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12:12 AM
Could you imagine, AI written in PHP...
I know there's machine learning libraries in PHP
But a full-blown AI, I almost feel bad for it
 
I more meant that at some point AI will effect the programming field too.
 
Like the kind of AI that's advertised as writing code?
 
Either we'll all be out of jobs, or to a lesser extent, someone might make an AI that automatically updates everyones php 5.4 code to 9.0 \o/
 
Rector comes pretty close, though it's not an AI
But I think we're at least a century out before programmers are obsolete, if we don't obliterate ourselves before then
 
The joke I know to be true is... AI's wont be able to program because that would mean clients would have to be able to spec something out properly
 
12:23 AM
Yarp
 
1:22 AM
@MarkR the AI shall template rough drafts of what's (under)specified and allow the client to add more input (in natural, non-technical language obviously) until it does what he wants - with minimal input from his side
 
@bwoebi In my experience clients rarely even know what they want
 
@MarkR or - if there is too little info, ask properly formulated questions to guide him :-)
and autogenerate a few proposals which could match what he said up until now
With sufficient magic … eih, intelligence everything will work
 
we're all just dreaming of the computer in Star Trek
I guess particularly the holodeck
 
1:54 AM
Hey, I get to finish work before 7am today \o/ awesome. Goodnight all
 
2:15 AM
@cmb Feel free to edit it :) Maté as been doing most of the keeping up :D
 
 
2 hours later…
Wes
4:43 AM
morning folks
 
5:04 AM
Hello
 
Any one have idea how to read raw XML data into PHP from postman, POST method => RAW => type 'XML/APPLICATION'
 
5:23 AM
@Dhruv What have you tried so far?
For reading raw post data in PHP we use php://stdin stream
SOrry I was wrong in this case php://input see php.net/manual/en/wrappers.php.php#wrappers.php.input
 
@brzuchal
before I read this file from upload like below code.

$xml = simplexml_load_file($_FILES['doc']['tmp_name']);
$xml->registerXPathNamespace('soap-env', 'http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/');
$result = $xml->xpath('//soap-env:Body');
$result = json_decode(json_encode($result) , true);
And $result successfully return xml format into object or array.
 
@Dhruv Well if you wanna use SimpleXML you can use simplexml_load_string php.net/manual/en/function.simplexml-load-string.php
and simply pass file_get_contents('php://input'), right?
but first I'd check if simplecml_load_file() works with filewrappers by simply passing "php://input" as an argument instead of filename
 
But the problem is I don't know how to get this xml files from postman,
For example if you use simple json or form-data then you can use $_POST['usename'] or $request['username'], but here I have in POSTAMAN => RAW => 'XML/APPLICATION' instead of json.
 
There is nothing like a simple json which automatically populates $_POST
This works only for url encoded form data
1st try replacing your $xml statement loading SimpleXML by $xml = simplexml_load_file('php://input');
if it won't work then go with $xml = simplexml_load_string(file_get_contents('php://input'));
 
@brzuchal can you please visit this question and see the answer.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47295675/how-do-i-post-xml-data-to-a-webservice-with-postman
 
5:35 AM
@Dhruv What's wrong with it?
 
My question is how to read this XML file in to the PHP using $_POST and $request is there any other parameter to get RAW data
 
Not via $_POST
What is your $request variable type?
@Dhruv ^^?
 
That's the problem I am confuse here what is variable when I useXML format file.
 
@Dhruv You're telling me you don't know what is the type of $request variable you've mentioned? How can I help you then?
 
For example if my format is json instead of XML and the argument is following
{
"status": "processing"
}
Then I use $request['status'] or $_POST['status'] but when I have XML file then how to fetch data using $request or $_POST
 
5:47 AM
What is $request variable man? Where did it come from?
PHP has no built in feature to populate JSON data into $_POST nor has a built in $request variable.
It looks like you're using a framework which does that for you, since I don't know if that's Symfony, Larevil or Diactoros etc. can't help you
 
@brzuchal This is my postman collection
https://www.getpostman.com/collections/a319563c85df37f4c3f1
 
Use the functions mentioned uearlier to load it via "php://input" instead of filename or if it won't work fetch the XML contents by using file_get_contents("php://input") ans pass that to simplexml_load_stirng()
@Dhruv It looks like you're using Wordpress since the url is https://site.com/wp-json/api/v1/create since I have no idea about Wordpress cant say much than in previous sentence which should just do the job
 
Yes I am using wordpress but this is API, the flow is same if you use PHP or wordpress I think this is not matter, My concern is just how to fetch this from the postman.
 
