« first day (3826 days earlier)      last day (1136 days later) » 
00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

8:00 PM
blade has the same issue as PHP templates ( IIRC it allows writing PHP code in the template )
 
Doesn't means you have to
 
@azjezz Sure. But it's fair to say: "don't put logic in your templates that do not belong there" :)
I see what you are saying btw, but the trade-off doesn't do it for me
 
^ yes
 
people will do it regardless, i like to make sure they won't be able to :p
 
to the first statement
 
8:02 PM
For me personally I much prefer educating people and handling it when reviewing than having to deal with template engines with their own weird quircks
 
but i also hate tempting and dealing with FE stuff, for past couple of years, the only templates i touched in productions were of legacy projects I am migrating.

i just create objects, serialize them and send them over the wire for someone else to deal with.
 
hehe
 
I don't worry anymore with templating in PHP I just use js in the frontend anyway
 
APIs are nice, don't get me started on broken frontend frameworks though :P
lol @ln-s. timing :D
 
Much simpler, logic doesn't leaks in anywhere, two teams
simple
 
8:05 PM
honestly i don't care at all about FE, i just like creating APIs
 
timing as in ... dev time ?
yeah backend people will backend frontend people will frontend
YMCA will YMCA
germans will german, etc
 
@ln-s neh timing as in you just said "js frontend" and right after I was bitching about just that :D
 
Ahhh
:D
Yeah I like a nice separation of concerns
so basically I don't have UX Karen bothering me
could you make it 3.1px to the leeeeeft
 
i wrote some JS last year for a payment system, 400 lines of pure JS, one file, imported in a <script /> tag, i don't get the new ecosystem at all.
 
xD come on
MPA instead of SPA if you want to separate in the frontend
so no big initial loads are to be had during first page load
Plus a CDN
 
8:08 PM
@ln-s Hey that's me! I'm a UX Karen!
 
xD
 
Gonna wear the label with pride now
Such a good name for it
 
We can always abbreviate it to UXK
 
oh I'm definitely calling you UX Karen next time you pixel-f on my stuff @Jeeves
 
@cmb it appears not. Just changing back to "HTTP/1.0" makes it work...I'll fire up wireshark......tomorrow.
@azjezz ha, you sound old. The cool thing about the new ecosystem is how easy it is to import libraries.....which is useful when the standard library doesn't contain things like leftpad....
 
8:14 PM
I will assume that by new ecosystem we are talking about a backend frontend approach I got lost a bit in that conversation
 
@Danack young body, old soul
@ln-s nuh, talking about npm, webpack .. etc
 
I weep for all the legitimate Karens who are stuck with the epithetical meaning of their name.
 
@Danack Ugh libraries
 
@Catija They all have it rightfully coming though. I am sure!
 
I wish people had a slightly higher threshold between "implement this myself" and "pull in a library with 25 dependencies"
 
8:17 PM
seeing as we're talking about JS....is there a way to tell dependabot that I'm running code on the browser not server...so any CVEs that allow users to manipulate data etc, just aren't relevant
 
Yeah that is also the case with frontend apps
 
@Danack IIRC it just uses npm and npm makes the same "mistake"
 
I will ask again since the channel is active now and maybhe someone can have a better answer
Is there a way / annotation / whatever in which I can indicate that a trait complies to a certain interface ?
now I'm just using editor fold and desc
 
this is part of the 400 lines of code, the equivalent library requires another 3 dependencies, and i really have no idea why. npmjs.com/package/clipboard-dom
 
The libraries do all kinds of backwards compatibility things
 
8:22 PM
Clip.swf('/swf/ZeroClipboard.swf');
swf ?
wow
 
the usage example is longer than my implementation! and i don't understand it!
 
Maybe you don't understand it because that library is supposed to work with older browser versions which required hacks such as the swf thing there in the example
when nowadays you can simply use the code you pasted above
zeroclipboard has been around since 200x
 
maybe, but another thing i don't care about is browser BC, if it doesn't work, just update your browser, and thankfully my employer back then agreed with me on that.
 
