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07:22
happy star wars day! also tie interceptor day for php <<>>!
cmb
cmb
\\//,
Congrats!
vote still goes until 12 utc
Those 1700 voters can still jump in :P
 
2 hours later…
09:28
@IluTov I've access to the DB ;-)
@IluTov Do you think we can come up with another way of talking about throw expressions (and match) for the podcast? I think people would want to hear about it, but I understand you wouldn't want to do the talking...
Gah bugs.php.net down again
machine is up and processes are running
I have no sudo access
who runs bugs? I'll email systems to get access
@NikiC YOu have sudo access on that box
@Derick Let's say I do, what do I do with it?
give me sudo access so I can have a look? :-)
09:45
I don't know how to do that
@NikiC sudo visudo or probably add derick to the wheel group
eg. usermod -aG wheel derick
usermod command not found
and sudo visudo contains no specific users
I did a sudo adduser derick sudo
@Derick Did that do something?
Ugh CI is killing me :(
I have no clue what I'm doing
10:06
it's the sudoers group
sudo usermod -aG sudo derick
is the command
but something seems to have worked, as I'm now root
couldn't find anything, but I've bounce apache and it now works again
there are updates to be installed, I'm tempted to do that
10:25
> I'm tempted to do that


What's the worst that could happen? :)
stupid markdown
@beberlei So there's still time to discuss an alternative syntax?
@Danack >>Deprecated<<
10:43
᚜MoarSymbols᚛
🎩ExampleAttributehattributes
4
@salathe good idea. And we could use combining characters with other emoji characters to have different meanings. So combing a 💰to make a "Cash hattribute", which clearly means that the result of that function can be cached.
11:11
«Attribute» ← What's wrong with that?
@Derick Is it pronounced "double less than bracket but not the normal one, the single character one." ?
11:23
yes, exactly
Or to be going for the Unicode name: U+00AB LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
There is also ≪ U+226A MUCH LESS-THAN :-)
... I also learned that « is "left-guillemet"
Does anyone know how can I convert a webp file to a gif file? I tried cwebp command, it says:

Error! Decoding of an animated WebP file is not supported.
Use webpmux to extract the individual frames or
vwebp to view this image.
@X4748-IR ImageMagick has support for webp if you have the correct other things installed....If it's a one off image, try an online converter?
@Danack Can't I convert the image using command-line tools? I'm using ubuntu.
ImageMagick is a command line tool.
11:38
Hmmm... I think I've installed it, but when I run magick or imagick command says command not found, what is the name of its binary file?
...convert
12:03
o/
hello guys. ! glad you are here.
i am facing an issue to read a file on some txt files. and it works fine on some files

$fp = fopen($filename, 'r');
if ($fp) {
$line = explode("\n", fread($fp, filesize($filename)));
I am getting null in $line
while the file has 35 lines
@NomanJaved Is the file very large? If not you can just use file_get_contents instead. php.net/manual/en/function.file-get-contents.php
@Derick You got anything specific in mind?
12:20
@Danack Thanks., but I get the same error ):
I read somewhere I should use webpmux. Hmm....
@IluTov No, not really :-/
Maybe somebody else?
12:39
@beberlei You should update the rfc wiki index page
ah yes
@IluTov file just has 35 file just 1.8kb file size.
@NomanJaved Yeah you can just use file_get_contents in this case.
cmb
cmb
what's wrong with file()?
Not webscale.
12:51
@cmb Absolutely nothing, it's just harder to get wrong.
*easier
btw, press up to edit messages. But there's a time limit of about 3 minutes or so.
cmb
cmb
well, editing messages containing a mention can drive the mentioned person mad :)
@cmb that is indeed the most dumb thing ever on StackOverflow, it even mentionned the old person when you change the mention
@cmb it's simple file just each line has email address and 35 emails Can I send you file ?
13:10
1717
Q: How do I get PHP errors to display?

AbsI have checked my PHP ini file (php.ini) and display_errors is set and also error reporting is E_ALL. I have restarted my Apache webserver. I have even put these lines at the top of my script, and it doesn't even catch simple parse errors. For example, I declare variables with a "$" and I don't ...

I am using api I am logging the errors in error.log file.
there are no errors.
@Sjon
@NomanJaved so why is $line null? You can easily debug that
Let me explain you a bit more.
My client send me a file with 35 lines of email addresses. I upload file and read it using the above code mentioned fopen and fread

it didn't read any thing means empty

I just copied the same emails and paste in new text file and then tried same
process it worked.

