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6:01 AM
mornin all
I'm hacking around classes to experiment with sort of struct types, first though was to use classes, but next one to build something new around class properties only which will reduce struct entry size cause of no methods, consts traits, extends, implements etc.
And now I've got a question, cause I'd like my struct idea to contain two types of ast nodes in declaration stmt list with position saved so I can implement include fields from another struct and dunno what would be a best way to acheive that.
Lemme give you an example:
// is a struct with one field, with type int and default value 0
struct Foo { int $count = 0; }
//  is a struct with one typed field `id` and then uses fields from `Foo` and then last field `name` without type
struct Bar { int $id = 1; use Foo; $name; }
Inspiration was structs from Go where it is possible to declare struct field using different struct type inside and save the position so the included fields are in place of declaration which here is a use Foo; ast
// a struct with one field, with type int and default value 0
struct Foo {
    int $count = 0;
}
// a struct with one typed field `id` and then uses fields from `Foo` and then last field `name` without type
struct Bar {
    int $id = 1;
    use Foo;
    $name;
}
that's better now
Currently I've build fields like class members as an ast list of one kind, should I implement use Foo; as this same list entry but different kind only?
... when creating struct declaration ast?
I want to save positions cause I think it should be also possible to initialize struct with positional values list
 
 
2 hours later…
7:58 AM
@brzuchal for what it's worth I really like this approach
 
wheedle to influence or entice by soft words or flattery
 
8:48 AM
@Stephen I think this could be build around classes, which already solves autoloading uniqueness of symbol name, constructing and destructing, field access would be similar to class properties, and all what differs is all fields are public, could use of initializer like new Customer { ...fields }
Additional features I'm thinking of are:
1. `use Foo;` as in example - imports other struct fields
2. casting by shape, for eg. if `Baz { int $count; }` and I wanna `$baz = (Baz) new Foo;` then `$baz` could be ueasily casted to `Baz` from `Foo` cause field names and types match
3. Should they be passed-by-value or passed-by-ref like objects?
 
9:01 AM
4. `final` keyword in front of field could mean field can be assigned only due to initialization, then it's immutable
5. `final` keyword in front of whole struct could mean all values are final, assigned due to initialization and after that all immutable
There could be an anonymous struct initialized like... dunno yet
 
I'm dubious what benefit an anonymous struct would offer?
it's not like an anonymous class that can implement an interface
what does new struct { ... } offer over a stdclass, if you don't have defined property names (i.e. "I know I can access $foo->bar, I don't need to check if it's defined")
@brzuchal huh thats interesting actually. I wonder if the final on properties might be applicable to regular classes too
 
@Stephen people would object using final on properties in classes cause there will be ideas of readonly keyword or property accessors right after a question about that
@Stephen anonymous class can be used as a hash with typed fields and through casting machinery it could be transposed to any other named struct
Dunno yet, if this all makes sense. these are only some loose ideas/thoughts in my head now.
Patching Parser/Lexer was easy took 5m - build around classes with public by default fields and optional types
@Stephen What about removing new keyword? Just $foo = Foo { count = 1 }; and for anonymous struct $foo = { int }... I think this does not make sense or am missing some idea for anonymous struct
One thing for sure, if field order in struct is important and I think it shoudl be important, accessing struct fields could be done like properties by name but also by dimension eg.:
 
9:23 AM
Morning, I feel quite good about how I'm getting along rewriting doc.php.net:
http://doc.php.gpb.moe/tools/revcheck/
Still have my OutDated SQL query being borked in yet another way currently but oh well ...
 
struct Foo {
    int $id;
}
$foo = Foo {
    id = 1
};
echo $foo->id;
echo $foo[0];
With that assumption field names could be optional and field type could be optional, required only one of those.
struct Foo {
    int;
}
struct Bar {
    $id;
}
echo (Foo { 123 })[0]; // prints 123
echo (Bar { 123 })[0]; // prints 123
Go lang solves that using field type name as field name - it could work with scalar types like echo (Foo { 123 })->int; but would not make sense for namespaced class/structs types
 
Anonymous structs would be useful to create a tuple style object. Not sure if that's worth it though
 
@ircmaxell the issue I have with that is proper syntax, if I wanna have field groups like property groups in classes in declaration block, then need to use similar syntax as a list of [type] $[name], $[name]; separated by comma terminated by semicolon, but then on initialization I's like to use only commas, like $foo = Foo { [name] = $value, [name] = true }; for anonymus there should be a way to declare type, then field name with $ or without, then = $value and then comma?
 