Well then this is a clear case in which you need a custom solution
 
@Jeeves I don't know any - one of my mom's friends is named Karen and I hear she's very kind. Regardless - I emailed you (assuming you are who you say 😏).
 
8:25 PM
instead of a library which handles an entire circus
@Catija You know who else is very kind? Psycopaths
 
I... don't think that's true.
 
@Catija :P
 
It is, one of the trait of a psycopath is "extremely charming"
 
Charming != kind
 
perks of living in a non-western country: no Karens
 
8:26 PM
@azjezz which is
 
I would assume you mean, no "Karens"... I'm certain the archetype does exist, though?
 
haha
it exists everywhere
 
brb finishing up my work day
 
@Catija they exist everywhere, i mean the name :p
@ln-s Tunisia
 
Yeah, which is why I put "Karens" in quotes. :P
 
8:27 PM
Ah tunisia I'm working with a tunisian guy
he cool
 
Oh, nice, where?

I don't really know many other Tunisian people in the community ( actually i only know of 3 lol )
 
germany
he hates it so far, so he is really feeling the spirit!
 
cool!

personally i never left Tunisia, i find it better to work remotely from here.
 
Makes sense
plus that exchange rate is favorable
I'm sure
 
Yea, it's better financially, i make enough money to move to Europe, but it's cheaper here, and i hate change :p
 
8:36 PM
Double plus
I prefer my country too
for the same reasons and for some other cultural reasons too
 
8:56 PM
ok good news everyone @Catija sorry for having you suffer through this with me, but I do not have access to the email address on my account anymore
Well "good" news
I was just able to boot into my old machine (which is still logged into SO), but I cannot change the address there either as it needs my old address
Also ohai @TimPost o/
 
user50049
o/
 
Been a while we had this many diamonds in here without us doing something wrong :D
I guess I can make a change to my profile to proof I have access to the account (like when people want to delete their account) if that helps in any way
 
@Jeeves you can't change the addr but you should be able to associate another SSO method
 
Wait
It sent the confirmation to my new address
I am on to something
 
we've known that for years
 
9:01 PM
:P
 
user50049
I am on to something too.
 
> The link you used is too old, please use the verify email screen again to re-verify
flip table
 
@Jeeves Considering the address, I'm surprised? But I'm glad you're finding a way around it - since you know the email address, you should at least be able to submit the contact form that requires the email address?
 
brb logging out of bot
 
9:04 PM
count down to @Ekin saying "ok now I can't get into either of them"
 
:-P
 
> I am on to something
 
@DaveRandom ... ?
 
My internet has been down today, working from a hotspot. Reminds me of dial up.
 
I'm mostly surprised he doesn't have access to the email for someone who keeps everything in password managers.
 
9:06 PM
@Catija they live together
 
Ah. That explains things.
 
My internet has been down today, working from a hotspot. Reminds me of dial up.
 
:-)
 
ALL MY JQUERY ANSWERS HAVE BEEN SAVED!
9
 
\o/ Welcome back @PeeHaa
 
9:07 PM
What a roller coaster of emotions
 
@Ekin oh wait is it a victim of that keepass database you lost like 6 years ago or sth?? @PeeHaa
 
It's one of the few things I did not have in keepass for whatever stupid reason
 
Well, not sure I did anything but I guess my work here is done? :P
 
Yeah totes @Catija. Thanks! <3
 
9:08 PM
@PeeHaa That... is a very unfortunate name for an app... though, for some reason, I expect it was intentional.
 
Yeah pretty sure it was :P
 
:D
 
Thanks @Jeeves buddy for allowing me to abuse you
 
Oh no, they fell for his tears and let him back in :(
 
Special reminder - Keep your emails updated so you don't get locked out of your account. ;)
 
9:10 PM
PeeHaa disconnected
@Catija Special reminder for a special person?
awwwthanks
 
...or just don't create a crapload of google account for no reason, also works
 
ok daverandom69@gmail.com
 
@PeeHaa Hey, you already solved the problem :P
 
:D
 
@PeeHaa taken, I had to have daverandom69__2021
 
9:12 PM
Whenever I think about you I think 2020 would be more appropriate
 
...beacuse of MD 20/20 presumably?
 
