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01:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

1:14 AM
@Fabor with you? sure, let me clean my teeth
 
chat seems to truncate letters from an account name when the browser reaches a certain width. @DaveRandom is DaveRando
you're just some rando now
 
already was
 
2:10 AM
I am having issues calling the mbstrings function on php7 I installed on windows.
I am just doing php -S localhost:80 currently but it throws errors when calling those funcitosn.
XMAPP doesn't like my W7 install and gave up after a while.
 
2:43 AM
mornin
 
figured it out
 
 
2 hours later…
5:01 AM
1am and I'm changing the oil in our vehicle. My neighbors must think I'm crazy.
 
rofl
 
Wes
class friendship is so bad
 
You two are such nightowls. @Wes is... a vampire maybe? I think he sleeps like 30 minutes every 24 hours or something. =D
 
Wes
:|
 
probably going to bed after this episode
and then dink on my phone for another two hours... probably
 
5:11 AM
🦇
 
Wes
:B
 
Does that show up on PC?
 
yeah but can't tell what it is
 
Wes
i sleep a lot, i don't know why you have this idea
 
It's a bat
 
Wes
5:12 AM
there are days where i sleep less
 
LOL- you always seem to be online.
 
Wes
i have dentist in 1 hour so today i didn't sleep much
LAST DAY
then no dentist for months \o/
 
@StatikStasis He is .. He reminds me of a police :-P
 
Our dentists are closed on weekend unless there is an emergency.
@Tiffany what are you watching?
 
5:16 AM
Battlestar Galactica
 
You know... I have never watched that. Not even a part of an episode.
 
friend of mine went on about how it was so good and better than Doctor Who
I put it on my "to watchlist at some point," and I wasn't sure what to watch next
 
I might have to check it out. I've been watching Grand Designs. I need to find the other episodes. Netflix only had 4 seasons.
 
Amazon has all four seasons
 
I'm talking about 4 seasons of Grand Designs.
 
5:18 AM
I know
I'm talking about BSG, lol
 
LOL
Sorry.
 
no worries
 
I have Prime- I'll make sure to watch it.
 
I've had moments where I questioned wtf is going on
there are times it feels too preachy
 
Wes
@Tiffany bleh just watch star trek tng
@StatikStasis same but dentist has planned vacation and needs to finish important stuff before that
 
5:20 AM
Ah- that makes sense.
I've actually been watching tng again
Lots of Nostalgia from when I was a kid.
 
Wes
battlestar doesn't make sense
 
Dwight likes it.
Along with beats and bears.
 
Wes
whos that
 
I tend to read wikis on shows when something confuses me or I want to learn more about something, but it tends to spoil stuff... but it also helps me decide if I want to continue watching a show to see how something unfolds
 
Wes
ah the guy from the office
try asking me
but i probably don't remember
 
5:22 AM
shrug, I've read most of what I wanted to
anyway, bed time
or at least, lay in bed
 
Wes
story is a bit forced
imho they tried to stretch it. so they added weird stuff
then the ending is rushed... go figure
 
Phone is about to die. Night guys.
 
Wes
anyway, night
 
Wow, I started watching it tonight around 6 or 7 pm and it's past midnight
Talk about hyperfocus
 
Wes
5:26 AM
lol, i could never focus that much on battlestar
 
Like the last third of season two
Shit's intense
 
Wes
what's the main event? i don't remember
but i liked the soundtrack
the drums you hear when they go to battle :D
 
Presidential election, Gaius forces the fleet to colonize on New Caprica
Boomer and Caprica Six lead a resistance in the cylons and abandon the colonies
 
Wes
ah that's season 2 already?
 
Then a year later, after the Galactica and Pegasus have only a skeleton crew, cylons come to New Caprica and try to integrate
Yup
Then in the start of season three, Starbuck is basically in a forced-not-forced farm
Suicide bombs
And supposedly Zarek and Roslin are executed
 
Wes
5:33 AM
i don't remember much
 
Zarek asks Roslin if she tried fixing the election and she said yes, Zarek says he wishes she did, and she agrees
 
Wes
ah zarek is the former criminal
 
Yeah
 
Wes
need to watch star trek enterprise too though :P
that's a lovely series
i think i'll watch it again too actually
 
I dunno, I may watch Star Trek at some point. My dad was obsessed with it and it's like one of the rebellious things I've done is swore off watching it
 
Wes
5:35 AM
ahahahahahahha
 
Same with an anime that's critically acclaimed, one of my exes loved it, and even started dating me thinking I would be like the female main character, but surprise, I wasn't
 
Wes
that's not very rebellious :D
the original series is probably hard to watch these days... that's probably what your dad likes?
 
