« first day (2825 days earlier)      last day (2136 days later) » 
00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

3:00 PM
You can ask Nikita and Bob what they'll be voting or what they think.
 
@LeviMorrison reopened
 
Seeing the results before you vote will in many cases affect your vote and I don't think that works very well for democracy. :p
Maybe the author can see the results?
 
Sheep will be sheep. If we fear herd mentality then increase the required yes ratio to pass.
I would prefer to do that anyway.
 
Sheep can't be sheep if they don't know the trend. Most polls, elections, almost any voting will hide the results until you've cast your vote.
TIL null is not a scalar value.
 
> Most polls, elections, almost any voting will hide the results until you've cast your vote
Exit polls are a thing
 
Wes
3:09 PM
vote should be anonymous. i think it's normal that people want to skip the thinking that someone already did. they copy the vote, rather than giving the right vote. also conformity. voting what the majority voted is a safer choice
 
Exit polls are basically people talking about how they voted here or elsewhere.
Anonymous is good. :)
 
yes, which is votes of people
 
Wes
but that's maybe not a good reason as the vote should be revealed at the end of the voting... probably
 
@rtheunissen This does not stop mass media from reporting exit poll data.
 
@LeviMorrison at least in my country they can only do so once the vote closes
 
3:10 PM
You are in backwards country :P
 
I suppose allowing someone to vote anonymously until vote is over is fine.
 
You coming back yet?
 
I still think the default should be to vote with your name attached.
 
@PeeHaa probably a couple weeks in September
 
kk cool
Holiday or work visit?
 
3:11 PM
work
 
Anonymity is used for bad behavior far more often than for good behavior.
 
k
 
They can report it all they want, it's only an estimation not the official result. We can get a general idea / sentiment for a feature by reading the discussion and discussing votes as we go. But it's not yes/no counted results right in front of me.
 
Unless it's tight exit polls will just be correct
And if it is tight you would also not have sheep because otherwise it wouldn't be tight
imo
 
Anonymity doesn't really work as there are always people (who may have a vested interest in a RFC) who can see who voted what (access to the wiki server). And that would make it unfair. Maybe I'm overthinking it but it is something to consider
 
3:16 PM
Just have everyone add at least one paragraph long reason with their vote, this way they will always have to think about their vote before casting it.
No need for anonymous voting or hiding votes.
 
3:27 PM
Uh am I reading too much into Sara's last response?
Or is she really being a dick?
 
It seems there's no way to make everyone happy. Target 7.3, and a few people will be upset about the feature being "rushed." Target 7.4, and others will be upset that it doesn't target 8.0 instead. Target 8.0, and almost everyone will be unhappy to have to wait so long.
 
Reading that thread makes me happy to not be involved anymore
 
> Well... it's not being voted on because, despite being six days till
the originally planned feature freeze date, neither sponsor has opened
a vote.
She's saying that you missed your window.
And it's in response to my statement:
> It seems the only reason it's not being voted on is because people don't want them to.
 
@LeviMorrison So she was suggesting that we should have just done this with a 1 week voting period?
 
Yes.
1 week is all that is required for all RFCs. Officially there isn't even language which recommends longer ones.
 
3:36 PM
Uh anyway
 
Ha, I was looking at the implementation of array_merge to make it fully variadic for convenience and noticed that the implementation is shared between array_replace, array_replace_recursive, and array_merge_recursive. But that means that array_replace($array) is valid even though it is documented as needing 2 parameters...
 
IMHO the way to go would have been a secondary vote about targeting 7.3. But from the moment that cmb has explicitly asked not to, I dunno if that still makes sense
 
The RM has no power to reject things that abide by rules. The trouble is they missed the 7-day window.
 
@LeviMorrison sure the RM does. They ultimately are the arbiter of what gets merged and what does not, no?
 
