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2:53 AM
Victoriafof ・ *General Issues ・ #79573
 
3:22 AM
> functionality bundled in a PHAR file
 
 
2 hours later…
5:10 AM
Thanks @salathe! Access works. Now off to the next steps in this challenge ;-)
 
 
4 hours later…
8:45 AM
@salathe I think I would really like to fix the editor preview, but well, I have no access on that machine to check where the setup is broken :-/
Is it possible for you to give that access or would you rather not?
 
9:23 AM
@bwoebi I don't have access to that box either, you should email systems@ (cc me so I can push if no-one replies, and bjori and rasmus as they're most likely to help) to request access. If folks are willing and able to spend some time on infrastructure stuff, I'll never stand in their way! :-)
 
@salathe php infra is really a bit of a mess who has access where
How comes?
 
there must be other open-source projects that have these issues. Is there be a group of people that have access to everything?
 
I don't know, it has been like this as long as I've been around the project.
 
the alternative might be to move towards saas platforms such as GH/GL - it'd remove the need for sysadmins
 
@Sjon It's still sort of a sysadmin-ish task to wire things together and build them so that the SaaS platform knows what to do
At least I experienced that only very very few devs dared ever to change anything not so minor in these building scripts etc.
There are far too few people thinking "I don't know what to do, so I'll figure it out"
 
9:41 AM
@Andrea Do you mean extensions in general or just preceding the standard library? I actually think userland could come up with good solutions. And then we have an entire year to build a proper API.
 
@bwoebi Is that really worth the effort now that we are not that far away from moving everything to git? Or are you as pessimistic as I am? 😁
 
Quick question, please... Does anyone know where the (PHP) function exit() is defined? Searching all around the codebase and haven't found it.
 
@AlexD It's not a real function, it's an instruction: github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/Zend/zend_compile.c#L7929
 
@IluTov Wow. No wonder I couldn't find it.
Interesting. Wonder why it was implemented that way.
 
Various things are instructions, isset is one too IIRC
 
9:52 AM
isset makes sense
 
Well just above you have print() :p
 
I don't think isset would work as a function, since the argument is interpreted in a special way
 
10:06 AM
@SebastianBergmann I lost 12 reputation (-10 unupvote, -2 dowvnote) yesterday because of things you did in PHPUnit 3.8. What's your excuse? ;)
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2357001/phpunit-mock-objects-and-static-methods/2357141#comment109071505_2357141
 
@AlexD arguably, that's a deficiency in the engine. isset is clearly useful. Why is it not possible to write a userland version that does the equivalent?
 
@Danack I'm not sure I want userland functions to be able to detect if a variable exists outside of its scope
 
@Girgias Is that a gut reaction to something that could be misused, or is that a good reason for justifying why some stuff can only be programmed in C code?
 
You could do it in userland with something like a macro
@Danack I think it's more "how do you handle silencing errors (eg. property/ array key does not exist) at call time)?"
 
Sep 6 '15 at 22:27, by Danack
> If you try to solve a hard problem, the question is not whether you will use a powerful enough language, but whether you will (a) use a powerful language, (b) write a de facto interpreter for one, or (c) yourself become a human compiler for one. We see this already begining to happen in the Python example, where we are in effect simulating the code that a compiler would generate to implement a lexical variable.
I could do the entire computation by hand if I really wanted to. Ha! Take that stupid computers!
 
10:21 AM
@Danack IMHO a function should only care about the value it's given, not where/how those values are defined.
What happens when you pass a literal to this function?
There is no variable to check
The only weird case maybe are references because, well, it expects something were it can write, but if you want to check if that has already a value assigned you can just check that it's different to null
 
@Girgias Same as happens for isset? but who cares.......either isset is useful, but it's a shame that things like that can only be done in internals code, or isset is bullshit and shouldn't be in the language.
 
