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12:04 AM
@cmb it fatals on me :/ I'll provide a code sample in a moment
having to retype onto primary desktop
...I see what I'm doing wrong now
I get Internal libxml error returned
 
well that's something
 
it's not an issue with this class, I guess it's the other class... time to debug...
wow, reading some notes I had from three years ago, and it's stuff like "why didn't I know that..." but good way to see how far I've come
 
@cmb I deleted it when I realized the libxml error was caused by the other class I wrote
I think I have an inkling as to the cause but I need a break :P
The other class probably has too much domain-specific info that I don't feel comfortable sharing. I could probably abstract it enough if I take the time to do so but I need a break
 
@IluTov Done.
@bwoebi Yeah, they're all related. It basically comes down to how much the API admits the internal implementation. Although it could certainly subclass ReflectionConstant and still have a TARGET_CASE constant. I don't see why that would be invalid.
 
1:04 AM
I posted a question, it was well received by the community (upvoted), I got a great answer, solved all my issues, and then the moderators closed it. Should I... do something? Even if the question was bad (I still don't think it was) the answer was absolutely perfect. Seems a shame that only I should get to see this perfect answer.
From a purely selfish point of view, I should take my awesome answer and run. But I do feel like the community missed out on an epic solution to a real problem.
1
Q: I'm trying to write something that will fill out an Australia Post Declaration Form

Jonathon Philip ChambersI've got basic proficiency in PHP, JavaScript, html, and SQL. I also use Postman little a bit. I hope a solution to my problem can be found within those skills, but I'm willing to learn a new language if necessary. Using PHP, I've written myself a page of admin tools to be able to run my business...

 
Add JSON support in SolrClient::request ・ solr ・ #80547
 
Also, if I genuinely did something bad, I should probably take this as a learning opportunity to improve my question asking abilities.
 
1:36 AM
@JonathonPhilipChambers one problem is that is has too many words.....having lots of words that are not needed are...actually kind of annoying when someone is asking for help. Doing the work to reduce it to the simplest possible question is better than giving excess background detail.
 
@Danack I see.
I'll keep that in mind for my next question. But going to that level of edit on a question that already has the perfect answer... Would I be a complete asshole if I just walked away and got on with my life?
 
one problem with this site, is the reason why you couldn't find that info yourself, was that you didn't know (or at least didn't include in the question) that 'curl' is a standard bit of tech for doing this type of thing. And so, couldn't know that searching for 'php curl submit form' will very probably give you the info you need.
@JonathonPhilipChambers no, that's fine. It's not your job to solve stackoverflow's core problem; that it's not setup to support people who don't know, what they don't know.
 
Actually, it wouldn't have. I am already familiar with CURL. It's that specific form and deciphering the javascript to work out where it's submitting to and what it's submitting that I was having trouble with.
 
ok. but that means is still not a good fit for SO....as it's a 'please debug this particular problem I have' which are not a good fit for the site.
 
The solution I wanted to do, was <form><input hidden><input hidden><input hidden><input hidden><input hidden><input hidden><button></form>, but yeah, CURL would have worked also
Anyway, it was definitely a great answer. Writing an equally great question to match it seems like the right thing to do, but it would also take an hour of my time, which I don't really have to give.
I'd also want to write the question in such a way that I would have found it, searching for it. Not sure if I can do that.
 
1:46 AM
yeah.....that's the core of (one of) the problems with the site. As the number of questions and answers that are on it that are SEO friendly grows, that means the percentage of questions that are only going to help one person also grows.
 
I think giving people multiple options for solving my problem wasn't helping my case either. If I had only accepted one kind of solution to my problem, it would have been perfect for SO. But demanding one answer and one answer only... kind of makes me feel like an asshole.
 
If you want to see something 'amusing' check my answers on a topic I know about, and see exactly how many of them have 1 or fewer upvotes: stackoverflow.com/…
 
Definitely agree with the "core problem". The "core problem" got me an account ban for asking questions I could've easily googled if I already knew the answer at the time of asking.
Or worse, "I want to do X. I've tried it with this function, but it's not getting the results I want."