No. In fact, CMB messaged me this excerpt this morning about a different question I had:
> But they [the roles of the release managers] are not:

* Decide which features, extension or SAPI get in a release or not
 
3:40 PM
fair enough
 
my understanding was that they had final veto incase a feature "wasn't ready"
 
If there are enough bugs or other issues sure, but there is no evidence of that here.
 
Aren't they also in charge of the schedule, like adding an extra alpha if required
So, the feature freeze is not set in stone
 
same old hijinks by the same old troublemakers for the same old political bullshit :)
 
3:48 PM
It's not too late for those two extra alphas.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@NikiC It's always possible that I'm being a dick, and tbqh that message was a bit "wtf haven't you guys opened a vote yet???"
@LeviMorrison Right. Which is why we've been trying to prop the window open as much as is reasonable.
@pmmaga Sorry, when did cmb ask for something not to happen? There's a lot of threads and I might've missed a message or two, but in my conversations with him he's been in favor of letting internals@ decide by the usual RFC voting process.
 
@Sara here
 
@Sara we thought it would get quite negative reception if we tried to open the vote at this stage - it only turned out in the last couple days that this isn't the case
 
haha array_replace has supported 1 arg since it was introduced: 3v4l.org/PVENY. It's been documented as needing 2 args this whole time...
 
TBH it would be better for me if we did not go for 7.3. I have some really urgent stuff to work on and I'm sure getting this landed will be a huge distraction
 
3:57 PM
@pmmaga "I would ask..." <--- I read a softer stance in that. One I agree with from the standpoint of "this felt too late for 7.3 when the RFC first came up, let alone now", but I don't read it as a prohibition by any measure.
 
Especially if we will have to keep fighting things every step of the way
 
@NikiC Then how about opening the vote targeting 7.4? I don't think you'll get much resistance to that apart from Ze'ev.
 
Zeev has no technical grounds to oppose it. We have no such measures in our RFC process.
 
If Zeev is against something, then that means he'll make Dmitry be against it as well, and Dmitry is the one who'll be reviewing the patch ;)
 
@Sara I agree it's a "soft" ask. :) And I'm in no way blaming him for asking so.
 
3:58 PM
He's not our leader, and he's not even a comrade. He doesn't do anything.
 
True, but he has a vote, and he'll use it, and he may even bring some votes along with his (dmitry, for example).
Right. I'm saying (essentially) ignore him. Not his suggestions for improvements, obviously, but let him not like it. I think you've got enough yes votes to support TP in 7.4.
 
@Sara Probably @bwoebi won't like that
 
o.O ?
 
@Sara I mean, @bwoebi would probably prefer to have it in 7.3 ^^
 
I'm really committed to making variance land in 7.4, and nearly as committed to making generics ready by then too.
I actually have dedicated time to work on these features now.
 
4:02 PM
@LeviMorrison That's ambitious ^^
 
Yes, but it should hopefully be doable in 11 months.
 
Oh. Yeah. I don't much rate those chances, but again... not much harm holding a vote...
IIRC, a new vote can be held six months after a failure, which is still ample time for 7.4
 
The only BC break we need for generics that I am aware of so far is a new type mixed (or however else we want to spell it, such as ?any).
 
@LeviMorrison I'll pop some corn to watch Ze'ev lose his shit over the conflicts that'll cause on the jit branch. :D
@LeviMorrison That's not even BC, it's FC, which we've never shied away from much.
Well, BC if you have a Mixed class, I suppose
 
I thought mixed was in the list of reserved words.
 
4:05 PM
Ugh. Users.
 
I don't want to say so on list or anything, but generics is far, far more important than JIT native code generation, at least in the current state anyway.
 
@Trowski I don't believe it is, no.
 
@Trowski If it is it's a "soft" reservation, meaning no technical enforcement or notices.
 
@LeviMorrison I agree. I think we're a lot further than Ze'ev realizes from JIT being impactful on real world PHP code.
 
We have to inline functions/methods or JIT native code generation is not going to make a substantial difference.
 
