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01:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

1:07 AM
Any sane person should agree that FPTP is actual shait
 
But still ... it benefits the big parties so it won't ever change.
 
Oh yeah I know
Doesn't make it less shit
 
Well, it will, once I move away from this joke of a democracy
 
That's one solution I suppose
 
If the Mrs wasn't working for a government department, I think we would have already
So many Labour PPC blame it on the Labour party leadership. It's quite telling
 
1:17 AM
I am very concerned with how they intend to use their manifesto to change the legal basis for interaction between parliament and government
The conservatives that is. I think we're heading straight for authoocratic power
 
Yes, the page 48.
 
Wes
lol johnson won
 
Won is something of an understatement
 
Wes
people yesterday "yeah there's no way we are putting ourselves through this again"
 
But everybody else lost
 
Wes
1:25 AM
people today "we want to put ourselves through years of brexit talk again"
did you guys vote?
 
I did vote, yes.
I have never not voted.
 
Wes
that's good. i keep hearing this thing, people that didn't vote because "no candidate was good enough". recipe for disaster
 
I voted even though I didn't have much confidence in the candidate, but she almost certainly lost anyway
I had no party to vote for this election.
 
I'm in a Lab/LD marginal, The Lab candidate is "OK", but it's not my usual alignment so I could vote with my heart. I doubt he's won it though. I don't mind too much, as at least she's not a Tory.
 
My constituency has been solid labour since its inception, over 100 years
It's almost certainly flipped conservative.
 
1:30 AM
Which one is that?
 
Rother Valley
 
I'm going to need to Google where that is :-/
 
South Yorkshire
Sheffield / Rotherham
 
right - sheffield way
BBC has Arron Banks on. Had to swap
 
Weren't you a candidate for lib dems a few years back?
 
1:38 AM
It's very much a "Labour lost the elections" election. But, they still wouldn't replace their leader
 
Or was that for MEPs
 
I was. Councillor, as a paper candidate
 
I was wondering why the greens / lib dems even stand in some of these seats, seems to be a waste of their money vs spending it on other political advocacy
 
The 2018 Brent London Borough Council election took place on 3 May 2018 to elect members of Brent London Borough Council in England. This was on the same day as other local elections. == Results == == Results by ward == === Alperton === === Barnhill === === Brondesbury Park === === Dollis Hill === === Dudden Hill === === Fryent === === Harlesden === === Kensal Green === === Kenton === === Kilburn === === Mapesbury === === Northwick Park === === Preston === === Queensbury === === Queens Park === === Stonebridge === === Sudbury === === Tokyngton === =...
For council? It is free.
No deposit, and we didn't spend any money in my ward.
 
ah that makes sense
 
1:44 AM
"paper candidate" :-) I helped out in neighbouring Queen's Park ward
 
What bugs me most is... there's ultimately only one group of people to blame, and that's the voters
 
Yeah, it's the turkeys voting for christmas. If if wasn't so destructive, I'd like to see them finding out what voting for these tories is actually going to do to this neglected labour heartlands. :-(
 
I'll have to poke my friend about his voting choices, heh
Granted, I dunno if it'd make a difference
 
Nice, Labour gained in Putney.
 
2:25 AM
I have the task of hiring other developers. What should I look for?
 
3:02 AM
What's this about Corbyn being anti-Semitic?
I only read the article headlines, but two article headlines that popped up when I googled him was about him being anti-Semitic
After reading Wikipedia, looks like news agencies using clickbait headlines, I guess, unless I'm missing something specific
 
3:38 AM
It's cold, now hum
 
 
1 hour later…
4:57 AM
morning
 
How about you this day?
It's a good time to take a coffee : D
 
5:21 AM
@protoproto coffee can be taken anytime, any day ;-)
 
I think that Do not abuse any things. Much coffee is not good!
 
nahh in normal case you can feel palpation of your heart (your resting heartbeat can shoot up to 100) and in worst case death :D
 
Good morning
 
good morning
 
Good is reasonable?
Let die by code, not by coffee : D
 
5:41 AM
:-)
 
coding is boring :(
 
If something is art, enjoy it ...
 
i stopped enjoying it since 2015 but i did enjoyed it like anything, perhaps it was due to good folks who roam in this heavenly room :)
 
Yes, more beautiful, more remember ...
 
