-string<mixed> $classname */
$classname = $reflectionType->getName();
$reflection = new ReflectionClass($classname);
 
Hm. Thing is, if the class doesn't exist, I want a reflection exception, because there's code higher up the stack that catches it and turns it into a ClassNotFound exception.
 
@SaifEddinGmati Or that.
 
6:45 PM
Let me try that.
 
not sure if mixed works there, if not, try object
 
@Crell Maybe assert would be fitting too.
 
Stan seems to like it, so... yay!
Thanks!
Honestly what's fitting is deleting this entire file, but that's slated for later already. :-) I just need to make it not-fail on 8.0.
 
Can PR's like this just be sent to the php-src project or does it require additional work like registering a bug or rfc first or something along those lines?
https://github.com/veewee/php-src/pull/1
 
That should be able to be PRed directly
 
6:51 PM
Allright, thanks!
 
Might need a discussion on list, which can lead to an RFC, but can also be just merged
 
ok, that's clear. Will do it that way then
Would it be the same process for adding a function to for example DOMElement?
 
7:21 PM
@VeeWee likely would need an RFC. Possibly.
Probably depends on what the change entails
 
I am not sure yet to be honest ... There is room for improvement in the dom extension. So I am investigating what is possible and comparing it to other languages etc.

Was more curious about the development cycle.
 
Very small changes can be non-RFC, especially if it's just an idiomatic wrap of a library method.
 
alright, that might be an easy way to start! Thanks
 
could've sworn there was a like...tutorial doc on the development workflow/cycle
https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
https://www.php.net/build-setup.php
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/howto
https://wiki.php.net/vcs/gitworkflow
 
cool, read most of them already, but finding your way is always a bit of a puzzle :)
 
7:39 PM
That appears to be an oversight. DOMNamespaceNode definitely should have extended DOMNode.
 
@VeeWee When in doubt, post a link to a PR to the internals list and ask "does this need an RFC?" And if more than 1 person says yes, assume it does. :-)
 
I would drop a quick note on internals to be safe, yes, but IMO that's more of a bugfix.
 
8:03 PM
What do you guys think, if I tell a company I need a week to respond to their job offer that's completely reasonable right?
 
A week isn't unreasonable.
 
I didn't think so
 
You're going to (presumably) work for them for years. If they can't spare a week, then they have fucked up priorities and your answer should be 'no' anyway.
 
I did that before and a company rescinded their offer. I think I dodged a bullet but I just wanted to make sure haha
Right that's what I was thinking
 
@DaveRandom Your sense of humor is sometimes as immature as mine- maybe you'll enjoy too... youtube.com/watch?v=gw1g2yKxb0I
 
8:10 PM
Ok, will try to be present on externals first :) thanks for the pointers!
 
@scorgn How badly do you want the job? Are you waiting on another company to make an offer? Why make them wait?
 
@Trowski I am interviewing with 4 different companies that I would consider working for. I just want some time to finish interviewing with all of them and make a decision based on the offers I get
I think I know which one I would want but just want to take some time to sleep on it
 
I'm assuming the one that made you the offer is not your first choice then :)
 
I don't have a first choice yet :p
Pros and cons with all of them
 
Nobody expects you to say yes on the spot, but a week might be a little long IMO if you really want to work for a company.
 
8:23 PM
I think it's fair to give them a date by which you'll give them an answer, so that you can hear back from the others. (And then bug the others to get back to you by then.)
 
I guess I also want to know that they're okay with waiting a week though. Like companies that extend job offers right after interviewing just once, I think I'm good those types of companies. Something sounds fishy if they need me to accept an offer right away
But yeah I would then tell the other companies I got an offer and speed up the process, then take a weekend to consider my options
 
Random question. With all of the new null-handling syntax that's been added in recent years, what's the best modern way to do "if this array key exists, add $x to it, otherwise set it to $x"?
 
Is it always an integer?
 
String in this case.
 
so, append $x to it then?
 
8:26 PM
Yes. Although I presume the logic is the same in either case.
 
if (!isset($array[$key])) {
    $array[$key] = '';
}

$array[$key] .= $x
 
I'm thinking $a[$b] = ($a[$b] ?? '') . $x;
But it feels like there's some better option now.
 
I think that explicit is better
There are shorter ways, but I would write it out the long way for readability
 
Or possibly $a[$b] ?? = ''; $a[$b] .= $x;
In context that's going to make the code worse to read.
 
Could always just break it out into a private function
 
8:29 PM
Also worse in context.
 
@Crell I don't think that's valid PHP :P
 
@Crell This.
 
It is, but it looks like it doesn't allow for $b being null..
@Trowski I feel like I'm missing something that should make that shorter now, but I can't remember what.
 