I never used isset with a literal
I don't even know what it returns lol
 
Cannot use isset() on the result of an expression (you can use "null !== expression" instead) in /in/Q19nI on line 3
apparently.
also, my first time .... 😳
 
Yeah, that is truly engine magic lol
 
To be clear, I'm not saying that people should be writing code like that. What I'm saying is that having some stuff that people use frequently, only be possible through C code means that other stuff that could be useful isn't possible to write.
 
10:27 AM
I'm not sure I like that push to userlandify all the things. That's going to make php closer to javascript where every project under the sun is going to use the same packages and we'll end up with things like the left-pad fiasco and one liner packages and stuff like that
 
@pmmaga I don't have the energy to discuss it fully now, but I disagree. The speed at which Javascript libraries have evolved is amazing, and puts PHP standard library to shame. Yeah, that comes at a trade-off, but everything is a tradeoff.
@IluTov I stand corrected.
 
If we're talking "PHP core code that doesn't need to be C", wouldn't it be easier to start with something like PDO, which is basically just an interface to other DB code?
 
Erf
PDO does some weird stuff
 
@AllenJB well, yeah. github.com/amphp/mysql
 
10:42 AM
@IluTov what is that @ for in line 4? … also, you know that this has the side effect of initializing the variable with null in the caller scope, yes?
 
let's add support for <<SuppressError>> so that we can drop the @ operator so that we can then use @ for attributes and have @SuppressError
 
fwiw @Girgias check the type handling of references in PHP 7.4
 
Suppresses the "Undefined variable" error.

> also, you know that this has the side effect of initializing the variable with null in the caller scope, yes?

Oh yes, that's right. No didn't think of that.

Haha it's just a silly experiment, no need for code reviews :P
 
@bwoebi for typed properties? (and is this in reference to my email to internals?)
 
@Girgias yes and yes
 
10:47 AM
Will have a look when I want to procrastinate more and stop revising for my exams :|
 
it's basically a matter of attaching and removing the type on the function call boundaries
Just saying that it is not really a pipe dream anymore
because the foundations (although it obviously requires a bit of work to adapt to a new type source which isn't properties) are there
(which is part of why the typed props patch blew up so much, it needed to update assignment to references at all places it was done)
 
Well good to know that most of the legwork has been done then
You may want to comment on the thread and prove me wrong :)
 
11:05 AM
@Danack I think JS is pushing the extreme a bit too much and PHP not quite enough (which also is a bit a matter of language culture)
 
@bwoebi Yes, also lack of function autoloading in PHP. And the inability to load multiple versions of the same library, although that brings its own set of tradeoffs.
 
true
@Girgias read the code a bit up, verify my statements and prove yourself wrong :-)
 
@bwoebi will do :)
 
@Danack Interesting perspective
 
@bwoebi seeing as it's been mentioned, hypothetically, is it at all feasible to 'remap' namespaces/function names during code compilation in PHP, so that something along these lines could be done?
 
11:16 AM
@Danack so basically function aliasing at require-time?
 
@bwoebi Can you give me your feedback to github.com/iluuu1994/scalar-extensions-rfc/pull/1/files?
 
@Danack I mean, you already can sort of do that in userland yourself right now, just eval("function $to(".fetchSignatureViaReflectionOf($from).") { return $from(".allArgsOfFrom($from)."); }"); ?
 
I think so. So any references to a symbol within the compiled file does the right behaviour, but doesn't use the exact symbol. e.g. Foo::class within the compiled file might actually get compiled to "Foo_1_2_3".
Perhaps I should write lots of examples, that would be easier to comment on than vague descriptions...
 
@Gordon There never was a "PHPUnit 3.8".
 
@Danack are you trying to use different versions of the same thing?
 
11:22 AM
@bwoebi yes. that would be the aim.
 
Wes
\o
 
Top tip kids, don't describe yourself as a "nice guy".
 
@Danack for that purpose it would be sanest to do a namespace wide remapping within a namespace and its subnamespaces
 
@SebastianBergmann only because you did version shenanigans. It was originally aimed to be deprecated in 3.8 though.
 
@bwoebi ta.
 