And I pretty much refuse to ever watch it. I don't care if the reason is silly. At one time in our relationship, he cared more about the DVDs than me :| so I have disdain for it (my ex)
No, I think it was tng
Picard right?
 
Wes
yes picard is in tng
tng is weird in the first episodes, but not as weird as the original series
 
I like Starbuck in BSG, one of the reasons I keep watching it. She's a reminder that not all women are feminine, and there's not enough of that in shows, in my opinion.
I haven't worn a dress since prom, over ten years ago, and I don't really care to ever again.
Strong chance I probably won't even wear one on my wedding
She's masculine and I like that, I can self-identify
 
Wes
5:49 AM
yeah it's a great character. in fact could be one of the few things that kept me watching
also roslin is not stereotypical feminine
she is bad ass too
 
Yeah
 
Wes
in star trek there are plenty of women like that though. especially voyager is very feminist. the captain of the starship is a woman
 
I'm sad Billy was killed :( I liked his character
It's not just a strong female leader though, there's a quite a bit of that in shows
It's a strong, tomboyish female character
 
Wes
i see what you mean
she is ellen ripley bad ass
i think she was inspired by that
i never noticed it until now
 
There are tons of women in leader positions, but then would rather wear a dress, given the chance, or are just generally feminine in their mannerisms. It's not a bad thing, mind you, but so many female characters are written like that
 
Wes
5:55 AM
how about ripley? or sarah connor?
 
@bwoebi What's the name of that async websocket library you were working on again? I can't seem to find it on your github.
 
There are plenty of women that are like that, too. It's not a bad thing if a girl or a boy chooses dolls over test tubes, it's their choice.
I'd need to watch those movies. I probably couldn't watch Alien though...at least alone
 
Wes
as in, too scary?
 
Yeah, lol
 
@Sherif amphp?
 
Wes
5:57 AM
it's not the kind of jumpy scary though... it's more psychological scary... didn't do me much as a kid
 
@Gordon Is that it?
For the life of me I couldn't remember its name
 
My mind tends to take stuff too literally and I start to imagine stuff is real, particularly from shows with horror elements, so I avoid if I'm alone.
 
Wes
what was scary for me as a kid, was agent murphy's body getting mutilated in robocop 1
 
@Gordon Thanks
 
5:59 AM
Yeah, that would do it for me too
 
Wes
nightmares that followed that lasted quite a lot of years :P
 
Put it this way, I'm already mentally unstable, I don't need help :D
 
Wes
lol
but imho alien is not terribly dangerous... maybe a couple of scenes
 
But even psychological horror is enough to fuck with me if I don't have something to ground me
 
Wes
it's just too bad not watching masterpieces like that... it's great movies and not because they have scary scenes in them
 
6:02 AM
Because my head starts to dig into what-ifs, and tries to explore all these different avenues of why and how and what, and I usually end up tormenting myself with it
Yeah, I know
 
Wes
:D
 
I'll probably watch it when I'm living with my boyfriend
 
Wes
yeah i am not the most sane person either... i am very obsessive about stuff too
i know how that works :P
try to watch them if you can... it's great movies
 
It's should be they're*
 
Wes
right :P thanks
 
6:05 AM
Sorry
 
Wes
did you watch terminator? 1 and 2
anyway, dentist time for me
lata
 
I haven't, more movies I need to watch eventually
Those would probably be fine for me
 
 
1 hour later…
7:28 AM
guys, are long method names acceptable in coding? Some thing like this: invoiced_and_not_registered_in_warehouse_commodities()
It works .. just I want to know is it known a common thing?
 