4:06 PM
Meanwhile, TP and Generics have significant developer productivity impact.
 
@LeviMorrison isn't that a bit oranges and apples?
 
@pmmaga No.
 
@Sara I expect that Zeev fully realizes that as well, but JIT is such a nice marketing point.
 
It really is.
 
I don't see why anyone wants Dmitry's JIT.
 
4:07 PM
Everyone knows that JIT === super fast
 
It's a boatload of complexity for essentially no effect.
 
WebScale
 
We should actively avoid and reject such things.
 
@LeviMorrison I think it has potential, but yeah, the cost/benefit ratio right now is really bad
 
I would vote against any JIT which didn't deliver at least 25% on a real workload.
 
4:09 PM
Right now we have ~5 people who have the technical expertise to touch engine code
JIT would probably drop that to ~1.5
 
I've seen HHVM's JIT, and it's stared back into me.
 
lol hehehe
 
@NikiC 3, I'll give you and bob the benefit of doubt ^_^
 
I think we're probably higher than 5... maybe 10
 
@LeviMorrison I don't really know x86 assembly
 
4:09 PM
But half of those are inactive. :p
 
@NikiC I personally am not pushing for 7.3, but I know there are quite many people who would like to have it a year earlier than later and am persuaded it'll give people more time to use the features in order to see what's missing instead of getting a big batch of type features which may or may not be what people really need. \cc @Sara
 
@NikiC I have no reason to believe you can't and wouldn't, though.
In any case 3 is too small. This is a major issue.
 
@bwoebi Yeah, I'd like to give it to 'em sooner. I'd also like a Pony and a lollipop.
 
@NikiC I think the dasc file format from luajit is pretty easy to understand TBH. Writing code with it is another question though - I'll see that when working with it
 
@bwoebi I think there are some benefits to having it in 7.4, because we can combine it with other property related features
 
4:12 PM
 
@Sara exactly, I can't tell whether it's worth it
 
E.g. having property accessors would be the last step to make typed properties really useful
 
@bwoebi IME, generating IL code isn't the problem. Replicating PHP's bizarre quirks is.
 
@Sara Ah, it's a soft reserved word: php.net/manual/en/reserved.other-reserved-words.php
 
DIV %var, 0

Obviously, that should produce bool(false)
 
4:13 PM
@bwoebi Another thing I'm really concerned about is the extension changes that typed properties are going to require. It looks like at this points most exts are already 7.3 compatible, but after this pretty much every single one will need another round of changes.
 
@Sara the bizarre quirks only appear when comparing different types though - which would probably be still routed through zvals and normal c side handling. Fast paths is for verifiably matching types.
 
I've read quite a bit of x86_64 and have written assembly for the MSP 430. Reading and writing assembly are different beasts though.
 
@Sara btw, regarding your other thread on not rushing things...
I'm kind of wondering if that's approaching things the wrong way around
 
@NikiC just those using refs, I don't know their number though ; but it's a valid point
 
While looking at the internals list over the last year or so I seriously started wondering if PHP development was dying out
There was pretty much zero activity
Compared to other languages of this size, PHP has very few contributors (active or otherwise)
So if by some miracle (an approaching deadline often works miracle) we're suddenly seeing a flurry of activity, maybe we should be trying to leverage that spark of rebelliousness, rather than trying to stomp it out?
8
 
4:17 PM
I honestly think PHP needs a foundation to provide funding for our infrastructure and to pay RMs and system admins, pay people to clean up our bugs db, etc.
 
Perhaps it was related to the toxicity over there - I avoided replying there unless I really wanted to say something
 
I.e. instead of going in the direction of having more rules and harder deadlines, take it into account from the start that we should be flexible here if we're seeing movement
 
Not really consciously, but...
 
Of course, the current release date is really bad in that way, because you can't really shift it without running right into Christmas.
 