I don't get why I am getting this kind of issue ..!
@Sjon
Why are we pinging @Sjon ?
@Danack it's fine - I replied to him ;)
@NomanJaved Well, the error is not in your code: what you paste could be working fine, see 3v4l.org/t2hrO - so it must be something else
13:26
@Sjon can you suggest me where should I look for. Because for last 6 hours I am stucked at this end.
@Jimbo Sometimes, when I want to shutdown a Go-binary with Ctrl-C, it hangs. It's probably because a go routine is blocking something, but how can I find out which one, and why?
@Derick kill -ABRT <pid>
I know how to kill it
I want to know why it hangs
using abort prints backtraces
ah, cheers. That was helpful
13:32
@NomanJaved you are a php developer and you have been looking for 6 hours to find out why a variable equals null ? Let me guess, the file is not readable by the webserver / you fat-fingered the filename or you are missing the else {die('could not open file');} in your partial snippet
@Sjon sorry for lot of basic questions. but I already tried it.

$fp = fopen($filename, 'r');
if ($fp) {
$line = explode("\n", fread($fp, filesize($filename)));
}else {
file_put_contents($new_log_file, "\n" . " else: ". date("d/m/Y H:i:s") . "\n", FILE_APPEND);
}
@NomanJaved so - verify which path is taken. Add logging for the if-statement as well. Maybe $new_log_file isn't writable either. How do you expect a stranger in a chatroom to be able to debug this quicker than you - who is actually writing the code?
@PeeHaa is the debugger command ever coming back?
https://imgur.com/a/6SIAcoO
@Sjon already did that.
@Derick There's the race detector which can check for deadlocks apparently, never used it though.
13:42
Yeah, there is no race condition. It's just one routine. I think I just need to catch the Ctrl-C in a handler
But even with a go-routine blocking, CTRL+C should just quit anyway surely... You can prove that by writing a blocking one and hitting CTRL+C.
You can use signal and listen for that in your goroutines
A case in your select
yes, I've done that before
the go routine currently does "read with a deadline set", and if timeout, do the read again. I don't see why Ctrl-C wouldn't break out of that though?
@NomanJaved lol. And you claim you have error reporting enabled and that screenshot contains code that you expect to run as expected?
Maybe it does something stupid like ^ that, just in Go :P
no :-)
13:48
@Derick Why would you read with with a deadline set, just to timeout and read again? Is that some resource thing like a file handle you don't want always open? Why not for with a select?
@Derick a signal can be catched in the programruntime just fine, eg. to cleanup. If the program then fails to quit, it continues running after "handling" your signal, thus not exiting
try is uncommented now. If you are pointing about that.

file is readable, 644->permission

https://imgur.com/a/hlXsJyI
@Sjon
@Jimbo Because I don't know if/when there will be new data to read
I am no go expert :-þ
@NomanJaved okay, so what is written to $new_log_file after a run?
13:51
yes, I got it :-þ
https://imgur.com/a/fPO2zTI
@Sjon
14:04
@NomanJaved what is in $line that makes json_encode($line) output nothing? It's not null: 3v4l.org/CKBJs
Prediction: php.net/manual/en/function.json-last-error.php is going to be used very soon.
@Derick Is it a file you're polling or something?
network connection, but not with an immediate call to Read
cmb
cmb
Moar predicition: JSON_ERROR_UTF8 as well.
        /* Set up interrupt handler */
        signals := make(chan os.Signal, 1)
        signal.Notify(signals, os.Interrupt, syscall.SIGINT, syscall.SIGTERM)

        reader := protocol.NewDbgpClient(conn, false, handler.logger)

        for {
                response, err, timeout := reader.ReadResponseWithTimeout(2 * time.Second)