@Dhruv I already answered that question twice
 
6:03 AM
@brzuchal Yes but I am confuse at where can I find my "$string" $xml = simplexml_load_string($string); $string contains the xml file right but my question is how can I find my XML using $request or $_POST, You get it my point?that's why I give my post man collection.
 
@Dhruv Also answered that twice
 
 
3 hours later…
9:12 AM
Is this an intentional BC break in PHP 8? 3v4l.org/rod9n
 
@NikiC Cool, thanks, should have checked that first :)
 
9:54 AM
@cmb Uh, what's up with imagettfbbox and imageftbbox?
It's the same function, but one has an optional extra parameter and the other doesn't ... why is this not one function with an optional parameter?
Would it make sense to just alias these functions?
 
they used to be backed by a different library, ttf by truetype and ft by freetype, I think ?
 
10:56 AM
@bwoebi github.com/php/php-src/compare/… After our last conversation it wasn't quite clear to me that "${}" already accepts arbitrary expressions, just not for string interpolation but variable lookup by name. Do you still think it's a good idea to re-use ${}? It would also become inconsistent with ${} outside of strings.
 
@IluTov I don't think it's a good idea to reuse ${}
It is a good idea to remove it though :)
 
cmb
@NikiC because simplicity would confuse GD users :p
 
I think we're screwed in that regard. JavaScript solved this by introducing backticks. Obviously we can't do that but even if we could we had double quotes and heredoc that just wouldn't support proper string interpolation... Any other syntax will be hugely breaking ($(), \{}, \()).
@NikiC Yeah it's really senseless. Most uses are just ${foo} but then why not just write $foo or {$foo}.
 
11:11 AM
It looks like the train with attributes revote bikeshedding won't stop soon :(
Although there is not much of such voices from the voters
 
cmb
11:24 AM
@salathe, is there a way to make the website error redirects also work for the internal search?
 
There's always a way. We're programmers. :P
It's been a while, but I think there's another list somewhere to add terms to.
 
/me really dislikes that you can't delete open files on Windows
 
cmb
11:51 AM
@Derick PHP or other languages (if the latter, FILE_SHARE_DELETE is helpful); still not quite the same as *nix
 
PHP
 
cmb
@salathe ah, thanks! That would be helpful.
@Derick FILE_SHARE_DELETE is set for all files opened by PHP (except maybe for some extensions), so deleting should work (the files are not removed right away from the filesystem, though; only when the last handle to them is closed).
 
The file is opened by Xdebug in C, and I want to delete it in the same process from PHP land :-)
 
cmb
Oh, Windows Defender just found a backdoor in Xdebug code!
@Derick how do you open the file?
 
ret = fopen(tmp_fname, mode);
 
cmb
12:03 PM
@NikiC, on Windows the newly added mysqli_incomplete_initialization.phpt is failing with a different Warning; just suppress the warning at all, or just use placeholders for warning code and message?
 
I do more clever things with locking files for Linux in the #if part of that if/else define
 
@cmb probably suppress
it's not really relevant
 
cmb
@Derick try php_win32_ioutil_open() (defined in win32/ioutil.h) instead; you can use _fdopen() to get the FILE*
 
12:21 PM
I'll have a look, cheers
 
cmb
@NikiC but no output with MySQL 5.6 (can repro locally with MySQL 8.0) :/
 
@cmb not sure what you mean
 
cmb
there is neither a warning nor an error with MySQL 5.6 (on Windows)
 
12:56 PM
@cmb Maybe the __construct argument needs to be more obviously invalid in some way...
 
cmb
1:33 PM
 
@cmb Thanks
 
cmb
yw
 
2:02 PM
@Tiffany Of course not. We used a series of reflectors to focus cosmic rays on storage to knock electrons loose.
 
@Sara ismeta
 
2:21 PM
meta-meta-meta-meta
Aaaaaaaaaaand we're back.
((sorry, that will make no sense to you unless you're an acid head named Rainbow I knew back in San Francisco, and I'm pretty sure you're still somewhere near San Louis))
Man... the Sunnyvale Carrows at 6am..... good times.
I miss LSD.
 