7:59 AM
@Shafizadeh yes, but PSR would use camelCase instead of snake_case
 
ah I see, ok thx
 
plantigrade walking on the whole sole of the foot, as humans, and bears.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:16 AM
Morngins
 
hello
 
I'm under a layer 7 DDOS attack. I noticed that botnets are sending POST requests with input in an incorrect order. For instance, instead of sending form request in the order "username, password, token, captcha". The order is "token, password, username, captcha".
is it safe to assume that clients who use the incorrect order are malicious so I could block them?
or is it a very bad idea :)
Put differently, does php guarantee the order of $_POST ?
 
No
Also it's not php you need to wonder about, but rather user agents
 
They are all IE 7, Safari, Mozilla
mostly old user agents
 
Afaik the spec doesn't say anything about it
I tried to find the relevant parts of the spec, but while doing it I realized I cannot really be arsed :P
 
11:32 AM
After using the order of post $_POST to block. I was able to block about 2000 IP addresses which is crazy. I checked the log for a couple of these randomly and they were all doing repeated attempts on login. So it seems effective for now, but I'm not sure if I'm blocking good users.
 
Imo it shows a lack of proper throttling if blocking ips is useful for you
Have a captcha kick in of you are under attack?
 
I have a captcha but it still slows down the servers with unwanted (validation) requests. So i'm blocking IPs at "edge of the network" using Google's API.
The login is also throttled.
 
Yes, but what I meant is that when you have a captcha you could make decisions to block based on that instead
 
Oh you mean If the captcha is invalid for multiple attempts, I block the IP? Yeah, that's probably a better solution.
 
Yeah exactly
The sequence of fields might be fixed, but you would have to make sure it really is in all user agents
 
11:40 AM
I have never seen such a huge attack. I mean what the hell did I do lol. The IP addresses seem to be from everywhere. Mostly Spain and Brazil.
 
Morgen paulus o/
 
yay, it's supposed to be cooler today... only 108
 
What is that in proper units?
 
11:43 AM
42
Nice
:)
 
I looked at the thermometer yesterday and it was almost full
4
 
:D
 
 
2 hours later…
1:32 PM
@Gordon as I get older, the more I dislike camelCase.
 
Wes
1:56 PM
me too
i'm not sure why php decided to follow java, since php itself used snake case in the first place
snake case is way more readable
 
Hi guys, Does anyone can tell me the basic structure of database tables for a messenger with groups and P2P conversations?! I don't know anything about messengers.
 
2:35 PM
Good morning
 
2:57 PM
@Wes I prefer snake case too. It's weird seeing snake case array keys, model attributes and functions, but camel case class methods and variable names.
 
3:20 PM
HI all
do anyone knows How to call application/libraries file functions in hooks in CodeIgniter?
 
@Wes I'm partial to kebab-case, personally, but JavaScript hates it, so I end up using snake_case. cc @Danack
@PaulCrovella it's cooled down some here, hasn't got as hot as it is near you, but pretty close. It kept hovering around 35C, down to 23C today. 35C is 90 something F, 23C is mid 70s
 
4:26 PM
if you create a folder named test.html in your root directory with a file located at test.html/index.php php fails to display in unless you include index.php for some reason
actually no file extension works interestingly
@someone IE 7 wow that most be an ancient botnet :P
 
@William that's up to your server and rewrite rules, not php itself
 
ahh now I see what you are responding to
I am not using a server
just
php -S localhost:80
that was my point is that the built in server doesn't really make a sane default in my opinion
 
ahh, I see. it's still a server, but indeed it's up to php to deal with that then
 
probably faster this way though
You should not use it as a server in production though so I wouldn't call it a server really but you are welcome to if you want
 
well, it serves requests :P
 
4:33 PM
> a computer or computer program that manages access to a centralized resource or service in a network.
 
it's a web server
 
Yeah not really a network
 
even if it's a network of one
 
no it is not it is local only
 
yeah, just realized
was thinking production web server
 
4:34 PM
@William that depends on listening to localhost:80 or 0.0.0.0:80
 
if you read the guides nobody anywhere would advise exposing this to an actual network though
 
I'm not saying you should. But "not advised to production" doesn't make it anything else than a server
 
non production server then
 
also known as a development server
or test server, or staging
 
Hi all
Can someone please clear me the statement fro the PHP Manual?
 