9:40 AM
@brzuchal my understanding is that the new is often not used for structs in other languages right? I can see arguments both ways, especially given that stdClass requires new, but [] doesn't, and this would replace a shit-ton of uses of both of those.
the access by 'dimension' above is completely unintuitive to me
would structs be natively iterable?
 
Hey, so i got 2 arrays:
$y = array(0.1 0.1 0.2 0.5 0.4 0.2);
$x = array(0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6);
and is looking for a like average x value depending on y. After plotting it i can see it should be like 0.43? how to compute this?
 
@Stephen well, if order is significant, then access by dimention IMO is justified, then iteration through struct may be an option, but I dunno if that makes sense
One weird thing came to my mind, splat like in functions struct Foo { int ... $ids; } then $foo = Foo { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 }; would work like a collection of ints.... Nah that's not good
 
9:55 AM
@brzuchal is there some underlying logic to the idea that order is significant?
 
@Stephen yes you can initialize using comma separated list of values
 
@brzuchal I see, that makes sense I guess...
 
so I think for anonymous it could be even shaped like return { 123, 123.45, true, null, new DateTime('@0') }; - types could be inferred from values actually
or with field names without $ like return { id = 123 };
 
actually that is kind of nice, because it also gives 'simple object syntax' too
 
I'm gonna need to gather all my thoughts tomorrow, but if you have any questions please ask maybe something doesn't make sens or something is not well though
 
10:05 AM
hmmmmmm
 
@Stephen yes, but only values, types inferred and if we allow casting by shape it can be casted to named struct with same field names, or field names and types if they match
 
I think it would need some kind of indicator to say that types were inferred if you planned on including typed properties, otherwise they would be mixed, no?
but im not sure how you'd be naming the fields in the case of anonymous?
 
honestly the only thing I would see as non-obvious is that property position is signifiant. I understand the motivation, and I don't have any idea how else to solve it either.
3 mins ago, by brzuchal
or with field names without $ like return { id = 123 };
 
(I've just woken up) but how are they going to be accessed if they don't have a name and it's anonymous?
 
@MarkR position is significant so $struct[0] ?
maybe it's {0} I dunno. there was a whole example up above
 
10:08 AM
hmmm, but if it's index based, and CoW, isn't that just an array?
 
45 mins ago, by brzuchal
struct Foo {
    int $id;
}
$foo = Foo {
    id = 1
};
echo $foo->id;
echo $foo[0];
42 mins ago, by brzuchal
struct Foo {
    int;
}
struct Bar {
    $id;
}
echo (Foo { 123 })[0]; // prints 123
echo (Bar { 123 })[0]; // prints 123
@MarkR the anonymous case kind of is (except for casting to a 'compatible' struct - not fully across that part myself)
 
Okay, so that's more akin to arrays with type restrictions
 
but to me the bigger thing would be the non-anonymous usage
oh and somewhere there was a composition bit, using use
ala traits.. but for struct fields.
 
Yeah I definitely see value in a traditional usage
 
there's a bunch of stuff about it further up the chat
I was skeptical about the anonymous usage myself - @ircmaxell mentioned usage for tuples but I think I'd probably end up defining actual named structs for everything
 
10:13 AM
Next idea anonymous struct used to pass named arguments with some unwind by splat, maybe thats too much but let's see how it could look like
 
function foo($a, $b = null, $c = null) {} foo(...{a = 1, c = 2}); ?
is that what you mean
 
htmlentities(...{ string = "I'll \"walk\" the <b>dog</b> now", flags = ENT_HTML5 });
yeah
 
interesting.
 
@brzuchal That's quite similar to how named parameters work in Ruby. It isn't actually named parameters, but a easy splat and unsplat operation syntax to allow passing of hashes of key value pairs
 
but if allow this also arrays could be allowed like that
@ircmaxell interesting, I'll give it a read
don't like the splat here though
 
10:17 AM
Named arguments are a big-want for sure, less sure if going through a struct is a good idea.
Because god help us if we end up with more setcookie bullshittery
 
It isn't really a splat
 
side goal: make this work as expected: json_decode({json = '', options = JSON_STRUCT})
 
But more of syntactic sugar that does similar packing and unpacking
 
I like this:
json_decode({json = '', options = JSON_STRUCT})

But I like this more:
json_decode(json = '', options = JSON_STRUCT)
 
with internal functions, what would define the name it actually uses? the ZEND_ARG_TYPE_INFO/etc ?
because they don't always match up with the 'documented' name - could be significant work there to make the whole affair not a shit show of unexpected behaviour
i.e. what happens if you pass a named argument that the function doesn't expect
 
10:23 AM
Well that's partly the point of moving the arginfo to stubs no?
 