??= doesn't really apply here since you want to append.
 
Right, ??= would be to set a default.
 
8:32 PM
@StatikStasis is that a real product?
it looks worrying like a real infomercial
 
@DaveRandom Yes it is real.
Surprisingly.
 
I feel like the existence of a product is a troll to make that infomercial and there are two stoners on a couch somewhere in massive debt, sniggering
 
Two for the price of one! Get one for each tiddy in your life!
 
@Trowski lol- that made me laugh
 
Tiddy?
Okay...
 
8:37 PM
@King_Coda See link above DaveRandom was referring to.
29 mins ago, by Statik Stasis
@DaveRandom Your sense of humor is sometimes as immature as mine- maybe you'll enjoy too... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1g2yKxb0I
lol
 
Ah
Thank you for the context
 
Still available! tiddybear.tv
 
Okay, how many people here think the SO community is toxic, raise your hand.
 
@Trowski But wait... there's more! Act now and get two tiddys!
 
8:39 PM
@King_Coda crickets chirp
 
I just got my question shut down by some desk jockey numbnut named "Chris" and 2 other people because the question was "too long". If the question wasn't the length provided, then it would not have been clear.
 
walks out
 
I don't go to the main site much. chat is definitely cliquey
 
Chat most certainly is cliquey
 
SO annoyingly ceased to be a place I want to hang about a long-ass time ago
 
8:40 PM
@DaveRandom Yes!
 
Don't you say we're cliquey or we won't let you stay in our group!
 
@Trowski lol
 
@DaveRandom is also a numbnut "Chris" as well.
 
it is full of demonstrably terrible questions, and people who are so anal about the rules that they ignore good questions
 
EXACTLY
 
8:41 PM
@StatikStasis *knumbnut, I'm English
 
My apologies, mate.
 
now they all wonder whether that is legit
 
I'm just gonna chill in codingame for the rest of my life, they are actually helpful and aren't toxic
and chat there is some of the funniest stuff I've seen, in a good way
Also, it looks visually a whole lot better than this weird 2007 HTML5 crap they have here.
 
Yeah, I came to SO for the chat. My interaction with the main site was mostly so I could chat.
 
Same here. I only came here for the chat
 
8:44 PM
That's probably true for a large number of people in this room.
 
I remember when it used to be good :-(
 
And even that is a little dodgy (no offense to you guys, you're fine)
 
I used to spend hours answering Qs, I don't have 80K or whatever it is now for nothing
it just became nothing but "write my code for me kthxbye" or dupes eventually
which I guess is inevitable
there are only so many canonical answers to write
 
I wanted to get that sweet sweet google analytics, but now i realise that's impossible with Chris downvoting all of my questions
i'm barely hanging on to 25 rep by a thread, how the hell do you expect me to get to 25,000?
 
Is anyone aware of an extension that writes logs to something other than where PHP writes logs to? Like an $ext.log_location or anything?
Or does everyone just mix it in with the regular PHP logs?
 
8:50 PM
How come when I search "nudes" 35 messages pop up?
 
@CraigFrancis Yes, sure! Where is the branch without concat support?
 
cmb
@LeviMorrison expect.logfile and opcache.error_log (see php.net/manual/en/ini.list.php; there may be more)
 
@King_Coda in fairness, the question you're referring to that was closed, the first couple of paragraphs read like a homework question and I immediately started zoning out. Try to give a quick summary as the first paragraph of your question, and clearly ask your question shortly after the summary. It aids potential answerers.
And Chris' comment wasn't toxic... it's a "hey, your question can be improved, check this guide" link, which is fairly common.
Toxic is more like "your question is bad and you should feel bad" without any help on how to improve it. And usually more rude.
 
@Sara Lol yeah, latin is all over western languages
Was surprised by how many words in german actually come from latin
 
9:42 PM
@MateKocsis Can you do the tests from this patch file (it's a basic hack job based on Joe's version)... I need to walk my dog, and might take a while to create a branch from the same point the original branch used (no worries if not, I can probably work out how to do it tomorrow). Thanks.
 
9:58 PM
@cmb Thanks.
 
10:17 PM
huh. I've concatenated a script like this within the document body and I find it's not the worse way to gradually refactor towards es2015 modules:
<script type="module">
    import {loadFile} from '/js/edition_profil_es2015mod.js';
    document.getElementById('input-photo-profil').addEventListener('change', loadFile);
</script>
I'm also wondering how horrible this is. it's rather expeditive and looks a bit weird in the html document's source code, but it's also super minimal as impact, it really just need a new public js file.
the actual side-effect that made me use this is that way, I don't have to think about how to embed what js is used in what page \o/
 
10:43 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I'm going through a similar process upgrading stuff to modules and typescript, i'm moving everything through webpack instead and add listeners at init to try and hook things up
 
@MarkR except I'm doing the contrary, I am taking stuff out of the webpack bundling process, and create native es2015 modules
the import is made by the browser
 
What advantage does that bring you?
 