"Have you tried spelling that function correctly and putting a semicolon after calling it?"
 
@Danack and the ratio of low-quality questions being asked increases, because high-quality questions are rarely asked (due to all the existing content that's easy to find)
@JonathonPhilipChambers "I've tried it with this function" puts it above 75% of questions :P
 
Yeah, I got an account ban when I first used Stack Overflow. It's not from lack of trying. I've come to believe that an account ban is a right of passage for every self-taught developer. You just need to get banned, do your time, and think about where you went wrong.
I'm not even upset. I think the account ban was a critical part of my development. It was helpful to take those months off the site and reflect on my questions.
 
1:54 AM
the site has traditionally done a pretty bad job at communicating expectations automatically
 
@AndrasDeak well, all you need to do is get new users to read an hours worth of background about question and answer sites, before they ask the question they've been stuck on for a while. how hard could that be?
 
hehe
 
Oh, and I'd get snarky things like, "Well, didn't you read the tour?" "Yeah, every word of it." "But did you read this vague sentence in the middle of this big paragraph?" "Yes, that was a good sentence, I agree with that sentence." "Well? Do you think you followed it properly, and to the letter?" "Yes" "Well my interpretation of that sentence is that you didn't!!!"
 
@JonathonPhilipChambers people who answer questions are annoyed at seeing a constant stream of low quality questions (yours wasn't bad, just not a good fit for the site), so many of them are not in a good mood.
 
@Danack and there's quite a few plain jerks too, to be fair
 
1:58 AM
programmers? being assholes? I resemble that remark.
 
but yeah, it's mostly grumpy content curators
 
The real struggle is that people who genuinely want to improve their question answering come across as daring to question the judgement of the almighty moderators. Which is fair, because assholes who want to fight moderators at every turn ask the exact the exact same questions as someone who genuinely wants to learn. Mods have no way of knowing the two groups apart.
 
meta hounds and folks like those in SOCVR are typically friendly when you phrase it as "how can I improve?" rather than "y u downgrade"
 
I do feel a bit guilty, because if Stack Overflow didn't exist, and I had to pay $200 for the answer to that question, I'd pay it without hesitation. And here I am, just taking $200 value and running from asking a bad question for the site.
Yes, that's true. And the funny thing is, those two are exactly the same question. I expect a lot of people ask one when they really mean the other, both ways.
I've come to learn that, even though I might be fuming at my computer, phrasing my objection as "How can I improve?" gets me all the results I would've wanted from asking "y u downgrade"
 
@JonathonPhilipChambers and sometimes they really do just mean "if you can't answer get lost" and "don't waste my time" (very common comments on soon-to-be-closed questions)
 
2:03 AM
@JonathonPhilipChambers asking "what's the name for this?" is also sometimes good.
 
@JonathonPhilipChambers obligxkcd: Constructive
 
@JonathonPhilipChambers SO pretty much came about because of Experts Exchange, which has a coincidental domain name snafu...
 
"the one with the hyphen"
 
I try to answer questions, but most are well above my skill. Though I do remember once someone had some objects they wanted evenly distributed across the page. Easy enough, I explained the math, then used the values of that math to write a snippet of how to get the results. "Yeah, but that's for distributing 6 objects. I've got 7 objects."
You're fucking kidding me? Okay, fine, here's the version for 7 objects.
"Thanks for your help. Could you help me with this other thing now?"
Just give me the green fucking tick already!!!
 
@JonathonPhilipChambers oblig meta: exit strategies for chameleon questions
yet another problem solved by the ctrl+w shortcut ;)
 
2:08 AM
Yeah, I don't mind solving problems that came up because of my solution, but if you had the problem is pre-existing, write a new question.
 
I've seen askers try to ping random users in comments who'd helped them on earlier questions. Fortunately that's not how pings work.
 