Once upon a time, I used to work at the Fry's Electronics in Manhattan Beach in their software department. We had a weekly (or monthly, I forget now...) company-wide video conference for all of the software departments, and part of the meeting was showing who had the most sales for that period. Sunnyvale was almost always in the top 5, and our shitty little store was always near the bottom. I held hidden resentment towards Sunnyvale :P
 
lol
 
Our store was the smallest, so naturally we'd be near the bottom
 
Fry's electronics grew up shopping for computer parts. At the one in Anaheim and Montebello.
 
It was where employees were assigned who they had no legal reason to fire, but they could "silently" get rid of by promoting them to supervisor and assigning them to our store (at least that was the rumor for my direct supervisor)
Anaheim was a nice store, I was jealous of their store
 
2:33 PM
Yeah very big.
 
It was always clean and easy to find stuff for POTO... Manhattan Beach had so much top stock and stuff hidden in the most random places, it was a scavenger hunt
 
Sometimes it felt like that at the Anaheim one. If you went there enough times you knew where everything was.
 
My department manager worked there since the store opened up and he knew where pretty much everything was... he'd find this random box hidden behind a huge case in the back stock, and there was one item he needed from that box, lol
I can't type properly from my phone
 
Are they closing some of them down?
 
I dunno, I stopped paying attention to Fry's when I left over ten years ago
 
2:49 PM
@NikiC I noticed you switched between a signal handler and a thread-based implementation for github.com/nikic/sample_prof a few times. What were the main motivations for eventually switching off of the signal handler model?
 
@Tiffany Fry's Sunnyvale also always had the pushiest sales people. Real fuck heads.
 
@Tiffany That took me far too long to get
 
I went to a Fry's in Naperville recently (south of O'Hare airport) and the place was like a fucking ghost town. Half the shelves were empty and there were like.... four customers in the entire (warehouse sized) place.
 
It was SUPER SAD.
 
2:52 PM
@Sara! 0/ It's been so long. :'( <3
 
SAMMMMMMAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!
We need a new ElePHPant video!
 
Ciao!
 
OMG I totally agree! :D
 
Come to Chicago, we can trade viruses and make movies.
 
Haha! I can't tell you how tempting that sounds right now. Like for real.
 
2:54 PM
Seven can compliment the newest ElePHPant on their lovely attributes.
"Yeah, but I'm thinking of changing them..."
((yes yes, I know... inside jokes don't land))
 
Haha! The script just writes itself. This has got to be a thing.
 
ALL BENCHMARKS ARE LIES!!!!!
 
I'm lol'ing so hard right now! Such good times. <3
 
Did you ever see the SunshinePHP depression commercial?
 
I didn't. Do you haz link?
 
2:58 PM
I run into a sound issue and took it down (then never re-posted). Let me see what I can do.
 
@Sara WTB subtitles :(
I guess the auto-generated ones are good enough-ish
 
@Tiffany I should get on that. I have ample time.
Woof. Havevn't turned this laptop on since March, and evidently it's trackpad has gone AWOl.
@SammyK Actually... you're a bit of a musician, right?
Can I convince you to make a little bit of background music for this "lost elephpant movie"?
@Tiffany Are you hearing impaired? Or just reminding me to be considerate of others?
 
3:20 PM
@Sara slightly hearing impaired... I have trouble making out what people say at times and this -- autism.org/auditory-processing-asd
 
Good to know!
 
if the spoken word is not clear, (e.g. accent or changing voice), I have difficulty understanding... coupled with auditory processing difficulty, it makes for fun times :D (read: a very confused Tiffany)
 
The end of the video I put up will probably give you trouble at the end because I deliberately speak fast. If I can get a final version I'm happy with I'll caption it.
 
I use captioning on almost everything I watch, even American TV shows and movies :/
 
So, this is WAY BETTER with background music, but I can't seem to find a decent track that's licensed for reuse. :( youtube.com/watch?v=1wTX5buXG1M
 
3:25 PM
I could understand that (without captions) :D
 
((which also means don't share this link as I'll probably take it down to be replaced with a better version once I find music))
I figured even if the words were garbled the intent would be clear enough. :D
 
I guess I will remove my thumbs-up
 
Thumbs up is fine.
Just saying this is up here so I can convince literally anyone with an ounce of music ability to make 40 seconds worth of noise.
 
I can do music for the low low price of a flight and a ticket :P
 
I literally ordered a piano keyboard and will do some jank if all else fails.
@PeeHaa My budget is about the price of an average pint of beer.
Maybe even a slightly above average pint.
 