@LeviMorrison there are always these guys. not sure if it would fit or not but it could be a possibility
 
4:20 PM
Perhaps 7.4 should come early, like August giving much more flexibility to push things around if reasonable
 
There really ought to be more businesses that use PHP pouring funding back into the ecosystem they rely on. I suspect this hasn't happened partly because there is no easy avenue for it.
 
@LeviMorrison I think you're being unfair in the array_first/last thread
Your suggestion was discussed and not everyone agreed with it
 
Perhaps, but the claim he made was flatly untrue.
 
Maybe not discussed as thoroughly as you'd like, but it was clearly given some consideration
 
It requires pre or post processing, the very reason he rejected my design.
This is why I claim it wasn't really discussed. He made an (untrue) claim to refute it, and did not respond to the rebuttal. That is not discussion.
@NikiC Is that not fair?
Also, this RFC is sitting at 64%. It will probably pass in that stupid 50%+1 < 2/3 range that we really, really need to get rid of.
Also, I do appreciate you telling me this, even if I disagree. I will probably not respond further to it.
 
4:32 PM
@Levi I wish this feature won't make it into 7.3, then you have time to write a new RFC to supersede this one
 
@bwoebi That's going to cause a lot of drama
 
Yeah, not sure it's worth it for such a small surface area.
 
I regret not being part of that discussion from the start (array_key_first etc)
 
@LeviMorrison But maybe this is good motivation to finally write that "everything 2/3" voting amendment RFC?
 
It's the correct way to address that I think.
 
4:33 PM
Joe has one. It's been discussed. Just needs to be voted on...
 
Ah
 
Right
I think it got side tracked last time because people wanted to include other things in it?
 
@LeviMorrison it might be rude to bring it up for vote right now, we haven't discussed it in a year ...
 
that didin't stop class friendship :x
 
4:35 PM
I appreciate your concern. That did not stop other RFCs, though.
 
@JoeWatkins It would be good to provide a heads up
It's not like it would finish before that other RFC anyway
So not like there's a rush
 
At least revive the discussion?
 
yeah, I'll just post to internals and say I intend to bring it up for vote in the next few days if no major objections are raised ...
 
Although if you don't want to vote on it now I'd rather expand it to include quorum. I also don't think it's good for PHP to accept RFCs when fewer than X people voted in the affirmative. Don't know the right X value, maybe 2 dozen...
 
it's pretty unobjectionable now, I changed my mind on subsidiary votes, so we're just talking about the main vote in any rfc requiring super majority ..
 
4:37 PM
@NikiC I would apply it to everything since our last release.
Either we agree to its principles or we don't.
There is no reason it should not apply to accepted but unreleased features.
 
that was raised before, I'd really like to do that separately, and think we should make other changes before that ... this is a safeguard, other changes are more about making voting fair ...
 
I would be happy to permit a re-vote if necessary.
 
@JoeWatkins Agreed
This really should have been changed long ago. Combining it with other changes just drags it out
 
That's fair.
 
yeah
 
4:38 PM
maybe just making the 2 weeks period mandatory as well?
 
That's why I said "Although if you don't want to vote on it now I'd rather expand it to include quorum."
 
@LeviMorrison Hrm, I'm rather uncomfortable with applying decisions retroactively.
 
Others express this too, but I don't understand it. Do you believe the principle or not?
If yes then everything that hasn't been released ought to follow it. Again, I'd be happy to hold a re-vote to give them a chance.
Even still, getting it in is more important than retroactively applying it to 1 or 2 RFCs.
I would not fight it very hard.
 
Given the current demographic, you are probably voting for a full feature freeze of the language :-P
 
Either a re-vote or nothing retroactive, because the required majority might affect voting psychology.
 
4:46 PM
what rfc are you talking about retroactively applying rules to anyway ?
 
Would be strange to say that a previous RFC that passed.. jk no it didn't.
I think @LeviMorrison was talking about the array_key rfc
 
It's not yet retroactive, anyway. It is on course to pass in that zone, though.
 