@Catija i used to have like 7 email accounts, but managed to squeeze everything in 1 account over the past 2 years or so, kept one email for public communication, and deleted the rest.
 
@DaveRandom yes, sure
 
the word "wine" is the best part
omfg they still make this stuff as well, I thought that horror was over drinksupermarket.com/aftershock-red-cinnamon-liqueur-70cl
 
My internet has been down today, working from a hotspot. Reminds me of dial up.
 
9:16 PM
@SalOrozco lol no kidding, epic double post
10 mins ago, by Sal Orozco
My internet has been down today, working from a hotspot. Reminds me of dial up.
 
it said that the message had not been sent
lol
so i hit retry
 
it relies on a round-trip POST/websocket message to verify, so if the websocket message goes missing that will happen on bitty connections
 
@StatikStasis look who's back! o/
 
I see.
 
@PeeHaa I've created a monster, coz nobody want's to see PeeHaa no more, they want Jeevesy, I'm chopped liver, well if you want Jeevesy this is what I'll give ya
 
9:26 PM
lol
 
9:37 PM
Setting up a message queue on an app I'm working on. Have no clue what I'm doing.
You guys know any good resources?
 
thanks
 
10:07 PM
\o
 
o/
 
Ohai @JoeWatkins
 
@JoeWatkins hey :-) your arrival has reminded me I have been meaning to ask you for a while - do you still use satellite internet, and how do you get on with it? My sister has just move to the middle of nowhere and looking into stuff, wondering about zoom/voip latency in particular
also I think "zoom" has become synonymous with "video call", at least in my (pretty large user-facing) world
 
I am still so confused why Zoom was doing so good
It's not good software by any metric and alternatives were already there
 
10:22 PM
they had the most stable/mature/feature-rich/free platform 12 months ago
gtalk was and still is flakey af, whatsapp has too low a user limit, and everything else either costs money, is shit or both
or no-one had heard of it 12 months ago, crucially
the screen sharing stuff and relatively high-quality video relay is the thing that sold it to "the people", as well
in fact I actually disagree that it's bad software, it generally works for me :-P
 
Even slack calls did all of the above
 
yes but that was already in a niche that blackballed it, much as they want it not to be
ditto Discord
they win because they were in the right place at the right time, but I don't hate it enough to have stopped using it yet, and at the end of the day ubiquity it a real strong selling point
see also: whatsapp/signal :-P
though the latest cryptofuck developments are distressing :-(
 
Whatsapp used to be fine though
 
literally the only reason I no longer endorse it as The Right Way™ is facebook
 
Yep
 
10:29 PM
from a technical standpoint it is the best thing at what it does
though it doesn't do what zoom does, to be clear
 
ok zoomer
 
whatsapp is basically p2p, zoom is more centralised and open+transient
more like "Room for X and Y" on here, but with video
also whatsapp is personal, zoom is "professional"
much as I hate that shit, it matters with this
given the choice, I would just use slack, ftr
but the real world doesn't work like that
and realistically my "professional" alternative is Teams, and I am not starting off on that rant again
 
@DaveRandom oh no, it was the worst piece of crap in the whole history of pieces of crap
 
cmb
"Nothing can stop a team. Work remotely with Microsoft Teams." :p
 
we use 4g now
 
10:35 PM
urgh
 
Zoom was already the de-facto standard for tele-business before the pandemic.
 
even though my sister lives <1km from a 5G mast in the town, there is a hill in the way that makes it 0 bars
 
<?php
$add = function($a, $b) {
    return $a + $b;
};

$addTen = $add(?, 10);

$printPrettyNumber =
    printf("PRETTY NUMBER IS: %d\n", ?);

$printPrettyNumber($addTen(32));
?>
@DaveRandom that sucks ... we have an external 4g antenna on a long pole, very high tech ...
it drops out a fair amount ... I've just got used too it ...
 