A lot of the newer members genuinely believe we're getting a salary from PHP to be customer service for them, and walk them through basic instructions.
When I pointed out that I'm only doing this for a few worthless reputation points, they were shocked and had no idea.
 
Ask them to pinpoint that fact here :D
my quality of life has increased greatly since I stopped wanting to help people beyond what's reasonable
 
When I end up getting really snarky, I sometimes feel I've come full circle. Like, I'm now the assholes I first met when I joined up with the site.
I try to keep in mind that this is a community that's given me more value than I've given to it, and that keeps me humble.
 
And all this under 400 rep, kudos. It takes most people 3000 and close votes to reach that state ;)
 
2:13 AM
I remember thinking "right, time to build my rep. It's the right thing to do" so I start answering questions, get downvoted. "I have spent three hours building my rep, and I now have less rep than when I started."
 
That's no small feat considering that a downvote is -2 rep and an upvote is +10
 
Yeah, but if I get 3 down votes and no up votes...
 
I guess those downvotes were more about the question than your answers
 
Well, there goes my hours of rep building
Still, I get it. I'm not yet at the skill level where I have much to contribute. So I only build rep by writing my problems as clear-ish questions.
And there is a certain level of "If you're not 100% sure at the answer, don't guess it."
 
One of the reasons why I tend to proofread questions, it's easy enough for me and it's an easy +2 rep. But it requires finding questions that are good enough quality and need linguistic improvement
72 of my rep is from successful edits
 
2:18 AM
And as much as I complain about the flaws of this site, if the site developers came to me and said, "We've got a million dollars in development time to implement a solution to any problem you like. What should we solve and how should we solve it?" I'd have to admit, I don't even have the skills to successfully identify a problem with the site.
A lot of the issues are just inherent to humanity, not the website.
Where does the other 500+ rep come from Tiff?
 
@JonathonPhilipChambers 1. Contradictory signals to newbies, 2. Inadequate moderation tooling (got better), 3. Obsoletion is unhandled
 
Some successful questions/answers
 
(Through my "SO is a knowledge repository" goggles)
 
Actually, million dollar budget, commission a video tour with paid actors asking bad questions and being scolded by a charismatic narrator.
 
Does it make a big difference if specifiy true or false whie using json_decode ?
 
2:25 AM
@Rick do you want to deal with an associative array or an object?
Though I've been told that the object syntax is frustrating
 
I know I get an associative array and object in each way.
 
@Rick do you mean "which is better/easier to work with from json_decode? Associative array or object?"
 
Yes. I don't know much about the object syntax.
 
Different return type sounds like a big difference :P
 
Well, yep, I definitely goofed that one:
> ext/spl/spl_array.c:2145:2: runtime error: member access within null pointer of type 'const zval' (aka 'const struct _zval_struct')
 
2:29 AM
Current project I'm working on has me intimately familiar with json_decode, and I will admit that working with the associative array seems easier most of the time, if only for the bazillion array_* functions
I'm far from an expert though. Just personal experience with one project.
I'm basically a junior developer pretending to be mid-level so my opinion most of the time can be taken with a grain of salt
 
@Tiffany That's how most mid-levels get there, so you're right on track. :-)
I generally also favor assoc array for json_decode, for consistency. That way I don't have to think about which sigil to use when.
 
2:56 AM
ok thanks.
 
@Crell because the reflection inheritance says it is a constant and attributes say they aren't? Wouldn't that be wildly inconsistent?
 
@bwoebi Technically the full parallelism would be for TARGET_CONSTANT and TARGET_CASE to both work on enum cases.
 
@Crell But why I found a post of you suggesting not using associative arrays steemit.com/php/@crell/… ..?
 
1) Please use the PeakD version of that article. :-) (Steemit has turned into a steeming pile.)

2) Yes, in favor of properly structured classes. When reading from JSON, that's not an option. You have to read to either an assoc array or a stdclass object, at least initially. And assoc arrays *are* superior to stdclass objects.

Ideally you'll then convert that assoc array to a proper value object in your domain and throw away the assoc array.
Dinner time!
 