@MarkR the second is an issue cause it's fully valid PHP syntax nowadays
It should be encapsed with curly braces to indicate that this is a call by named args
 
if it's encapsed with curley's and you get your struct in there, then it immediately becomes valid syntax to passing an anonymous struct
 
@MarkR oh it's fixable sure, but I'm saying it's not a zero-effort change, and it'll introduce a heap of potential BC for anyone relying on ReflectionParameter::$name
 
Those changes are already being piled in AFAIK. There's been probably 50+ PRs that use gen-stubs to re-write them
 
@MarkR isnt that why it's using splat syntax? ...{foo = 'bar', bar = 'bar'}
 
10:29 AM
Well splat by its intent doesn't use key indexes, at least was my understanding.
Not that it couldn't change for this, just that it seems a bit odd
 
@MarkR I don't know what the current "official" policy is, but I was advised to keep the existing names from the internal arginfo lines, specifically to reduce 'churn'
@MarkR right I think that's what @ircmaxell was referencing wrt Ruby's "named parameters", which are just some sugar to expand a hash
 
@MarkR Ohh, you're right :/
 
sounds about right, although some of them im sure suck
 
@MarkR oh absolutely. the array_* functions all use, I shit-you-not "$arg" as the first one
must have been written by a pirate.
$10 says if you change this stuff core-wide, someone will pipe up that they've written a user land helper for 'named parameters' that uses Reflection to invoke a method, and it breaks because of the change.
irrespective that you're breaking it, to give them native named parameters.
ok time to go eat a bunch of seafood.
enjoy your Sunday Fellas and.... Sheilas?
 
Well if we want to change the argument name isn't the best time to do it before 8 comes out?
Have a good day :)
 
10:37 AM
Yes, 8.0 would be the time to break as much as needed
In my opinion at least, rolling as many breakages into one release as possible is preferable to constantly breaking things every minor version
 
10:50 AM
@salathe Thank you for the mail yesterday :)
 
I don't know why
I have a feeling that the live rev check is borked
Or my script is finding some other stuff in translatations
Yeah ... that seems problematic
@salathe haven't checked for all but seems at minimum the Japanese translation doesn't update it's RevCheck correctly on http://doc.php.net
See: http://doc.php.net/revcheck.php?p=missfiles&lang=ja with its corresponding trunk in regards to the appendices folder https://svn.php.net/viewvc/phpdoc/ja/trunk/appendices/
And my script seems to detect 3 times as many files which needs to be translated: doc.php.gpb.moe/tools/revcheck/ja/untranslated.html
 
11:42 AM
@Stephen I think stuff like that is ignorable though. Any change is a BC break to someone. The question is if it is documented and supported behavior
@Kalle @salathe and @nikic would you be comfortable with the vision doc as it is presented today? I am debating whether I want to do it or not (knowing the pushback I will get) and am unsure of support that it has. Not asking for commitment to voting for it or anything (or open support), but more "do you think it is worth while for me to pursue openly"?
 
12:07 PM
@ircmaxell has the document changed a lot or not?
 
You're going to have trouble with "PHP values ease-of-migration more than feature size or importance" specifically "the effort required to migrate existing codebases should be considered more important than pretty much any single feature"
because that would be waved like a flag in battle to say that anything requiring change is defacto overuled by requiring any migration
 
@Girgias Not in the past 2 weeks. Though I am debating getting it into a proposable state
@MarkR I think it should be. I think the reason to break BC should be actually justified (which is what that bullet is saying)
 
IMO it doesn't read like that with saying BC is "More important than any single feature"
It's a bit... absolute?
 
Okay
 
It's personal opinion, but I'd like to see us have some kind of objective towards making the language more accessible, and less likely to be confusing. I think some of the recent stuff has made good strides towards that, and some of Nikic's recent suggestions too will benefit that
 
12:23 PM
@MarkR Isn't that reflected by the second "believe" statement (which is higher and therefore takes priority)?
 