6:47 AM
mornin
 
morning
 
7:42 AM
\o
 
\o/
 
8:07 AM
More code, more trick : D
 
8:58 AM
 
Happy Friday
 
9:28 AM
It is not a happy Friday
 
9:46 AM
Optimists see flowers everywhere : D
 
9:57 AM
So @Derick, did you already decide where you will be relocating?
 
I am not sure. Not so much a problem for me; but it is for my wife. She wouldn't want to leave her job, which is right now very much tied to being in the UK.
 
10:30 AM
o/
 
cmb
o/
 
\o
 
No pain, no gain ...
 
did we get a new bot that spams semi random fortune cookie slogans into the chat?
 
10:44 AM
Yes, a bot programmer : D
Better more words, than not hihi
 
@NikiC Happy to chat about the resolved breakpoints now I've had my tea
 
@Derick k
 
Gimme 5 mins to set my things up
(and make another cuppa)
@NikiC I'm in the usual spot
 
11:01 AM
@Derick um, what's the usual splot?
 
Although, it seems to have changed...
 
I just used that one...
 
They fucked it up on Firefox it seems :-(
Need to use chromium now
 
ugh
 
So try again
 
Morning
 
cmb
11:58 AM
Somebody working on macOS who could check github.com/php/php-src/pull/3472 ?
 
@Gordon @PeeHaa is working on a new bot. I'm also contributing... slowly...
 
12:18 PM
hi guys
how good is sending a curl request with credentials as post ? In the sense of security?
 
Just as good as everything else. It's what you're connecting to and how that matters
 
and use HTTPS
 
12:47 PM
thanks guys
 
For my php.net rework I'm just doing the release downloads stuff, and I'm thinking it maybe makes sense to include recommended apt, apk and docker instructions in addition to the source... I mean, how often do people install from the source?
 
What if Docker becomes defunct, or another package manager replaces apt?
Who updates the information?
 
Whoever submits the PR to github
 
1:25 PM
\o
 
o/
 
o/
 
why does PHPStan consider if($this->object) { $this->object->doStuff() } an error and say "If condition is always true."
is that just the most basic, glaring bug in the tool?
 
well what does it think $this->object is?
 
1:37 PM
(note: not a regular user of it - just trying to get some tests to pass for a PR on a project)
it has a docblock code hint, but no actual typehint
so it could be anything
mostly I just want to check that it's defined.
 
Well, if you do if(new class(){}) { echo 'foo'; } it does echo. Can't you do class_exists() to check if it's defined in the namespace?
 
@Stephen It probably assumes doc block to be accurate
 
... ok so if I change it to an actual 7.4 type hint - phpstan doesn't consider the if an issue. but when it's a docblock type hint, it does..
 
And you likely placed a non-nullable type in there
 
1:46 PM
is /** @var Foo */ protected $bar and protected Foo $bar really not considered to mean the same in this tool?
 
@NikiC I think I'm having a brain fart but, mb_strpos does give the byte offset correct?
I'm not sure if the tests I'm writing are correct lol
 
@Girgias character offset
 
So on a 21 char long multibyte string mb_strpos($str, '', -2) should give 19, correct?
 
yes
 
Okay so I was writing bogus tests
Thanks :)
 
cmb
2:03 PM
@Stephen, try /** @var ?Foo */ protected $bar
 
2:18 PM
@cmb So one crop-resize operation on my local machine takes roughly 0.32 s which involves cropping a 9.5 MB image (6000x4000) to 14.3 KB (320x320). Is it reasonable to wait for the process to finish or should I push it to a worker?
 
Just protect yourself from DoS
and do it in-request
 
@MarkR Well the entire process will take around 0.32 * 3 seconds which is ~ 1 second. Is this fast enough to be in-request?
 
I'd probably set up a separate thread pool to just handle the resizing.
 
@MarkR One of my coworkerss suggested to just delegate it to a separate image resizing service written in Python (which takes advantage of Pillow-SIMD a highly optimized library for x86-based systems).
 