 
2 hours later…
5:18 AM
This is intentionally pretty minimal:
final class ForwardArrayIterator
    implements \Countable, \Iterator
{
    public function __construct(array $array) {}

    public function count(): int {}
    public function rewind(): void {}
    public function valid(): bool {}

    /** @return mixed */
    public function key() {}

    /** @return mixed */
    public function current() {}

    public function next(): void {}
}
 
Jpv
Hi Guys, Happy Holidays. Quick question:
Im writing a parent class with a static method :: boot($active = true) which has a default attribute. However, when i call this on the extended class, $active returns an empty string
 
If you can think of a method that really makes sense, let me know. For instance, what do you think of toArray()? /cc @Crell @Sara @NikiC
 
Jpv
public static function boot($wp_action_active = true){

echo '<pre>';
var_dump($wp_action_active);
echo '</pre>';
if($wp_action_active === true && method_exists(get_called_class(), 'wp_action')){

/**
* If we have a wp_action() method; we will auto hook this to 'wp'. This is likely for static content
*/
add_action('wp', [get_called_class(), 'wp_action']);

echo 'we are right here';
} else {

echo ' we are below here';
return get_called_class()::initialize();
}
}
it returns string(0) ""
 
Jpv
5:42 AM
NVM!! I figured it.. is wordpress add_action... it passes an empty string attribute by default..
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
6:08 AM
Good morning.
 
6:38 AM
 
7:08 AM
@Crell yes exactly
 
7:26 AM
morns
 
 
2 hours later…
9:09 AM
Morning 😊
Guys after compile and run the debugger of phpsrc the breakpoint seems not aligned with the source how I do? I try to fix another issue 🤣, branch 8.0.0
 
10:12 AM
@Tpojka I would love to see their take on Ayn Rand
@BruceStackOverFlow sounds like your symbols don't match your build for some reason, maybe make clean and build it again
 
@BruceStackOverFlow Try what @DaveRandom suggested. Also, some lines don't produce instructions and will thus never trigger a breakpoint. Also make sure to do ./configure --enable-debug (although I guess if you didn't you wouldn't have debug symbols to begin with).
 
@DaveRandom She seems appropriate for good night reading. :P
 
10:30 AM
in another life she would have been eva braun
although also I only have a passing knowledge of (and interest in) literature of that nature
 
All Just done, make clean and configure it's with debug ... mmm I search something, os Mac
 
 
1 hour later…
11:37 AM
@Danack lol lets hope not D:
 
 
1 hour later…
1:03 PM
Morning all!
 
1:25 PM
mornin room
 
1:39 PM
o/
 
\o
 
@LeviMorrison precisely
 
2:06 PM
Reading through make.wordpress.org/core/2020/08/24/… ... if they get a schedule that will be huge
Even more so if they can agree to limit it to something sane like 5 years
 
I mean... having read that whole thread again yesterday... doesn't seem likely
 
My read was a good 80%+ of people seemed in favour of a predictable schedule. If those people have any say in the process I haven't got the foggiest
 
At times it feels like the people in charge of WP don't understand that they can force hosting providers to take care of shit, because currently there isn't really an incentive for them to make any effort
@MarkR From my understanding they don't, and the two people who are in charge are against it
 
Aye, if you've got as big a stick to swing as WP does, swing it for the better good.
Well that's disappointing... then again I guess if you're in charge of a huge ecosystem that gives you a lot of power, there's little incentive to do something that might reduce your reach
How's things for you anyway? Did you do manage to do your last border hop before tier 4 and the travel ban kicked in.
 
Yup, am back in France since last Thursday, so managed to escape lol
 
2:18 PM
@MarkR The people in charge want usage to fall below 5% (IIRC, exact number may have been different) before dropping it.
 
Dropping PHP 5 (just to clarify)
 
I think personally a fixed, rolling schedule is a better idea, though maybe 5 years is too short for WordPress.
 