@MarkR I mean also this, but the default choice for personal use by "real people" is new
 
it's unlimited and 20mbps, which is good enough for netflix
 
10:36 PM
Don't suppose starlink available in your area soon?
Never heard of good satellite internet
 
@JoeWatkins that actually might not be out of the question I hadn't thought about it - is there a scientific way to figure out how well it will work without just waving a thing in the air?
it would need to be a big pole but maybe not impractically so
 
@DaveRandom Zoom got the kind of PR that most companies couldn't even dream of. A global pandemic leading to schools all looking for solutions, TV shows being done over zoom etc. No need to register to get someone into a meeting.
 
@MarkR I wonder if e.g. Hoover have similar circumstantial boosters
 
One of my clients did, it got a huge boost in the remote e-learning and virtual conferencing space.
The entire physical conference industry was forced to move virtual almost overnight
 
oh yeh we made shitloads of money out of lockdown it's insane
the 2 weeks before lockdown v1, like 12mth+2weeks ago, we had over £750K worth of hardware go through our office in people buying shit ready for remote working
mostly beefy servers for RDS farms and laptops
 
10:42 PM
I've lost track of how many people Digitell has hired in the past year
 
the last few days people were buying like alienware-esque laptops for remote workers for >£1000
(because of availability)
 
People I knew were buying whatever they could get their hands on at one point
yup
 
I have one RDS farm that went from 96 to 1094 logical CPUs in the last 12mths (yes I just looked it up :-P)
 
I had a fun day last week, I needed to do some bulk video rendering and spun up 1,000 CPUs on google cloud \o/ first time I've done that
 
oh btw @MarkR related, I bought a recond server off some guy in halifax the other day that I was really impressed with, decent price, dead professional and awesome stock, everything from 1U NAS to fully racked bades, shout me if you are ever in the market and I will dig them out (can't find details rn, was just sent on driver duty)
 
10:48 PM
@DaveRandom it's been so long since I read all about it, but my reading informed my decision on the kind of antenna to buy, so it's worth doing some reading probably ...
 
@DaveRandom Sure send them over. I keep umming and arring about buying off bargainhardware. I've got a pretty decent R730 spec'd out for about £1500 with the intent of running some pretty overkill testing, but i'm still not sure if I wan tto pull the trigger
 
I think I literally picked up an R730 the other day I might have the delivery note somewhere hang on
 
that was fun for a few hours ... someone mentioned this in here the other day ...
@IluTov it was you, with the complicated trampoline stuff ... this might be simpler, or more broken ... feel free to poke around .. also it's very unfinished (named args)
 
@MarkR ^
 
that looks pretty damn good. Any idea what the idle power draw would be?
 
10:52 PM
ctoservers.co.uk
not dug that far into it, power is not a problem in this rack
I have bought off them exactly once, but the whole experience was good enough that I am prepared to suggest they are worth looking into at least :-P
@JoeWatkins thanks, yeh I thought that would be largely the answer but then I remember you having to know stuff about satellites suddenly so just though I'd ask x
btw @JoeWatkins there is a pie in the sky job that might end up with me having to go to Madrid at some point, ftr if that happens I will be coming to visit for a few days whether you like it or not
 
I'd love that
 
I seriously doubt it will happen I haven't even made it to London to give @Girgias his free shit yet :-P
tho also I will happily come just for a holiday
(when that is a sane thing to do)
 
On the topic of servers, did I see mention of PHP potentially moving to some kind of CI/CD for building its releases? I'd love to eventually see a write-up of how that goes someday
 
old timers don't want to change the release process ...
something about lock in and ....
 
Lock in to what? It's a docker container
 
11:01 PM
silly, we use github, when we don't use github anymore, we'll find someone else, and they'll provide almost exactly the same thing as github ... there will be a way to release code in some sensible fashion ...
what's a docker container ?
 
What I would expect would be the easiest way to build releases. I don't see why it would need to be tied to any specific provider.
 
there is a docker container, but it's not necessary to use it, making a release should be as simple as making a release branch, running some scripts to generate stuff, tagging it, pushing the tag and sig to github and a couple of days later making an announcement ...
instead you have to do all that stuff, and then upload tarballs to this for releases, which is clearly and obviously going to get too big ... and for pre-releases upload to a downloads server, which is clearly and obviously going to get hacked at some point ...
it's a bit messy, but there's not really time to do anything about it before new release managers start with 8.1, maybe we can encourage them to improve the process
 
I'd be happy to donate some time and/or some coin to help automate things if a plan develops.
 