Wes
4:40 PM
@mega6382 i clicked this twice
 
Note:

Accessing variables of other types (not including arrays or objects implementing the appropriate interfaces) using [] or {} silently returns NULL.
URL for the above statement is : secure.php.net/manual/en/…
 
Wes
@user2839497 means that
$a = 123.45;

$a[2397823973] is null
$a[23] is null
$a[0][1][2][3][4][5] is null
 
What does mean by objects implementing appropriate interfaces?
 
4:43 PM
!!docs ArrayAccess
 
Wes
appropriate interfaces = arrayaccess
 
[ The ArrayAccess interface ] Interface to provide accessing objects as arrays.
 
@user2839497 object would have to extend ArrayAccess or ArrayObject
 
ArrayObject just implements ArrayAccess
 
and arrays extend nothing
conveniently
 
4:44 PM
arrays are not objects
 
o/
 
never said they were
 
both are iterable though
 
language design is hard
retroactive language design is way easier, maybe we should just work on a time machine instead
 
time machine would only create a diverging universe with better languages wouldn't affect our situation though
 
4:48 PM
yeh but I would get to live in the divergence I created if I was the one who went back, and screw you guys
 
that is true
 
lol
 
a timeline where PHP6 exists :D
 
:O
 
PHP666
 
4:48 PM
the possibilities
 
Some how I think someone would destroy php if there was a time machine though
 
introduce JSON earlier
 
nahh I would introduce JASON to confuse everyone
 
it's funny when my coworkers pronounce it, they aren't sure how most of the time, and stumble around the words
somewhat surprising when we have genymdhms everywhere
 
My programmer friend is named Jason. I have joked sometimes saying hey "Jason look at this JSON"
or "Jason's json sucks"
 
4:53 PM
my best friend's name is Jacyn, but it's pronounced Jason
people will call him "Jackin" because they aren't sure
 
anyone know of a way other then having tons of folders to use any other extension then the .php extension for a local server hosted like php -S localhost:80
 
@Tiffany at least it's not Zhakeen
 
nesting index.php under folders is annoying
I'm thinking of throwing a node.js front end in front of it
to simply rewrite the urls because I don't want to install apache
 
you can rewrite URLs with php's built-in server
 
really?
 
4:57 PM
most applications use a front controller and rewrite the URLs in PHP using something like fastroute
but depends on what you're doing
 
link what do I search for
 
php -S localhost:80 router.php every request will go through router.php
 
@William I have set it up in this example: github.com/teresko/blank
 
wow that is way easier then I would have guessed
 
if I install PHP on the bare metal, should I use thread-safe or non-thread-safe?
I also need to get chocolatey...
 
5:03 PM
use thread safe
bare metal is irrelevant to that tbh
 
it's the "better to have it and not need it" case
 
alright
 
but also, just use whatever the distro provides
there's no reason to build it yourself unless you are modifying php-src
 
so how do you feel after the first week at platform.sh, @DaveRandom?
or wait... is it the second week?
I've already lost track of days T_T
 
5:21 PM
@DaveRandom why would you use Ubuntu in your example?
 
@tereško debian uses apt
 
fuck debian
 
I like debian
 
Debian packages are a pain to build
 
5:45 PM
@Tiffany This was first week. He started on 2nd.
@Tiffany I always wonder if the parents were just wanting to be creative when I see stuff like that.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:31 PM
No way to get error messages with clickable link. – #76593
 
7:41 PM
@Jeeves ....lol....
no one reads errors...
just assume it's a bug
 
7:57 PM
you just have become spoiled in this chat room - for an average developer those error messages are a profound mystery
 
8:24 PM
@Jeeves Oh wow.Somebody is actually doing that
 
@tereško first time I encountered that error, I was confused, then I actually processed the meaning of the error and realized "oh, echo doesn't handle arrays... wat..." and then used var_dump or something.
When I needed to echo out data from an array, I used a loop
Shrug, maybe I am spoiled.
 
Is there a way to get this to work such that serialization looks like an array?
$x = new x([1,2,3]);
var_dump($x)
> { [0]=> int(1) [1]=> int(3) [2]=> int(3) }
closest I got has been
{["0"]=> int(1), ["1"]=> int(1), ["2"]=> int(1) }
 
ThW
@William that is not exactly serialization but a debug output, not a good idea to try to use it for another purpose.
 
the debug input is just to make the example simpler.
my intent it subclass an array well as close as I can anyways.
 