Like plenty of people there said, why would people upgrade if they didn't have to. Most people will always take the course of least resistance.
I'd be willing to bet that if WP dropped 5.x support, Godaddy would have a solution to upgrading to 7.x within a couple of weeks rather than risking the lost business.
 
@NikiC I wrote a basic ForwardArrayIterator here: github.com/php/php-src/compare/master...morrisonlevi:spl/…. It's missing serialization atm; what is the preferred way to do this for internal classes for 8.1?
The normal serialization is fine; it's actually un-serialization that needs to update some internal state.
 
3:00 PM
if ($dom->nodeValue = $value) <- would that work how I think it would? That is, if the property assignment is successful, it's true. Though, thinking about it I really don't think it would work
DOMDocument nodeValue property
 
At a high level, the assignment operator returns the right-hand side.
It's basically equivalent to:
$dom->nodeValue = $value;
if ($value)
 
Thanks
 
@Tiffany however, do not do that, it should be pointed out :-P
that is a really fast way to build a bug
I will accept if (false !== $foo = expr()) as long as expr() is trivial
 
@LeviMorrison @Tiffany careful with DOM, the properites are not real, but similar to magic get and set
 
3:15 PM
Good Morning everyone
 
ohai
 
I rewrote it to do the assignment then wrote it to check the node value but I think I over engineered it...
I feel uncomfortable assuming that the assignment was successful
 
@DaveRandom It's not really inherently different than using any other non-bool condition in an if. As you pointed out you can also prepend null !== (or whatever is fitting) to make it a boolean. The big reason I like it is because it shows you visually that you shouldn't use the given value outside the if statement (not that PHP prevents you as we don't have block scoping).
 
@IluTov it's a fast way to create bugs because of humans, from a technical PoV it's fine
but eventually someone will come along as think "oh there's a missing equals sign"
 
probably unnecessary...
$dom->nodeValue = $value;
if ($dom->nodeValue === $value) {
    echo "success!";
    return true;
}
echo "FAIL";
return false;
 
3:19 PM
so yeh, I want a yoda comparison if you are doing inline assignments
personally
$dom->nodeValue = $value;
if ($dom->nodeValue === $value) {
read that again.
:-P
 
unless you're pointing out the fact that I probably overengineered it, I don't see it
 
$a = 1;
if ($a === 1) {
 
I realize what I am doing
yes
so get rid of the conditional and I can safely assume assignment took place
 
if an assignment of a string failed you got bigger fish to fry
but as I just said on whatsapp and you presumably haven't seen yet, if you are not confident about the behaviour of nodeValue (which does have a bit of fucky behaviour) then just explicitly instantiate a text node and insert it into the dom
it can circumvent some text conversion/escaping oddities and can sometimes make for more obvious code, depends what you are doing tho
 
3:53 PM
o/ @DaveRandom
 
ohai
 
 
1 hour later…
5:11 PM
Hey guys, I have asked question and was hoping that someone could help me out here, really lost on that one..
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/65423041/remove-item-from-woocommerce-minicart-using-ajax
 
5:48 PM
@DaveRandom Yoda condition ftw. Is there other way, btw? @Tiffany set $value to constant and yoda condition will be strong enough to point you what is wrong.
 
@Tpojka you can do if (($v = expr()) === false) but nah
or you can spilt it onto multiple lines, which 99% of the time you prob should
maybe even 100% but I don't mind it if it's readable enough
 
Just saying if (CONST = expr()) {} where constant is actually some $value™. Knowing when and why.
 
tbh this problem only really comes up with messy APIs anyway, things that have an unpredictably valid return value
or things that do too much (like select())
 
I write yc all the time so I never face this kind of unforced errors. constants on the left side and assignment will never fyu.
if (true = $isEndOfWorldNearAllowed()) {} <- this can never pass compile time.
 