I was just commenting from a generic perspective of applying a change in voting policy to RFC's that have passed but haven't been merged yet.
 
has everyone from r11 voted ?
 
4:48 PM
start pinging people .../
 
@DaveRandom array_* is getting fatter
 
@LeviMorrison It's mainly just the general sentiment against ex post facto laws.
 
it should not have been allowed to start, it is a language change, it's new code that we have to maintain, there's no difference between a new syntactical feature and a new function ...
 
@JoeWatkins we'll have to agree to disagree here. Language != library :P
except that some things you can't do in PHP without the library, because some bits of PHP are magic as fuck
 
you can disagree all you like ... it's a matter of fact that there is no difference between the new code of a syntactical feature, and the new code for a function, they result in exactly the same thing for us ...
 
4:51 PM
I agree with @JoeWatkins here. 50% majority for additions to the main array API is ridiculous.
Almost half of those that voted may have rejected it..
 
"they result in exactly the same thing for us ..." yes, but one is the language, the other is the project
oh well, back to fixing shitty code
 
that's why I mentioned the 2 weeks period. remove all mentions of "language change" so we won't have to have this discussion
 
that's not a distinction I see, I see code that we have to document, maintain, and care about the backward compatibility of regardless of it's adoption ... they should be treated the same because they are the same ...
 
@JoeWatkins ah, that's fine by me. I was more on the semantics => a function is just a bit implemented on top of the language. The fact that the maintenance burden is there is more than clear.
 
If it is added to a separate core bundled extension, later it can be sent to pecl when it's not needed anymore.
so the language looks alive
 
5:01 PM
@tereško In other worlds like Ruby, Python, Swift, Javascript and Android, to name but a few, a framework is often how people are introduced to a language. Everyone somehow survives and learns. Only in the PHP community are frameworks are seen as a bad thing. I'm always up for discussing this at length if you'd like as I believe this is an important concern, but doing it in the comments here isn't the best method. — tadman 25 secs ago
for fuck sake
is this guy mentally retarded or just ignorant
 
@NikiC I think one reason there is less activity is because it takes time to build up skills, PHP 7 is much more complicated to develop than any previous version of PHP. Add to that lots of the people who used to develop PHP also have a set of extensions that they might still be working on ... add to that the uncertainty about what the next version of PHP will look like
having been told for the last few years that there is no point in a JIT, and then a few weeks ago being told to ready the merge button ...
for me personally, I'm just tired of the process, I have to hand over to people with more stamina ... I doubt I'll attempt any big RFC's in future ... I'd rather focus on other things that I can actually move forward ...
I'll always help with code if I'm asked, but the process of trying to make any meaningful language change is totally exhausting, I just don't have the energy anymore to try ....
 
5:21 PM
just reading zeev pat himself on the back is exhausting
unless you're discussing your progress with your therapist, saying "I guess I have much higher levels of self control" means you don't
 
yeah
Zeev seems to be under the delusion that the reason why phpng went into PHP 7 was his incredible self control
While in reality it was the sweeping internal API changes that required a pretty much full rewrite of most extensions
 
5:49 PM
example code font, too small – #76612
Printing DOMNode shows fake "(object value omitted)" strings – #76611
 
@derickr @SaraMG @nikita_ppv Because this is a SUBSTANTIAL feature awaited by a community for many years. Beta has been delayed already, so "delay or not" is no longer relevant. There are another 4+ months between beta 1 and GA to stabilize the features and I can assure you community will test it eagerly. 👌
 
@Jeeves I'm sorry but what's the problem?
 