 
1 hour later…
3:34 PM
ibb.co/DWMXc7G Am playing about with creating better install guides github.com/marandall/web-php/blob/rework/include/phpweb/UI/…
 
3:48 PM
How's London @Girgias? Full of angry students?
 
End of term tbf so I'm not a Uni and not a lot of people are there
But it wouldn't surprise me
I do know some of my friends living in Kensington are quite pissed because it's a perfect example of spoiler effect in action
Con 38.3, Lab 38.0, LibDem 21.3
 
Well the lib dems aren't going to find themselves popular there, heh
 
@cmb I have Mac, but it's unclear to me what this is intended to change.
 
Well I think most of my friends voted LibDem lol
 
Did Apple remove libs from /usr/lib?
@bwoebi @NikiC @Danack @Derick We are having a meeting about instrumentation in 7 mins; you four didn't RSVP so I figured I'd ping you.
 
3:57 PM
lol stumbled upon this on twatter
/me looks up offending user on github:
> [harry@srv-rhsoft:~]$ curl --head rhsoft.net
 
heh
 
cmb
@LeviMorrison, it seems that this is supposed to fix the issue, that macOS doesn't link to Homebrew (or generally custom) libs, but rather to the libs provided by the system.
 
I'm accustomed to using pkg-config to provide paths for a lot of things. Since homebrew is not standard, I assume that's normal?
 
From what I hear, most PHP devs working on MacOS use homebrew
I suppose I can directly commit dead code removal in php-src?
 
cmb
We have pkg-config support only as of 7.4 (if at all), if I'm not mistaken
 
4:10 PM
@LeviMorrison interesting?
 
@NikiC Mailed you a link.
 
... right
 
he saw I was in the meeting and left again :D
 
I saw that this video conferencing software is even worse than all the ones I used before
Which is a huge achievement
 
it's actually the best one I know :)
 
4:19 PM
> To use Zoom, install the latest version of a standard browser, such as Chrome.
 
stop using lynx ;)
 
4:32 PM
@NikiC I use the zoom plugin
@LeviMorrison Sorry for that. Today is not a good day for me.
@MarkR There are other areas where it is exactly the other way around though.
 
?
 
"Well the lib dems aren't going to find themselves popular there, heh" — there are a few seats where the LibDems are that close and got spoiled by Labour :-/
"spoiled" sigh. FPTP needs to die.
 
Lib dem following isn't quite so... fanatical right now
 
I found that the LDs are never as fanatical or tribal as Labour.
 
Did you see what happened to the ftse?
 
4:36 PM
I'm stressed if I get close to a due date... let along this... youtube.com/watch?v=YXu289P-dD4
 
nope
 
UK stocks shot up 4% and increased billions just because Corbyn is no longer in contention and there's going to be some stability
 
yeah, no surprise.
"stability" my arse though, wait until july 2020 approaches.
 
I think we have to wait and see now. Johnson has his 5 years and has always liked Europe... it's down to if he likes the US more
 
Johnson likes Johnson
 
4:38 PM
Minor Service Outage | Issues, PRs, Dashboard, Projects has Partial Outage
Minor Service Outage | Issues, PRs, Dashboard, Projects has Partial Outage | Gists has Partial Outage
Minor Service Outage | API Requests has Partial Outage | Issues, PRs, Dashboard, Projects has Partial Outage | Notifications has Partial Outage | Gists has Partial Outage
 
5:00 PM
Incident on 2019-12-13 17:00 UTC | API Requests has Partial Outage | Issues, PRs, Dashboard, Projects has Partial Outage | Notifications has Partial Outage | Gists has Partial Outage
 
o.O
 
Incident on 2019-12-13 17:00 UTC | Git Operations has Partial Outage | API Requests has Partial Outage | Issues, PRs, Dashboard, Projects has Partial Outage | Notifications has Partial Outage | Gists has Partial Outage
 
lol
 
Yeah GitHub is dying
 
I should probably thottle it a bit :)
At least it's clear there are problems :D
 
5:09 PM
The moment I got around to fixing my mb_strpos PR
 
Maybe it's related ;)
 
:(
I've also realized the error handling on those function is widely inconsistent >_>
 
It's PHP :P
 
Well it's more mb_strpos tells you why it failed with a warning
All the other ones just return false
Cause you don't want to know that you're encoding argument you provided is fucked
 
Does anyone know what mod.php in web-php is meant to be? Email verification... but for what?
 