11:26 AM
@Danack something something namespace declares
 
I think it might be spelled "package"....
...and be an RFC for 9.
 
I just wouldn't implement it as a property of require
 
As Australians would say "Yeah, no".
 
@IluTov i am afraid with a scalar objects extensions RFC you are facing another uphill battle, maybe even steeper than match and blocks. I personally wouldn't want the end users to be able to extend the API at all, it would make documentation examples so much more unpredictable if you don't know what use extension was used for an $array->map(), for me it would need to be a new standard API. However overall the value of methods on scalar types is not entirely convincing to me.
 
@beberlei ehm, there is one major point, namely that all extensions are explicitly mentioned at the top of a file. Additionally, IDEs will be able to resolve that easily and give you the information trivially on hover.
 
11:40 AM
PHP API 20131106

:>
Fun times at work
 
@beberlei it really depends on context where it's used. There are places where functional is better than chained … and there are places where it isn't. In the end it's another tool in the kit to allow writing readable code.
 
@Gordon Ah, yes. That became 4.0.
 
@IluTov I mean if we give people the power to add methods to the primitive types then we will take away our power to do so ourselves, and it end up balkanised between Symfony Extensions and Laravel Extensions or whatever
 
@Andrea Ok, so that means you're against scalar extensions in general, right? (even with a standard library)
 
cmb
11:55 AM
"The main purpose of this repo is to provide a proof of concept implementation that can be used to design the new APIs."
 
@bwoebi its not the same as a class import though, take this silly example: gist.github.com/beberlei/4479885bc60c5953412b3b555307debf - the "EmailFilter" use statement is not necessarily needed to understand it calls to a class. but for the use extension its important to know "what" extension. so every code example you always have to add the use extension ....; to the example as well
 
out parameters - does that make sense? Going to reply to 'Keep type of reference params'....
 
@Danack I think tuples are the right approach. We just lack the type system to express them. Psalm and PHPStan do support them. psalm.dev/r/772ee02922
But I have nothing against out params either.
 
12:12 PM
@IluTov Entirely possible. The aim of the codex is to avoid repeating the same conversations, not to bring a conversation to a conclusion.
Okay, so. Other than the obvious possibilities for drama, is there a good reason not to create a 'show of hands' wiki page, for people to open non-binding votes for general RFC ideas before people spend the time working on them?
And is there a better phrase than 'show of hands'? Avoiding idioms is generally a good idea...
 
Interest vote? Non-binding?
I do have an idea of introducing tuples in PHP using the (type1 $var1, type2 $var2, type3 $var3) notation but I wonder how feasibly this is
Would need to convert function calls/def to use superset of these tuples which allow the absence of type and variadics
 
12:27 PM
@beberlei depends on context
if a project uses that particular extension everywhere, but none other, then it's pretty obvious
Also, for certain names, we expect certain behaviors… it would be bad if the examples did things which are unexpected
 
@Danack in principle it sounds like an 'indication of interest', a term used in the financial services industry to signify a non-binding interest in purchasing a security. That and 'non-binding vote' are the only ways I've heard this concept described in technical language
 
@CharlesSprayberry 'indication of interest' - WINRAR.
 
@Danack I prefer extending the return types if possible function foo(): string, string (which is basically just a typed tuple)
 
I would also avoid using the term 'vote' just because that has specific connotations and this is more like a poll to see if we should even get to the vote stage
 
I have a function that removes script and style tags to avoid XSS. What's the best name for that function?
 
12:34 PM
@Andrea that's highly probable. Is that a problem though? They can do multiple iterations over a few major versions and flesh out a good and sane API. After a few years PHP itself can then propose an own standard library (assuming a fallback chain of first trying any registered extension, then the PHP native extensions). - minimizing the risk of being unhappy with our first try and not really being able to BC break it.
 
@bwoebi Me too (just with parens :))
 
@Alex 'filter'? And probably broken.
 