6:05 PM
Reading yoda conditions always fuck with my brain
 
But saves worlds. :P
 
Not really though
Fuckups like that should never pass tests
 
I love a good if (false === $fp = fopen(...)) { /* explode */ }
12 mins ago, by DaveRandom
tbh this problem only really comes up with messy APIs anyway, things that have an unpredictably valid return value
 
@DaveRandom I love a nice APi instead
@DaveRandom yes dat
 
right, but I can't fix the API :-P
 
6:07 PM
@DaveRandom But yes, that is also YC.
 
@DaveRandom You can, but you don't want to :P
 
no I literally can't, imagine trying to wrangle people into agreement about a new filesystem api
because you couldn't just replace fopen
 
cmb
@DaveRandom but that doesn't do what is desired, according to php.net/manual/en/language.operators.precedence.php :p
 
I'm technically capable of writing the code though I suppose, I'll give you that
@cmb yeh I realised that was a bad example, tbh the main place I use it is select()
places that may return false and 0, basically
 
cmb
it works as it should; it's just the operator precedence table is ... well, not quite right
 
6:09 PM
please god tell me there isn't anywhere that may also return null or ''
 
cmb
nope, that's not the problem; === has higher precendence than =, but assignment is somewhat special in the parser
 
I know for 100% definite that false !== $var = expr() functions as expected
I have done it many many many times and relied on it working like that, it definitely does I promise
 
@cmb it's not "special", just not all values are valid lhs
 
@DaveRandom Wouldn't see him again?
 
6:36 PM
> Invisible man: 0/10 wouldn't see again
?
I feel like there's a better construction of that joke
and I'm very sure it's been made enough times that it still wouldn't be funny
youtube.com/watch?v=nud2TQNahaU the only Christmas song I actually like in its own right
 
6:57 PM
@DaveRandom My English skills should be polished better.
 
@Tpojka I mean than my own construction of it :-P your English is a million times better than my <any language other than English>
 
@DaveRandom Humor is what connect us. :D
Btw, Happy Festivus (who ever celebrates it)!
 
It even has a google doodlemathingy
 
7:18 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
8:23 PM
@LeviMorrison Not sure I fully grok the context?
 
ArrayIterator basically always duplicates the array, which is rather contrarian to the goals of an iterator.
So I'm making a new one, for now spelled Spl\ForwardArrayIterator that is intentionally a simple iterator which does not duplicate the original array. The API may be too minimalistic though, so looking for methods that would make sense. Perhaps toArray() since it is O(1) instead of O(n).
 
Is that contrary to the goals of an iterator? If you're taking an array and wrapping it, do you want to be fiddling with the original array's internal cursor?
 
No, I use my own HashPosition.
It does not touch the IAP.
Duplicating a thing just to iterate over it is a pretty harsh memory penalty. Copy-on-write is much nicer, which is what Spl\ForwardArrayIterator does.
Here's my work-in-progress pull request: github.com/php/php-src/pull/6535.
 
So it's a more memory efficient ArrayIterator? That's the scope?
 
8:45 PM
The scope includes that as a goal, at the least.
If it's going to duplicate the thing, there isn't any point; use ArrayObject or ArrayIterator (but probably the former).
 
9:12 PM
What a week...
 
I concur buddy
 
========DIFF========
001+ Segmentation fault (core dumped)
001- ===DONE===
002+
003+ Termsig=11
========DONE========
FAIL Try to instantiate all classes without arguments [Zend/tests/instantiate_all_classes.phpt]
Well, segmentation fault is not good.
 
Generally not.
 
/hides employment contract from SIGSEGVcorp yes I agree
 
@LeviMorrison i had this myself a few days ago on the new attribute classes, the ctor doesnt handle the case where nothing is passed
probably you defined the first argument as required, but you dont handle the case where thats not happening
 
9:28 PM
ZEND_PARSE_PARAMETERS_START(1, 1)
        Z_PARAM_ARRAY(array)
ZEND_PARSE_PARAMETERS_END();
Is that not sufficient?
Or is it that the dtor fires on the object but it's not in a valid state?
Seems to be something like the latter; if I change the create_obj handler to initialize the properties to empty state then it works.
 