5:29 PM
!!should I get pizza
Wait, bollocks
 
Hello, We have a php extension and it is consuming too many CPU cycles.. we can see that, esp when the number of requests are too high.. any tips on how to measure, monitor the CPU usage of a php extension.. within PHP source itself, how is the CPU usage measured/monitored..
 
Blackfire
 
We are trying to debug the PHP extension (c code) and not our PHP code.. I suppose blackfire is more suited towards the PHP Code performance debugging..
 
@JAamish perf
Assuming it is indeed a cpu bottleneck, not syscall
 
@PeeHaa should I make a Should I plugin, or should you? :D
 
5:39 PM
I'd just start with a simple perf record to see if anything obvious jumps out
 
Thanks @NikiC I'll try that
 
OOh god dammit
 
Why is that dead code?
It looks like you remove the main part of those functions ^^
 
I trusted CLions automatic dead code detection
Let me revert that ...
 
5:43 PM
lol
 
Zombie code, it's undead
 
I don't see how it could even come up with that
 
I don't even know
CLion is really weird at time in how it detects stuff
 
If we'd only knew somebody who worked for the people that make CLion ;-)
 
:P
I'm surprised it works on php-src at all
I thought it was cmake only?
 
5:45 PM
anyway
Well I don't use it to compile, it's just that I use JetBrain's IDEs for all my other stuff sooo I just use it
Possibly not the most optimal solution but hey
Also @NikiC I think I've finally got the empty mb strpos functions PR working and with correct behavior
 
6:05 PM
@salathe can this count towards my contributions? 😛 github.com/php/php-src/commit/…
 
6:16 PM
/o
 
6:26 PM
@Tiffany I mean, by definition it does count.
 
I still need to do more though, I'm digging through bug reports and picking out things I can do
 
I removed an old email from github and it anonymized my two commits to php-src from 2017 :-/
I have another two since then it seems
sigh, the commit in langspec is also anonymized
 
@Ekin also your gitamp repo :/
I was looking at it yesterday
which is bizarre because it's your repo
 
ugh
well the <email> bit in the author info doesn't match anymore so I guess it's only fair it happens
still, it's annoying
 
Pay day
 
6:46 PM
Minor Service Outage | Git Operations has Partial Outage | Issues, PRs, Dashboard, Projects has Partial Outage | Notifications has Partial Outage
All issues have been resolved!
 
either a few questions or couple questions:
- is covariance/contravariance documented in the manual?
- I'm looking at doing: https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=78677, but if covariance/contravariance is not documented yet, I'm wondering if this report could be merged with documentation for covariance/contravariance?
granted, it's been awhile since I've read about covariance/contravariance so I'm not exactly sure if this bug report is even related
I understood covariance/contravariance for about ten minutes after I read an article about it, the main thing I remember is that it sounds a lot more confusing than it actually is
 
I forgot how much I hated working on remote docker without kubernetes
 
@MarkR kubernetes serves as an SSO?
 
Nah, just the whole infrastructure behind it, all that lovely network abstraction
 
@Ekin the crappy part is that it looks like you only made two commits to your gitamp repo, when you've actually done a lot more.
 
6:54 PM
yeah, I need to redo that entire thing anyway in new amp... it's not a big deal if it doesn't show up in the contribution graphs or anything
 
I'm tempted to just delete this server and get a single node GKE instead
 
lol, I've had moments like that
@Tiffany would this be a question for the phpdoc mailing list?
 
thanks
 
It could possibly be documented somewhere else, which is more acecssible, but I don't really know where that would be
 
Possibly?
Maybe a whole new page is warrented
I dunno :/
 
I think a new page may be better... explaining what covariance and contravariance is, with examples
because they are concepts I've read about, and I know they're relatively easy to understand, but I keep forgetting what they mean and have to re-read a Microsoft article to get the gist again
something quick, clear and with a few examples is ideal, I think
but I'm wondering if that would cover bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=78677 then?
 