3:28 PM
:-)
What kind of music / noise are you looking for?
And when do you need it?
 
@Sara I only have access to a classical guitar at the moment which I'm very new at playing but I'd be happy to pluck something out on my lunch break today. :D
 
Some sad music up until the break, then on "good news" part, shift into a happy, uplifty everything is great strum
 
anonymous class instanceof error in cli ・ *General Issues ・ #79976
 
Doesn't need to be complex.
 
@Sara i feel your post is mixed signals about either continuing or restarting the vote, sorry to put this on your, but i suppose at this point its better if you make the decision :-)
 
3:38 PM
@NikiC we can deprecate it first, then reuse it in a couple years? at least this pattern has easy discoverability for a lexer so you can have automated seamless migration
@Sara Speaking fast is okay to an extent … but as soon as the loudness of the background music approaches the faintest sound of what's spoken, it gets exponentially harder to understand
I mean, a common hearing test is checking at how many decibels difference between a static background noise and spoken words you still understand about 50%.
For well-hearing people that's typically a negative amount like + 6dB (i.e. the noise can be quite a bit louder than the words) … people with hearing aids have a disadvantage of 5-10 dB on that test at least
 
3:58 PM
👋
 
Also, the main issue with fast speaking is that people tend to speak less clearly - but some people can speak fast and clearly. Then it's not an issue :-)
 
Thanks @salathe - Routing to prototype.php.net has transferred over to me.
 
4:36 PM
Well, anyway. I CC'd the Super ElePHPant Brothers video at least. This CC editor is gross though.
 
@bwoebi I don't like reusing the ${} syntax because of the strong var-var implication it has
 
@NikiC I think that's more due to your intrinsic knowledge of PHP - most people do definitely not know var-var syntax, and those who do mostly know $$foo, but not the arbitrary expression ${} syntax
I'd bet the backtick op is more known than ${} for varvar use - and backticks are also quite niche
I do understand your dislike, but from a practical standpoint I see little argument in favor
the alternative would be probably pulling a c# and do $"string with {arbitraryExpr()}"
 
4:52 PM
@Sara <3 thanks
 
I can do noise
show me something you want it to sound like
 
@NikiC $<> or \<> would be other alternatives that would probably less breaking (as <> are taken literal in regular expressions).
What do you think of those? They're not as pretty for sure.
@bwoebi That also crossed my mind after I sent the e-mail. Wouldn't look great for heredoc though.
Also not great with that approach is that then we have strings with no interpolation (''), strings with some interpolation ("", heretoc) and strings with full interpolation ($"", $<<<FOO...FOO`).
 
5:08 PM
@IluTov A previous proposal used #{}
 
@NikiC That would work too, although $<> is by far the least common on grep.app.
 
5:29 PM
Nobody wants @:, why would we include it now?
 
@IluTov Almost no one wanted <<>> in the last vote, but it's included.
 
5:41 PM
I would like %{} for string interpolation. But I guess it breaks too much.
 
@gharlan Also not bad actually. I don't think that's very common.
"\#", should that result in "#" or "\#"?
 
I found things like "WHERE foo LIKE %{$bar}%" ;)
 
"\$" is "$" even though dollar alone is taken literally.
@gharlan Welp, breaking vulnerable sql code seems like a feature to me :P
 
But it would not break, behavior would just change to "Like $bar%"
 
@gharlan Yeah I know, it was a joke :P Either way, no matter what syntax we chose the way it breaks will be the same.
 
5:47 PM
And for attributes I suggest the T_ROSE token:
@>-ORM\Id
@>-ORM\Column(...)
private int $id;
 
So the inline attribute examples on PHP 7 are pretty damning of the #[] syntax.
 
This is always going to be the problem with not having versions in files.
 
Eh, I don't care about those examples, really. I suspect in practice that they will be multi-line...
 
If it causes a problem for these libraries, don't use the forward compatibility then? It's likely that libraries who care about that will need to take care of multiple PHP versions anyway, and can then code around this. They'll very likely have a great test suite too.
 
IMO we should deprecate # in its entirety in 8.1
 
5:56 PM
@MarkR no.
 
If we're going to start using #[ then # at the start of a line is no longer an all encompassing rule, and # can be substituted out perfectly with //
 
Why would we use #[ ?
 