10:08 PM
Does anyone have any more comment on my RFC (wiki.php.net/rfc/max_execution_wall_time)? Is it sensible to put it on vote a few days after Christmas?
 
I'm refactoring something in PDO and I'm hitting segfaults in the shutdown sequence
And I have no idea why
Also only for MySQL (and PostgreSQL but it's less broken)
 
10:35 PM
@MateKocsis I've been meaning to ask why is "Adding a set_time_limit() counterpart is out of scope of the current RFC." ?
(other than maybe it's just not needed.)
 
@Danack Exactly because it's not needed :) Or better to say, I wasn't sure if anyone wants it, so I excluded it for simplicity. Do you miss it?
And are we happy with the suggested ini name?
 
wondering if this is going to come back to bite me
don't entirely trust them to not blindly run it, and they are no longer answering :-S
 
cmb
maybe they have no working computer anymore? :p
 
that's what worries me, because the context of that throw-away facetious joke was an esx host which runs several desktop hosts in an rdp env :-S
though also I'm 99.9% certain the guy doesn't have access to any auth contexts that can do any real damage
that 0.1% is making me nervous though :-P
worst case I just need to build another hyper-v host but I could do without it on Christmas eve :-P
 
cmb
IMHO nobody who executes that command line should have privileges to execute it. :)
 
10:50 PM
yeh it's basically the windows equivalent of rm -rf / except even worse because it goes directly to the data that is really going to fuck you up instead of starting at volume root :-P
 
--no-preserve-reallyimportantbits
 
tbf though at least windows doesn't come out the box with anything as dangerous as dd
 
cmb
Anyhow, maybe ask whether the succeeded in freeing disk space, and recommend that they might try cleanmgr otherwise (or some better recommendation).
 
@DaveRandom I did discover windows has a built in command line util to convert MBR to GPT last week, that was pretty helpful.
 
I've just realised that they will have rebooted the gateway and DCs so won't have any internet access atm, so I'm less concerned now, prob just waiting on a reboot
(there is no mob signal at all where they are)
@cmb I'm assuming it will be a log that hasn't been rotated tbh, first thing I suggested was treesize
it'll either be that or a stupidly large update cache that needs purging
standard windows stuff, in other words :-P
 
cmb
10:55 PM
treesize free has licensing issue for business usage :(
Windows should have something like that built-in.
 
I paid for it like a decade ago
so I don't feel bad about using it commercially, morally I am fine I think
 
cmb
ah, fine :)
 
I'm not about stealing software, but occasionally I will loosen licenses to fit my needs if they are excessively restrictive :-P
 
windirstat looks to be pretty much the same kind of utility
 
basically if I was the dev of a piece of software and I would be fine with <x>, then I don't mind doing <x>
@MarkR yeh that is also decent but it's not as good at being portable
the shiny graphical stuff is quite memory hungry during generation, and when you have a machine that has no space left, memory hungry is not usually a good thing :-P
I also have some ps scripts on my usb but ridiculously treesize is sometimes cheaper to run than psh :-P
 
ThW
11:03 PM
Hoi
 
you know @cmb you made me realise I have had enough use out of it that they prob deserve another £35 by now :-P
 
But that shiny graphical stuff <3 ... honestly windirstat has been responsible for my professional life flashing before my eyes on more than one occasion. Like when our database read replica went down and the binary logs pilled up until the disk was full... RIP production DB
 
....why would you not have a log auto-purge job, sorry? :-P how fast were they filling up???
 
About half a GB of binary logs every 7 minutes I think it was
 
like I used to manage a DB with a footprint in the hundreds of GB+hundreds writes/sec and it would still take easily 6mths to generate an ldb big enough to cause problems :-P
fucking hell wtf were you doing???
sounds like you may have had somewhat excessive indexing perhaps?
other than that I cannot explain that unless you are cloudflare
Mark "cloudflare" R?
 