8:45 PM
sounds like you are attempting open heart surgery with a plastic fork ... good luck
 
@William if you want PHP to behave like a different language, you would probably be better by using that other language, rather than trying to make PHP behave like it.
 
this sounds like a "kind" way of saying no
 
9:18 PM
so next best idea is to store a chain up a chain to that is called on the object
x()->split(....)->join(....)->x([1,2,3]);
 
I have no idea what problem you're actually trying to solve.
 
chaining functions for arrays/strings
they aren't object
 
26 mins ago, by Danack
@William if you want PHP to behave like a different language, you would probably be better by using that other language, rather than trying to make PHP behave like it.
 
you can't effectively subclass them
the above syntax will work although awkward
 
because they're not objects in PHP.
 
9:21 PM
well you can effictively subclass functions despite them not being objects
with __invoke
 
@William he asked what problem you're trying to solve, not what problem you're trying to create
 
chaining function calls for arrays and strings
 
why are you creating that problem
 
because I hate nesting function
calls
also make my own more consistent libarry
familiarity to and have nothing better to do right now
I think it isn't worth it but at las fun to mess with it
 
most things are better to do right now
 
9:26 PM
like what?
 
doing your laundry, punching yourself in the nuts, really almost anything
 
@William why are you using php if you'd prefer another languages rules?
 
node.js has gotten boring currently
php is still well used with wp clients so I use it
so I can't not deal with it
what mb string functions are pointless?
meaning they work the same as the regular non mb functions?
 
9:43 PM
I thought that they were built to work with multi byte encoded strings, contrarily to the simple string functions.
 
some like replace work the same I believe
 
I think internals tend to despise mbstring chat.stackoverflow.com/search?q=mbstring&room=11
 
o/
I'm not quite sure what zend.assertions values mean php.net/manual/en/function.assert.php. If there aren't any assert() calls in code, does that mean that setting it to -1 will have no effect, or are there other, lower level things that happen?
> -1: do not generate code (production mode)
I take it this means opcode?
pickles
 
10:05 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier yes. So, if you don't use assert there should be no difference.
 
Wes
 
all squares should obviously be selected
 
10:36 PM
is there a way to detect if a router is being used in php?
gave up on subclassing arrays and strings oh well no biggy.
I believe this is called a router?
php -S localhost:80 router.php
I was just planning to define a variable but was hoping I could make the router.php the same file as index.php
 
unless I'm misinterpreting, which I seem to be doing a lot of today, you should know if a router is being used, because you would programmatically generate the routes a request should take
 
@Tiffany let me rephrase. If I make index.php the router(some frameworks actually do this) how do I detect when the router/index.php is properly configured vs it isn't.
Obviously it would only work on the main page
 
I'm parroting what I've read, so I may be incorrect in some parts. Your index.php should be the front controller, and would only include your bootstrap file, which is where the routing is defined. As for testing it, I think Patrick's tutorial has a way to test.
if you read through github.com/PatrickLouys/no-framework-tutorial/blob/master/… and github.com/PatrickLouys/no-framework-tutorial/blob/master/…, it should give you some insight. You probably won't be able to use his examples literally in your project, but it should hopefully give you some ideas of the way to go
 
10:51 PM
you don't understand my question
but I appreciate the help. My question is unorthodox.
 
try reading the two links I posted in the second message
near the bottom, it shows you how to test if your router is working properly
 
what line number?
I am interested to see what you think will solve my issue
 
it's a markdown file, no line numbers
it's a tutorial
 
@William your question is poorly stated
 
it is poorly state I agree
 
10:57 PM
I guess something new to learn... never seen yaml used for configuration
 
@Tiffany stop_go_no_further.jpg
 
my question does have an answer though
 
codebase at work, the config file is a php file, but also serves as a front controller and bootstrap...
@Danack am I in for a headache?
 
@Ocramius, Frankfurt, Germany
Consultant for @RoaveTeam, #doctrine2 team, #zendframework team. I'm a tad blunt, but I mean no harm. Making unpopular decisions, so you don't have to.
42.5k tweets, 9.6k followers, following 1.5k users
 
10:59 PM
lol
what should I use for config files instead?
 
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