@JoeWatkins I disagree that PHP 7 is harder to work on, it just was quite a shift from 5 to 7
it made things quite a bit simpler to not have to count the degree of indirection every time
 
@bwoebi it is definitely harder, since things like pointer offsets are used all over the place. So memory layout isn't obvious
yes, multiple levels of indirection do add complexity (so removing them is good), but I think that's exadurated compared to the complex data structures
 
6:05 PM
Depends on what you mean by work with
Writing an extension against PHP 7 should be quite a bit simpler than PHP 5
Writing an engine change might be harder
 
Wes
well that escalated quickly
 
definitely agree there
the ZPP changes definitely made that process a LOAD easier
@JoeWatkins that's where I was 2 years ago. Happy to have stepped back, though do miss parts of it at times
 
Wes
meet evan twitter.com/thomasfuchs/status/1017088738046902274 (click to zoom the img)
 
@ircmaxell not so much in extension dev and it's mostly hidden behind macros
 
@bwoebi I was referring to engine dev, since that was the context for the discussion...
 
Wes
6:34 PM
@Danack what's the punishment in your monarchy for missing a goal like that
 
Now that we've had experience with the feature I wonder how many people who voted on scalar type constraints would uphold their vote, whether yes or no.
That was one of our largest voter turn outs and it passed very narrowly: 108 - 48.
 
6:52 PM
@ircmaxell for engine dev, yeah, I agree, some code paths in engine got much more complex, especially if you want to change things and there are now some attributes in zval.u2 or such - it's more global state to keep in mind vs. just local bit more complicated APIs … and opcache support is always, well sigh.
 
@NikiC @bwoebi With fibers, we probably have to make some things re-entrant-safe in core, no?
 
@kelunik not really, everything which can call _zend_bailout() must be already re-entrant-safe
 
good morning
 
@bwoebi Would it be safe to use await in __destruct?
 
@kelunik yes
 
6:55 PM
evenin
 
oh well. not sure if that's the new result of the last abysmally bad se blog post, but the questions page is a wasteland. (like, much worse than normally)
nobody downvotes anymore, lest you see raging hordes pick on everyone on meta. fuck this.
 
posted on July 11, 2018

New Cyanide and Happiness Comic

 
I wish DateTimeImmutable::createFromMutable took a DateTimeInterface parameter instead of DateTime ...
 
@kelunik just like it's safe to store the $this somewhere else during __destruct().
 
@bwoebi yeah, sure
 
7:02 PM
I've installed GD extension on my server, but it still throws:
 PHP Fatal error:  Uncaught Error: Call to undefined function imageantialias() in /
Any idea ?
 
make sure the versions match with php and that it's included in php.ini
 
hmm .. wait
 
@bwoebi yeah. Still wish opcache was in core... That it's still an extension is a bit of a pita.
 
7:05 PM
@PaulCrovella what it means? Should I install php 7.2 ?
Or how can I make the php bundle with GD library?
Noted that I use PHP Version 7.0.30-1
 
that's so 2015
 
Is it possible to upgrade php on the ubutu 16.04 ?
You know, I installed it using apt-get
And before installing I updated it
 
I'm pretty sure php packages are available in major linux distributions. Please google for the specifics.
 
@bwoebi aka only theoretically ^^
we still have that nasty gc bug
 
7:15 PM
Odd .. The command php -v returns:
PHP 7.2.7-1+ubuntu16.04.1+deb.sury.org+1 (cli)
But phpinfo(); returns:
PHP Version 7.0.30-1+ubuntu16.04.1+deb.sury.org+1
What's wrong really?
 
There's nothing wrong per se. You have two versions installed, one of which is used by whatever server you are using, the other one being present on your path.
you might want to read these posts superuser.com/questions/969861/…
 
ah I see .. I thought it is not possible to have two version of php on the same server
 
and like, did reality not change your idea on that? ;)
 
:-) it did
 
@NikiC Which one? Can't remember right now
@ircmaxell well, Ze'ev did promise that … again for PHP 8 …
 
7:24 PM
Whether we get JIT native code generation for 8 or not we really need to prioritize that.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I did it using: sudo a2dismod php5.6 ; sudo a2enmod php7.0 ; sudo service apache2 restart
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I have like 8 versions of Python installed simultaneously, FYI.
2-3 PHP versions.
 