... without testing it, does anyone know if opcache.preload supports the phar:// scheme?
or does it have to be a literal, stand-alone file on disk?
 
thank you
 
@IluTov tbf, I'd prefer brackets, because most likely the "tuples" will be some sort of hole-less, linear, starting form 0 array I guess.
 
12:38 PM
@bwoebi Brackets are fine too :)
 
bestNamedFunctionThatRemovesScriptAndStyleTagsToAvoidXSS
for avoid XSS do escaping on output
 
@CharlesSprayberry Is this neutral enough language - "Is the pursuing the general idea of 'Keep type of reference params' something you think is likely to be productive?"
 
the main issue I see with returning tuples, is that they're not named
we're about to possibly introduce named params … and then introduce a feature where the return values cannot be named?
 
Hi, A friend of mine introduced me to digital ocean and docker to host an application. Getting into it, there is a huge learning curve for both platforms. is anyone aware of a simpler hosting service for back project, like paste in your Github repo and modify DNS and your done. (like Netlify, just for php)?
 
@KerrialBeckettNewham heroku?
 
12:52 PM
@bwoebi Why not? Named tuples exist. (Instead of checking for integer keys it would check for strings)
 
@Danack yeah, I suppose. Still overly complicated. I like it simple. How's the Rectoring going? :)
 
@bwoebi Similar to this psalm.dev/r/689b1dc4dd
 
@KerrialBeckettNewham okay - I'm not actually involved with that project much, but am finding it unusual that PHP has best in class of anything. So it's time to troll other languages - rectoring.com urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rectoring
> The 'fa' in refactoring stands for 'faffing around'...
 
@Danack 😂 I know, friend of mine is maintaining it. But you came up with the idea of the word right? I call it Rectoming, coz your dealing with legacy shit.
 
yeah....I just made a typo that made myself laugh....and that's how the English language evolves.
 
1:06 PM
@Danack definitely.
 
ReflectionType and gettype return different values ・ *General Issues ・ #79574
 
@Danack coz it's like well better now init, b4 nufin was understandable. :P
 
@Danack I'd definitely add brackets here, the comma looks ambiguous and confusing:
~~function calculateDimensions($inputValue : int $width, $height)~~
function calculateDimensions($inputValue: [int $width, int $height])
Man stackoverflows markdown parser is decent, why is it so shitty in the chat??
 
it doesn't support multi line stuff. Put code in one comment, and press ctrl+k to indent it all. Then put text in other comments.
 
1:33 PM
@Danack Sounds neutral enough but a little wordy imo, "Is pursuing the general idea 'Keep type of reference params?' something you think will be productive?"
 
ta
 
2:15 PM
@IMSoP @ramsey imo if core ever choose to ship PHP code with PHP, it would almost certainly be done either embedded in the executable (Joe has a proof of concept of that), or as something through packagist. A separate Phar sounds really quite bad.
 
@IluTov I guess it would be alleviated with a generic syntax for those to dereference them, as in [:$width, :$height] = size();
I just don't want to have to write ["width" => $width, "height" => $height] = size(); because that's awfully redundant
 
@bwoebi Yeah that would work. The other alternative is making tuples a separate construct (so you can do size()->width)
And ($width, $height) = size();
 
@IluTov I really wouldn't go down that path
 
Wes
@Danack it's useful, but it would be nicer if we had that kind of stuff working around actual tuples/structs/ordered-structs (same goes for named parameters)
cough generics cough
 
2:27 PM
Because tuples would share some semantics with arrays, but not all … and then it starts to get confusing and hindering interchangeability @IluTov
 
everyone should feel free to open a PR with their thoughts...
 