@PeeHaa my guess is the admin controls.....someone in an org can pay for it, and give access to other people quite easily. my impression is that other, better ones, don't do that bit as well.
 
@Danack I can also corroborate that. Their API for managing those accounts is also pretty solid.
 
11:18 PM
@DaveRandom and I still have a dev workstation with only 8 GB of RAM because all of my testing is done on a server >.< between PhpStorm and Chrome, it tends to get very slow
 
Did you ask them for moar ramz?
 
not yet, but I'm not sure it would be an accepted request
a dev who's been there at least a couple years longer than me was given a new workstation a few months back, he was given the same thing as me, 8 GB of RAM too
 
That'll be the base spec on those little optiplex
I just made a terrible but beneficial mistake... I made a cup of tea, went downstairs to get a kitkat and check my supper, forgot i'd made the tea, and brought a brand new mug up... and put it down next to the previous one... from 5 minutes earlier :S
 
dam
that sucks
 
11:33 PM
@PeeHaa OMG!!!! \o/
 
@Tiffany a single core on my "PC" is 1.6GHz... swings and roundabouts :-P
 
@DaveRandom Nor my friend's :p but I might also rent a car and try to visit parts of the UK in like May/June if I can
 
Welcome back, man! You were missed! Also Jeeves is broken, he's been saying all kinds of weird crap than usual. =P
7
@PeeHaa Hopefully you stored the PW in your password manager now.
 
@Girgias my apologies, but also you're getting free shit so I'll live with it :-P
 
@DaveRandom o/
 
11:35 PM
ftr all the stuff is still safe and well :-P
 
Haha good to know :p
 
@StatikStasis hey sexy
 
But if I do and you don't mind letting someone sleep on your floor (if safe obviously) I'll pick it up myself :p
Just need to check if I can rent a car while being 22
 
tbh "sleep on floor" is difficult because I live with my folks
 
11:36 PM
And with a EU driving license now that Brexit has happened
 
tho I can prob arrange free crash :-P
(non creepy)
@Girgias surely a UK driving license is still valid in EU??
 
I've got a French driving license lol
 
yeh but the reverse will be true
lorry drivers
 
Right
Let me just double check
 
I'm really very sure that will be true
my UK license has euro stars on it
all a license proves is that you have met an agreed standard, if that is not true I am going to walk into the sea immediately
 
11:39 PM
Yeah seems they remain valid until the age of 70
 
reasonable
 
Because the UK is actually sensible by doing health checks
 
OK the world is approximately sane, false alarm
 
Not like France :|
 
@Girgias yeh, except my ex's dad is 93 and has never had any form of competence or medical test, but it legally allowed to drive
luckily he is not a terrible driver, and also does not own a car
*not a terrible driver as of corfu in 2016
 
11:42 PM
I know, but tbh I'd wish health checks for driving licenses past a certain age would be normalized
 
I thought I had caught all the renames I needed along the way to keep them separate. Did I miss one?

I can also just update the PR to trash the extension entirely and yoink it's namespace. Let me know if I should do so.
 
I know it's contentious in France because it's a very rural country and you're removing the ability for people to do anything but some people clearly don't have the reaction time necessary anymore
 
yeh, I'm actually surprised it's as old as 70
 
My granny managed to hold a valid license up to 95yo
 
@Girgias tbf the UK approach to this problem is actually sensible, exempt the age group the will kick up a stink and make everyone else comply
 
11:44 PM
But decided against driving because of arthritis
It is very sensible :D
 
@Girgias it's normal in the US. I had to do a written driving test during my last license renewal (last year)
at least... normal in most states...
 
lol written??
computer hopefully??
 
yes
 
k
yeh we should have "rules of the road" refreshers
 
Bruh, a written exam? That's the worst part imho, it doesn't check your knowledge IMHO
At least the way how it's done in France
 
11:48 PM
some people are dicks but also some people just seem to not understand
 
I think the last time I did a written driving test was some time in my 20s, then when I went for my license at 17 (because I failed the driving test in high school at 16)
 
The amount of questions I had about situations in a tunnel in a country where most of the roads are flat is baffling
 
@Girgias this one checks like "what do you do if you see this sign" and it only shows the shape of the sign... but if you've driven frequently enough, the shape is all that's needed
 
cmb
@Crell I think your renames are good; it's more like PhD stumbles over the two identical classnames (auto-links to the wrong one, etc.) Maybe submit a separate PR to remove ext/weakref docs due to these clashes, and ask if anybody objects?
 