I dont see a second one, then again i'm looking at "Vision for PHP 8+" maybe it's outdated
 
> I.II.II. PHP values making the language safer more than strict backwards compatibility
 
oh the charter
 
Yes
The vision doc was used as the initial iteration
 
> This means that where practical and possible, small errors should be raised to the user, but execution should continue.

Good luck with that when we just had a majority vote for exceptions on undef vars :-D
Then again, I guess that's more than a "small" error
 
12:28 PM
I also think that it's a bad idea to do that, but we had that discussion ;)
 
My point was, if that got something like a 60% majority, you're likely going to struggle to get people to agree to flip their position to be the complete opposite
 
@MarkR It isn't the complete opposite. Not by a long shot
But, and here's the Crux of the bet I am making here, I think the vast majority of people will disagree with at least some part of this. However, I think enough people will see the value in compromise on the whole to support it even if they don't agree on every detail
 
How so? Throwing an exception is intended to stop execution, by comparison your charter says where possible, execution should continue.
I would say that general sentiment is generally swinging towards stopping execution, rather than continuing. I consider that a very good thing, but I know a minority disagree
 
In some cases, yes. But I also believe that some of that sentiment is case-dependent
 
12:50 PM
If it were me, I would probably hedge my bets:

PHP's has traditionally been quite forgiving of user errors, choosing to notify, but continue regardless. However, the PHP community believes that this style of error handling no longer provides the level of assurance desired for developing modern applications, and will work towards a default configuration that will allow developers to work with best-practices, while still providing file-level opt-outs for those languages which depend on the previous lax handling.
 
A part of the community. Not the entire thing.
 
The majority of internals
 
Sigh
 
We're never going to get "the entire thing"
We could be on PHP version PHP_INT_MAX at the heat death of the universe and we'd still have people arguing till they used the last remaining atom of oxygen before it decayed into photons that you should be able to multiply two paragraphs of text together and PHP continue on regardless.
 
Mark you are expressing yourself in absolutes which ain't helping IMHO, wouldn't it be better to express what we mean by "safer" which we value more than BC?
Maybe that safer means tending towards a language that removes/limiting error prone behavior
 
12:57 PM
That's a different bullet
 
It is
But I don't think that stopping execution for something minor makes any sense
 
You voted for exceptions for accessing undef vars o_O
 
Yeah
 
@MarkR There are things that make PHP a successful language. Things that don't make it sane or modern or whatever, but wildly successful. Should it modernize and be safer and more predictable? Absolutely. But stray too far and you risk messing with the factor that led to the success.
 
Because I don't think that's a minor thing
 
1:00 PM
I think what made it a success 10 years ago probably isn't what would make it successful for the next 10+ years maxell, the keep-doing-what-you're-doing argument is dependent on external factors not having changed, and they have.
 
@MarkR I am not suggesting to keep doing what it is doing
 
Sorry, I was basing that more on the arguments that are commonly seen on the ML. The "it's worked for 20 years" argument
 
I have been a huge proponent for modernizing and improving the language over the past 7-8 years I have been involved in the project. I think it needs a lot more evolution. I just strongly believe a balance is needed. That not everything that is possible to change should be changed
 
I still think the biggest argument is going to be defaulting... classic standards vs best practices. That's going to be the deciding factor.
 
I don't think for example renaming function and having consistent argument order is wise, you're just adding a bunch of aliases, would it be nice to have those consistent, sure, does it makes sense to do it? Not in my mind.
 
1:05 PM
I think that will come if / when we get scalar objects Girgias,
 
And even with the Execution operator I'm kinda on the fence on it, I'd probably vote for it to remove it just because how much the meaning of them has changed over the years and you can do massive things with them. But I feel they are way less of a problem than short tags which depends on a god damn engine toggle
Yeah I know
 
Short tags should have been put to death, I think ya just bodged it a bit on the implementation which lead to the second vote.
No-ifs, no-buts, that should have been taken out behind the shed and double-tapped.
 
Well yeah, because nobody gave me feedback on the implementation during the discussion because people though it wouldn't pass
The only thing I had is why break code that works and it's opt-in behavior (it is not) which is the whole issue
 
@MarkR Totally agree with you there
 
Which I didn't think I'll encounter
I was like it's opt-in, it's kinda stupid, remove the feature
BUT because it's on by default, changing the default / deprecating means that you potentially just break code without them even knowing
 
1:09 PM
How long ago was it? Because I think if Nikic goes ahead and creates an official code rewriter built into PHP, you should re-bring it
 
April
I'll make another proposal probably when I've got the head to it
Also I shouldn't have caved into Z. demands and ask him to write a counter RFC on make a vote on that
That should have been the correct procedure in hindsight
 
Yup :)
 
Life lesson. Ignore almost everything Z says.
If it can't pass with an official rewrite tool in place, we've got bigger problems.
 