                select {
                case <-signals:
                        return nil
                default:
                        if timeout {
                                continue
the read response does other things too, such as making sure the format it reads is right
14:13
And you're reading for data over the network like tcp://ip:123 ?
In the DbgpClient
yes
well, tls wrapped around it too
If so, I saw gaio which apparently beats C10K and handles that with it's own loop, you could use that or look at the implementation there: github.com/xtaci/gaio
I don't need this to be high performance :-)
if I need C10K then I'll just buy an extra server
@beberlei You mad-man. You actually got it passed.
@MarkR hah, i didn't expect it to be this clear though..
14:23
Indeed. Huge congratulations.
Well there still seems to be some nitpicks wich need to be ironed out :p
@Girgias to be expected with this large a change imho
@DaveRandom When you have time, we seem to have an issue with 7.4 on Windows with amphp/file and the parallel driver: github.com/amphp/file/issues/36. For some reason writing a file in a separate process in 7.4 is resulting in permission denied. This has been reported by 4 people now, so I don't think it's an actual file permission error.
14:42
@beberlei Oh for sure, just now you know that you're reaching the end of the tunnel
14:54
@NikiC can't that just depend on the $restart_syscalls setting in pcntl_signal()? (and assume false when it's not set)
@Trowski I assume you don't have a specific repro case?
@DaveRandom My understanding is that it's as simple as open a file, try to write to it.
Working on a system for tracking all keys within a company for a Master Key System. Curious if anyone has the time to look over this database schema to see if you see any flaws or issues with its layout: github.com/statikstasis/master_key_database/blob/master/schema
I'll have look later or tomorrow, remind me if I haven't come back to you by Wed lunch time
@bwoebi I think so. I submitted github.com/php/php-src/pull/5521 to drop it, as it seems bogus to me
14:57
@DaveRandom Thanks!
 
2 hours later…
16:32
@NikiC would you think we are aiming to low if we start a discussion about new Something just within attributes constant ASTs vs all other locations or should we rather start a discussion to loosen that "everywhere"?
@beberlei I'd say if we support it, it must be everywhere
@NikiC so would you think that just covers new Something, or would you rather it would be opened up to (almost) arbitrary expressions?
Ideally almost arbitrary expressions
i suppose tyson did get an honest response on allowing func() in constant asts
It'd be weird if you can new Foo, but not Foo::namedCtor()
But to be honest, I don't know if we have bandwidth to do this in PHP 8, I don't think it's entirely simple
16:45
yeah, martin experimented with it already and it required to move evaluation around in funky ways
it was just the first prototype, but i haven't grasped the whole scope yet
@Danack Will try to do some work on it this weekend +also your previous request / question
Sorry for not responding earlier. Have been a bit swamped :|
17:01
@PeeHaa thankyou.
 