11:07 PM
Writing logging data for thousands of users' media streams every second.
 
ah, so rdbms abuse then :-P
 
ThW
blizzards logs should be impressive as well...
 
Pretty much :P But the thing was the binary logs would build up pretty damn quick, so setting a time-based log deletion was problematic, instead we had a script which ran hourly that connected to the master and slaves and checked if everything was caught up, then deleted the binary logs on master for everything before that point.
 
btw @MarkR my main thing with treesize is that I can have a portable exe on a pen drive which works with 0 bytes free on C: and <100MB RAM, whereas windirstat borks if you have no ram and no swap left at all
 
One of the slaves froze up and its replication thread wasn't processing, so the task didn't clear any logs... eventually, boom.
 
11:11 PM
@MarkR have you heard of these new things called file systems? I hear they are pretty good for logging stuff
(jk obv :-P)
but seriously... tools for jobs...
 
@DaveRandom 12 different nodes all writing to a central DB for immediate analysis / real time reporting. It's done differently now, all the data is collected directly within swoole processes on each node, then the analysis process fetches it via HTTP, merges it all together, then writes only the resulting analysis metrics out each cycle.
I did originally try having it written to redis but it was unacceptable latency on newer versions
 
why this
https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=80499
it's related to xml-package the problem isn't with number_format ?
 
11:33 PM
Yeah? It is classified as an XML bug in the tracker
 
Ok, I asked because I would like to work on it, but first I need to understand well the problem...
 
well, I'm out.
@MarkR sure, and tbh I trust you to do things in an approximately sensible way anyway :-P it just sounded like a queue in a relational db - still does - which is uncool but I'd be lying if I said I had never done it
realistically I will probably do it again one day :-P
 
Fortunately I don't even have to deal with the DB infrastructure anymore \o/ I just let google cloud sql handle it
 
oh right well abuse away then, not your problem any more \o/
also ftr postgres subscribe/notify eliminates more or less all the problems of using rdbms as queue, basically turns it into a heap with triggers, which is usually what you actually want anyway
gets exciting when you have client side concurrency but concurrency should be exciting :-P
 
@MateKocsis just seems weird not to have it. Though also, I'm kind of confused why I've never encountered this as a problem, as I have used set_time_limit for background task runners. The names fine for me. Btw what's the performance impact like?
if any.
 
11:48 PM
@DaveRandom Trying to exit Vim? :P
 
@DaveRandom Interesting. I've not had the opportunity/reason to look at postgres yet. I do a fair bit of db abuse mind, my background task scheduler / queue is built into the main DB rather than passing it off to Rabbit.
 
@Sara imo, the intent is a lot clearer with immutable/init-only, as that's a pretty clear concept, whereas having stuff like #[LockedProperty(writers: ['__construct', 'cloneWithAdd'])] would need explaining of why it's like that. And be open to being misunderstood by juniors (aka me when I forget why the property needed to be immutable).
Also, having to check in two places for code reviews (where that annotation is updated, and the code inside the method, to check that immutabilityness is being messed with) would be annoying.
 
@MarkR imho postgres is objectively "the best" rdbms, but to some extent that is in the same way as lisp is objectively "the best" programming language - it might be true but the technical barrier for entry is incredibly high for learning how to use the parts which make that the case
i.e. it's awesome but not for use by people who don't know what they are doing
outside PHP, honestly my favourite rdbms is SQL server
for PHP, usually pg because PHP+SQL Server+portability is just not really a thing
 
I did try SQL server once upon a time, but the faff around doing what in MySQL would be "LIMIT by x, y" turned me off
 
(unless that has changed by now?)
@MarkR so a) postgres has limit and b) the reason SQL server doesn't do that is because it's a really bad idea
:-P
but I do know what you mean
 
11:58 PM
My need for pagination begs to differ :P
 
yeh you are supposed to omit the start of the set at the protocol level with t-sql
and then just read however many rows you want and close the cursor
but PHP doesn't implement it anywhere other than sqlsrv afaik, possibly not even there
and that is long dead I think
 

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