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21:00
@Dharman yes
yeh I immediately realised that after I said it
@DaveRandom Yeah, I can imagine that getting JIT into PHP is his personal war (hopefully, this expression makes sense in English). And I also really hope that he's doing ok :)
@MateKocsis agreed, his emails don't read like they were written by a man with a crazed look of a serial killer so I think we are/he is probably good :-P
on a point of interest, I would probably use the term "albatross" over "personal war"
which is a reference to "the rhyme of the ancient mariner" and definitely won't make sense when translated
it's a reference to the fact that sailors believe the albatross (a type of bird) to be lucky, and in the story a guy kills one and metphorically wears it round his neck for the rest of his life
basically a description of something that's much larger/more difficult than you thought, but once you started there's no going back
@DaveRandom It came to my mind that he had a few weeks of vacation according to one of his PR comments, so then there should be some work-life balance ^^
maybe we should ban him from internals for 2 weeks when 8.0.0 is released
enforced holiday :-P
21:12
i) White whale.
fair
equally untranslatable though :-P
user1804599
Speaking of strict_types = 1. I always enable it even though I use Psalm with all the most strict options. I wonder if it is still useful.
Yes :D And I'll also ban myself for a short time after RC1 is released. It became a bit overwhelming. And then also @NikiC is freed from doing a lot of reviews.
holy shit @rightfold, hi, how are you doing?
not seen you for like 3 years or sth
user1804599
I’m doing quite well indeed.
21:13
ii) for anyone who needs to brush up on their victorian literature, as unlikely as it seems, Iron Maiden have a good abridge version of the tale about albatrosses
(might just be because timing)
user1804599
Well I gave up my PHP job three years ago so I slack less here since then.
@rightfold afaik there's no material cost to it, may as well have shit blow up in your face when something terminally unexpected happens (imho)
user1804599
Yeah I guess I’ll just keep adding it to every file.
@Danack never seen this before, going to check it out tomorrow
user1804599
21:15
If Psalm wasn’t company-backed I’d Patreon the shit out of it.
....listen to the whole album then. It's the final track.....and an epic way to end an album.
@rightfold I set it in all my phpstorm/idea templates a long time ago and don't even think about it any more, I always regarded it as "the PHP should always have been" anyway
@rightfold In non strict mode internal functions accept null even if the type is not nullable
user1804599
Oh that’s interesting. Psalm does check nulls though.
@rightfold What are you doing nowadays?
user1804599
21:16
I do Python :( and Haskell :) for a fast growing e-commerce startup.
user1804599
Also de facto DBA.
Which part is being done in Haskell?
py isn't :-(, it's :-| at worst :-P
user1804599
@NikiC Our customers provide us with product feeds and product feed transformation rules. Our main Haskell code base is a program that takes these and produces the transformed product feed. Our other Haskell code base is a job scheduler.
Heh, that sounds closer to the real world than I expect Haskell code to be :P
user1804599
21:19
We have two blog posts with some details about how we use Haskell: substring search and memory management. (Don’t mind the clickbait title. It’s clickbait.)
@NikiC lol
user1804599
On occasion we rewrite small subroutines in Haskell for performance reasons. Turns out product feeds can get quite big (many gigabytes). But we haven’t written blog posts about those yet so I won’t disclose details.
@NikiC Sounds like a state machine to me -- perfect for Haskell!
when you say "product feed" do you mean basically an RSS-esque feed of all of a company's products?
user1804599
It’s really just a function [Product] -> [Rule] -> [Product]. Except the function is much more complicated because of caching and logging and metrics and you know the drill.
user1804599
21:23
Yes, webshop items. They can be turned into ads and exported to Google, Amazon etc.
user1804599
It’s really interesting to work on high-performance batch processing problem in Haskell.
yeh I can imagine (sort of, the thought of anything related to e-commerce provokes a stabbing pain behind the eyes)
How to convert this into an exception? php_error_docref(NULL, E_WARNING, "Function cannot be used with MYSQL_USE_RESULT")
user1804599
@DaveRandom E-commerce is a mess, but I only really deal with the job scheduling and batch processing, which is not e-commerce-specific.
I feel you're looking at stuff which already has a PR, namely mine
21:25
I have tried and failed to properly understand haskell a few times, I've always felt like a real-world problem is what's required but never found one that makes sense
@Dharman ^
Why was Zend/configure.ac and similar dropped in PHP 7.4? Anyone know? @NikiC?
@Girgias Yeah, but you haven't done that part yet and I am trying to learn
@rightfold yeh sure, no issue with that, it was imagining what the end user has to do to keep the feed in order that made me shudder :-P
21:27
@Dharman Look at the PR then, best way, but you only got 1 days to PR it as everything will be frozen at RC1
but not all errors have been reclassified yet
my experience of e-commerce (even as back-end dev/3rd line support) was mostly telling people "you have duplicate products in your database" for 8 hours a day
user1804599
@DaveRandom Most amusing thing I’ve seen was SKUs were encoded in scientific notation.
user1804599
Ah yes, product 6.135e+7.
The git log says it was removed in e1f101d79840e171f1dcfe17f8ae7a3d0be7e89d.
>
Removed files used to provide building Zend engine separately using
Autoconf and Automake:
cd Zend && ./buildconf && ./configure
21:28
oh and also a guy who didn't seem to understand how decimal works, who put some dress making pins on amazon for £240,000 instead of £24
user1804599
Well, it only takes one drunk rich guy.