3 hours later…
20:06
@kelunik could you check twitter dm please.
21:02
@Trowski so there's definitely more to this than meets the eye and I need an actual repro case to debug it. Notably it doesn't appear possible for _write() to fail with EACCES (it's not documented as doing so, nor does code in the wild seem to handle it), and the reported error message wasn't generated by amp
it also doesn't appear to have been generated by PHP, since he reports it as Exception rather than Error
although it does look like a legit system error message
the fact that the top stack frame is exceptionErrorHandler() also suggests there's something else going on (afaik that's nothing to do with any component of amp?)
I also suspect that the other guy who posted the "me too" comment has a different problem - likely PEBKAC - as they are two totally different code paths with completely different concerns. EACCES from an operation against an existing fd would mean that either it was opened "incorrectly" or something has happened to it after it was opened, whereas the other guy is doing a rename() which uses MoveFileExW, no fd involved
at least, not from PHP's PoV, that op probably creates an fd underneath at some point but it certainly isn't at the mercy of any error with creation flags or whatever
In any case it's more likely this is related to handle inheritance or something like that, as I understand it there are no "permission"-type checks performed for write() and friends, the only run-time validation is "is this a valid fd", "do the arguments describe a valid operation" and "is the system state valid for this operation" (i.e. target device online/enough free space) - and the possible error codes listed in docs tally with this description
I mean, it would be very expensive to conduct the kind of checks for which EACCES makes sense for every low-level I/O operation. The model is built around validating it on open so that it's safe to assume that an active fd is safe to use.
user11867329
21:25
Can anyone help me with postfix error : 550 5.1.1
...and note also EACCES is not to be confused with EBADF, obviously the mode of the fd is checked for every op but if you e.g. try to write to an fd that was opened with fopen($file, 'r') then it will fail with EBADF and wouldn't produce that message
I suspect there probably is some sort of problem since they say it works on *nix but not win, but I also suspect that it's more likely one of those things that is an inherent difference between the platforms and should typically be handled in userland.
If I had to guess, I can see this sort of thing happening if you have code which relies on fds being inherited by the child created by fork(), whereas (in PHP) handles aren't generally inheritable on Windows. That's totally spitballing though, a barely educated guess.
@OakDev Have you looked into what that error code means?
granted it's probably the most generic/least helpful error code in all of SMTP, but it is nevertheless telling you something about what should be on the list of things you need to check
Start by looking at 550 here
@NikiC Legit CI failure after your MBFL changes
/bin/bash --noprofile --norc /home/vsts/work/_temp/034bd1fc-aa4f-40a1-ac4a-93772b55edab.sh
/home/vsts/work/1/s/ext/mbstring/libmbfl/mbfl/mbfl_allocators.c:51:2: error: excess elements in struct initializer [-Werror]
__mbfl__malloc,
^~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/home/vsts/work/1/s/ext/mbstring/libmbfl/mbfl/mbfl_allocators.c:51:2: note: (near initialization for ‘default_allocators’)
/home/vsts/work/1/s/ext/mbstring/libmbfl/mbfl/mbfl_allocators.c:52:2: error: excess elements in struct initializer [-Werror]
__mbfl__realloc,
21:42
@Girgias should be fixed
👍
user11867329
22:40
@DaveRandom The MX records are not pointing to my postfix server
user11867329
but I'm using sendgrid as a relay so I dont know if that the source of the issue
user11867329
and I can't just play with MX records
user11867329
and lose important mail
@OakDev sorry are you trying to receive mail here?
user11867329
outbound
22:46
it's nothing to do with MX records then, not yours anyway
user11867329
I currently use a temporary mailservice for the time I setup postfix
user11867329
but I get 550 5.1.1 when I try to outbound anything
user11867329
postfix+dovecot
firstly you need to work out which server actually generated that message i.e. local or remote
user11867329
It looks local
user11867329
22:47
from a schema I saw
user11867329
of how postfix worked
user11867329
also, it happens instantly
those error messages are about as generic as it gets, the info you've shared doesn't, on it's own, tell you a whole lot
that said, strictly that message should only be generated by the end recipient server
it technically means "recipient address doesn't exist"
user11867329
I get that message from any external mailserver
user11867329
iCloud
user11867329
22:49
GMail
however it is sometimes used as a generic fallback "an error occurred while receiving this message"
user11867329
Hotmail
ok, so in that case you are dealing with some intermediary
user11867329
What do you mean?
user11867329
I'm even relaying through sendgrid
22:50
or possibly local, but that would be a really shitty way for a local relay to fail
user11867329
so I'm not sure why I would be the one receiving the message if it wasnt local
user11867329
especially since on sendgrid the messages were not even sent out
@OakDev OK, so either sendgrid are rejecting your submission or possibly your attempt to connect to sendgrid was intercepted
it's fairly common practice to block outbound connections to TCP/25 and redirect them to a pretend mail relay which actively rejects everything, for example
especially in shared hosting environments and cheapo home user ISPs
user11867329
I'm on GCP
user11867329
using GCP's guide on how to postfix+sendgrid
22:54
I don't know what that is...
user11867329
Google Cloud
can you get on to a terminal for the server? (ssh)
oh right