@bwoebi The one benefit I could see is that arrays have two concepts of sorting, the linked list and incremented int keys.
[$a, $b] = [1 => 'foo', 0 => 'bar'];
var_dump($a, $b);
it's not immediately obvious what this does, you wouldn't have that issue with a designated tuple type
but i can't think of many other benefits
 
I know what it does and I consider that behaviour stupid
But then I'd really rather go the lengths at fixing positional array deref than introducing tuples
because, if you really, really need 0 and 1 indices, you can do [0 => $a, 1 => $b] = [...blah...]
But you cannot deref by order currently
(and I assume the BC break even to be quite small, due to nearly every tuple-like array having the args in the right order)
but actually determining that would need some static analysis
 
@bwoebi I don't know, I rarely think about the order of my arrays until it bites me in the ass... I hate php arrays with a passion.
 
2:47 PM
@IluTov May I tell you to just embrace it? :-) I think I've used the order more often as a feature than it has bitten me
 
2:58 PM
And of course it doesn't work ^^
 
3:14 PM
@Danack inout makes sense, probably not out specifically (though maybe).
 
3:38 PM
@Danack I never advocated for a separate Phar. I was trying to steer that toward the idea of embedding the code in the executable.
 
@LeviMorrison C# has out and ref which are slightly different. geeksforgeeks.org/… In our case inout probably makes more sense. Hack also uses inout
 
3:59 PM
@Danack feel free to shout your thoughts in here (re: the twitter dm) <3
 
^ Type in all CAPS is what he is requesting.
 
I don't think I have ever seen Dan actually shout :)
 
Yeah... although his photo of him wearing @Wes shirt design he looked like he could be shouting.
Let me see if I can dig that up...
 
Wes
4:14 PM
that looked actually mythological. just add a patch on the eye and there you have odin :D
 
@StatikStasis :)
 
Jan 15 '19 at 0:43, by Danack
⁦@WesNetmo⁩ sup? Everyone else, click here https://teespring.com/php-thor-mjolnir#pid=389&cid=100020&sid=front
Found it!
 
fyi, that's smiling.
 
LOL!
I always pretended you were letting out a loud roar.
 
Wes
lol
 
4:17 PM
@Wes you should push that way more.
 
I love my hoodie.
 
Wes
i was doing an improved version but since i am a utterly useless being i never completed that
 
Maybe watch for people on twitter who are giving PHP a second look, and say "welcome back, we have t-shirts" and a link to buy one.
@Wes that one is awesome, you don't need a better one. yet.
I reserve the right to demand a new design in 2025.
 
Will the hammer say php++ then?
 
Wes
4:20 PM
user image
5
very sober.
 
You did a great job on that design.
 
Wes
thanks. if only it was finished :P i only need to finish the sleeves, and increase the quality a bit. mountains are layers over layers of mountains taken from different photos, and they are not all good
it sucks being a perfectionist :(
 
@Wes please....that version is way more than the people returning to PHP deserve already....
 
Wes
but that version is for room eleven and they deserve the best quality :D
 
meh, I've met some of these people.....it'll be more than fine for them to.
 
4:39 PM
@Wes room11 is the best qualiity
 
@Wes exquisite
 
Wes
i've actually uploaded an improved version of the first design, but never told anyone, because i was already working on the full print design teespring.com/php-thor-mjolnir-2?pid=389
though i suppose one might want to buy that because it's way more sober than the full print one
 
@Danack imgur.com/uZdNRTc smiling
2
 
Wes
mythological tribal writing on the t-shirt sleeves imgur.com/a/zB2oMl4
 
4:59 PM
Content-Length header name is getting corrupted ・ *Compression related ・ #79575
 
May 3 at 13:31, by Danack
https://twitter.com/Green_Footballs/status/1256376985749803009
 
Wes
never gets old
 
@Wes ......unlike people with beards you mean? /s
 
Wes
that's not old, that's experience
i have 2 white hair in my beard, so gotta start to say that :D
 
5:42 PM
@Danack sure, but that's not how your e-mail came across; it came across as "please go play over there and leave the grown-ups to talk about something else"
 
I think I might take today as a mulligan, no motivation for anything
probably need to eat a salad, my diet has been crap the past couple days
 
good idea; exercise can help, too, gets the blood flowing or something
 
need to do a bit of yoga anyway, lower back gets iffy at times, downward dog helps
 