@rightfold omfg have you ever had to interpret datetimes in microsoft's batshit insane floating point format?
user1804599
No, and I don’t want to.
@Dharman Some of them can't
@rightfold indeed, at one point it was the most expensive product on amazon, that accolade probably attracts idiots
user1804599
21:31
#IntoxicateElonMusk
@rightfold it's not entirely insane (left is days since 01/01/1900, right is fraction of a day) but omfg is that hard to do if you can't properly cast bits of memory
like 50 ops vs 1 CPU instruction
user1804599
Oh sounds like binary coded decimal.
user1804599
There surely are libraries for working with binary coded decimals.
sort of, except base 86400
kind of
you can end up in some real weird situations when one end interprets times as singles and the other as doubles
like both ends assert the same time, but one second out
cause absolute havoc with kerberos etc
user1804599
Luckily I don’t have to deal with horrible input formats.
user1804599
21:38
I want to write something in PHP.
give me a head up if you ever decide to quit :-P
@rightfold sweet. If you could write a lib for the salesforce API that isn't full of global state which prevents me from authenticating as multiple users concurrently that'd be sweet
on my desk by 5.30 tomorrow kthxbye
:-P
user1804599
I have given up on mutable globals years ago.
user1804599
Before that, I had given up on mutable globals except loggers even more years ago.
@rightfold it's … not … thaaaaat bad
I must admit that loggers are still a thing where I write dirty (lazy) code sometimes
user1804599
21:41
It’s really convenient to be able to pass in a different logger to some code in different circumstances.
Log::warn is just so much less fucking about than $this->logger->warn though :-/
user1804599
Your functions need to take and pass more arguments, but I have also given up on perceiving that as a problem ever since I started using type checkers.
@DaveRandom tbf, that's something where dark magic macros would be fine … warn!("something"); evaluating to $this->logger->warn("something");
I just found a stash of ~15 rubber bands ideal for firing at shit, target suggestions welcome
already fired one out of the velux and it was quite satisfying
user1804599
You can make a trait that exposes $this->warn if you mix it in.
21:45
@DaveRandom Am I a bad person for thinking about your junk? when you suggest shit…
user1804599
As a private method, that calls $this->logger->warn.
@bwoebi in that context, yes. In any other context, no
@rightfoldand how does the trait get access to logger?
haha
Use LoggerTrait; ->warn is equivalent to Logger::warn imho
21:47
@beberlei I have dreamed about many many many ways to automagically cascade ctors into traits, never come up with a satisfactory approach :-/
You have a hard dependency to a class
also trait-local private members
@rightfold $this->warn vs. $this->logger->warn is not that big of a win
just warn!() however…
user1804599
@beberlei Like a so: 3v4l.org/raKCT
@beberlei sorry to ask you this at this hour, but can you check the DOM Warning to Error PR again soonish? :)
user1804599
21:48
Ugh, 3v4l obscures the output with the dark mode and live preview checkboxes.
user1804599
Ah, it’s because I have a small browser window.
@beberlei that is not in and of itself a problem though, it just means they arent suitable for public APIs, it doesn't make the useless
@rightfold meh you still have to configure every thing then to get a logger
user1804599
Yes, and with PHP 8 that will be a breeze!
user1804599
public function __construct(private Logger $logger) {} :drool:
21:49
@bwoebi sorry wtf is that ! doing?
@Girgiascan do tomorrow, have a few uninterrupted hours. Ping again pls
Will do then, thanks :D
@DaveRandom designating a macro, see rust
ah right yeh, vaguely familiar with that
@DaveRandom its short for Logger::gesIndtance() lol
user1804599
21:51
You can even go Full Enterprise Xtreme and use the decorator pattern to add logging to your component. Writing even more boilerplate, to impress your manager with even more Lines Of Code™!
@rightfold E too much code for a log message
user1804599
Glad we don’t work on the same team then, saves on conflict during code review. :)
@beberlei in fact @bwoebi this is very true, PHP already has this in the form of conditionally defined bare functions :-P
@DaveRandom tell me more, curios
@rightfold seen a fair share of teams dancing around these things all the time, not shipping
if ($someConditionDeterminingLogger) {
    function warn() { /* stuff */ }
} else {
    function warn() { /* different stuff */ }
}
surely that's functionally identical?
admittedly not redefinable or scope-local
21:56
Going to bed soon, n8 everyone
inhabit
Good night :)
user1804599
Goodbye friend.
that has a slightly uncomfortable finality to it
user1804599
I’ve been lacking in inspiration lately.
user1804599
21:59
Want to type code on my keyboard while listening to music like I did pre-corona.
user1804599
Last spare time project of reasonable size I was working on was a COBOL compiler but it became boring so I abandoned it as always.
22:30
COBOL, wow
That's some ancient magic, iirc
22:41
@Girgias Ok, I replaced php_error_docref(NULL, E_WARNING, "Function cannot be used with MYSQL_USE_RESULT"); with zend_throw_error(NULL, "Function cannot be used in MYSQLI_USE_RESULT mode");
Is this ok?
Maybe? It seems reasonable at least
22:56
@Girgias Is it possible to add PR on top of your PR?
@Dharman You can just have it separate from mine, it shouldn't be conflicting
23:12
sup
23:31
Yahallo
23:47
@rightfold try drinking a whole bunch of corona?
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