personally I would start with telnet name.of.mail.host 25, typing EHLO foo and seeing what happens, it will at least regurgitate some info that will help you determine whether you are talking to the server that you think you are
user11867329
yeah, im on server
also double-triple-very-reread the docs and make sure you didn't miss a step like setting up some sort of account/authorizing some sort of permissions somewhere
user11867329
25 is not allowed on GCP
user11867329
22:59
so I forward everything to 2525
user11867329
according to the documentations
that sounds fragile, do sendgrid not provide an alternate port? (587 is common)
also again, you shouldn't need to do anything with port forwarding to send mail, you only need to be able to initiate the client end of a TCP connection
it might be blocked by a firewall but there's nothing to do with port mapping at the client end, it's just NAT traversal in exactly the same way as an HTTP client, completely transparent unless deliberately set up not to be so by someone who knows what they are doing (which definitely won't apply to a generic env like that)
also btw you should just sod postfix off and do this instead: sendgrid.com/docs/API_Reference/Web_API_v3/Mail/index.html
user11867329
firewall allows everything perfectly fine
SMTP is terrible and fragile and really hard to debug, even if that HTTP API is awful it will still be better
user11867329
config seems ok
user11867329
23:08
it's just postfix running on port 2525
user11867329
as per GCP doc wuith sendgrid
user11867329
I'll look the docs you sent
@OakDev yeh I don't think that's your problem, you are successfully connecting to a remote server and conducting an SMTP transaction so your connectivity is OK in terms of things you have control over. The question is which server you are connecting to, and whether you are doing all the things necessary for it to allow you to send mail
@OakDev there's a HTTP-based REST API, including PHP library for using it. That will be easier, more reliable, more portable and probably faster
it will also probably give you more useful error messages if something goes wrong
user11867329
I mean, it can't be complicated
user11867329
I spent many hours configuring postfix
user11867329
23:21
I find the lack of documentation/explanation for 550 5.1.1 to be crazy
user11867329
I had a different 550 error
user11867329
I had to change the SASL_PASSWORD from apikey:[thekey] to user:pass
user11867329
and it worked for that 550
user11867329
but then I got the new error
user11867329
looping
user11867329
23:28
@DaveRandom I mean, I'm connecting to regular mx.SOMEMAILSERVER...
user11867329
icloud/gmail... (in the logs I see the actual address
user11867329
@DaveRandom SendGrid is a HTTP-based REST API
user11867329
sendgrid is just taking for EVER to answer my ticket
user11867329
in the meantime, my client has no IMAP
@OakDev "550" is an SMTP error code, it carries meaning at the transient protocol level, it is defined here as "Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable (e.g., mailbox not found, no access, or command rejected for policy reasons)"
5.1.1 is a "mail system" error code, a little bit abstracted from SMTP. It basically means the same thing, it is defined here as:
 Element | # | Message            | Meaning/Notes
---------+---+--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------------
  Class  | 5 | Permanent failure  | Repeating the operation unchanged will fail
  Type   | 1 | Addressing related | Caused by an unacceptable email address used in the operation
  Code   | 1 | Bad dest mailbox   | Recipient address does not exist
and yes I agree, it's ridiculous how much info there is out there which is overly simplified/missing key components/just plain wrong
@OakDev wait, IMAP is a totally different thing
take a step back here, serious XY going on I think
user11867329
23:41
Nonono, the IMAP thing is just because my temporary mailserver is free-tier so IMAP is not supported
tell me (in english, as if you were the end user) what the actual problem is you are trying to solve here
user11867329
I need my postfix+dovecot setup to work with sendgrid so I can officially changed my MX to point to my dedicated mailserver
a lot of the stuff you are talking about sounds like stuff you only need to worry about if you are running a mail server, something that receives mail
user11867329
using sendgrid as a supported relay
user11867329
since port 25 is not allowed due to exploit reason
user11867329
23:42
Yes, I'm running the mailserver
user11867329
Dedicated machine
user11867329
i copied my letsencrypt certs from old srv
user11867329
and a million other things
@OakDev no, that's your version, I want the end-user version, the guy who has no idea what postfix/dovecote/sendgrid/MX records are
i.e. tell me the problem, not what you think the solution is
user11867329
Send email to [email protected]
user11867329
23:44
via any protocols/ways
user11867329
be it via website
user11867329
or directly
OK cool, that's a good start
user11867329
and host the emails myself, to prevent fees
Folks. Does anyone know a PHP CLI tool to render a table with real time data? For instance: 327/4272 records processed, where 327 is incremented for each record. I've tried using github.com/jc21/clitable, but it seems it only support static tables
23:44
and the app in question is... a web site?
the sending app I mean
user11867329
It would be mostly via website
user11867329
well, actually maybe more not from website (app)
@OakDev ok right, what do you mean by that? what are you "hosting"?
user11867329
What do you mean?
user11867329
Lawyer group
user11867329
23:45
website
no I mean...
user11867329
wordpress
so, like "hosting" implies the existence of a sercer
user11867329
that wont be an issue
@LucasBustamante you can do that pretty easily yourself:
echo "\r $currentIteration/$totalIterations records processed"
23:46
some programs run on that server and some data lives on that server
user11867329
@DaveRandom It's a pre-built solution from GCP marketplace
user11867329
Debian based wordpress