@IMSoP If this is about somebody called mike (which I guess) I don't see the problem
:P
 
sure, he goes in all guns blazing sometimes; but that particular thread was one which several people had said they were about to start anyway
 
5:53 PM
All supersoakers blazing*
 
hah! I've been using Slack on a PC and a mac simultaneously, and it's weird seeing guns on one screen and water pistols on the other
 
yep; there's a fascinating series of blog posts about emoji history which touches on this and other controversies
eugh, reverse pagination :(
 
6:52 PM
"const TYPE *" is not parsed properly when type is not defined ・ *Extensibility Functions ・ #79576
 
7:14 PM
@Wes really nice
 
Wes
:D thanks
 
@Tiffany That's gold!
 
 
2 hours later…
9:14 PM
Jellow
 
 
2 hours later…
10:55 PM
email message body length... suggestions?
 
Did somebody mention mail?
 
For this anonymous email form for employees.
I was thinking varchar (2000) ?
For storing in DB.
 
That's what TEXT is for.
 
What is the db engine?
 
10:57 PM
So mysqpukel
 
I thought TEXT was outdated... at least that is what I have read.
 
Never heard that.
 
Yeah text is what you want
 
Saw it mentioned in comments on two SO questions.
Text it is.
 
First rule of SO is don;t trust SO
 
10:58 PM
lol
Think 2000 is enough?
Too much?
Don't really want people writing novels... but who knows how long a complaint may need.
 
It's a blob of text, not something you're doing a string match against.
"big blob of random text" is the field type you want.
In MySQL, that's TEXT.
 
@Crell Dunno about that one
 
It's my primary key... kidding =P
 
if contains complaint -> dev/null
 
if it was me, I'd probably go for a MEDIUMTEXT.....
 
11:03 PM
^
 
So @PeeHaa . I've been thinking about moderation and making projects successful quite a bit. I don't think the problem of /r/php is really solvable on reddit. The problem is that the moderation tools they have are just not nearly enough easy to use, and that means that the conversation eventually turns into a shitshow.
 
mediumtext it is.
 
@StatikStasis dude what did I just tell you?
7 mins ago, by PeeHaa
First rule of SO is don;t trust SO
You are still on SO!
 
But... it's Danack... surely he would not lead me astray...
 
I endorsed it so at best you'll get an ashtray
 
11:06 PM
=D
 
have you seen my youtube links?
 
Maybe one
 
@Danack You are right of course. In my naive mind it could work better than /r/php. But yeah
 
I've been trying to write some stuff down.....I don't know exactly what a workable moderation system for a community would work like, but I think I can define some parameters for how it should work.
 
You're talking about an NP-Hard problem space.
Have you read "a group is its own worst enemy?"
 
11:11 PM
I'll try and tidy up my thoughts and post them tomorrow. But basically I think there's several keep steps, each of which wouldn't be sufficient on their own, but each might help get to a position where we can have groups that are more open than this room, but that don't naturally evolve into either useless or abandoned places.
 
@Danack Whenever you have some time / feel like it
 
Oh no! The original is offline.
 
There is a reason the thing existed for 10+ months by now and I never pushed forward with it
 
@Crell do you have a copy? I'm not sure which one I should even be looking for.
 
Checking, stand by.
 
11:12 PM
@PeeHaa but, I think the issue I opened the other day would be one of the key parts for the project.
 
The example of bugs on php.net is useful. Even just triaging the recently opened bugs is a useful non-trivial amount of work to do.
 
I am full in support of that
 
(Group dynamics and moderation is an area I have a put a lot of thought into over the years.)
 
Moderation here in chat works pretty okish imo as we have several different people with different styles
This specific room that is
In most cases
 
11:16 PM
Yes. It's all about setting, and enforcing, cultural expectations such that they become self-reinforcing. But they still need gardening at times.
There is no such thing as a fire-and-forget community.
 