Because it's currently leading the attributes vote by a large margin
 
@MarkR Likely because the current RFC left out some important info.
 
ugh
 
6:01 PM
So if it does end up that way e.g. rust style, deprecate # in 8.1 and remove it entirely in 9
 
"Hey let's start every new feature with # in future, it'll be backwards compatible" … … …
 
Good afternoon everyone. To save BASE64 image in MySQL, what "data type" should I use to create the table?
 
what a bullshit
 
string, I think
 
@Tiago TEXT
or if it's larger, MEDIUMTEXT, or BLOB if you feel like handling the binary
 
6:03 PM
@MarkR Thank you. I thought I would have to use some other special ... lol
 
@MarkR I want to have a view how the vote looks like after eliminating <<>> and @@
 
@bwoebi Yeah it's a bad argument. Just like almost every other argument made in this debate :/ I still prefer #[] just because @ currently has other uses, whereas # is pretty uncommon in PHP code. I'd even say most people don't know that # also is a comment.
 
@bwoebi Well they're the two that get eliminated first so /cc @Derick can you provide the results after the first 2 eliminations?
 
@IluTov Well, # is my favorite way how to comment code - I use # to comment individual code lines out, and // for actual text-comments
 
@MarkR The current result is that #[] is elected in the 3rd round with one surplus vote. gist.github.com/theodorejb/30257f5ab5e3fb14d9f01c94d194e3cf
 
6:07 PM
because # being just a single key and it is distinguishable from text comments
 
@bwoebi Really? Commenting seems extremely standardized in PHP, /** */ for documentation and // for comments.
 
@IluTov I only use /* for multi-row comments
or block commenting of actual code
and sometimes for phpstorm annotations because well… they need it
 
@MarkR Not easily, but I can run the current state
 
@TheodoreBrown Why is there a quota if there's only two options left?
 
Anyone know if there is a way to detect if an ext is loaded through dl()?
 
6:12 PM
@bwoebi That's how the STV system Derick is using works.
 
An extension that does MINIT/MSHUTDOWN stuff needs to disable that kind of thing with dl().
 
I quota makes no sense with only 2 options.
 
If the quota wasn't reached @[] would be eliminated and #[] elected in the fourth round with a big surplus.
 
FWIW, I don't know which version of my script you're using, but Ive improved it significantly.
 
@Derick When only one candidate can be elected the quota is 50%+1
@Derick I wrote my own script from scratch. :)
It's probably not as good as yours but it works.
 
6:20 PM
suspicious that it uses the same names and layout for things...
And do you scrape the website? Because I don't.
 
@Derick I partially copied the format from your script output you shared during the last RFC vote.
@Derick Yes, it scrapes the website.
 
Is there not an already built program somewhere that can just pipe the data into?
By the way module->type has MODULE_PERSISTENT or MODULE_TEMPORARY. Regular loading sets persistent; dl loading sets temporary.
 
@LeviMorrison Nope, only paid for online solutions is what I could find.
 
@Derick I've been deliberately not making a strong statement on the current vote because I want your take. What are your thoughts on, and I quote "WHAAAAAAA THE RULESSSSSSSS!"
 
6:40 PM
I have typed up an email, but I'm called away for dinner and I haven't spell checked yet.
 
6:51 PM
No worries
 
I updated the RFC with details on the BC breaks and forward compatibility
 
Can the discussion arguments about whether an ending symbol is consistent, and whether attribute grouping is a pro or con also be added? gist.github.com/theodorejb/2d39eb6e13159fc749f728900edfd0d2
 
7:08 PM
I'm not too keen. I don't want a 40 page essay.
 
Could always just link to a page with other arguments on if it would help civility and the general peace
 
It's only several short paragraphs...
 
7:22 PM
"Is the lack of an ending symbol inconsistent?" only talks really about using it for parameters, which I don't think is the main use case, and is only part of the whole thing. So I called it biased reasoning.
"Is attribute grouping a pro or a con?" is arguing about coding standards, which should not be in the scope of an RFC. Coding standards are for projects to decide.
"Is the benefit of forward compatibility worth it?" is something Benjamin should already have added.
 
7:36 PM
@Derick For the ending symbol consistency it talks about parameters and methods. I should add a class example, too, since classes also have modifiers like "final".
 
Compatibily with locale ・ Arrays related ・ #79977
 
I don't want to be biased, but to present an alternate view to the inconsistency claim in the RFC, which is more a matter of opinion than a fact.
 