I would have presumed that, at this point, you would think that getting out of using webpack would be sufficient a goal as and of itself, but I get out of it much less maintenance pain, also bundle size, and ease of refactoring
 
I can't claim to be having any of those issues. I'm loving webpack.
 
10:47 PM
But I'm using typescript so the transpile is a given
How many packages are you cramming in that package size is an issue?
 
the issue of package size is a planetary one
There are a lot of sites out there. It's just wasteful to move things around for nothing all the time. And es2015 modules are starting to have excellent availability.
 
Well you listed it alongside maintenance pain, and ease of refactoring. I am wondering what those issues are as im becoming more and more invested in it, and if there's an issue im curious about why
 
moreover, there are also humans who do not have high speed internet on their cellphones
 
... Still not seeing the problem
 
there's no problem. you ask, what advantage that brings me, whereas for me it's not really the advantages (though I maintain those I have mentioned) rather that the absence of disadvantages.
I can think of no reason not to lift my websites from depending on webpack
 
10:59 PM
Except more difficult dependency management, larger code, no tech like scss and ts etc. Seem like pretty big disadvantages to me. You can of course do them all other ways but at that point you're just doing webpack with extra steps
 
or rather, no reason not to move towards native javascript modules developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Guide/Modules
@MarkR there is no need for scss or sass anymore
we have native css variables, and built in grid and flex frameworks
and the dependency management is easier not harder
you really just expose the modules and the browser will resolve when to load which
 
So, you manually scope every one of your css names etc?
 
I don't really do that
 
What scope of site are you working on might I ask?
 
I stopped using sass and going for vanilla css grids and noticed that 1. I had less css to write and 2. it was easier to maintain it
 
11:02 PM
Are we talking a few pages, a few dozen, a few thousand?
 
What difference does it make? If a stylesheet is made in ways that it scales in size according the the number of pages, no sass or scss will make it better
 
Well, it sounds like giving up a lot of powerful productivity and performance tools just to do the hip modern thing, but I take it you know what you're doing :-)
 
Hmmm. It seems to me you got it reversed, if anything, I'm moving away from hip things towards the vanilla specification of the languages that I use.
I use the very language constructs that the designers of ecmascript and cascading style sheets design as the web evolves.
 
There's a reason people use toolchains ^_^
 
you know, it's not like I haven't used them extensively for the past 5 years :)
and my journey brings me to a place where I find that all these toolings mostly take time of me tooling the tools, and less time for me actually writing css or simple ecmascripts to solve things on a UI.
 
11:11 PM
You gave 3 examples, none of which I have personally experienced, in fact having experienced the opposite of each.
 
and that is ok
 
Which is why I chose to ask further
 
oh yeah, that's all good
4 mins ago, by Mark R
There's a reason people use toolchains ^_^
mostly this^ reads a bit like "bah anyway all these people do that, they can't possibly be wrong, what are you doing"?
which is why I chose to reassure you that indeed, I am well familiar with toolchains
 
Well I shall extend it, there's a reason people use toolchains, because they can do things which a human cannot do efficiently, for example collapsing symbols down to the smallest length, eliminating whitespace, dead code elimination, micro optimization.
 
well, I would hazard I value these things differently than those people
 
11:18 PM
Yet you explicitly pointed out people on cellphones without high speed internet :-)
Your implied priorities do not match your actions.
 
these things you mention, have little incidence on the bundle size, compared to using a js framework
what is the difference in size between a gzipped bundle where you have eliminated whitespace and that same bundle where you haven't?
another strategy for dead code elimination is... not writing dead code.
ide's are quite capable in that regard.
 
cool stuff: HSL ( hacks standard library ), is now included with HHVM, and is written in Hack, rather than C++/Rust https://github.com/facebook/hhvm/tree/master/hphp/hsl

I would love for PHP to do the same at some point and make it easier for people to contribute.
 
Once you've compressed it with Terser? Somewhere between 50 and 75%
 
I mean, with normal whitespace using :P
 
There's more to it than just whitespace. Writing code should be descriptive for the sake of the programmer, once it gets to production that's no longer necessary, why call call something mapValuesXByY when it can just be called 'a'
true gets changed to !0 etc, lots of little things that add up to make a pretty reasonable difference.
 
11:47 PM
I think we got mixed up @MarkR. I don't really care about webpack to be fair, my idea was way more about how using es2015 modules with ad-hoc inlined scripts in templates was useful for me currently.
 
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