@PeeHaa I think it's missing a couple of things. First some sort of note sharing between moderators needs to be possible. I know that will be controversial, but for cases like that guy who had massive mental problems over many months - it's not possible for people to look at individual messages and figure out if there is a problem or not.
Second, I think we need a better system of passing negative feedback from moderators, to the people who we are trying to get their behaviour to change.
I'd say more than about half the time either you or I have said "please stop that" to someone, they have tried to provoke a fight.
Which normally doesn't last long, seeing as they can just be kicked, but avoiding that drama in the first place would be better.
 
@Danack a.k.a. the rabbit avatar dude?
 
I don't remember avatar, the levels/experience guy.
And the other thing, is better tools for 'rewarding' useful info. Although we have pinned messages here, that's quite limited.
 
It is :(
 
btw - I'm just going to call the different groups/communities/interest groups "rooms" from now on, as I think that visualization is useful.
 
11:23 PM
BTW on the note of "unwanted" elements. Sometimes I think (in here) we have some people who manage to get away with it. And for whatever reason people keep conversing with it.
Which makes me think: Am I really the only one who thinks that way
 
@LeviMorrison Did you have a plan in mind for how partials could be implemented? I just put up a branch with tests for it, but actually making them pass is going to be a bit harder. :-)
 
Point in case being a certain person who think he's the best thing since the invention of sliced bread because he worked at yahoo who pops in here sometimes
As in a certain guy who worked for google
 
@PeeHaa yeah. That's also a problem.
 
sigh. People is hard
:P
 
They're the worst
 
11:29 PM
actually, I can't express the next bit clearly, so I will wait until tomorrow.
 
@StatikStasis They sure are my friend
 
but matrix.to looks quite nice as a comms platform.
 
@Danack No worries and no stress
 
@StatikStasis Pretty sure that's a trigger in our slack when mentioning "people"
 
11:30 PM
lol
 
Let me test
hmmm no idea what channel that bot works in
 
How is the Slack Jeeves coming?
Slack Jeeves... need to give that elephant a loosened necktie instead of a bowtie.
 
We have a basic bot working
I think slash commands and general messages in a channel
@StatikStasis lol
It's the first time I see anything about the matrix protocol @Danack
 
it's pretty new.....I think the problem to solve for that is how to integrate it with other data providers (like bugs.php.net or the wiki) and external auth providers like the php.net login system.
@Crell I have read that one before. I think possibly open source projects have one advantage there; we can tie (at least to some extent) work done by people back to their identity. Although that won't be perfect, it would be an improvement on nothing.
@Crell oh, and I've read that Larry guy before. Yeah, he sounds sensible there.
 
I can't tell if you're joking around or not... :-P
 
11:48 PM
for the record, yes.
 
:-)
 
Has somebody checked out Discourse? I've never extensively used it but other communities seem very happy with it. It's open source and free. I know I'm a very radical person (probably way too radical) but I'd just set it up, try it out in a small group (like the people in this room) and see how it goes. Of course we have other issues than just the medium but it's one large part of it.
 
There is a r11 discource server
I never used it though
 
@PeeHaa That's because it is for "civilized" discussion. =P
 
Fuck you
:P
 
11:51 PM
See?
We can't take you anywhere.
=D
 
@PeeHaa Oh is there, where?
 
Story of my life. I cannot go anywhere without "guidance"
@IluTov No idea :P
Ask our pro streamer
cc @StatikStasis
 
@IluTov I've looked at it....but never found it compelling. I think the two things it lacks (or at least doesnt do that well) are chat messages, as opposed to message board like messages. And also I think the authentication needs to be separate from the chat medium. e.g. if someone can log into bugs.php.net, they should be able to join the chat room that is setup for discussing new bugs.
 
@PeeHaa lol
I've got like 20 something views... so hardly.
 
You have a legato pro stream box apparatus capturing button pressing card
Pro
Streamer
 
11:57 PM
lol... yes, yes I do! And it is glorious!
Stream Deck XL.
If I can ever get done with work tonight I hope to stream later.
 
Are we still doing ff?
 

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