But then I've also driven on the Autobahn at 220km/h
 
11:49 PM
this past test had questions about marijuana storage in a car though, which was interesting
 
@cmb OK. New PR to execute the old one coming up.
 
there should definitely be some kind of filter for "do you think it is OK to cut in front of someone missing them by inches at 80mph"
 
That's funny lol
 
like "how should marijuana be stored while in a vehicle"
 
I mean, if there would be a reminded for people to use THEIR GOD DAMN INDICATOR I'd appreciate that
 
11:50 PM
"in a child-proof container, outside of range of the driver"
 
"do you think it is OK to to undertake people regardless of whether that are tracking the speed of the person in front"
 
@Girgias ESPECIALLY WHEN PASSING! AHHHHHHHHH
 
basically an "are you a c**t" test that is applied annually
 
amount of times I see people pass me without using a turn signal, I want to throw things at their vehicle
 
But ngl I'll dread driving on the M25
 
11:51 PM
I used to yell at my mom when she would be in a turn lane without her blinker... but she used to yell at me for not pressing on the brake soon enough when a light turned red or coming to a stop sign, or someone braking in front of me...
 
You can have 6 lanes, but everyone is going to be on the 5th one for reasons????
 
@Girgias M25 was designed by Crowley (Good Omens)
 
the M25 is fine, the north is so busy it's a constant jam and the south is largely 6 lanes of speeding tickets
 
@DaveRandom lol
 
Well that's my issue :')
 
11:53 PM
t's technically challenging on the junctions at the M1/40 and heathrow
 
@Girgias I find the design of roads in France way scarier than any UK motorway....
 
@Girgias set your speed at about 5-ish miles/kilometers over the speed limit, then set cruise control, regardless of how frequently you're braking... it has helped me with my speeding habit
it satisfies the desire to speed, and keeps me in a safe-ish range
 
@cmb Should kiill the whole weakref section, or just the weakmap part?
 
@Tiffany Ah I was refering to the northern bit being a jam, but yeah speed limiter is very useful, does make driving more boring tho which means more breaks usually, but less foot hurting
 
ahhh
 
11:55 PM
@Danack Yeah, I can agree with that, suppose I got used to it by basically diving over 10k km there
 
@Danack french roads are great between cities, there is nobody there abd the speed limits are only there because they have to put a number on it
 
@DaveRandom Yeah... about that... since they reduced it to 80kmh there are way more people somehow
 
cmb
@Crell I think it's best to remove the whole ext/weakref <book>.
 
french roads where there are people are batshit crazy though, I once got lost in le mans for well over 3 hours, the sat nav persistently lied to me
 
kk.
 
11:57 PM
@DaveRandom datetime issues
:P
 
I think mirror universe issues
 
Reminds me of Toulouse, where they changed the whole one way system near the capitole so you basically needed to relearn how to drive there completely
 
@DaveRandom except for the bits where they aren't. Near where my dad lives, there is a section of motorway that has a special dispension for ........tractors. As they didn't build enough bridges/underpasses, so farmers need to be able go along the motorway for a bit.
 
Wut
Where is that?
 
@Girgias the french really do love to keep being stereotypically... french
 
11:58 PM
@Danack yeah, that's common where I live too...
 
What did you expect about them :p
 
tractors tend to drive as close to the shoulder as possible, but people behind have to follow road rules, and can only pass when it's safe... which tends to cause frustration at tractors...
 
@Girgias the N158 south of Caen.
 
to be clear, I love the French, and France, with all of my heart
 
00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

« first day (3826 days earlier)      last day (1136 days later) »