what programs are running and what data is kept there?
user11867329
Why does that matter?
because "host the emails" implies that you are running a mail server
user11867329
23:46
you uh, y-you peeking peeker
user11867329
Oh thats another machine
@Girgias my real need is much more complex, it involves several PHP tasks spanwed to run some tasks in parallel. I'd like to provide a simple output giving the status of each of them, without relying on scrolling
user11867329
as said above, it's a dedicated debian box
@LucasBustamante this wouldn't scroll it would update the same line
user11867329
website on 1 srv, mailserver on another machine
23:47
That's what the carriage return character does
Interesting
ok, setting aside the massive urge I have to beg not to attempt running a mail server yourself...
what happens when the web server sends a mail... does it go through the mail server?
user11867329
@DaveRandom ok BUT let me explain why its a good idea though
user11867329
1. I learn MTA
2. Monies
3. I learn MTA
More indepth explanation is that the CR (carriage return) character moves the "cursor" back to the beginning of the line, therefore when you write again, it overwrites the previous input
23:49
feel free, then I will tell you an order of magintude more reasons why you are wrong :-P
user11867329
Bugs all the time?
Hmm, I see. So I'd refresh the whole content every x time
user11867329
I have free hosting.
Therefore IMHO the \r\n as a "new line" makes more sense than just "\n" as that would imply the cursor stays where it was on the previous line :D
Basically or when ever, could be on every record processed, could be every 10s or whatever other condition
user11867329
I just don't understand why there isn't a very popular one-click deploy with setup wizard softwarwe
user11867329
23:50
To setup a MTA
@Girgias the kind of topic you just can't bring up on dinner, but ends up being so interesting.
user11867329
What is everyone who has a domain and handle their own emails NEED to pay?
@OakDev 2 is invalid, mail services are cheap enough that they may as well be free, certainly as a business. 1/3... I do understand and I fully endorse it in principle, but in the specific case of mail it's a terrible, terrible idea and it will end badly.
Thanks @Girgias, that should get me going
for a crapload of reasons that I am happy to enumerate on requet
23:51
@LucasBustamante No worries :)
tl;dr email is really really broken and running a public mail server is like walking around in a T-shirt that says "please come and fuck up my shit" on it
user11867329
@DaveRandom Man, how can learning about it end badly, what am I going to spear phish?
user11867329
@DaveRandom yeah I kind of was worried about that
user11867329
but since I use a relay
user11867329
I could either proxy it (a la CloudFlare)
23:53
Also I fucking love anything related to mail
:D
user11867329
or simply using SendGrid Relay, I just have to refuse ALL connection that aren't sendgrid IPTABLE
cc @DaveRandom
Are you a masochist to want to setup a mail server? Cause no sane person would do that :|
user11867329
@PeeHaa Welcome to convo.
yeh I was about to @ you actually and draw your attention to chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/49290534#49290534
23:53
@Girgias exchange and zimbra are pretty decent
user11867329
@PeeHaa Help my 550 5.1.1 error with Dave?
In other news, Bison why are you generating code which [-Wundef] :( gist.github.com/Girgias/c695a7832e85b7ae6ecaccf1a2e94d38
@OakDev 1. Learn MTA
because I'm actually quite pleased with that tl;dr as a pretty concise/complete summary :-P
user11867329
@DaveRandom See, Learn MTA
user11867329
23:54
He's quoting my #1 reasons
user11867329
as to why I pushed
@PeeHaa you are talking to someone who doesn't even know how to setup a mail client therefore I just use GMail
I telling you to do it so you can answer your question
@OakDev yeh :-P but I promise you, trying to run a public mail server on the internet is about the worst way imaginable to accomplish that
Doesn't mean the source of the question is not self inflicted :D
@Girgias :)
user11867329
23:55
@DaveRandom How? How is having a firewall blocking ALL-BUT my relay
gmail is the worst mail anything though :(
it's quite rare, in that sense. There are very few things where you can do enough damage that I will tell you not to 100%
user11867329
"The worst possible way to do that"
@PeeHaa Yeah... the fact that you can't make it bottom post is... annoying AF
user11867329
OK GANG
user11867329
23:56
CONTROL
user11867329
I NEED MTA
@OakDev because the relay is still exposed. The problem is not the firewall, it's email as a concept
user11867329
gib
I just need to use something else but don't know what, I could use my own domain name but then I would need to handle emails...
user11867329
@DaveRandom What do you mean the relay is exposed? The relay is as secure as a paid MTA
23:57
think about this: email, in more or less it's current form, predates the internet (by quite a lot)
I NEED MTA is both the most stupidist and glorious thing I have read today
:D
user11867329
@DaveRandom Trust me I understand you spammed before I was born.
user11867329
But I still need a non-pay MTA
user11867329
simple reliable and secure
it was designed a way for a load of very technical people who all implicitly trusted each other to communicate over a network that may as well have been private at the time
user11867329
23:58
What you're saying right now is: Don't use emails
it was not designed with any kind of authentication, authorization or integrity assurance of any description
user11867329
Pay $10 per head for GSuite
user11867329
@DaveRandom neither was the internet
user11867329
yet you're here talking to me
it was not designed to operate in an environment where messages/second can be measured in millions
user11867329
23:59
Rambling like a Nic-Cage like teacher
at no point in history as there been any kind of redesign to mirror the change in usage

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