Yeah, but when you're a newbie and you have the creator of modern PHP ask you things there are power dynamics in play
 
@MarkR You can't totally ignore. Too many people listen to it. You just can't let it derail you
 
1:16 PM
That's probably a better way of putting it. I'm choosing not to engage with him on my RFC because his argument comes down to anything he disagrees with shouldn't even get an RFC, let alone a vote. Ironically after god knows how many posts, it was Derick who came up with the first actual legitimate objection.
Which was that double quotes don't need to be escaped when used in backticks, so I added that to the RFC.
 
I think deprecating them is a fantastic idea, and so +1 from me
 
@ircmaxell do you still vote on RFC?
 
From time to time
I think 2 or 3 in the past few years
 
Okay ^^
 
I've no idea who most the people are who vote, I should probably look through people.php.net sometime
 
1:27 PM
Been waiting for the project to adopt a CoC so I can engage more, but it hasn't. So thinking about doing so in the charter thing
 
I think it'll be a lot better if RFCs-on-Github can get officially approved Maxell, that was much more productive.
 
@MarkR I am making that part of the charter :)
It may be too much at one shot. But by themselves there is too much nit-picking and bike shedding.
 
My question would be, if your charter gets voted down, is everything in it out-of-bounds for discussing for 6 months after
as in individually
 
Absolutely. The RFC process says so. The only thing you have to wait 6 months for is revoting on the same proposal without non-trivial modifications
 
Good good
 
1:53 PM
Morgen room
 
Hello guys
 
/me waves
 
Is it ok to ask help about .htaccess redirect here
 
Don't ask to ask, just ask your question
 
How to redirect URL with string query to the same URL without string query?
The URLS
https://example1.com/any-path-here/?_gl=1*um0ntk*_ga*YW1wLUVyYS1QbHgwcFp1SEJBYVlGSlNYdWNQUWIxNGVxY2VhakRDNDUtYmJUZWZPV1M2WEdWN2s2dXVRNzNZWGNTdkk

https://www.example2.com/hello-how-are-you-today/?_gl=1*1lcwex2*_ga*YW1wLXBtWXdrdWNEcTRjTVcwWjMzTzJwNEdJeU5vTmo5UVF0RmFhTEdpbkdMdjgyLXRNQXJaM21oRGpUX2ppSnB3dGs
 
2:02 PM
i.e. example.com?q=hello to example.com ?
 
Nope
?_gl=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx...................
 
I am not getting your question
So you want a different URL with the same query string?
 
its not ?q= but its ?_gl=and-then-the-number-just goes-on
should redirect to

https://example1.com/any-path-here/
https://www.example2.com/hello-how-are-you-today/
 
Yeah so?
So it's what I'm saying
Same thing
 
oh ok
 
2:05 PM
Isn't that just removing the [Q] flag in the rewrite rule?
 
reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/dh7sjd/… oh man that's brilliant
 
yeah, I just meant that the word "hello" is not constant
I have tried:

<IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{QUERY_STRING} _gl=
RewriteRule ^ %{REQUEST_URI}? [L,R]
</IfModule>
But its not working
 
So, I'm on an airplane now, using wifi, and getting TLS errors trying to connect to reddit... Hmmmm....
 
@PeeHaa LOL =D
 
Well you're on a plane, there's a lot of space in between you and the ground to put a man... in the middle...
 
2:09 PM
@ircmaxell Gogoinflight and all of those other onboard WiFi networks have always sucked for me.
 
@StatikStasis it's United's version
 
What has to be changed in
<IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{QUERY_STRING} _gl=
RewriteRule ^ %{REQUEST_URI}? [L,R]
</IfModule>
I've asked my question here - serverfault.com/questions/987802/…
 
So, United mucks with the connection to reddit...
 