7:58 PM
@NikiC Should "\#{$foo}" result in #{$foo} or #foo?
Right now, \ always just escapes the next character ("\{$foo}" prints {foo}) but otherwise escaping will be a pain in the ass.
 
@IluTov don't you write that "{\$foo}" currently
 
@bwoebi Yes, the two are different. \ were only to escape the # you'd have to escape both: "\#{\$foo}"
Also just realized $<> and \<> are not possible because enter_nesting in the lexer do not support <> because </> are binary op symbols.
 
Gosh, am I the only one tired here of these stupid nonsense Theodore and Derick debates :p
Let's just delay the attributes
 
@moliata No no let's not.
 
It was sarcasm but ok :)
 
These issues won't just magically be resolved if we delay.
@moliata Haha ok, well it was a genuine suggestion from many people.
 
@IluTov ah, got it
 
8:24 PM
We just need to restart the vote after the discussion period is over and the RFC is done being updated so we can have confidence in the outcome.
 
Keep voting until everyone else is so tired of voting and you're the only one left? :P
 
@TheodoreBrown Are you really gonna make everybody vote again? The outcome won't be any different.
 
@IluTov I don't know if the outcome will be different. All I know now is the votes don't reflect the contents of the RFC.
@MarkR I'm honestly tired of voting myself. :p But I think it's only fair to voters to wait for the discussion period to end and the RFC to contain all the important pros and cons before asking them to make a decision.
 
Hm... if \#{} escapes both the $ and the { then there's no way to do something like `"\#{$foo->bar()}" => #1. Not sure if that matters.
Well, actually you could do "\##{$foo->bar()}" of course.
 
IMO it should not escape both
 
8:34 PM
See, should have deprecated backticks, could use them a few years down the line :P
 
@MarkR I don't know, then we still couldn't use string interpolation in heredoc (which have other benefits like stripping leading whitespace).
 
I'm not sure of the big benefits to embedding expressions in strings, it seems like a law of the universe that any attempts to make niche uses cases easier always end up making everything else more complex
 
@MarkR What's worse is supporting a subset of expressions and never being really sure what subset.
Also, not all arbitrary expressions are complex. E.g. embedding constants
 
I mean, to my mind if it's low value, confusing and different in every place, the optimal solution is just delete the feature entirely or cut it down to the bare bones or least common denominator.
 
@MarkR Well, #{} would be the only type of string interpolation that's perfectly simple and reasonable :)
 
8:44 PM
Consistent and easily understood beats out fancy and supporting niche cases almost every time IMO.
 
@IluTov ಠ_ಠ
 
@salathe Haha don't agree? :P
 
@IluTov You're making silly statements, I make silly faces. :-)
 
@salathe Lol, care to elaborate? :)
 
@IluTov Not really, I'd rather just make silly faces.
 
8:49 PM
@salathe Haha ^^ Well I stand by my statement. "$foo", "{$foo}" and "${foo}" all have weird properties.
 
String interpolation should be #{} and only done inside of strings prefixed with u e.g. u"Hello, #{any valid expr goes here, but hopefully it evaluates to a string}!"
I think that's definitely inarguable, and the best way to do it.
 
lol I can hear the collective sigh from Python people
 
Does it sound something like: SssssssSsssSSSSssss
 
Something like that :-)
 
@LeviMorrison If we didn't already differentiate between '' and "" in terms of interpolation I'd agree.
 
9:11 PM
Does anyone know if there's a way to un-delete a recently deleted draft email in Gmail?
 
@salathe Hm, I've never seen such a feature...
 
A cursory Google search suggests it's not possible. Ach, never mind.
It's probably for the best anyway, given the draft's contents. :-D
 
@salathe Attribute syntax? I deleted a draft myself today xD
 
@IluTov Ha, yes. The email was something along the lines of "can we just revoke the post-feature-freeze allowance for this RFC since it's clear several parties are still interested in working together [ha!] and provide RFC document(s) that aren't utter trash. we should be focusing on a billion other things for 8.0 not this shit show. Let's all shake hands and agree to have some good document(s) in a presentable state after the release, plz k thx." But in many more words and a lot nicer.
 
If this process has taught us anything helpful though... it's that STV is well received, I just think we need a better plugin for it
 
9:30 PM
Yeah, drag-and-drop then into your preferred order...
 
9:41 PM
@salathe Seems reasonable xD
 
10:13 PM
I probably have a couple tweets to delete :S
If only edit existed, I could just strikethrough the content
 

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