Just set the paths up correctly and all is well.
 
phpbrew ftw
 
7:26 PM
I have like, 728436 versions of node
as for php, I'm somewhat in the bottom of the wave as far as (paid) projects go, I really go with latest with all my new never to be finished projects
my hope is to deliver amphp servers behind docker images next time I have something serious to build
 
@bwoebi So, what's our plan for typed properties now?
 
well, so far nobody has voiced opposition to putting them in 7.2 :D
 
@NikiC I guess targeting 7.4
 
Wasn't typed properties the reason for alpha 4?
 
^ This was my impression as well.
 
7:33 PM
no, 4 alphas were planned anyway
 
@bwoebi externals.io/message/102762 Maybe he meant a 5th alpha?
 
@Trowski I guess
well then
@NikiC well, if we anyway have that alpha we may just as well do typed props now
 
@NikiC I would've decided against it if it weren't officially an additional two weeks, but as it looks now…
 
@bwoebi okay
In that case we need those perf numbers :)
@bwoebi There is still one open TODO in the RFC text about class aliasing
 
8:00 PM
@NikiC That's what I'm doing right now :-)
@NikiC good point - dunno.
Bobs-MacBook-Pro-2:php-src-7.2 bob$ ./sapi/cli/php -r 'class A {} class_alias("A", "B"); class x { function a(A $a) {} } class y extends x { function a(B $a) {} } '

Warning: Declaration of y::a(B $a) should be compatible with x::a(A $a) in Command line code on line 1
Bobs-MacBook-Pro-2:php-src-7.2 bob$ ./sapi/cli/php -r 'class A {} class_alias("A", "B"); if(1) {class x { function a(A $a) {} } class y extends x { function a(B $a) {} } }'
It's anyway weird behavior with early binding
it's triggering the autoloader there, right?
yeah it does
@NikiC Should mirror the behavior of methods
I know that there's the opcache issue, however I think that's really an opcache problem
 
"I don't want people to talk about politics here except me, so I'll bring it up" - pmj
 
8:22 PM
@bwoebi yeah
that's what the rfc says, so just needs to be implemented
 
yep
fixing merge conflicts right now
@NikiC our branch is like 3,5% slower on a simple for ($i = 0; $i < 1e9; $i++) … somehow.
 
8:46 PM
@bwoebi hm...
Maybe VM code size increase?
 
So, England’s coming home?
 
@bwoebi might be due to ref check in increment opcode
Looks like it's implemented somewhat inefficiently right now by checking for IS_REFERENCE first and then having an independent check on ref
That should be in the same branch
 
@NikiC dunno, it still has the fast path first
 
9:06 PM
ah, I see what you mean, yes
 
9:34 PM
@PaulCrovella "In any case, are we turning this list into a political forum?" - The guy that only commented on the political intro
 
9:53 PM
@bwoebi So, 5.6, 7, and now again 8?
 
@ircmaxell apparently, yes...
 
10:14 PM
how is yaml pronounced? yeah-mel?
 
Yeah-mel is how I've always heard it.
 
10:30 PM
@Tiffany Like camel.
So yes :-D
 
@Danack Croatia made them brexit
 
Anyone here like to do puzzles on codingame.com? I'd like to see your results and share mine too.
Still trying to figure out how to directly share that sort of thing, seems possible if we're "friends".
What I do is solve the easy puzzles elegantly in many different languages ^_^
It has come up again because I need to find more practice problems for my beginning C++ students. It's hard to learn parallelism when you don't understand the core language you are parallelizing in.
 
10:55 PM
@Tiffany as a farting noise with a sour face
 
11:10 PM
^ This is my new preferred pronunciation of yaml.
 
11:22 PM
@Wes 4 more years of hurt.
 
00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

« first day (2825 days earlier)      last day (2136 days later) »