"So, I'm on an airplane now, using wifi, and getting TLS errors trying to connect to reddit... Hmmmm...." - what browser are you using. Does it support TLS 1.3?
or the website might be using older version of TLS
 
2:25 PM
Chrome and Firefox
it's Reddit though
 
Is that mixed content warning or
Is the URL in https://
 
it's a TLS error
it goes away when I use a VPN to access it
 
yup trying to MitM it
check the cert on the normal method
 
yep reddit.com seems to work without any cert error on my device
What VPN, are you using
You can try Cloudflare's WARP VPN App (currently only available for mobile)
They don't sell personal info, free and fast.
 
@ircmaxell sounds like a cloud problem to me ;)
 
2:33 PM
Take care all, bye
 
@M.K.Dan one for work
@MarkR my thought exactly. I could drop to the CLI to determine that, but frankly, meh
 
@ircmaxell Are you sure you are not hitting the captive portal?
3rd parties like that tend to mitm that
 
Positive
 
Nice... :P
 
3:27 PM
Okay, I got a branch ready, and the Project Charter drafted, as well as the RFC. Just need to draft the Pull Request and the email, make it public, and submit
would love reviews if anyone wants access
@NikiC I know you said not to submit PRs for now to php-rfcs. Would you object to me using it for the Project Charter stuff?
 
3:43 PM
@ircmaxell what is it about?
 
did you see the proposal I had? the google doc?
 
No i didn't
I think I've missed it
 
what's your github identifier?
 
brzuchal
 
actually, google docs email instead? (I'll share that version, even though a bit has changed)
 
3:49 PM
michal.brzuchalski@gmail.com
 
Cool, you can delete the message if you'd likie
(to not let your email get indexed)
invite sent
 
4:06 PM
@ircmaxell that's nice, read all up to VI.
 
I need a creative name for a tool.
at least loosely related to it's purpose, which is testing http end points.
 
4:21 PM
:)
 
cmb
thep
 
@cmb i discussed trying to name it something related to this guy
but the ph part makes it an obvious choice for php (and the tool isn't php-specific, or written in php)
 
cmb
Phristof?
 
4:40 PM
... is that a suggestion for the tool name? or are you just making fun of me :P
 
@Stephen When you say testing endpoints, what do you mean?
 
I mean running integration tests against an HTTP api
so, define a request to make, and a series of things to check in the response
yes I am aware there are tools that do this already.
 
erg
I'm struggling with Docker ...
I though you could use apt on Alpine
Or am I miss-remembering shit
 
doesn't the package manager generally depend on the actual linux distribution on which the container is based?
 
Well I'm running it on GitLab CI so
shrugs
 
5:00 PM
 
And it didn't even decrease the time of the stage >-<
Maybe I should find a docker image with svn pre-installed
as it's the only point of this stage ...
 
@Stephen Interloper
 
@ircmaxell is that a name suggest or are you insulting me? :P
 
A name to suggest
 
5:21 PM
@Girgias apk
 
Yeah I did that
 
@ircmaxell are you suggesting testing is unwanted and doesn't belong :P
 
Well I think I got a perf problem now
I went from sub 2min page builds
the current one is running on 25min
Did my change in SQL query make it so slow >_>
 
5:46 PM
@Stephen I... Well... May be a Freudian response. I just picked the first word that started with "Int" that I thought of
 
@ircmaxell .... because http == internet?
 
OH GOD I'M AN IDIOT
I miss wrote the SQL request
obviously it's taking ages if I'm making a condition with a column from outside the subquery ...
god dammit
 
6:04 PM
@Stephen Nah, nothing like that. More joking about Integration testing ;)
 
@DaveRandom ping
 
6:35 PM
I kind of like teshttp - it's test+sh+http smooshed together.. of course if I wanted to honour the Phteven dog, it'd be tephttp
 
7:29 PM
I want to do the grandma glasses meme: te sht tp? Or tes htt p?
 
 
3 hours later…
10:34 PM
Just discovered that there are multiple PhD things
Like PEAR, GeShin, Generic (????), IDE (?) and PHP
What's the status on those? Is only the PHP one "relevant" or?
I'm too tired to think/try but is it possible to render the PHP Doc with Pandoc?
 
11:05 PM
timezone_abbreviations_list only lists from compiled in db, not PECL timezonedb – #78669
 
11:27 PM
@salathe @cmb (or anyone who knows stuff about the Documentation) what's the actual command used to render the PHP.net documentation? I'm pondering about the idea of using Pandoc (a more maintained tool) than PhD to render it ... but I just realised that I don't know which command I need to mimic ...
 

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