Easiest way to cover this is to start by saying limited contravariance is available as of PHP 7.2
Limited in the sense full removal of type
 
yeah
 
And then go more in depth about Co and contra-variance
 
7:09 PM
I'll write something up for covariance/contravariance and put it on gist as a markdown file
just need to spend some time re-reading stuff, making sense of it, and writing out info specific to PHP
 
Hi @Tiffany, how is the CV thing going?
 
@samayo I already have one, I paid a resume writer earlier this year for one
though I need to make a few changes
 
Ok, you said you need to revamp your CV before you could apply
That's what I meant
 
for a general-type job that isn't related to developer work
like if I wanted to apply to the gas station down the road :P
 
I wanted to have a similar one (for waitering) but couldn't come up with any experience, so I didn't do it.
 
7:16 PM
I'm still listing my previous jobs. Even though they aren't in the same industry, there are skills I've learned in those jobs that can be applied in other areas. It's up to me to specify those skills, though.
 
Well, good luck. Let me know if you need any help.
 
7:35 PM
Eugh. F it. I'm using composer.
 
hmmm. I think it is the first time I see something like this (Rust):
fn main() {
    let x = 5;

    let y = {
        let x = 3;
        x + 1
    };

    println!("The value of y is: {}", y);
}
I'm tempted to scream hipster, but it's kinda cool. unsure if I'm actually hipster or what
 
How did you make Rust code to be understandable
 
it's the example in the book :P
this particular one comes from doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch03-03-how-functions-work.html, the section on functions
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier this looks cool. I want that in PHP.
 
:P
> Expressions do not include ending semicolons. If you add a semicolon to the end of an expression, you turn it into a statement, which will then not return a value.
this is super interesting
 
7:43 PM
I don't like that.
Too subtle.
 
indeed
but it's totally innovative (to me), I don't recall seeing anything like that in any language I've read snippets of
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier add () => at beginning and () at end then it's an IIFE.
which this sort of is.
 
hmmm good point
 
Eh, I wish php became more like python
 
@samayo stares
 
7:48 PM
Erg pls no
 
All the new additions so far are syntactic sugars, just copying js without the good parts
 
stares
 
stares back
 
So let's ignore the type system improvements but what ever
 
Type ALLLLLL the things
 
make semicolons optional \o/
 
No.
 
I'm totally ok with semicolons
All the arguments in favor of removing semicolons I've ever read sounded like they were made by someone who valued productivity in number of lines of code :)
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Come on, be real. No BS talk. Think of how many times you forgot to use semicolons and had to look to fix it and refresh your code. Think of how many frustrations and time that costs over time.
Just get rid of that thing
 
7:54 PM
litterally never since I've started using phpstorm
 
(if possible) I mean.
 
and I mean it :P it has never occured to me in all those years, in any language :P
 
ThW
@samayo Punctuation makes stuff easier to read.
 
@samayo remove semicolons, then you have debugging problems with whitespace.
 
but I understand that not anyone uses ides that highlight syntax, so yeah, I don't know
 
7:55 PM
phpstorm is not free and it is heavy. Not everyone has to use an editor to circumvent that
 
Intellij community edition or visual studio community edition
 
@ThW Yes, but with indentation and code formatting, semicolons no longer serve any purpose (at least in punctuation)
It is becoming optional in many languages, because it slows down productivity
 
Semicolons are easier to notice than whitespace, in my opinion
 
At least, that is what I feel.
 
And the amount of time you lose because you've slightly miss indented is insane
And I don't see how this slows productivity
 
ThW
7:57 PM
@samayo The opposite. In my last Python project I spend a lot of time fixing indentation.
 
@samayo That's cool :) There is value in the position that we can't only justify things in regard to what IDE someone uses. I do not think that sufficient, but we need to respect the tools folks use.
 
Though, I would be lying if I didn't agree with this
 
I hate Python with a passion, it's only redeming fact are comrpehensions
 
to this very second, I am utterly confused by this thing
list "comprehension" my ass
 
@Girgias That makes no sense, unless you are referring to the actual Python.
 
7:59 PM
(this is light hearted, in case internet tone does not go through :)
 
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